As you say Jim the wire services are a major part of the problem in more ways than one, as they are major order gathers.That part of their business , they are not going to give up, as they clear 27% of these orders and try hard to make it one of their "brand name " containers that you can only buy from them, which increases the profitability of each order they send. I don't subscribe to the "brand name" containers from either service and don't take any , .com orders from either , so if they can get those orders delivered in my area , they have to come from St. John's and the shops charge $15.00 plus to deliver here. Stand up to the theory that as long as you don't lose on an order its worth having, it ain't .
Simonsaysroses.com
- Thread starter Rock
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Boss , sorry to here that the funeral homes in your area are having a tough time , our dilema here is that a lot of funerals now look for donations , which really cuts into business, its great to get the family piece , but if there's no follow up , it hurts. As of now cremations here are not that popular , but are on the rise.
Paul , your insight is astounding , I concur 100%, we have met the enemy and they are us. As long as we go hand in hand done this road with the wire services blindfolded we can't see the edge of the cliff, it will be too late when we all go over the edge.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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Isn't THIS interesting, Jim, Paul and SUNNY,
for FIVE LONG YEARS, I've been squawking about the ruinous path the WS's had been leading us INCLUDING AFS, and Redbook...and NOBODY seemed to want to pay attention and NOW, you seem to understand that WE are the culprits for letting this happen, and WE are the ONLY ones that can fix it!!
At NO TIME, was the INTENT of wire transfer business, to make money on incoming orders BECAUSE, you SENT orders on behalf of YOUR clients, and RECIEVED orders form other shop's clients...it WAS a way to BUILD demand for our product.
Do you REALLY THINK that introducing REBATES,and 20% fill commissions, was a quirk??
WE FILL THE ORDERS...WE CAN ALSO DENY FILLING SUCH ORDERS from order stealers, and WE CAN put an end to this crazy business crippling spiral, BUT, ONLY when WE, the informed, lead the pack, and let the other shops put themselves out of business, and it's happening FASTER NOW, than ANY TIME in the past!!
for FIVE LONG YEARS, I've been squawking about the ruinous path the WS's had been leading us INCLUDING AFS, and Redbook...and NOBODY seemed to want to pay attention and NOW, you seem to understand that WE are the culprits for letting this happen, and WE are the ONLY ones that can fix it!!
At NO TIME, was the INTENT of wire transfer business, to make money on incoming orders BECAUSE, you SENT orders on behalf of YOUR clients, and RECIEVED orders form other shop's clients...it WAS a way to BUILD demand for our product.
Do you REALLY THINK that introducing REBATES,and 20% fill commissions, was a quirk??
WE FILL THE ORDERS...WE CAN ALSO DENY FILLING SUCH ORDERS from order stealers, and WE CAN put an end to this crazy business crippling spiral, BUT, ONLY when WE, the informed, lead the pack, and let the other shops put themselves out of business, and it's happening FASTER NOW, than ANY TIME in the past!!
So exactly which orders should we refuse?
Some of them come from legitimate longtime florists who have now added a new profit centre to their operations...internet or yellow pages deception..."let the consumers think we have shops in every city in North America"....
Sending flowers out of town IS a service we ALL offer... it's mentioned on MY website, too. But only in the sense that our shop, IN ETOBICOKE ONTARIO, will send flowers on your behalf, through FTD, to other cities. If some fool from Niagara Falls hits my website and wants to send flowers to a friend also in Niagara Falls, I am NOT an order-gatherer... but where exactly is the line? I think it is not so easy to see. The major American gatherers like 1-800-Flowers are obvious...but some of the innocent-looking Mom and Pops are quietly doing the same thing. A "Do not fill for....." list invites legal issues.
I have to confess that I am still part of the problem because I will fill any order that comes in above my minimum...why pay all those fees to belong to FTD and TF if you are going to refuse to fill incoming orders? BUT I do have a few florist friends in neighbouring cities and when I cannot fill an order for that city I send the customer directly to them now rather that grabbing that rebate and 20% first. That is my first step. The consumer wins and my friend wins...same order, more profit. And a far better chance that the consumer will get more of what he paid for. So the flower business wins, too. On the other hand, we are getting more and more cold calls asking for the name & phone number of a flower shop in a paricular city so the caller can "do it himself" and I refuse them ALL.
Here's the bottom line. MANY us saw this coming and voted NO to dissolving the FTD CO-OP. Guess what we need again?
Some of them come from legitimate longtime florists who have now added a new profit centre to their operations...internet or yellow pages deception..."let the consumers think we have shops in every city in North America"....
Sending flowers out of town IS a service we ALL offer... it's mentioned on MY website, too. But only in the sense that our shop, IN ETOBICOKE ONTARIO, will send flowers on your behalf, through FTD, to other cities. If some fool from Niagara Falls hits my website and wants to send flowers to a friend also in Niagara Falls, I am NOT an order-gatherer... but where exactly is the line? I think it is not so easy to see. The major American gatherers like 1-800-Flowers are obvious...but some of the innocent-looking Mom and Pops are quietly doing the same thing. A "Do not fill for....." list invites legal issues.
I have to confess that I am still part of the problem because I will fill any order that comes in above my minimum...why pay all those fees to belong to FTD and TF if you are going to refuse to fill incoming orders? BUT I do have a few florist friends in neighbouring cities and when I cannot fill an order for that city I send the customer directly to them now rather that grabbing that rebate and 20% first. That is my first step. The consumer wins and my friend wins...same order, more profit. And a far better chance that the consumer will get more of what he paid for. So the flower business wins, too. On the other hand, we are getting more and more cold calls asking for the name & phone number of a flower shop in a paricular city so the caller can "do it himself" and I refuse them ALL.
