Web site instead of wire services?

[Griff]

Here's another thought about discounted business

I had another thought last night and I think it should be shared.

Some florists can't seem to get away from the dependency of the incoming discounted wire order. They know it is discounted. They know that these orders are sporadic, they seem to know all the disadvantages, but never the less, feel they need them to keep busy. Then why are florists NOT willing to discount other business??

How about wedding business for example. A florist friend told me the other day that the average wedding he's doing these days is $750 and although we are in different size towns and in different income levels, my numbers are pretty much the same. So what happens if you offer a 25% discount on any wedding that is $1,000 or more. For the Bride that is only willing to spend $750, she may now be willing to go to $1,000 and order more flowers for the reception. Afterall, to her it is like getting the extra $250 of flowers for free. Four upgrades like that gives the florist an extra $1,000 in sales. If you pull in one extra wedding per year, that is to your advantage. How about the references your shop will get from the Bride?

Here's the question. Which is better for the florist? A $1,000 wedding discounted to $750 or 20 incoming WS orders at $50 each? Which is going to make you more money? Just the thought about 50 individual deliveries as versus 1 or 2 for the wedding should give you some indication. Any comments??

 

[Joe Mioux]

Griff........ God Love You!

This is a bit off this topic, but I just can't let your last post go.

One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get this business in your day to day sales activity.

Never discount your normal daily business It is plain carzy to do so. (I know what you are thinking re: WS, don't go there. ) I have a great example of a lot of WS business that just occurred yesterday. It was a funeral. The source of all this WS business was another FC member.

However, it is beyond crazy to discount weddings.

The notion of discounting a wedding makes my hair hurt!

Weddings should have a surcharge assessed against that business. Weddings are too labor intensive. Your labor bill will eat all your profits and dig into fixed costs.

NOTE OF CLARIFICATION: The practice of discounting a wedding is bad business.Griff, I truly hope you interpret my comments here in a positive manner, not confrontational. I have really enjoyed our debate.

It has truly been fun and hopefully educational for everyone.

Joe

 

[Griff]

The industry seems to be discount happy, just not very effective

Joe, I completely understand and don't take any comments as confrontational. I hope you will feel the same way. My comments are more about the industry rather than any individuals. I have been holding off any response waiting to see if anyone else wants to comment, but as usual, once you have a recess, most don't want to return.

I came from many years of manufacturing businesses before I got into the floral business. Manufacturing philosophy is geneally about never, never, never discounting any of your business. So you have to understand that because of my background, I too am very much against discounting for any reason, but am fully aware that it does exist in this industry as well as others. However, this industry seems to be discount happy, and yet gets very little return for their buck.

I have always been amazed at the creativity that exists within this industry to take stems of flowers and create a floral arrangement and the computer knowledge that is available to florists to help sell or market their individual capabilities. However, I am continually stupified at the industries inability to grasp the changes that are going on around them and adjust their businesses accordingly. One of these areas is discounting. And yes, this is NOT off the subject of this thread, but really a continuation of it.

An example. A tire store offers a special deal on "four tires for the price of three" . To most everyone, that is a DISCOUNT of 25%. Why would a tire store do that for business he is most likley going to get? Afterall, if you need tires, you need tires, right? Because the owner knows the the vast majority of tire buyers buys two tires at a time. It's budgetary. When additional funds are available, they will replace the other two tires. The tire store owner is just trying to get the increase in sales now. Not take the chance the buyer will buy the other 2 tires somewhere else later.

Florists are already discounting WEDDING business. Look at the thread about Bridal shows. If you pay $250 for a booth and get 3 weddings from the show totaling $1500 bucks, are those wedding not actually DISCOUNTED 17% and we didn't even take into consideration the time and flowers needed for the show. If the labor factor on wedding is 35% <inductry standard> 25% discount only reduces it to about 27%. When a florists accept wire ins, what is the actual labor rate after discount??

Did you not DISCOUNT funeral business when you took those incoming wire orders that you just referred to? Do not some florists grant 20-25% discount to funeral directors for sympathy business. The consumer did not benefit from this discounting. However, a third party did. Either the funeral director or the sending florist. How many times have we heard of florists asking whether they should discount to a local funeral home? If you are the local florist that is not chosen to be the DESIGNATED filler for the funeral home, why doesn't the other florists offer a lesser discount directly to the general public for family work??

