SAF members

[elmo]

You've got a good point. They're not a florist and IMO don't belong in the directory as a 'florist'.

Did you call SAF about it?

Same 'ol ball game... different batter.:SUI:

 

[HeatherTuckey]

Society of American FLORISTS

IMO of course....

A quote from SAF's website:
SAF is the only national trade association that represents all segments of the U.S. floral industry. Our 15,000 members are the industry's top retailers, growers, wholesalers, importers, manufacturers, suppliers, educators, students and allied organizations. SAF is the face and voice of a strong, unified floral industry.

I think the name Society of American retailers, growers, wholesalers, importers, manufacturers, suppliers, educators, students and allied organizations is a bit cumbersome. Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

Define florists, Define OG? Many OG's have a brick and mortar flower shop. It may be 5% of their gross annual sales, but they are a florist. I ask this to all of you. If you have the power to make these decisions at SAF (who to allow and not allow), how would you define a florist, an OG, and how would you prohibit OG's and why?

If you check in their florist directory they show the OG in Miami... that's where I have the problem. I understand that they cover all sections of the floral industry but to consider an OG a florist and list them as such on their site is pretty rotten.

Also listed under RETAILERS. IMO they are a retailer:
From You Flowers, LLC Company Address:
Contact: Michael Chapin Street: PO Box 805 City/State/Zip: Old Saybrook, Connecticut 06475

Phone: 860-388-0909 Fax: 860-388-1135

You've got a good point. They're not a florist and IMO don't belong in the directory as a 'florist'.

Did you call SAF about it?

And what did SAF say? My guess is that they would say something like what I would say... They are a retailer that sells flowers, plants and gifts. A retail florist with a primary focus on online and phone retail sales.

 

[CHR]

Heather -

Here's where we disagree. Neither FU nor Best are florists. They are Brokers only, never touching a flower - ever.

Supermarket chains (Kroger, Safeway, etc...), who sell a heck of a lot of flowers, are not a part of SAF, neither is Home Depot (who sells lots of flowers) or ProFlowers (who also sells a few flowers.)

The industry should have insisted brokers NOT be called florists long ago. Travel agents cannot call themselves hotels, airlines or tour operators because they are agents/brokers, not direct providers of services. What they do is clear to consumers.

Can't say the same about FU or Best.

BTW, it appears neither contribute to the marketing fund or else their company sites would be linked from their listings.

 

[bloomz]

Spot on Heather.

Lotsa lines in the sand over who is an OG.

I think every florist with a phone gathers orders. Some say you can't take orders out of your local delivery area, some say you can.

Some will think I shouldn't be allowed.

I don't really care what anyone's definition is, and obviously neither does SAF.

I like Groucho who said he wouldn't join a club who would have hm as a member.

I was told once I couldn't join IFA because I was an order gatherer - florist status be dammed.

Broke my heart. I've never recovered from that rejection.

By the way I was at the SAF convention about 12 years ago when the vote was taken to change the name to the American Society of Floriculture.

I voted no.

But if you sell floral products I guess you're somehow a florist - I'm sure there are some parallels somewhere.

You can call them a floral retailer I guess if that floats your boat but yer milking mice.

We are SAF members by the way and we do contribute to the promo fund.

Dang order gatherers anyway.....:dunno:


opinions vary...:headbang:

 

[HeatherTuckey]

From either perspective, either from an administrative SAF perspective OR from and SAF member perspective, why is an OG (or broker) being a part of SAF a bad thing??? I for one would love to be part of a workshop on wire service sending and filling, and how we can each make a profit and make both the customer and the recipient happy with their purchase and/ or gift. Now do these large order gatherers take an ACTIVE part in SAF, or would they take part in a workshop such as this... probably not... but me I prefer to "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer".

The OG's aren't going anywhere... so why not have them take part in industry events and organizations and voice your opinions.
Now if they are joining just for the ability to advertise the SAF logo.... I don't agree, but they should still be permitted to join, based on the criteria of an SAF member and the payment on their dues, based on their sales volume.

I would prefer that they also contribute to the PR fund, but as far as I know none of the big OG's do. Most florists don't either. $.10 per outgoing wire order is an easy contribution. I urge you all to contribute.

http://www.safnow.org/content/category/7/67/116

 

[sandytf]

From what I can see the SAF membership is comprised of:

Retailers
Growers
Associations
Suppliers
Wholesalers/Importers
SAF PR Fund Retailers/Annual Contributers

An order gatherer would be considered a retailer.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again-until someone comes up with something better.....

