S.Malik Intro

[CHR]

Hi S. Malik -

I'm sorry not to have participated in this thread sooner, but there was a flower holiday the last few days that kept me pretty busy.

First, let me say it was a true honor to have been featured in an article at SEL. SEL is really is one of my 'must reads' of the day.

I've spent the last few years trying to get my head around search as it pertains to local florists. We here work to help each other be found better in search engines, and advise each other about the pluses and minuses of online marketing opportunities.

Your choice of Flora200.com as a marketing partner is telling. The company really knows SEO and follows the ups of downs of Google algo changes quite well. They've guestbook spammed, blog comment spammed, bought links - and all the other SE gaming an affiliate marketer has to do when they have no unique product content.

What I know, from seeing their orders first hand from the florist side, is that they are thieves. They sell consumers products for $XX.00 (or more) and help themselves to a chunk of the money before passing it to their US relay organization who passes orders on to us. Floral2000.com will still earn 20% on that amount, plus a kickback from the wire service, but apparently that's not enough.

The last order sold by them that landed in our shop was skimmed of more than 15% of its value before it hit here.

It's ongoing practices like this that make local florists like me loathe so many of the marketers claiming to 'help us'. They've proven to want to help themselves first, and hope buyers don't see what they purchase - or that florists are too busy or stupid to figure out who sold their orders.

The SEL article made mention that I see FlowerChat as a place for like-minded florists. That still stands. I don't believe FC is the place for you but I do wish you well in your future online marketing efforts, whatever the products may be.

 

[LJVF]

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

- Sun Tzu

 

[S.Malik]

There is no reason for anyone to buy flowers from someone who does not sell flowers...Let me ask you this, Do you know what flowers are available at any time of the year? Do you know what the funeral traditions are for different faiths and different parts of the country? Are you aware that some green plants are harder to get than others? Are you even aware that some varieties of roses or cut flowers need to be ordered ahead of time?

These are just some of the reasons that services like yours are a detriment to our industry. Soem of these evry issues took me a full 5 or 6 years of just working in flowers shops to learn. Services like yours just set customers up for dissapointment in what should be a wonderful trasaction. From not getting the correct information for timely deliveries to ordering flowers that are not available where and when your customer needs them are just a few os the possble problems. It is better left up to professionals in the field to get the orders where they need to go. Therein lies the difference to your company and real florists...So in essence even though many of us have international sending abilities equal we are not...
Thanks for appling but no thanks...

@lori: Since I do not know any of these things, thats one reason we could actually benefit each other. I dont intend to post my website with flowers that are not available or any other false committments. If you think, you can help me in this, it will be a much better and healthier way to improve your industry. And you can make this difference. While if you do not, it just reveals that you just want to argue and argue rather than take some serious steps of improvisation. The torch is in your hands buddies and you have to cast light on the path the world shall take.

 

[S.Malik]

@ CHR & All of You:
I really could not understand this when you bring about the features of Flora2000.com in light and assess and try to judge ME on the same lines. I have been repeatedly saying that I am trying to devise out a way where WE CAN MUTUALLY SURVIVE. And not trying to come with ways that have already been there. I want to bring out something which is NEW and makes both of us happy. While I did not know your problems, I need you to do that. But if you think that you are self sufficient in whatever you are doing, then may be you could check out McDonald's (the fast food chain) story. Either you guys dont want to grow up or you just dont want to share what you got. I read somewhere that "happiness multiply on sharing and sorrows divide". I dont really understand now.

CHR, why do you think there are all kinds of Top SEOs/SEMs coming in to Matt Cutts blog and sharing all sorts of things. Dont they know anything about SEO or are they learning? Well I doubt. Its all about finding out new ways to solve problems. Otherwise I think the problem persists and will ultimately eat you up from within till the time you quit. And that time is gonna be a very tough one. Before anyone starts dictating you HIS terms, you have to be the lead for others.