The whole point of this is who actually benefits from the discount. The problem I have with the industry is much of the DISCOUNTING is done between florists or within the WS. It is NOT to the benefit of the consumer. It really isn't to the benefit of the receiving florist. A portion of the industry is much against the idea of the consumer ever finding out that such discounting ever goes out, hense the idea of NOT disclosing dirty laundry in public. The obvious reason is THEY benefit from the program and have no desire to see it change! If a florist is going to DISCOUNT, then that florist should get the benefit as well as the consumer.

The original thread is about joining a WS or investing in a website. Even orders generated off the websited are actually discounted. If you pay a monthly fee for hosting, any orders received at really discounted. Orders that are received through a website, florist may refer to this expense as advertising. Orders received through a WS, the expense is referred to commission. I don't care what you call it, but it is a DISCOUNT. The BIG DIFFERENCE is orders received through the website hopefully will keep you in touch with the REAL customer or sender. Orders received through the WS will NEVER keep you in touch with the REAL customer. Any form of discounting wedding work should be for the express benefit of the customer. If you are willing to give a 25% discount on the Brides bouquet for booking the wedding and you get 3 responses, how many more can you get for offering 15% for entire weddings over $750 and 25% off for weddings over $1,000 or $1,200?

If florists are willing to discount, don't you think that the money being spent or give up should benefit the florist more than marginal return on incoming wire business?

Joe, the reason your hair hurts is because your brain cells are trying to function and you are trying to confine their capability. However, as we see no others raising their hands for response, we may have a class of florists where most brain cells are not even functioning.

 

[CHR]

To classify the cost of advertising or any other expense as a 'discount' flies against eveything I ever learned in accounting classes.

Based on the way 'discount' was used in the last post:

If you pay $250 for a booth and get 3 weddings from the show totaling $1500 bucks, are those wedding not actually DISCOUNTED 17% and we didn't even take into consideration the time and flowers needed for the show.

we'd need to call overhead, labor and COGS discounts, too since they are all a cost of doing business..

The booth rental would be classified as an advertising expense which is far different than a discount.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

I have been holding off any response waiting to see if anyone else wants to comment, but as usual, once you have a recess, most don't want to return.

Hey!!!!

However, as we see no others raising their hands for response, we may have a class of florists where most brain cells are not even functioning.

I resemble those remarks!

Florists are already discounting WEDDING business. Look at the thread about Bridal shows. If you pay $250 for a booth and get 3 weddings from the show totaling $1500 bucks, are those wedding not actually DISCOUNTED 17% and we didn't even take into consideration the time and flowers needed for the show.

This is like saying the booth your manufacturing company set up at an industry trade show is discounting all of your products to those prospective buyers. The booth cost, promotional materials go toward the advertising cost in obtaining new clients/customers. By your logic in this example, would any customer obtained through the yellow pages is discounted as well? Or customers who come through Chamber of Commerce membership?

tracy

 

[Joe Mioux]

rate after discount??

Did you not DISCOUNT funeral business when you took those incoming wire orders that you just referred to?

Joe, the reason your hair hurts is because your brain cells are trying to function and you are trying to confine their capability.

Griff: It's Wednesday eveing I alread have 13 wire orders for a funeral in my town. Funeral director gave me the family work. Two day vistitation. I receive 13 more incoming WS orders Thursday.

My competitor in this town has been banned from all WS membership.

I get all the business...

Here is the scenario. I received $1500 worth of wire business in one day. Had I not been in a WS member I would have received nothing. Other than the funeral, there were no other sales of significance.

SO..... I gave $300 away and made a bunch of sales. While I made 30 sales in the 2 -3 days for this funeral, my competitor made two sales.

I submit to you, who made money on Thursday? BTW, being in a small town environment, I know she could not have survived on general daily flower sales.

I await your rebuttal....

Joe

P.S. The brain cell comment is offensive.

 

[hcflorist]

I get all the business...

Here is the scenario. I received $1500 worth of wire business in one day. Had I not been in a WS member I would have received nothing. Other than the funeral, there were no other sales of significance.

You would have received nothing? How do you figure that? If they couldn't place the orders through a wire service, they would have called somebody. And, if I understood you correctly, you're the only WS florist in your area.

You've only got one competitor and he's been banned from all wire services, huh? With a scenario that most florists can only dream of handed to you . . . why would you empower those who compete against you i.e. the wire services? If you don't fill for them, apparently nobody else will if you're telling it straight.

So here's a thought. If you hadn't been gobbling up all of that WS business that nobody else in your area can get, you and your competitor might be sharing it at 100%. And I'll bet you're smart enough to outcompete him and get better than half of it.

