Some good ideas and thoughts but I too am unsure about dropping our wire-services. I guess I fugure as long as I am getting a check from them each month then they are OK for me.
Is this logic crazy??
Is this logic crazy??
We no longer have any big wire services! I'm nervous about it.
- Thread starter WBN
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BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
In a word...yes...I've posted a link to the wire service calculator in two other threads...check it out...
bloomz responds to the questions with the following
Posted by TOTO
SFOX had pointed out LONG AGO that, it is both fair and just since, it was the SENDING FLORIST who created the sale to begin with by using their own money to market to their own customers. Had the sending florist not made that investment, the floral sale to your shop, would never exist. In addition, FILLING FLORISTS expended NO MONEY for the ORDER'S ACQUISITION CHARGES, which places their shop far ahead of the game.
Very true.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by WBN
As I was calling more and more, I began to realize that the receiving florist had no reason to give me the split and also shouldn't give me the split because they are paying the WS fees and I'm not.
I appreciate your post confirming that there was good reason for my uneasiness with that request.
Beverly
Gosh I'm glad someone "gets it".
There's quite a lot of savings in not paying wire membership dues.
And a dollar saved is a dollar earned.
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Well bloomz , I don't get it.
I originally posted that the sender was entitled to get paid for creating the sale. With that statement you agreed.
But you stated that when a FLORIST calls you who happens to be wire service free, you feel they are not entitled to any split because they are saving on not paying fees to the wire service itself. Sorry, but they still have the expense of marketing to their customer and providing the service that created that sale.
Does that mean that if the wire service you belong to does not have filler in the area you need an order delivered to, the florist who does service the area but is not a member of any wire service should then hold you hostage by adding 20% to whatever you wished filled and then some because you will also get a rebate?
Plus because you are a sender you feel entitled to be compensated for creating the sale when you belong to a wire service, but are willing to turn away another florist for doing just what you do, but is wire service free.
I get what you are trying to say but the hairs you are splitting are really fine! Why should a wire service free compensate you for your need of belonging?
Posted by TOTO
SFOX had pointed out LONG AGO that, it is both fair and just since, it was the SENDING FLORIST who created the sale to begin with by using their own money to market to their own customers. Had the sending florist not made that investment, the floral sale to your shop, would never exist. In addition, FILLING FLORISTS expended NO MONEY for the ORDER'S ACQUISITION CHARGES, which places their shop far ahead of the game.
Very true.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by WBN
As I was calling more and more, I began to realize that the receiving florist had no reason to give me the split and also shouldn't give me the split because they are paying the WS fees and I'm not.
I appreciate your post confirming that there was good reason for my uneasiness with that request.
Beverly
Gosh I'm glad someone "gets it".
There's quite a lot of savings in not paying wire membership dues.
And a dollar saved is a dollar earned.
_________________________________________________________
Well bloomz , I don't get it.
I originally posted that the sender was entitled to get paid for creating the sale. With that statement you agreed.
But you stated that when a FLORIST calls you who happens to be wire service free, you feel they are not entitled to any split because they are saving on not paying fees to the wire service itself. Sorry, but they still have the expense of marketing to their customer and providing the service that created that sale.
Does that mean that if the wire service you belong to does not have filler in the area you need an order delivered to, the florist who does service the area but is not a member of any wire service should then hold you hostage by adding 20% to whatever you wished filled and then some because you will also get a rebate?
Plus because you are a sender you feel entitled to be compensated for creating the sale when you belong to a wire service, but are willing to turn away another florist for doing just what you do, but is wire service free.
I get what you are trying to say but the hairs you are splitting are really fine! Why should a wire service free compensate you for your need of belonging?
Yes. Consider this example...
In May, suppose you got:
$1,000 wire-ins.
zero wire-outs.
In this scenario, you will receive a check of approximately $730 - monthly fees, probably in the range of $300-400.
But to fill and deliver $1,000 wire-in orders, you almost certainly have spent ~$350 for flowers and supplies and ~$100 for delivery-related costs, total of ~$450.
So the check of $300-400 from the WS is LESS than what you spent. You probably lost money in this example, break-even at best.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Let's not forget the $250 (25%) labor factor....
Oh crap...we're in the hole already...and we have not accounted for rent/mortgage, insurance, utilities...
:itchy:
Yes it is and that's the classic trap they have set for you.
I'll state again - and I am not joking or being sarcastic - I love writing checks to wire services - it means I made money. (Caveat - I don't buy their ridiculous advertising card ads coops ads or unnecessary products)
Fox - In a word it's about reciprocity.
In 3 words it's about tit for tat.
I know you know what I am talking about.
For someone who doesn't? If you wish to profit from our work, we must have the ability to profit from yours as well. That's the same reason I don't take SFO orders, and non-ws members, similar to the FASNET deal, are basically SFO's from my perspective, cuz I will never send an order back that way. And unless there is no wire service member in your town - the likelyhood of me sending direct is nil. It's the business model I have chosen, for now.
That said, when I do send direct on a credit card (it happens, rarely but it happens) I do not take nor ask for nor expect 20% of the order, even if offered.