I mean everyone here wants an expansion of the business. And someone of you said that I will be competing with your website only - so how does it matter as long as the order comes to you only. In any case, you are in business. Thats the beauty of it.

Once again, I dont intend to push it further but I am always open to suggestions.
Yes Victoria, I have been sleeping as it was night in my part of the planet and I am actually a sound sleeper

Thanks all of you for replying and being a part of this thread. Your replies and responses are my prize to be in this community. If someone really has some related ideas, you can send me messages in private.

Thanks once again.

 

[avenuegardensflorist]

we demand a recount and/or re-vote: whatever it takes

.....I would prefer NOT to 'cast my light'
up your path Mr OG.

My torch is lit to make my customers happy with a beautiful
product at fair value with no sneaky business.


Deception is evil. Your kind make us all lose.


Thanks Cathy for the heads up!

 

[S.Malik]

War is like a big machine that no one really knows how to run and when it gets out of control it ends up destroying the things you thought you were fighting for, and a lot of other things you kinda forgot you had.

 

[avenuegardensflorist]

War is like a big machine that no one really knows how to run and when it gets out of control it ends up destroying the things you thought you were fighting for, and a lot of other things you kinda forgot you had.

WAR, who in this thread said anything about WAR?


Dude, I think you are missing the point of being a member of flowerchat! You can be all philisophical and Gandhi-like but the bottom line is you want to send your worker bees(us) an order for $100 and take 35% off the top.

So we satisfy your customer with $100 of product and lose money when you get the $35+ fees for thinking you are doing us a favor?


...get real dude. Time to re-vote and close this thread down.:treadonme


War? ....on second thought maybe we should declare War on these scavengers.

 

[S.Malik]

WAR, who in this thread said anything about WAR?


Dude, I think you are missing the point of being a member of flowerchat! You can be all philisophical and Ghandi-like but the botton line is you want to send your worker bees(us) an order for $100 and take 35% off the top.

So we satisfy your customer with $100 of product and lose money when you get the $35+ fees for thinking you are doing us a favor?


...get real dude. Time to re-vote and close this thread down.:treadonme


War? ....on second thought maybe we should declare War on these scavengers.

@ Avenue Garden florist: "War" was used as a metaphor in case you took it literally.
The correct spelling is "Gandhi" and not "Ghandi" (this is a bad word in Hindi Language).
I never said I would take 35% or $35. Please go back to previous posts.
I am not helping you. Neither you could help me. We both would be helping each other.

 

[Carrington]

@ CHR & All of You:
I really could not understand this when you bring about the features of Flora2000.com in light and assess and try to judge ME on the same lines. I have been repeatedly saying that I am trying to devise out a way where WE CAN MUTUALLY SURVIVE.

Mr Malik .... any connection with Flora 2000 will work against you and to me was a warning sign that I took on board. However I understood that it was a relatively new association and perhaps not permanent. If that is not the case then I too would need to seriously consider my position (still no vote cast) as Flora 2000 has a dreadful reputation for skimming and as such is a complete no-no to me.

[quote Either you guys dont want to grow up or you just dont want to share what you got. I read somewhere that "happiness multiply on sharing and sorrows divide". I dont really understand now.quote]

An unnecessary, completely out of order and misplaced criticism you would do well to re-consider. In my 30 years experience of this industry it is the very fact that florists have so willingly shared is what has allowed them to be taken advantage of. By supporting/working with/for wire services/OG's?doG's they have enabled many to make a lot of money but not shared the gain, only experienced the pain.

I am aware that you have been given a hard time here and I don't condone some of the comments but in this post you showed your inexperience and lack of knowledge which let you down.

 

[Victoria]

I can't help but wonder why you don't be screaming about 800TFTD employees being members here?
[/URL]

I voted no.

V

 

[S.Malik]

@ CHR & All of You:
I really could not understand this when you bring about the features of Flora2000.com in light and assess and try to judge ME on the same lines. I have been repeatedly saying that I am trying to devise out a way where WE CAN MUTUALLY SURVIVE.

