Save big $$$$$$$

[Joe Mioux]

Joe,

It's quite simple, locate the florist in the town you are sending the order to, give them a call, look at their website ( you can instantly see if it's a W/S promoted site or a true customized website --hello Ryan ???) and determine if they are a quality florist.

Even with the directory, many florists STILL want to pick up the phone and make that call to determine the quality on the other end of the line. OG don't hire flower savvy people so right away you'll figure it out.

As far fixing a problem, a lot of times the W/D leaves the complaining florist out to dry. Problems are fixed by starting out with the right filling florist and making that phone call. Otherwise, go to FSN and let them handle the order. The 20/80 split with no monthly fees is better then the high ridiculous fees being charged by the W/S these days. How's that Reciprocity Fee feel these days ?????

Years ago the W/S made sense, but with the internet, and their relaxed rules for signing up new members ( Basement Betty) it's all changed. And florists need to return to "owning" how their business is handled.

but you don't get rebates...... doesn't that count for something?

and if you manage the WS business correctly it doesn't cost, but pays.

joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe, A sending florist is not an order gatherer if they are sending as a courtesy to their customer. All w/s members use the phrase, "we can wire your order around the corner or around the world," ...or some such verbage. That is part of your agreement to belong to a w/s. Order gatherers actively pursue obtaining orders from outside their immediate area, only to turn around and send them out.

Bold text: i don't understand this logic.

I receive order from customers from all over the country and they use my business for their outgoing business. That doesn't make me an OG.

what makes people like you an OG is that you do not belong to any network of florists where other florists can find you. In other words, you send, but probably receive very little due to your not being listed in a directory.

also. How do you know that the florist filling your orders will actually fill at 100pct?

do they fill at 80pct? you have no way of knowing AND there are no rules or guidelines.

joe

 

[sfox]

but you don't get rebates...... doesn't that count for something?

and if you manage the WS business correctly it doesn't cost, but pays.

joe

Only for a select few Joe does a wire service pay.

If you are a larger sending shop, it pays.

If you are small town shop that does not have a large sending volume, then you lose. But you could win, because in most small towns those florists are the only game in town, so belonging to a wire service is not necessary.

If you are in a large recieving area, like Florida, you lose because you would most likely get those orders anyway with a good website without all those dues and fees associated with a wire service.

And wire services themselves have worked out the numbers and those....rebates....well, they are the candy that is used to attract florists, but the accountants know that the wire services with all those dues and fees are really the big winner.

 

[spentflowers]

but you don't get rebates...... doesn't that count for something?

and if you manage the WS business correctly it doesn't cost, but pays.

joe

Joe, Do the math!! Rebates are rarely more then $3 but the cost you are charged to receive that order needs to be deducted so in the end, even if you make $1 you lose it on the other side with the excessive W/S fees.

And, if you don't keep up your sending volume to offset the number of incoming orders received you are penalized further with low sending and reciprocity fees. They get you coming and going. Add to that the warehousing of containers, the useless directory ads (which hopefully you chose not to buy) Quality Prog. Fees (which are being questioned now that they allow florists working out of their homes to sign up) and it rarely pays you.

But if you are successful in getting a paycheck from them, figure out how much more you would have received if you didn't have to pay those monthly fixed costs! I don't know, call me silly, I'd rather be less busy making more profits then crazy busy filling W/S orders where my bottom line is always in jeopardy.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe, Do the math!! Rebates are rarely more then $3 but the cost you are charged to receive that order needs to be deducted so in the end, even if you make $1 you lose it on the other side with the excessive W/S fees.

And, if you don't keep up your sending volume to offset the number of incoming orders received you are penalized further with low sending and reciprocity fees. They get you coming and going. Add to that the warehousing of containers, the useless directory ads (which hopefully you chose not to buy) Quality Prog. Fees (which are being questioned now that they allow florists working out of their homes to sign up) and it rarely pays you.

But if you are successful in getting a paycheck from them, figure out how much more you would have received if you didn't have to pay those monthly fixed costs! I don't know, call me silly, I'd rather be less busy making more profits then crazy busy filling W/S orders where my bottom line is always in jeopardy.

thanks for the laugh.

you haven't read many of my previous posts have you?

 

[Joe Mioux]

Only for a select few Joe does a wire service pay.

If you are a larger sending shop, it pays.

If you are small town shop that does not have a large sending volume, then you lose. But you could win, because in most small towns those florists are the only game in town, so belonging to a wire service is not necessary.

If you are in a large recieving area, like Florida, you lose because you would most likely get those orders anyway with a good website without all those dues and fees associated with a wire service.

And wire services themselves have worked out the numbers and those....rebates....well, they are the candy that is used to attract florists, but the accountants know that the wire services with all those dues and fees are really the big winner.

and fox, you have read my posts before.

there is a break even point where filling too many (in some instances) and not filling or sending enough is unprofitable.

we have been over that stuff.

