We no longer have any big wire services! I'm nervous about it.

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W

WBN

New Member
Jul 22, 2005
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La Verne
State / Prov
CA
Hello, everyone. It's been sometime since I've been here on the board. I've been getting letters regularly from Strider lately. It's piqued my interest again.

I really do like this site. I've come on once in awhile to just lurk and see what you're all talking about. I just want to tell you that I'm glad you're all here.

I've spent a few days reading some of the posts. I just like the information you all give forth and I like reading what you're all saying. It gets me out of my box. I like it.

We were a flower shop in San Dimas, California for four years. We moved our shop to La Verne, California a month ago. It was only a
five-mile move geographically but definitely a positive move businesswise. It's the perfect example of "location, location, location."

Well, along with the move, my partner and I decided to get rid of Teleflora. We were never with FTD. I never liked all the fees with Teleflora, but the clincher was when Teleflora charged us for "quality control." I had an hour-long conversation with Teleflora about how "quality control" should be part of our monthly fee, but we still were paying the fee. (I'm sure you all have your negative wire service stories. No need for me to state all ours here).

Anyway, I'm a nervous wreck being without a wire service. What we've been doing is looking online and finding a florist throughout the country where we need to have a delivery sent. I call the few florists in the area and do what I call a few minute "interview" to see if I'm talking to a real florist with a brick and mortar building and to see if it's someone that I feel will follow through in the manner that I want. Then I give them a credit card that we've set aside just for outside orders.

I was initially asking for the 80/20 split, but I never felt comfortable with that. I felt I was putting the receiving florist on the spot and I just was not feeling good about it. Actually I was more concerned with making sure that we were going to get a good product with great service. The 80/20 split was not as important to me as the quality product and service. Anyway, reading the posts on here I saw others felt that is tacky as well. I like the idea that if we want the 80/20 split then I would tell the receiving florist a reasonable amount to fill the order.

Besides my own fear -- which I'm thinking might be unfounded -- I keep asking myself and other florists, "What are all of these wire services going to do if a lot of florists do what we have done and just left them?" Does anyone know? I know they'll find some solution. Business always looks for solutions. I would hate the solution to be something that would even be worse for us.

What I'm looking for is comments on how to feel comfortable being without a wire service and what does everyone think the wire services will do if there aren't any or enough florists to fill their orders.

Beverly

P.S. My partner just reminded me that we did sign on to Clearroot, which is a wire service. I had forgotten. So far that seems to be working, but it's small yet and pretty much it doesn't cover what we need. I'm sure it can sometime in the future and I hope it does.
 
Beverly, I'm sure TOTO or another will pop in here and tell you about IFA, in independent wire service. Less costly ... may be an alternative if you're nervous about going cold turkey.

I'm curious, are you nervous because you aren't sure of the quality of the shops you're finding, or because you appreciated the incoming orders and income they added to your business?

Also, be sure and list your shop in the Flowerchat Member Florist Directory - it's a good place to find shops who at least may have more of a clue than just piciking a random shop online. Also, try Flowershopnetwork.com, and locateaflowershop.com, ilocalflorist.com, and I sure hope someone will add to this list. I'm just getting ready to leave and wanted to post an encouraging word..... good luck with your new move!
 
well first off.. welcome back!

about calling out your orders: I don't belong to any WS and I use locate a flower shop network and it makes life pretty easy for me. Most of the florists on it are comfortable with direct orders. I don't ask for or expect a discount either, I'm just happy to get my order out. In the almost 9 months I've been open I've had only one florist turn me down.

What would they do without us?? hmm...my guess would be.. they would shift to all direct ship items? I'm sure there are many here that have more educated guesses.
 
The ball isin your court.
If you feel you need to have a % on each orders you send, keep 10% and give the difference when you call those orders out.

If a wire service calls on you to fill orders take their credit card number first and do not give them a % off.

If they want you to join them, make sure you show them the door, there is enough companies out there that you do not need a wire service to transfer orders.
Luc
 
Tracy, thank you for responding.

I'm mostly nervous about the receiving florist and not knowing what we're getting. But I must say that so far all have been great. I know that is because I spend time doing my "interview." I seem to get a repore going with the florist on the other end and so far all has been well. I'm getting good responses and good service. It's been about 40 transactions since the beginning of April, with Mother's Day in there, which would give us more than normal.

As far as the incoming orders, I found that no matter how many orders we sent or received Teleflora generally got most of it, so I never depended on that for keeping our shop afloat. Our shop stays afloat from local orders having nothing to do with wire services.

My uneasiness comes because I just feel like a flower shop "HAS" to have a wire service; really no other reason. I know it's a foolilsh feeling. But we cut the umbilical cord and we're still alive. It's been since April 1.
 
Luc said:
The ball isin your court.
If you feel you need to have a % on each orders you send, keep 10% and give the difference when you call those orders out.

If a wire service calls on you to fill orders take their credit card number first and do not give them a % off.

If they want you to join them, make sure you show them the door, there is enough companies out there that you do not need a wire service to transfer orders.
Luc
Click to expand...