Mr Malik .... any connection with Flora 2000 will work against you and to me was a warning sign that I took on board. However I understood that it was a relatively new association and perhaps not permanent. If that is not the case then I too would need to seriously consider my position (still no vote cast) as Flora 2000 has a dreadful reputation for skimming and as such is a complete no-no to me.

[quote Either you guys dont want to grow up or you just dont want to share what you got. I read somewhere that "happiness multiply on sharing and sorrows divide". I dont really understand now.quote]

An unnecessary, completely out of order and misplaced criticism you would do well to re-consider. In my 30 years experience of this industry it is the very fact that florists have so willingly shared is what has allowed them to be taken advantage of. By supporting/working with/for wire services/OG's?doG's they have enabled many to make a lot of money but not shared the gain, only experienced the pain.

I am aware that you have been given a hard time here and I don't condone some of the comments but in this post you showed your inexperience and lack of knowledge which let you down.

Ok. I reconsider this. May be its me who has to grow.
I never meant any offence to anyone (personal or industry).
My lack of knowledge may be something that brought me here but i am taking a lot of things from here. Thanks for this.

May be I did not enter here with the right approach.
But yes, once you get rid of this problem you are facing, I would like to know.
With this, I end this thread never to come back again. This should be relieving.

Thanks & all the best.

 

[bloomz]

Sad - should have just said he was a home based business.

oh well

 

[RJD]

I really could not understand this when you bring about the features of Flora2000.com in light and assess and try to judge ME on the same lines.

Because in business, as in life, you are judged by the company you keep.

I have been repeatedly saying that I am trying to devise out a way where WE CAN MUTUALLY SURVIVE.

This sounds way too much like a few e-mails I received this morning about a long-lost dead relative with a large bank account.

And not trying to come with ways that have already been there. I want to bring out something which is NEW and makes both of us happy.

Yes, you are. It's been done before, and is being done now. It's not a business practice we like.

While I did not know your problems, I need you to do that. But if you think that you are self sufficient in whatever you are doing, then may be you could check out McDonald's (the fast food chain) story.

I know A LOT about McDonald's. Please explain what you mean here.

Either you guys dont want to grow up or you just dont want to share what you got. I read somewhere that "happiness multiply on sharing and sorrows divide". I dont really understand now.

This is insulting.

CHR, why do you think there are all kinds of Top SEOs/SEMs coming in to Matt Cutts blog and sharing all sorts of things. Dont they know anything about SEO or are they learning? Well I doubt. Its all about finding out new ways to solve problems. Otherwise I think the problem persists and will ultimately eat you up from within till the time you quit. And that time is gonna be a very tough one. Before anyone starts dictating you HIS terms, you have to be the lead for others.

A lot of people read Matt Cutts, but not all are welcome in the SEO world, either. There's little tolerance for for those who want to "game" the system, or take short cuts, or do a sloppy job and give a black eye to the industry.

People have spent their entire lives to build the knowledge they have in every aspect of flower care and design as well as customer service. If you think listening in on a few forum threads is going to make you expert enough to handle my orders, you are sadly mistaken.

I mean everyone here wants an expansion of the business. And someone of you said that I will be competing with your website only - so how does it matter as long as the order comes to you only. In any case, you are in business. Thats the beauty of it.

Because I am responsible for filling the order and ultimate customer satisfaction, but I did not take the order. Because the website which took the order added on a large service fee without providing any value to the customer.

Once again, I dont intend to push it further but I am always open to suggestions.

We're all open to suggestions, but that doesn't mean we're going to write your business plan for you. I think you've greatly underestimated the knowledge and skill of the people here.

 

[lori042499]

@lori: Since I do not know any of these things, thats one reason we could actually benefit each other. I dont intend to post my website with flowers that are not available or any other false committments. If you think, you can help me in this, it will be a much better and healthier way to improve your industry. And you can make this difference. While if you do not, it just reveals that you just want to argue and argue rather than take some serious steps of improvisation. The torch is in your hands buddies and you have to cast light on the path the world shall take.