I know I can make money as do many other less vocal FC'rs know as well.

I am not saying it is right for you or anyone else, but you better do the correct math compuations to determine your own business' break even point and as God is my witness I have never read anyone do a break even analysis on their own WS business.

and i am not talking about the simplistic math, where you take your incoming order subtract out the commissions, subtract the Dover/Merc fee subtract out COGS and labor and call that true profitabilty analysis.

You can't just look at one or two orders and then determine that WS revenue is wrong for a particular business.


joe

 

[Dior]

Bold text: i don't understand this logic.

I receive order from customers from all over the country and they use my business for their outgoing business. That doesn't make me an OG.

what makes people like you an OG is that you do not belong to any network of florists where other florists can find you. In other words, you send, but probably receive very little due to your not being listed in a directory.

also. How do you know that the florist filling your orders will actually fill at 100pct?

do they fill at 80pct? you have no way of knowing AND there are no rules or guidelines.

joe

Joe, first of all, I am NOT an OG, I'm not even a florist! Secondly, I guess we have to agree to disagree, because I don't understand your logic either. Maybe we just don't understand each other???

All I'm saying is that if you are in a w/s, your obligations are to both send orders out of town to another member for your local customers, and receive orders.

I'll ask you the same question: How do you know the florist in the w/s at the other end fills your order at 100%? Do they fill it at 80%?

If you are in one of the Big 3 w/s, you get incoming orders that pay you 73%, 71% or 70% , right out of the starting gate, that you are expected to fill at 100% Now, start minusing out all of the fees and dues and listing charges, etc. etc. etc. and the low send fee and reciprocity fees that your w/s charges if you are not sending, and see what the profit is ends up as. Sure, you still might get a check from the w/s, but that doesn't necessarily mean you made money.

I sincerely hope you did. I'm not on a witch hunt, I'm on the florist's side.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe, first of all, I am NOT an OG, I'm not even a florist! Secondly, I guess we have to agree to disagree, because I don't understand your logic either. Maybe we just don't understand each other???

All I'm saying is that if you are in a w/s, your obligations are to both send orders out of town to another member for your local customers, and receive orders.

I'll ask you the same question: How do you know the florist in the w/s at the other end fills your order at 100%? Do they fill it at 80%?

If you are in one of the Big 3 w/s, you get incoming orders that pay you 73%, 71% or 70% , right out of the starting gate, that you are expected to fill at 100% Now, start minusing out all of the fees and dues and listing charges, etc. etc. etc. and the low send fee and reciprocity fees that your w/s charges if you are not sending, and see what the profit is ends up as. Sure, you still might get a check from the w/s, but that doesn't necessarily mean you made money.

I sincerely hope you did. I'm not on a witch hunt, I'm on the florist's side.

First, membership fees are negotiable, low sending and reciprocity fees are for people foolish enough to allow the WS to assess them to your account.

I don't pay low sending penalties.

I don't pay over $100 for monthly membership fees.

On one particular, I pay under $90 per month and that includes the electronic transfer device (i.e. merc).

The rebate for the other ws that I am a member of, pays the membership fees, I send a few more than I receive, and that offsets 7 pct commission fee.

Outgoing commissions offsets the incoming 20 pct commission that I give up.

do you or spentflowers see any flaws in this strategy?

now, to answer your 80 pct filling question..... I don't have anyway of knowing if the filling shop is filling at 80 pct or 100 pct and I don't care. If the customer complains and I can not solve this problem with the filling florist, then I call membership services and they arbitrate the problem, hoepefully in favor of the customer.

You can't do that with F2F problems.

every non WS florist (i will include IFA, FSN and similar other groups with a florist directory) who sends orders but doesn't receive orders is a micro OG. I don't care if you disagree. The net effect is the same.

Those shops are taking orders away from WS affiliated shops and are causing the same type of harm as the Og's.

joe

 

[Dior]

First, membership fees are negotiable, low sending and reciprocity fees are for people foolish enough to allow the WS to assess them to your account.

I don't pay low sending penalties.

I don't pay over $100 for monthly membership fees.

On one particular, I pay under $90 per month and that includes the electronic transfer device (i.e. merc).

The rebate for the other ws that I am a member of, pays the membership fees, I send a few more than I receive, and that offsets 7 pct commission fee.

Outgoing commissions offsets the incoming 20 pct commission that I give up.

do you or spentflowers see any flaws in this strategy?

now, to answer your 80 pct filling question..... I don't have anyway of knowing if the filling shop is filling at 80 pct or 100 pct and I don't care. If the customer complains and I can not solve this problem with the filling florist, then I call membership services and they arbitrate the problem, hoepefully in favor of the customer.