But even if you're not, after deducting all of the WS expenses and fees, I'd guess that you'd come out at least even on your net profit on the business given in the example if you two split it down the middle at 100%.

By the way . . . how did ANYBODY get banned from "all of the wire services"? If they can write a good check or buy a money order . . . so far as I've been able to tell in recent and not so recent years . . . they can belong to most ANY wire service. About the only florists who aren't in wire services are those who think it's smarter to NOT be in wire services.

 

[Griff]

Joe said, "One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get this business in your day to day activity". I strongly dsiagree with that reasoning. However, following his line of thinking, if a florist attends a Bridal show, they have gone there for the express purpose of obtaining future wedding orders. You could not have access to this pool of potential Brides had you not paid for a booth and that expense may be classified as advertising <as I stated before> but hopefully to be fair, that cost is directly related to any orders you may obtain. Now you could apply that booth expense against the total wedding sales for the year, but that would really be fair to the real cost of all the other weddings, wouldn't it? Following Joe's original formula with slight modification, Revenue - expense = discounted price. I don't want to get into a discussion on semantics. However, if you join any specific orgainization for the express purpose of getting additonal business, how do you judge if the membership is worth it?? Do you not evalute how much you spent and how much business you got in return?

Some business people will look at any discounted business as an advertising expense. Rather than advertise, they will just extend a discount and use word of mouth to get other customers. I don't buy this idea, but it does show that accounting is not always just black and white.

Another story. Woman comes into your shop and she is the Mother of one of the girls you recently gave a wedding consultation. Mother tells you that they have gone to two other flower shops after yours and all three shops have proposed pretty much the same thing and there is only approximately $100 difference between all three shops. Based on their evaluation, all three shops are deemed highly qualified florists, do quality work, have good reputions and in their estimation, are qualified equal in every way. Therefore, her daughter and her have decided to ask each florist "what is the maximum discount they are willing to offer on the wedding proposal as they presented it. Low bid wins! No, I don't care if it makes your blood boil. In Joe's terms, "One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get the business" and you are not going to get this wedding without a reduced price. Is this a DISCOUNT or an ADVERTISING EXPENSE?

 

[Joe Mioux]

You would have received nothing? How do you figure that? If they couldn't place the orders through a wire service, they would have called somebody. And, if I understood you correctly, you're the only WS florist in your area.

You've only got one competitor and he's been banned from all wire services, huh? With a scenario that most florists can only dream of handed to you . . . why would you empower those who compete against you i.e. the wire services? If you don't fill for them, apparently nobody else will if you're telling it straight.

So here's a thought. If you hadn't been gobbling up all of that WS business that nobody else in your area can get, you and your competitor might be sharing it at 100%. And I'll bet you're smart enough to outcompete him and get better than half of it.

But even if you're not, after deducting all of the WS expenses and fees, I'd guess that you'd come out at least even on your net profit on the business given in the example if you two split it down the middle at 100%.

By the way . . . how did ANYBODY get banned from "all of the wire services"? If they can write a good check or buy a money order . . . so far as I've been able to tell in recent and not so recent years . . . they can belong to most ANY wire service. About the only florists who aren't in wire services are those who think it's smarter to NOT be in wire services.

I didn't say I was the only WS florist serving my town. I said I am the only wire service IN MY town! Main store town, I have two stores.

competitor couldn't pay the WS bills. thus no longer member.

Cheers!

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe said, "One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get this business in your day to day activity". I strongly dsiagree with that reasoning. However, following his line of thinking, if a florist attends a Bridal show, they have gone there for the express purpose of obtaining future wedding orders. You could not have access to this pool of potential Brides had you not paid for a booth and that expense may be classified as advertising <as I stated before> but hopefully to be fair, that cost is directly related to any orders you may obtain. Now you could apply that booth expense against the total wedding sales for the year, but that would really be fair to the real cost of all the other weddings, wouldn't it? Following Joe's original formula with slight modification, Revenue - expense = discounted price. I don't want to get into a discussion on semantics. However, if you join any specific orgainization for the express purpose of getting additonal business, how do you judge if the membership is worth it?? Do you not evalute how much you spent and how much business you got in return?

Some business people will look at any discounted business as an advertising expense. Rather than advertise, they will just extend a discount and use word of mouth to get other customers. I don't buy this idea, but it does show that accounting is not always just black and white.