Here's the bottom line. MANY us saw this coming and voted NO to dissolving the FTD CO-OP. Guess what we need again?
do I read you correctly?
Do i read your post correctly? You want to turn the clock back and go back to why we all joined FTD in the first place. Do you remember the fight , that if I remember correctly was pretty much no in Canada and yes in the States. Our Ftd rep at the time was Guy Lauren, who forcast the monster that Ftd was to become , for his efforts , he got fired .We used to get phone calls , faxes , mercury messages every day from shops trying to influence our decision, for the record we voted NO, and would do so again today. I don't think that the private operators of FTD would sell back to a Co-op unless the price was right.
Do i read your post correctly? You want to turn the clock back and go back to why we all joined FTD in the first place. Do you remember the fight , that if I remember correctly was pretty much no in Canada and yes in the States. Our Ftd rep at the time was Guy Lauren, who forcast the monster that Ftd was to become , for his efforts , he got fired .We used to get phone calls , faxes , mercury messages every day from shops trying to influence our decision, for the record we voted NO, and would do so again today. I don't think that the private operators of FTD would sell back to a Co-op unless the price was right.
Well yes...and no
No I don't think that we want FTD back, but yes a member-owned "wire service" could easily turn the tide. The half-baked shops that wanted to pay high fees and fill orders for a big discount could continue to do so, but the better shops who valued their own hard work would fill only for fellow members. If the discount was right we could go back to making money.
No I don't think that we want FTD back, but yes a member-owned "wire service" could easily turn the tide. The half-baked shops that wanted to pay high fees and fill orders for a big discount could continue to do so, but the better shops who valued their own hard work would fill only for fellow members. If the discount was right we could go back to making money.
another skimmer
I recieved an order today from justflowers.com
it was for a TF T115-3 the TF book price is $55 on this order and the price on the justflowers website is $54.99 plus a $6.99 delivery. Since this is an online ordering website, you know that the customer paid $62 bucks for this order. The instructions were
"fill order as closely as possible" if you need to substitute any items call first for authorization. Do you know how much they gave me to fill the order? $47 and that included delivery....
NOT! It got refused.
Jim
I recieved an order today from justflowers.com
it was for a TF T115-3 the TF book price is $55 on this order and the price on the justflowers website is $54.99 plus a $6.99 delivery. Since this is an online ordering website, you know that the customer paid $62 bucks for this order. The instructions were
"fill order as closely as possible" if you need to substitute any items call first for authorization. Do you know how much they gave me to fill the order? $47 and that included delivery....
NOT! It got refused.
Jim
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Only thing I may have done....
Was wait til I was head'n home, to send their dysfunctional order back to them...
The more we reject problem orders in advance of filling them, and then having to clean up their mess, the better off we'll all be...
Was wait til I was head'n home, to send their dysfunctional order back to them...
The more we reject problem orders in advance of filling them, and then having to clean up their mess, the better off we'll all be...
Rhonda
Well-Known Member
This is one US florist who voted NO!! I saw it before it came. Twas the greedy ones who saw a check coming and wanted it bad. Member owned, we had a say. Now our only say is by rejecting the orders sent to us by gatherers and putting our foot down on low ballers. Minimums are set, I have mine and will deliver for the prices listed. Don't send me an ask for more money if you're coded for "X amount" even in a non member town. You have the right to change your listings in non member town. I have many senior customers who don't have $45 to spend on a bedside budvase to their granddaughter in the hospital.
Problem was ... member owned FTD did nothing. Grew stale because no one (read no committee) could decide on anything.
Many people know of my disdain for Bob Norton, but at least he is doing something! It's hard to say which of inaction or wrong actions would have driven us from FTD faster ... but here we are.
Many people know of my disdain for Bob Norton, but at least he is doing something! It's hard to say which of inaction or wrong actions would have driven us from FTD faster ... but here we are.
Right on, Rhonda!
I like your no-nonsense approach to this subject. I am going to check my own minimums as soon as I get into work today. I know the reason I haven't been paying much attention to mine is because I have learned you can't trust anyone else's. Don't we all "add on the delivery charge" (supposed to be included FTD's system) or "bump the order up a bit" or whatever just to be sure the filling florist will send something decent?
The above example of a website not sending to the filling florist what they took for the product and delivery is just plain fraud. Unfortuately that site will be around a lot longer than mine. The Internet is Paradise for the dishonest. And there are millions of folks out there standing in line to be robbed!
I repeat something I said before...the best thing I can do for my out of town florist friends is to have the customer call them direct. I know the customer and my florist friend will win for sure, and in the long run maybe I will too!
I like your no-nonsense approach to this subject. I am going to check my own minimums as soon as I get into work today. I know the reason I haven't been paying much attention to mine is because I have learned you can't trust anyone else's. Don't we all "add on the delivery charge" (supposed to be included FTD's system) or "bump the order up a bit" or whatever just to be sure the filling florist will send something decent?
The above example of a website not sending to the filling florist what they took for the product and delivery is just plain fraud. Unfortuately that site will be around a lot longer than mine. The Internet is Paradise for the dishonest. And there are millions of folks out there standing in line to be robbed!
I repeat something I said before...the best thing I can do for my out of town florist friends is to have the customer call them direct. I know the customer and my florist friend will win for sure, and in the long run maybe I will too!
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