It seems to me that with all your experience you should be able fly solo. It will be very different for you yet you are free to be more creative and possibly more direct marketing to your customers. Best wishes
Flowerchatter03
Co-Owner and Floral Composer
Regarding this 80/20 discussion, why don't those, who think they are entitled to it, just take it off the top prior to sending it to another shop?
For example, your customer orders something for $100 why not call the other shop and tell them you have an order for a total of $80? You get the percentage you feel you are entitled and you are not asking them for a discount/favor?
Most shops are NOT going to fill a $100 order (with $100 worth of product) when they are only getting $80. How many times have you given an order to another shop, regardless of whether it was direct or through a WS, and found out later they did not fill to value?
While the sending shop might have "captured" the order initially, you need it filled by a trusted florist. Just because you received the order doesn't necessarily entitle you to a percentage. The filling shop didn't call you asking for the business. You are calling them asking to fill an order for your customer.
How is this any different than the funeral homes wanting a percentage of the sale? Or the cc'd company wanting a percentage? Yes, yes, it costs them money to move your money but come on....
For example, your customer orders something for $100 why not call the other shop and tell them you have an order for a total of $80? You get the percentage you feel you are entitled and you are not asking them for a discount/favor?
Most shops are NOT going to fill a $100 order (with $100 worth of product) when they are only getting $80. How many times have you given an order to another shop, regardless of whether it was direct or through a WS, and found out later they did not fill to value?
While the sending shop might have "captured" the order initially, you need it filled by a trusted florist. Just because you received the order doesn't necessarily entitle you to a percentage. The filling shop didn't call you asking for the business. You are calling them asking to fill an order for your customer.
How is this any different than the funeral homes wanting a percentage of the sale? Or the cc'd company wanting a percentage? Yes, yes, it costs them money to move your money but come on....
There's contradictions there, when you use the words "trusted florist" - well, trusted florists fill $100 orders to $100.
The idea is, when a consumer spends $100 - they deserve to get $100 worht of flowers.
The ones that fill to $80 are skimmers, and we do try to avoid them like the plague on the industry they are.
The idea is, when a consumer spends $100 - they deserve to get $100 worht of flowers.
The ones that fill to $80 are skimmers, and we do try to avoid them like the plague on the industry they are.
Flowerchatter03
Co-Owner and Floral Composer
Absolutely! I completely agree! But I think I would need a bigger book than the WS directories to list the skimmers as "do not use". While the DOVE POS has the ability to put someone on the DNU list, that only applies to the ones who are TF.
The problem with the phrase '$100 worth of flowers' is that it varies greatly from shop to shop and from region to region.
Wanna bet that overall, the florists with the lowest percentages of incomings to total business give more in flowers for $100 than the shops that do a lot of filling?
Don't you think an $80 order from Oberers would be larger than $100 from most of their competitors?
The WSs have always had it bass-ackwards. Let local florists say/show what they offer for $100 and let the customer choose from real, live, local, available products - not just hope someone can get 'close enough for the dollars' to a photo dreamed up in the corporate office.
LJVF
Well-Known Member
What if the customer orders a specifically priced arrangement like 1 dozen roses?
Yup. And the florist who got the $80 order should then call another florist and tell them to fill for a $64 order. The third florist then call another shop, and so on, until all the inital $100 is exhausted. The last unlucky florist can then deliver a stem of carnation to the unsuspecting recipient.
But again, the above is not far from what is already happening.
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati
New Member
Incoming wire orders are expensive, and invariably are paid by increasing prices and giving lower value.
Florists don't realize the effects filling incoming wire orders has on their price structure. In general the more incoming a florist has the less value he is able to give his customers.
RC
There has been a lot of talk about cost accounting and contribution margins here in the past. I can't remember if you agreed with what is said on that topic or not, but I do recall your consultant telling you to fill every incoming order that you could make money on, no matter the sender, to increase your bottom line.
Now, is there any way possible for you to contribute less to your bottom line with an 80/20 split as opposed to an equivalent order through the WS?
The attitude of "We'll pay a lot to give big discounts to club members, but we will not accept a better offer from non-members" has absolutely no merit with respect to contribution margins. It is nothing more than a pissing match between ever-dividing florists that ends up cornholing the consumer, once again.
I know most florists on this board have a lot more experience than me, so please tell me why I am wrong. Cuz, I don't get it.
oke: Jason :dunceOh no you don't!
Careful there Bloomz, don't you start getting soft on us now.
If we don't have varying opinions, then whats left to talk about.
I'm sure slick Willy has a shot at being vise president, it's all good.:headbang:
Careful there Bloomz, don't you start getting soft on us now.
If we don't have varying opinions, then whats left to talk about.
I'm sure slick Willy has a shot at being vise president, it's all good.:headbang:
no wire service and love it!
I've been using Flowershopnetwork since leaving the ws
Works great for me, it's either a 80/20 split or 100%
depending on how the order was processed. May not
work for everyone but I have no complaints.
I've been using Flowershopnetwork since leaving the ws
Works great for me, it's either a 80/20 split or 100%
depending on how the order was processed. May not
work for everyone but I have no complaints.
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