Another story. Woman comes into your shop and she is the Mother of one of the girls you recently gave a wedding consultation. Mother tells you that they have gone to two other flower shops after yours and all three shops have proposed pretty much the same thing and there is only approximately $100 difference between all three shops. Based on their evaluation, all three shops are deemed highly qualified florists, do quality work, have good reputions and in their estimation, are qualified equal in every way. Therefore, her daughter and her have decided to ask each florist "what is the maximum discount they are willing to offer on the wedding proposal as they presented it. Low bid wins! No, I don't care if it makes your blood boil. In Joe's terms, "One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get the business" and you are not going to get this wedding without a reduced price. Is this a DISCOUNT or an ADVERTISING EXPENSE?

Let me be a bit more clear, It is beyond ______ (fill in the blank) to discount weddings. There is too much labor. Quote your price and if you don't get the wedding make the next sale.

Also, lets be clear i never typed "Revenue - Expense = Discounted business"

 

[Griff]

This is like saying the booth your manufacturing company set up at an industry trade show is discounting all of your products to those prospective buyers. The booth cost, promotional materials go toward the advertising cost in obtaining new clients/customers. By your logic in this example, would any customer obtained through the yellow pages is discounted as well? Or customers who come through Chamber of Commerce membership?

tracy

The price structure of most manufacturers already includes the cost of trade shows. So was the cost of the salesmen's salaries, their company cars, their expense accounts etc. Cost of sales could not or should not exceed 20%. if it did, then someone wasn't going to be with the company much longer.

The pricing structure for florists allows for 10% total advertising. That includes yellow page, Bridal shows, direct mail and anything you wish. As the owner, you can spend it anyway you wish, but at the end of the year, total advertising expense hopefully will not exceed that 10%.

 

[CHR]

Joe said, Therefore, her daughter and her have decided to ask each florist "what is the maximum discount they are willing to offer on the wedding proposal as they presented it. Low bid wins! No, I don't care if it makes your blood boil. In Joe's terms, "One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get the business" and you are not going to get this wedding without a reduced price. Is this a DISCOUNT or an ADVERTISING EXPENSE?

Discounting? On a $1000 order?

Any Mother that plays that game with our business usually gets the "Which which item would you like to omit?" question. We price fairly from the start and don't haggle. (We also do a good job of qualifying brides before we meet with them to see if they're a good fit.)

I've never seen a decent budget bride and her Mom choose a florist solely based on price in my 30+ years so the "$100 question" looks like as red herring.

Griff - I go back to capacity. If it's slow and a shop can accommodate wire-ins or discounts to fill capacity - fine. If it's prime-time season (wedding, holiday or what-ever) and the discounted orders consume limited capacity, then accepting them is crazy.

I call that pragmatism.

 

[Griff]

Griff:

P.S. The brain cell comment is offensive.

As I said Joe, it wasn't meant as anything personnal. It was just a joke.

I'm glad you had a great couple of business days. I really mean that. We look at our businesses from two completely different angles. I'm not interested in how many orders I generate per day, but rather how much profit is generated. I can't pay my bills on sales. I can only pay them from profit on sales. I can't do that on discounted business. There is a new florist in my town and I will let him take as much WS business as they want. The last two that started up in South Elgin lasted less than two years each with the help of the WS. This new guy's paying $2500 a month for rent. How much discounted business do you have to handle to pay those EXPENSES, huh? Like I said, Joe, if your business can handle sales which are discounted, then great for them. Most companies today, however, can't!

 

[Eric S]

There is a new florist in my town and I will let him take as much WS business as they want.

That is so right. Griff you know that they can have it all. I have a new florist across the street from me and the TF sticker went up then the FTD and now the bloomnet.

We will see how long they will last. They opened for business May 1st so lets see if they can do it.

 

[goldfish]

Another story. Woman comes into your shop and she is the Mother of one of the girls you recently gave a wedding consultation. Mother tells you that they have gone to two other flower shops after yours and all three shops have proposed pretty much the same thing and there is only approximately $100 difference between all three shops. Based on their evaluation, all three shops are deemed highly qualified florists, do quality work, have good reputions and in their estimation, are qualified equal in every way. Therefore, her daughter and her have decided to ask each florist "what is the maximum discount they are willing to offer on the wedding proposal as they presented it. Low bid wins! No, I don't care if it makes your blood boil. In Joe's terms, "One should accept or agree to discounted business if you would not normally get the business" and you are not going to get this wedding without a reduced price. Is this a DISCOUNT or an ADVERTISING EXPENSE?

That's discount.