There are associations for designers, for commentaters, for wholesalers, etc. If anyone out there wants to start an association for retail florists who inventory and sell flowers, I'm sure they are welcome to do it.

 

[Doug Munro]

Where does the future of our industry lie.......

I am curious.....

One of the issues that I believe that our industry has faced going back as far as I can remember is that it is disjointed. Lets face it, the "retail florist" industry is for the most part comprised of independent "mom and pop" businesses. This does not exactly allow for a lot of educational opportunities or national marketing to promote our product.

So how do we get the message out to the consumer to buy more flowers?

How do we educate florists so that we can develop a standard for the consumer?

In the past a good chunk of education and advertising fell to the wire services. Unfortunately many wires services have either fallen by the wayside or have been merged. Those that are still in existence are seeing their memberships diminishing. This has led to reduced advertising and education on their part.

So what does that leave, probably organizations like SAF. Unfortunately SAF needs to raise funds to educate and advertise.

I can't imagine that the average retail florist relishes the idea of being the exclusive source of those funds. So SAF needs to look elsewhere.

I have no problem with large volume retailers of flowers (order gatherers, grocery stores, etc.) being part of SAF. Better with us than against us.

The one thing I might suggest is a name change to better reflect today's realities, maybe some like
"Society of the American Flower Industry " (SAFI)

 

[CHR]

Ya' know, if I hadn't been the victim - twice - of black hat reviews by FU's affiliates, perhaps I wouldn't be so adamant about companies like them positioning themselves as 'florists'.

You can read the details here. (BTW, AOL has never removed the one review to this day.)

None of these companies cares whether brick & mortar florists make it. Should they fail, they'll just market something else. They have the systems, the call center staffs and the SEO capabilities to be anything they want, since they stock nothing.

I know, I know. It's just business... but there used to be codes of professional conduct that trade associations would stand up for.

By Any Means Necessary was not acceptable - and it still shouldn't be.

 

[Chezbloom]

Keep your enemies closer? Judging by the dOG's in Google, I'm surrounded by them already. SAF, BBB and my local Chamber of Commerce are not what they once were. I'll spend my money on donuts.

 

[BOSS]

Define florists, Define OG?

I'll make it simple for you, a florist actually touches FLOWERS! An OG does NOT!

Pay to the SAF PR fund? No thank you... Taxation withOUT representation!

Some of you kidZ, Bloomz included do not even know what things were like back in the day, and you never will because the game has morphed into something that does not even resemble what it once was. It used to be that you would send and receive, and often equally and make money going both ways.

Many of you seem willing to work for pennies on the dollar filling orders (yes they are marginally profitable) that have had the majority of profit removed by a third party, and even more amazing you're willing to defend the practice and even those DECEPTIVE busineses that are a burden not only on the industry, but on consumers alike.

There are no more orders in the system today than there were 10-15 years ago (according to some industry "experts") so that means the orders (along with the dollars) have simply been taken away from a traditional florist and moved into another segment of the industry (OG, WS) where the profit is removed not only from the order, but from the industry.

But that's OK you say...we're still in business! Yep, me too, and I will be for a long time, but the difference in my case is I do not accept OG orders, on principle alone and my NET has never been better!

But whatever... none of you are listening to that sucking sound... just an FYI it's the sound of cash being STOLEN, from consumers and florists alike by the very companies you are defending.

 

[Tom Carlson]

The word FLORIST needs to be defined first.

I rejoined SAF a couple years ago after a long non-member status because they would not address issues related directly to the retail florist, namely Charities directly selling flowers.

This thread has 2 faces
1. About SAF
2. About Wire Services

If there was no advertising by the wire services for Mother's Day, what kind of a M-day season do you think would have?

If there comes a day when the W.S. meet their demise, who will advertise?

Tom Carlson

 

[sandytf]

I'll make it simple for you, a florist actually touches FLOWERS! An OG does NOT!

Pay to the SAF PR fund? No thank you... Taxation withOUT representation!

Some of you kidZ, Bloomz included do not even know what things were like back in the day, and you never will because the game has morphed into something that does not even resemble what it once was. It used to be that you would send and receive, and often equally and make money going both ways.

Many of you seem willing to work for pennies on the dollar filling orders (yes they are marginally profitable) that have had the majority of profit removed by a third party, and even more amazing you're willing to defend the practice and even those DECEPTIVE busineses that are a burden not only on the industry, but on consumers alike.