Luc:

I have had shops calling in that used to use us. I've told them we're no longer on the wire service. Some place orders with us and others say, "Okay. Thank you" and hang up.

How do you deal with sales tax? Do you ask them to waive sales tax?
 
WBN said:
Tracy, thank you for responding.
My uneasiness comes because I just feel like a flower shop "HAS" to have a wire service; really no other reason. I know it's a foolilsh feeling. But we cut the umbilical cord and we're still alive. It's been since April 1.
Click to expand...

My take on the issue of Exchanging Flower Orders [Wire Services] is different. In my opinion, florists exchanging flower orders is for the consumer. Exchanging orders with other florists [this is before the Internet] is what made the flower industry unique. It increases the sale of flowers and that is what was important and still is.

Florists were accommodating the consumer and the bonus was that flower sales increased. We have totally forgotten that as being the purpose having the wire service.

Now it's all about being for the florist. That's wrong, dead wrong.

If I take an order from my customer to have flowers delivered in your city, WHY WON'T FLORISTS DO THAT? It gets people buying flowers, it gets people having flowers. THAT'S GOOD.

Unfortunate, the venue that florists gave life to [the wire service] has bastardized the concept.

Forget commissions. Forget rebates. But keep the gift of flowers alive.

It's different with the Internet but too many florists are not looking at the big picture. Greed has come into the equation. Greed on the part of the wire service, greed on the part of the sending florist.

Unfortunately, I don't think the dilemma we have today has a solution. Maybe it is time to totally abandon the wire services and let the consumer fend for themselves on the Internet. And the people who don't want to use the Internet to send flowers, well, they can just forget about using flowers to express their sentiments. Start telling consumers that we do not want them to use florists to send their orders.

I fill orders for other florists because their customers deserve this service. In order to make it pay [and that's not easy with the WS fees] I have to make sure my payrolls does not increase by making my employees more productive. Each designer should be able to handle just a few more orders without my having to hire more staff. And do you agree that employees are happier when they are busier?

Tom Carlson
 
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When you were Teleflora, did you really know what you were dealing with on the other end? Just because a shop belongs to a wire service doesn't mean you can trust what will be sent out for your customer. I can't wait for the day that I am wire sevice free.
 
WBN said:
Luc:

I have had shops calling in that used to use us. I've told them we're no longer on the wire service. Some place orders with us and others say, "Okay. Thank you" and hang up.

How do you deal with sales tax? Do you ask them to waive sales tax?
Click to expand...

I can tell you how we deal with sales tax for F2F orders. It is the same for anyone who wants to be tax exempt, I need a copy of your tax exempt paper or you have to pay taxes. You can't provide it, I can't exempt you. Simple as that.
 
Since you were TF, that means you still have their directory.

Nothing has changed. I don't know why you feel uncomfortable with sending a flower shop an order - direct - with no expectation of a 20 percent kickback like other small networked-florists expect.

You will be fine, if you don't need, want or value any additional incoming business.

joe
 
Thank you all for your responses. Joe, you're right. We didn't need, want or value the additional business from the wire service, although we filled all orders with the upmost of care. But since Teleflora took most of what was made from those orders, it was not really considered an income source. Also, I market my business for the local business that calls and walks in and the corporate accounts.

Kobe, based on your post I'm going to have my wholesale license ready to send through the fax. :)

Tantalizing, you're right. I didn't know much about the receiving florist even on Teleflora except for those that I used regularly and got to know.

Tom, I'm going to look at it more from a standpoint of offering my clients a service that I'm providing whereby they can have flowers sent to places outside our area.

Thank you for your welcome backs and your responses. :)
 
We use IFA Beverly

Below is a repost of information regarding IFA. It is an alternative to a Wire Service and enables a REAL FLORIST to send their order out to other REAL FLORISTS.

Our customers still depend upon us to service their out of town needs, especially the ones who are not Internet savy.

We're happy to be able to provide them with this service.

Like you, we call the shop first to make sure that, they are still in business and like you, interview either the shop owner or the shop manager. We never discuss anything with a clerk since most of them do not know what IFA is to begin with. Once we are comfortable with the florist and we've determined THEY HAVE A BRAIN, we're good to go and send through IFA.

For more information on my past posts regarding WSs and how their business model has become outdated and outmoded, click on this link and scroll to areas you may find of interest to you.

http://www.flowerchat.com/forums/search.php?searchid=713621

We're still using IFA to send out all of our REAL FLORIST 2 REAL FLORIST orders. IFA is not a wire service, per se. Rather, it is an order transmission system between two real florists.

IFA can also service your International Floral Order needs, as well.

Once you're a member, you simply log into the IFA website, select the florist you want your order to go to, fill out their online F2F floral order form, and your order is sent through the FAS NET network.

Some filler shops get your order via FAS-NET, others receive it via their FAX, and for some, IFA/FAS-NET operators phone it into those shops.

Membership in IFA is FREE for FILLERS and SENDERS only pay $20 per month with NO PER ORDER TRANSMISSION CHARGES.