You can't do that with F2F problems.

every non WS florist (i will include IFA, FSN and similar other groups with a florist directory) who sends orders but doesn't receive orders is a micro OG. I don't care if you disagree. The net effect is the same.

Those shops are taking orders away from WS affiliated shops and are causing the same type of harm as the Og's.

joe

Well, it does my heart good to see that you have negotiated those terms with your wire services. I wish more florists were in the same boat as you in that regard. I don't think they are "foolish", many just aren't aware that they can change the way things are being done with their w/s.

Best wishes for a good spring season!

 

[BOSS]

are you calling all order gatherers unethical? even the og's who are members of this forum?

btw: I really prefer the way Mark is approaching outgoing orders vs retail shops just dropping WS membership and doing the F2F thing.

it seems your way is more ethical and honest and value packed for the customer.

joe

No sir, there' are some that list their physical address on their pages. Randy and Jon for instance. They disclose they are not in the delivery city.

In this case I feel it's the stupid CONsumers fault....

And thank you sir on the last part!

 

[Joe Mioux]

what's with all that "sir" stuff.....

joe

p.s. and I really did mean that about how you are approaching out of town orders.

 

[Chezbloom]

We tell our customers to try locateaflowershop.com or to google and we tell them why. We tell them the truth, they usually are happy that we do. Sometimes I will look up a few florists or try FC for a customer. Maybe I'm stupid but I don't want to deal with customers complaining to me that the florist in Springfield messed up their order and I need to refund them or something. I dunno, its just that we get SO FEW requests for Wire outs and its such a pain in the butt to try and find someone to fill an order for under $65 that I don't want to bother with it anymore. Cop out? Maybe. Care? Not really

 

[Joe Mioux]

We tell our customers to try locateaflowershop.com or to google and we tell them why. We tell them the truth, they usually are happy that we do. Sometimes I will look up a few florists or try FC for a customer. Maybe I'm stupid but I don't want to deal with customers complaining to me that the florist in Springfield messed up their order and I need to refund them or something. I dunno, its just that we get SO FEW requests for Wire outs and its such a pain in the butt to try and find someone to fill an order for under $65 that I don't want to bother with it anymore. Cop out? Maybe. Care? Not really

Chez, I think your referral is a good approach and I hope your customers appreciate your sentiment.

If florists go WS-free, they should let their customers fend for themselves and not try to capitalize (read profit like OG's do) on these outgoing sales.

Now that is not to say that a certain customer won't want your (plural form of you) shop to handle their outgoing business.


There is nothing wrong with that. What I find offensive is that once a shop drops the WS affiliation they just go ahead a expect a 20 pct commission, knowing full well that they won't have to reciprocate.

That is much worse than just being an OG.

WS free shops should charge a transfer/service fee, but never expect or request that the filling florist fill their order for 80 cents on every dollar.

that is unethical.

joe

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Joe,

I disagree with you.

Who are you to say just because a florist is wire free, they should play by the rules you set up? If a florist doesn't want incoming wire orders they have the privilege of not accepting them. There are plenty of other shops out there dying to get them.

And there is nothing wrong with asking for a 20% commission. The receiving florist can give it or not. It's not for you to decide what two businesses can agree upon.

I actually offer a service where I wire out flowers for florists who choose to be wire service free. I give them a 20% commission and send it off for them. This way if they don't want to be burdened by incoming wire orders or membership fees they can still send and get their commission.

I think it's just smart business!
RC

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe,

I disagree with you.

Who are you to say just because a florist is wire free, they should play by the rules you set up? If a florist doesn't want incoming wire orders they have the privilege of not accepting them. There are plenty of other shops out there dying to get them.

And there is nothing wrong with asking for a 20% commission. The receiving florist can give it or not. It's not for you to decide what two businesses can agree upon.

I actually offer a service where I wire out flowers for florists who chose to be wire service free. I give them a 20% commission and send it off for them. This way if they don't want to be burdened by incoming wire orders or membership fees they can still send and get their commission.

I think it's just smart business!
RC

you are full of gas.

you do it for the rebates!

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

I'm full of Gas am I?

Joe,
You are so rigid in your thinking that you may be unable to change. That's fine if the world doesn't change as well. But, I'm afraid whether you like it or not the world is changing all around us at an alarmingly fast pace.

And Yes, I give the florist a 20% commission, wire the flowers out for them, and I work off the rebate.

I hope you don't think I'm getting rich by doing this,

RC

 

[Joe Mioux]

Randy,

i heard a great quote today.

it went something like this.

"Greatness isn't intimidated by sharing your knowledge with others in order to help them succeed."

I like that quote and I think that represents my sentiments here at FC.

I am always willing to hear the other side and will change when those making the suggestions prove their points.

I think you make good points about unique products and developing those types of market, but then again i think sometimes your full of gas with some of your WS commentary.

joe

btw: i prefer to substitute "Success" for the word "Greatness"