Stop! Smell the online flower fraud

[BOSS]

But you kidz are younger than me - go for it,

I've got an AARP card to ya know there old fella... I have the A and the other A and the P part figured out... still working on the R... but it's getting closer!

 

[LJVF]

I'm with Bigted and bloomz, IMO the negative publicity is a black eye to the industry as a whole. The way I see it, is that most of us here at FC know what a dOG is and all their little tricks, so it's easy for us to digest and comprehend these negative articles. But rather than be enlightened, the general public could misinterpret these articles. There are still many good local florists that are wire service members, so as long as the wire services let the dOGs carry their logo, the good guys and the bad guys will be mistakenly lumped together as one.

How many of you have tried to educate an employee on how the wire service system works; clearinghouse, commission percentages, rebates, etc...? Whenever I have, I usually get a blank stare. It usually takes them awhile to "get it". Now there are a few savvy customers out there, but I really do it goes over most heads.

I still probably get burned by a shady plumber. I really don't know what to look for, they're all the same to me.

 

[SpringCity]

It can be simple, just spread the word to consumers to use a real florist and call direct. They don't have to understand all the mumbo jumbo, just use a real florist. I have had calls from people out of town who did not want to get "ripped off" (their words) by the wire services. So there are people who get it.

 

[BOSS]

I'm with Bigted and bloomz, IMO the negative publicity is a black eye to the industry as a whole.

Let's say I agree with this statement, I don't but lets say I do...

I assume then, that you are all willing to simply go on like nothing is wrong, continue to be raped, and continue to allow rape and support the raping of consumers. Hide the dirty little secrets, and believe that you will still be here and be profitable in 5 years.

Bloomz financial adviser tells him to take all orders, mine on the other hand has shown me how to make more profit doing less work (discounted work), with fewer employees, and operate to get larger margins. I'm moving in the direction of a local high end florist... $30.00 orders are not really where I want to spend the rest of my life, especially when I only get paid $21.00 for filling junk. It would be different if they sent the $14.95 they collect, or even half of it to cover delivery...but they don't and won't, because there is no one telling them they are being raped.

 

[LJVF]

Let's say I agree with this statement, I don't but lets say I do...

I assume then, that you are all willing to simply go on like nothing is wrong, continue to be raped, and continue to allow rape and support the raping of consumers. Hide the dirty little secrets, and believe that you will still be here and be profitable in 5 years.

Bloomz financial adviser tells him to take all orders, mine on the other hand has shown me how to make more profit doing less work (discounted work), with fewer employees, and operate to get larger margins. I'm moving in the direction of a local high end florist... $30.00 orders are not really where I want to spend the rest of my life, especially when I only get paid $21.00 for filling junk. It would be different if they sent the $14.95 they collect, or even half of it to cover delivery...but they don't and won't, because there is no one telling them they are being raped.

Mark, if we're talking the profitability of being a wire service member then that is a whole different ballgame. I completely agree, being ws free has it's advantages and believe me I consider everything you say.

But when we're talking fighting the David and Goliath fight, I have a glass half empty outlook. I really do have a pessimistic attitude when it comes to us as an industry joining hands, combining forces and trying to slay this beast. I know, I know I have a bad attitude, I just have too many micro issues to deal with to even think about looking at the macro ones. I guess I look at it like there are too many of us (local florists) that are just like myself.

 

[Bigted]

Just because I love to argue, let me try one other point of view. I do believe that these information pieces will gradually convince more and more people that going local is the right thing to do.

However, at the same time, it convinces a lot of people that something is wrong with ordering flowers. They aren't really sure what the controversy is, but they know that something is wrong. The question is, can we hold out until enough people get educated before too many buy something else.

We all know that the quickest way to change the industry is for FTD/Tele/800 to adopt strict standards of performance and enforce them. The chances of that happening isn't good in my opinion. Let's say one of them tried to reform. Let's say tomorrow Teleflora implemented strict OG policies, no deception, etc. and aggressively enforced them. What would happen is that the OGs that acount for millions of orders would send them to the other W/s. Then, a lot of the local florists would move from Teleflora to the others, because "orders are down". Pretty soon, Teleflora would have to re-think their policy.

edit - And by the way, the more controversy there is in the industry, the more people will gravitate to "trusted names" like FTD, Teleflora, Proflowers and 1-800.

 

[BOSS]

But when we're talking fighting the David and Goliath fight, I have a glass half empty outlook. I really do have a pessimistic attitude when it comes to us as an industry joining hands, combining forces and trying to slay this beast. I know, I know I have a bad attitude, I just have too many micro issues to deal with to even think about looking at the macro ones. I guess I look at it like there are too many of us (local florists) that are just like myself.

I do believe that these information pieces will gradually convince more and more people that going local is the right thing to do.