There are no more orders in the system today than there were 10-15 years ago (according to some industry "experts") so that means the orders (along with the dollars) have simply been taken away from a traditional florist and moved into another segment of the industry (OG, WS) where the profit is removed not only from the order, but from the industry.

But that's OK you say...we're still in business! Yep, me too, and I will be for a long time, but the difference in my case is I do not accept OG orders, on principle alone and my NET has never been better!

But whatever... none of you are listening to that sucking sound... just an FYI it's the sound of cash being STOLEN, from consumers and florists alike by the very companies you are defending.

I don't know how you got to "defend the practice and even those deceptive businesses that are not only a burden on the industry but on consumers alike" from the opionion that SAF can consider an OG a retailer. That's a stretch.

 

[BOSS]

I don't know how you got to "defend the practice and even those deceptive businesses that are not only a burden on the industry but on consumers alike" from the opionion that SAF can consider an OG a retailer. That's a stretch.

By not directly dealing with deceptive marketing they are condoning it.

Not much of a stretch in my book.

If there was no advertising by the wire services for Mother's Day, what kind of a M-day season do you think would have?

About the same as I'm going to have anyway.

 

[marie g bushnell]

I was looking up something in the yellow pages dir. book and saw a couple of listings for "BestFlowers in Richboro" and others listed similar but added the local town name with BestFlowers. They are everywhere including PA.

Marie

 

[CHR]

If it's a local number, most likely it's Best Flowers from Waukesha WI - a notorious dOG. Different company than the one in Florida.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Same 'ol ball game... different batter.:SUI:

Still gotta have balls as though!!

 

[Golferdude]

The word FLORIST needs to be defined first.



Webster said florist : One who raises or sells flowers
I guess OG are florist by definition

So we have to use Your local florist

Just thinking......Golferdude

 

[Chezbloom]

Any business that is Sending Only is NOT a florist. Seems simple to me.

 

[Doug Munro]

I'll make it simple for you, a florist actually touches FLOWERS! An OG does NOT!

Pay to the SAF PR fund? No thank you... Taxation withOUT representation!

Some of you kidZ, Bloomz included do not even know what things were like back in the day, and you never will because the game has morphed into something that does not even resemble what it once was. It used to be that you would send and receive, and often equally and make money going both ways.

Many of you seem willing to work for pennies on the dollar filling orders (yes they are marginally profitable) that have had the majority of profit removed by a third party, and even more amazing you're willing to defend the practice and even those DECEPTIVE busineses that are a burden not only on the industry, but on consumers alike.

There are no more orders in the system today than there were 10-15 years ago (according to some industry "experts") so that means the orders (along with the dollars) have simply been taken away from a traditional florist and moved into another segment of the industry (OG, WS) where the profit is removed not only from the order, but from the industry.

But that's OK you say...we're still in business! Yep, me too, and I will be for a long time, but the difference in my case is I do not accept OG orders, on principle alone and my NET has never been better!

But whatever... none of you are listening to that sucking sound... just an FYI it's the sound of cash being STOLEN, from consumers and florists alike by the very companies you are defending.

Jeez Boss, tell us all about the "good ol' days" was beer really 10 cents a glass. and gas 25 cents a gallon?

The fact is that OG's as they are referred to on this board are a fact of life in today's floral business world. Our company operates a number of websites designed to generate orders for our stores. However, I note that we have in fact been placed in one of the OG lists on this forum despite the fact that we have 60 retail locations..... go figure?

The reality is that all sectors of business have been transformed to some degree in the last decade by the internet, ours is just one of them. Our business sector like every other one has a choice, adapt to the changes or fall by the wayside in time. The world is not going to wait around while we debate it! The one fact we all have to face in business is that ultimately the consumers makes the decisions that determine the fate of our business.

I am beginning to wonder if some of the individuals on this board would have rallied against the telephone when it was introduced, probably would have suggested it had been invented by competitors or call centers to steal their walk in trade.

On a last note, I never have nor will I ever defend deceptive business practices. Having said that I do congratulate the companies that have realized the potential the internet provides and have had the foresight to take advantage of it honestly.

 

[BOSS]

Doug, if you have followed my posting, you know my stance is directed toward ANY company that does not touch flowers. I have many friends that are shop owners, that also have legit (they list their local address) OG operations that I have no problem with.

It's the others, the ones that claim to be a "Midland Florist" that have nothing more than a phone bank and computers that I have a problem with. They are the ones that are mucking up the works.

And yes, I do remember 25 cent gas, and I think beer was a nickle...