Sorry to butt-in, but... If your point is to provide a contradictory example to Mr Mioux's statement - "One should accept... discounted business if...", he already said that discounting a wedding makes no sense. Clearly, his position is that some discount business makes sense while other possible discount business doesn't make sense. He takes a case-by-case pragmatic approach based on his way of number crunching; that's what he is saying and he's been pretty consistent with that.

I don't want to put my words into your mouth, so please correct me if I'm mistaken, Mr Griff. Your position differs from Mr Mioux's in that you hardly see such a case that warrants discounting, in WS businesses in particular. You are much more interested in keeping the percentage of profit margin high, rather than potentially increasing the sales volume by offering a discount. Your stance, just like Mr Mioux's, is based on years of successful business experience.

You also pointed out some time ago that there is a difference between newly started florists and well-established, x-th-generation florists like Mr Mioux's and other big shots in FC. Your contention was that, while acknowledging that taking discount orders might make sense in a well-established store, it is a risky strategy for a florist who is starting now. I thought that was a very good point.:thumbsup Just trying to get back to the issue, take it easy folks...:hug:

 

[Griff]

Yes, Goldfish, that pretty well covers it. The original question was why are florists willing to discount 20 orders at $50 each on incoming wires and not discount a $1,000 wedding to a local customer? Joe takes the position that some orders have to be discounted to be gotten and I question the fact of what you are getting for that discount. Cathy feels that discounting is acceptable if you have the excess capacity to handle it. I'd even question that.

I have tried to create a framework around each of the examples I'm using to put it into a similiar context with the discount on incoming wire orders. The imaginary Mother of the Bride I'm using is merely looking for a quantity discount on the volumn of business they require. I made this one easy. I didn't tell you she required 25% so you could offer whatever you wished. Remember, if you don't accept her terms, she could take her business down the street to your competition. And isn't that the same concern that florists reveal on incoming orders - if I don't take the order, my competition will.

Off the top of my head, I can think of least 4 reasons why extending a discount on this wedding has ADVANTAGES to the florist over a similiar amount of dollar value incoming wire orders. I named one of them. Two deliveries for the wedding <church and reception> as versus 20 separate deliveries for the wire orders. Can anyone think of others?

So, Goldfish, which would you take? The wedding or the 20 orders?

 

[prestonway]

But the point is....

Cathy feels that discounting is acceptable if you have the excess capacity to handle it. I'd even question that.

Each business decision must be considered on its own merits.

That's why the critical issue in these discussions is excess capacity. No need to question it...in the original case I put forward it was a fact.

My premise was that there is excess design capacity...in a tight labor market the designer is kept on full-time, but doing make-work projects & not designing over the slow periods. Her labor is a fixed cost.

Any flowers, whether you have them in stock or have to bring them in, are covered in your cost of goods.

I love the management accounting side of business, in that I am number crunching for my business needs, and not the needs of the IRS or Canada Customs & Revenue.

As such, if I fudge the numbers, I'm only lying to myself.

Cost/benefit analysis is simply that. If an individual business decision has a positive effect on my contribution margin, it should be pursued. PERIOD.

Sorry Griff, but I'd rather cover my fixed costs on a discounted wire order than have my full-time designer fill water tubes, IF IT PROVIDES A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION MARGIN!

You've also mentioned the uncertainties of what incoming wire orders will be. But there are uncertainties in local business as well. So how do you know for certain what the revenues will be? YOU DON'T!

But then again, for a new shop you don't have any customer base from any of the revenue streams (incoming, outgoing, or local).

In each case, you are doing projections.

You are always dealing with uncertainty, whether you are a new or existing business.

That's why you do three different scenarios, HIGH, LOW, & BREAK-EVEN.

The HIGH number is calculated based on a perfect world...the LOW number is calculated based on everything screwing up...and the BREAK-EVEN number where the contribution margin is zero.

For example, if the HIGH margin is $1000, the LOW number is $200, and the BREAK-EVEN is $100...would you pursue this opportunity?

Of course you would, because even if everything screws up you are still exceeding your break-even point.

This thread has been rife with "what ifs". What if I have to bring in extra flowers to fill an order, and have to pitch 20% of the balance? What if I have to increase my labor hours? What if I offer discounts on weddings?

REMEMBER THE FORMULA....REVENUE - VARIABLE COSTS = CONTRIBUTION MARGIN

Throw whatever you want into the equation, because you're doing this for your purposes. There is no need to pad the numbers or cheat to make it look good. For heaven's sake, you're only lying to yourself!

There is no right or wrong answer...only the answer where your decision makes sound business sense! IT'S THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS THAT MATTERS...or is there a process at all?