However, at the same time, it convinces a lot of people that something is wrong with ordering flowers. They aren't really sure what the controversy is, but they know that something is wrong. The question is, can we hold out until enough people get educated before too many buy something else.

edit - And by the way, the more controversy there is in the industry, the more people will gravitate to "trusted names" like FTD, Teleflora, Proflowers and 1-800.

You guy's, I do appreciate your thoughts...

Maybe I, and the other wacko's that think we can do something about this are off base...maybe instead of trying to convince florist's to drop the wire services, we should be convincing them they should drop SAF, and they should be convincing their suppliers to drop WF&FSA...

After all, the need to transmit orders will be there as long as we have customers, but do we really need SAF and WF&FSA? Neither organization has the balls to stand up FOR US, neither one will go on the record about the REAL ISSUES facing the profitability of local florists and the rape of consumer dollars from the industry...

Evidently consumers do not mind paying $14.95 just to have someone take their order, so perhaps we too should be charging a fee for the privledge of shopping with us. Or better yet, charge the same price including the fee and put the money into flowers, and offer a better product.

Yea, I think that's it, convince florists to drop SAF, and as their numbers fall, maybe they'll find their guts and really do something to help the industry at the local level.

Night gent's, it's been a fun day... time to call it done....

 

[CHR]

There's obviously more demand for LOCAL, and more users indicating LOCAL intent, otherwise Google wouldn't have added local stores on single word keywords like 'florists', 'flowers' and 'flower delivery' as they did last week.

The florists clamoring for incomings are fighting for fewer and fewer orders in the system period. 1-800 wants shoppers to buy more gift baskets, cookies, candy & popcorn, and FTD wants them to buy boxed products. Most of the big dOGs have added drop ship flowers & gifts to their catalogs, too.

Educate. Optimize. Promote your own brand.

But don't Deny.

 

[RWK]

While I agree with JB on his theory that BAD publicity hurts all of US - Real Florists, OG's and d'OG's, I read the article and found it informative and it did not have a negative slant.....not that I read.

It DID advise caution - which is wise - Know what you are dealing with BEFORE you sink your hard-earned dollars into it. Especially now in the tenous, uncertain economy. For instance, I like something different and if I were sending flowers to a friend in Oregon, I would use JB's shop - but me being the educated consumer that I am, I would talk with Twila and try to convey my wants to a fellow designer ( We florists send flowers too ) - The Key is Educated consumer and UN-educated consumer.

Now, Others may feel differently - but the d'OG's RELY on the UNEDUCATED consumer. With the deceptive practices, they really don't want a knowledgeable customer who knows what they do because they have read, or heard, or been informed about what to look for.

If we can't get any of the big dogs to take any action nationally, then it falls to us to take action locally, in our own markets, with our customers...... and to educate our fellow florists and hope the message sinks in.

 

[bloomz]

It can be simple, just spread the word to consumers to use a real florist and call direct. They don't have to understand all the mumbo jumbo, just use a real florist. I have had calls from people out of town who did not want to get "ripped off" (their words) by the wire services. So there are people who get it.

Yeah I've also had - one or two over our 15 years in business....

The question is, can we hold out until enough people get educated before too many buy something else.

Having seen nothing change except the problem getting worse for the last 10 years + - I'd say the answer to that, is a resounding

NO.

edit - And by the way, the more controversy there is in the industry, the more people will gravitate to "trusted names" like FTD, Teleflora, Proflowers and 1-800.

Absolutely a huge part of what I believe - this kind of stuff just drives them to those gorillas.

Quite counter-productive from our point of view.


Addendum - Next it will be pointed out that in spite of their "rusted names" - 800TFTD has lots of complaints - listening to Rubies in the Orchard today - Linda Resnick said she asked how many florist complained when they raised monthly fees from $7, and was told 50 or so...out of 7000.

Can you guess that she called BFD on that? :icon15

Rickie - there's no shortage of uneducated consumers.....

Most of the big dOGs have added drop ship flowers & gifts to their catalogs, too.

and this is one side example of the counter productive nature of negativity - not only do they do this for higher profits, but also it is a way to deal with declining coverage.

 

[RWK]

You are correct JB - UNEDUCATED CUSTOMERS ABOUND IN VAST, VAST QUANTITIES......

so......

Your Mission JB - Should you decide to accept it......Is to Educate, Teach, and convey as many customers and consumers in the areas served by the corporate floral entity known as Expressions in Blooms to the wiles, practices, and deceptions executed by the dis-honorable entities known to real florists as d'OGs.

This mission can be handled either by you, or those who work along you in said corporate floral entity, or both parties.

 

[bloomz]

Nope - sorry won't accept it - that's a negative mission and I ain't doing negativity about our industry.

On the other hand I will accept the mission to tell them all the POSITIVE stuff we do.

Take it a bit a lesson learned from Mother Theresa -

When asked if she would march in an Anti-War rally she said "No, but I will march in a Pro-Peace one".

 

[RWK]

Now a simple question - for which there IS NO right or wrong answer - but simply how you think and feel.