With the many of thousands of florists with websites out there. I still see no reason for anyone to pay someone else a fee to find a florist for them. All they need to do is open their eyes and look beyond the computer screen. Flowers are a luxury that people do want to spend money on, however they want full value of those orders. The minute someone like yourself is involved it takes away some of that very money that should be filled with flowers. I do provide my customers with the service of sending flowers worldwide, but they pay me because they know me and trust my company and my policies and my garauntee. So many times unbeknownst to the customer someone like yourself lets the customer think they are handling the order from start to finish and the customer is dissapointed why there is a problem and noone to turn to. When they deal with a real florist that they know this does not happen. We are here in the flesh to talk with and deal with. Online companies can easily dissappear when they do not want to deal with the problems that arise with orders. I am not saying you will but history has shown that this is a very popular way to do business as a broker "always available to make the sale, seldom available to assist in problems".

I do not wish to help you in your endeavor. My suggestion would be to work in a flower shop for minimum wage for the next five years and earn your stripes as we all have. Find the knowledge that you need to run your online business and see the small profit margins florists have to deal with and you may then just understand where we are coming from and why we just do not need another hand in our pockets.

 

[Connie]

Sad - should have just said he was a home based business.

oh well

lollollollollollollollollollol

 

[Carrington]

I'm glad he didn't

Sad - should have just said he was a home based business.

oh well

While I can't condone his last post and won't take back my comments, I still believe we shouldn't just reject someone out of hand without at least trying to see if there is a benefit that works both ways.

Like you Bloomz I seriously worry about home workers who, to me, are just as harmful as OG's et al. Above all this thread has shown inconsistencies in the approval system and that concerns me.

JMO

 

[Victoria]

Many home based businesses have been rejected, a few have not. All members have the opportunity to voice an opinion and cast a vote... and this is the first thread that I'm aware of where so many voices have been heard.

Please let's learn from this and remember to cast our votes... all count.

V

 

[theRKF]

Many home based businesses have been rejected, a few have not. All members have the opportunity to voice an opinion and cast a vote... and this is the first thread that I'm aware of where so many voices have been heard.

Please let's learn from this and remember to cast our votes... all count.

V

So true.

If more members had been active at the start of this thread, perhaps we would have had a different outcome.

At the same time, I was disturbed by how frequently Malik was mis-quoted and misunderstood.

Ryan

 

[theRKF]

Above all this thread has shown inconsistencies in the approval system and that concerns me.

JMO

So, you're telling me you want consistency and predictability from creative, artistic and emotive people?

Ryan

 

[CHR]

If more members had been active at the start of this thread, perhaps we would have had a different outcome.

We had a large increase in new member applicants over Mother's Day weekend - and there was scant time for many of us to to read, post or even sleep.

At the same time, I was disturbed by how frequently Malik was mis-quoted and misunderstood.

That's a very fair point. He came here saying he wished to learn what real florists are like - and at least he didn't start link dropping just to increase his inbounds, as some others have done.

And guess what? WE locals DO need stronger affiliate relationships and could greatly benefit from experienced online marketers helping sell our own flowers at prices fair to both them and us. There are only a couple small systems in place right now and building them out will take time, a lot of resources and active participation.

There's definitely a 'burn out' factor when it comes to marketers approaching local florists as partners. Remember Who Sent Flowers, with his 'new model' that turned out to be reselling calls from his phony local florist phone listings?

I've probably looked at several thousand sites similar to Mr. Malik's over the years and suppose if the content (which is all we can really assess ATM) was something unique and forward-thinking, the response to this thread might have been different.

Just as members have expressed disinterest in educating hobbyist florists, it makes sense that there's little or no will to offer the same to non-floral industry businesses, especially if they come here tied in with shady affiliate marketers.