We use the 80% net to filler formula and the filler does not pay any incoming order transmission charges. The filler gains a full 9% more per IFA order versus through a WS who discounts their order by 7% plus another 2% on average for transmission charges. The filler uses our company credit card (the one which gives me da most points) and they get our money in their bank account within 48 hours, not 45 days.

www.myifa.org

Here's a link to contact any of the IFA Board of Directors:

http://www.myifa.org/about/di.php

Here's their link to their online Membership Application Form:

http://www.myifa.org/users/signup.php

We are also a member of RFA (Retail Florist's Association) recently renamed from the ETFA (Extra Touch Florist's Association)

RFA is not a wire service. It is an Independent REAL FLORIST trade association. RFA currently offers website hosting with several options. The prime objective of RFA is to assist Independent Florists in their efforts by PROMOTING THEMSELVES and their own FLORAL SHOPS.

For more information, you can use this link for RFA:

www.etfa.org

Both of these organizations are optional tools for many small mom and pop shops who have had enough of the OLD WS's BUSINESS MODEL or simply CAN'T AFFORD THEM ANY LONGER.

While there are NO MAGIC BULLETS on our Horizon, at least these two associations help a REAL FLORIST service their customer's out of town needs via IFA and compete with the OGs with their own websites via RFA.

Perhaps others can post other options they have had personal experiences with, as well.
 
To be honest, with the Internet now I don't see why I would even need a wire service at all. :dunno:
 
Tis True!

studioflora said:
To be honest, with the Internet now I don't see why I would even need a wire service at all. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Not only do you NOT NEED a WS with the internet, you really can't afford to subsidize one anymore.

Still, IFA does make the process easier and for only $20 per month when you send, it works for us.

As I've stated, IFA is not a WS! It's only objective is to enable F2F orders to be transmitted in an orderly fashion.

Besides, I've always liked HARD COPY and a DATA TRAIL.
 
studioflora said:
To be honest, with the Internet now I don't see why I would even need a wire service at all. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Perhaps because it's a crap shoot as to what quality you find?

I have no desire to go this route, knowing who fills my customers orders is way too important for me to just choose at random.

Our Preferred Florist list is one of the most valuable business tools we posess.
 
I am Wire Service free and have been for a year now. It has helped us be more profitable. We phone out wire orders for our customers benefit. We Google flower shop (city) (state) to find the flower shops in a given city. If a flower shop has been in existence a longer amount of time they probably have serviced customers well and are good shops to use. Also as you phone out the order you can sense whether they'll take good care of the order or not. If anything makes you question whether they'll do a good job for you or if they cop an attitude just don't give them the order and say you're sorry but you'll find someone else to take the order and hang up. We've done that with pretty good luck. We also encourage feedback from our customers so we know how individual orders turn out. It definitely makes your bottom line much better being wire service free. Best wishes and good luck!

Brian
 
bloomz said:
Perhaps because it's a crap shoot as to what quality you find?

I have no desire to go this route, knowing who fills my customers orders is way too important for me to just choose at random.

Our Preferred Florist list is one of the most valuable business tools we posess.
Click to expand...

A wire service is no guarantee of quality. I could tell you stories from freelancing, of awful shops that get all kinds of incoming orders where the sending shop would die if they could see where their order was going.

Good for you that you've been fortunate to find ones via that route but so often sales clerks just "dove" orders to whoever on the list with no conversation with a florist. Working at wire service shops I would always call and chat with the florist for a minute. You can get a great feel in a short time; do they know flowers, do they care at all about what they are doing, their willingness to get deliveries out the same day, and so on. I can get on the Internet and find a florist and have that same conversation without paying a wire service big $$$.
 
First - Congratulations on your move and best of luck with settling into your future. My shop does currently belong to FTD, though we are tossing the idea around of becoming wire service free. Thanks to all who posted all the tips, websites and how to's. They are much appreciated.

We are called directly (not wire service transaction) with some frequency and have always been asked to offer the 20 / 80 split with the florist. SO here is my question . . . I am simply asking but am concerned I will be in for a firestorm of comments, remember I'm just asking so I will understand the logic behind the request . . . why should I give you 20% of this order?

I know, I know. I pay alot more than 20% to the wire service. However, I can call the WS and have them act as mediator if there is problem. They do advertise nationally on my behalf. And as of today - I am choosing to pay for being a member. Just because the sending florist chooses not to be - I'm not sure I should be expected to honor this "professional courtsesy". Explain this to me, because up til now, I never understood the reasoning.

Leah
 
Leah, I hate the 80/20 thing. I see no logic in it but I think it's some kind of mentality of having been "trained" by the wire services to ask for it, thinking that you are supposed to or something. I don't give it and I have never requested it. When I was on my own I'd just charge a small fee to my customer for my few minutes of making the call and then give full value.
 
studioflora said:
A wire service is no guarantee of quality.
Click to expand...

Used properly it is indeed. One of the things we pay for and get (if used properly) is dispute resolution.

That said, wire membership is no guarantee or assurance of quality.
 
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