Do you BELIEVE that your mission of POSITIVE APPROACHES and POSITIVITY about our industry WILL outweigh the influence of d'OGs in your area?

If you say YES, then the mission is yours.

 

[goldfish]

Did anyone notice that independent florists are fighting each other over how to fight (or not fight) OGs, rather than doing something constructive about the OG problem? It's sad, really.

I have one small pledge to make.

If any of you sends us a wire order, we will email you a picture of the actual arrangement we made and delivered, so that you can give it to your customer. Just indicate in the merc order that you want a picture. No charge, of course, since we are already doing it for all the online orders.

If a significant number of us do this sort of thing, i.e., REAL customer service, as opposed to infighting, maybe, just maybe, we might be able to win this game.

 

[CHR]

I go back to the excellent article from MSNBC during Valentine's Day.

If this were a free market, all information about the transaction would be transparent, and the best product with the best price would win. Instead, the most convincing advertiser wins. Ultimately, this economic system -- which is not capitalism -- will put honest companies out of business and reward deceivers. The current list of troubled banks, home builders, mortgage brokers and retailers is a “Who's Who” of well-marketed companies that had unsustainable profits built on false advertising. Their business models were a house of cards destined to eventually fail.

The day this board deems it 'uncool' to dare speak in public about the very valid reasons to choose locals over OGs is the day I leave.

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Did anyone notice that independent florists are fighting each other over how to fight (or not fight) OGs, rather than doing something constructive about the OG problem? It's sad, really.

I have one small pledge to make.

If any of you sends us a wire order, we will email you a picture of the actual arrangement we made and delivered, so that you can give it to your customer. Just indicate in the merc order that you want a picture. No charge, of course, since we are already doing it for all the online orders.

If a significant number of us do this sort of thing, i.e., REAL customer service, as opposed to infighting, maybe, just maybe, we might be able to win this game.

Mike Soenen like the idea of imposing picture taking for FTD.COM orders. I think the new owner likes the idea as well. So, keep your camera ready goldfish, FTD.COM might just be calling.

 

[Dazeal]

I love it!

Flowers, the ONLY THING SOLD ONLINE (5 billion $ a year) where the customer never really knows what they are getting or is under the impression that he might get something close to what he is asking for. Credibility is closing in on 0!! WOooooohooooo!

BUT never fear, I am here and on the side of the B&M florists!

Hang in there guys, we're going to pwn the OGs / dOGs / WS etc.. soon enough... ok maybe 2 years. COME ON TECHNOLOGY HURRY UP!

I hope more articles like this keep popping up. I read this article when Duane sent out his tweet this morning.. I need to re-tweet later tonight. I encourage all of you to tweet it up!

Thanks mlou and cathy.

 

[bloomz]

Now a simple question - for which there IS NO right or wrong answer - but simply how you think and feel.

Do you BELIEVE that your mission of POSITIVE APPROACHES and POSITIVITY about our industry WILL outweigh the influence of d'OGs in your area?

If you say YES, then the mission is yours.

Been on that mission for years Rickie...with a great deal of success, and I never have to slam the competition. Tried that and it was counter productive.

Positive trumps negative and that's a fact.

I only educate my consumers, by showing them, on how great we are. I'll never perpetuate negativity.

But thanks for re-assigning me.

I'll stay on it.

 

[RWK]

Thanks JB - That simply re-affirms my position.......let's be brutally honest.....We KNOW full well that MONEY talks.....the 'powers that be' are squarely in the pockets of the worst offenders and the 'powers that be' ain't gonna risk that almighty dollar landing in somebody elses pocket.

So, knowing that, I stand firm in my thinking that our way to success is not by attacking or combatting or trying to play their game on a national level.....but by playing our game, in our own neighborhoods.....in other words, We will beat 'the worst offenders' one customer, one community, one local area at a time.

In other words - so they have the USA covered.....but they lost little corvallis oregon, they lost huntington new york, they lost Toto's area, they lost Boss's area, they lost Chr's area, they losing little swansea south carolina, they losing in florida, ontario, other places in canada, losing in powdersville south carolina.....see my point.

 

[JERRYEIZ]

FYI Bloomz...we all would like all press coverage of the industry to be positive, however I don't see any organization addressing OG business practices...it sure isn't SAF. It has to be up to the individual florists to educate their communities of the dangers of OG's if this is ever going to stop.

In January, I sent out a press release to the local papers highlighting the damage OG's were doing to the consumers and florists. It was turned into an article by the largest county paper and published before Valentine's Day. Since then I have received calls from new customers asking first if I was local to the recipient, then assured that we were, placing an order.

I'm not sure any of these calls were from the article, but the message to buy local seems to be getting out . If we all take this tack, more will get the message. I thank the press for recognizing the OG practices and responding with articles like this.

The next step is to get the State legislatures to strengthen and inforce their deceptive practices laws.

If anyone would like a copy of the Press Release I sent out, I will make it available.