Extra flowers are a variable (cost of goods sold). Extra labor is a variable cost. Discounts, advertising or whatever you want to call it, is a variable cost. Factor all the "what ifs" you want into the equation.

The bottom line is if your analysis realistically provides a positive contribution margin it should be pursued.

In other words, ANY BUSINESS DECISION WHICH HELPS TO COVER FIXED COSTS SHOULD BE PURSUED.

Conversely, the more costs which you can keep variable and not fixed, the better. WHY?

Let me give you an example...rent is $2000/month FIXED. Instead, let's say we have the option of making rent a VARIABLE cost dependent on revenues. In my utopian world, rent would be 10% of revenues, and I only had sales of $5000 in June. My rent would be $500. SWEET!!!

So what does this mean for an average flower shop? Variable good...fixed bad.

Labor? Make it as variable as you can. Avoid full-time employees.

Standing orders for flowers? Only if you can sell every stem of every shipment, or you are getting such a great price that you don't mind pitching 20% each week and still make a profit.

Delivery trucks vs. a delivery service? Do the numbers, but chances are maybe a service could be better.

Web site vs. wire service, or both, or neither? Do your realistic projections result in a positive contribution margin?

How many of us make decisions without a rational basis? Even in this thread, the experts have expounded on "this is the way to do it", without any convincing argument as to WHY!

Sure a web site MAY make money. Maybe even a wire service. BUT DO ANY OF US DO FINANCIAL ANALYSIS BEFORE MAKING A DECISION & SPENDING A GOBFUL OF MONEY?

...I doubt it.

But your big competition is doing financial projections all day...every day. They devote entire departments to these exercises.

To compete, you have to act like the big boys.

THESE ARE THE RATIONAL DECISION MAKING PROCESSES THAT EACH OF US MUST DO ON A REGULAR BASIS TO SURVIVE.

What I have found especially insightful on this thread is that many regular contributors have chosen not to post, yet contribute to virtually every thread out there. We are supposedly the FWAC.

Many are design savvy. A few are tech savvy. Some are new, some are multi-generational. But very few have contributed to this fascinating thread.

IN TODAY'S SURVIVAL MODE, IS IT BUSINESS SKILL OR LUCK THAT WILL DETERMINE THE WINNERS & LOSERS?

When it comes to running a business do all of us have the "capacity" to do so?

Opinions vary (thx Jon)

 

[BOSS]

BUT DO ANY OF US DO FINANCIAL ANALYSIS BEFORE MAKING A DECISION & SPENDING A GOBFUL OF MONEY?

...I doubt it.

But your big competition is doing financial projections all day...every day. They devote entire departments to these exercises.

So do I, I have Excel workbooks that generate real time dollar availability for my biz, and work it daily.

What I have found especially insightful on this thread is that many regular contributors have chosen not to post, yet contribute to virtually every thread out there. We are supposedly the FWAC.

Many are design savvy. A few are tech savvy. Some are new, some are multi-generational. But very few have contributed to this fascinating thread.

For me, I have basically stayed out of this one, simply because it seems like an old subject, that of 20% more/less discounting of business. Like you said, each business must decide for themselves, and nothing I or anyone else will say on this topic, will change anyone elses mind(maybe we've been at it too long)

IN TODAY'S SURVIVAL MODE, IS IT BUSINESS SKILL OR LUCK THAT WILL DETERMINE THE WINNERS & LOSERS?

I'd say skill, with a little bit of "educated luck" thrown in.....

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Show me a florist who solicits incoming wire orders to fill excess capacity,
...and I’ll show you a florist on a downhill slide.

I agree with Griff on this topic!

By the way, what is the florist supposed to do during Christmas, Valentine’s Day, and Mother’s Day when there is no excess capacity, and the wire orders are flowing in heavy? …reject?



RC in Cincinnati and Dayton

 

[goldfish]

So, Goldfish, which would you take? The wedding or the 20 orders?

Since we are new and are actively trying to build a reputation for weddings, we will almost certainly take a discount wedding order as long as it breaks even (or maybe even at a slight loss).

I must note that, in this particular decision, I am not simply comparing the dollar amounts left-over after the discounts. I am comparing the intangible benefits of getting wedding orders against whatever little money I would earn by filling incoming orders. At this point of time, the former outweigh the latter.

When we ever became a well-known wedding florist, however, I seriously doubt I would take any discount wedding orders, though. Once you are established, the need to build a reputation as a wedding florist has comparatively diminished. That's probably the situations of CHR and Joe.