What does having a wire service have to do with having skilled designers?

[duanermb]

I keep reading and reading and reading about wire services, designer cost, etc etc etc.

I also keep hearing that if you have your own designs, go wire service free, and be unique, you will succeed.

Ok. So, what do the two have to do with each other? Nothing.

You can teach anyone to fill the orders for the "Proven Best Sellers" in about 5 minutes. This is why we tout ourselves as Florists, and differentiators.

So... Why is it such a burdon to fill for the wires? A large shop should be able to hire unskilled labor to fill OG/WS orders.

Am I wrong here or what?

We keep talking about 3 different segments of the floral industry in the same context, and it's driving me insane.

(Fed up in Wpg)

 

[concord]

One point is that most shops are not large enough to have cheap design labor on hand just to fill OG orders. Another point is that most OG orders are not profitable even when filled by minimum wage earners and the third point is that keeping the large hard goods inventory of WS containers in order to fill the WS specials is another profit killer.

 

[RWK]

Duane - Perhaps I can help to answer that. Back in the wire service heyday, when the florist and the wire service worked hand-in-hand, perhaps not so much today, but in the past, it was necessary to have designer who had basic skills at least.

The wire services would send routine 'test orders' of branded designs. The recipient was previously contacted by the wire service and asked to rate the recieved design, take pictures of it, and send the info to the wire service. If there was a problem, it would be addressed, usually with a penalty of some type.

Also, they had a team of florists who were responsible for periodically selecting, grading, and testing of member shop quality.

In fact, FTD had in place a designer certification program......called the 'Designer Club'. That has probably been abandoned now for many years. I underwent the Master level testing and I did earn the 'FTD Designer Club - Master level designer' certification.

Quality of the wire service product meant more then than it does now. Hope that helps to answer your question Duane.



Let me add this: ( and I hope some of the WS big-wigs are reading this )

When I see the state of the wire service and the way they choose to operate.......That's why in my resume.....I DO NOT LIST THAT CERTIFICATION. When I am attending a floral industry event......I CHOOSE TO NOT WEAR THAT PIN.
I was at one time proud to have earned that title, but now.......I choose to ignore it as I feel they have in truth abandoned the industry.

 

[BOSS]

Absolutely nothing......

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Absolutely nothing......

Duane...maybe what we SHOULD be asking, is what use is it worrying??...wire services NO LONGER "reflect" the concerns of the REAL FLORIST, thus are losing any "status" in the relationship between floral retailers, and reality

 

[CHR]

You can teach anyone to fill the orders for the "Proven Best Sellers" in about 5 minutes. This is why we tout ourselves as Florists, and differentiators.

So... Why is it such a burdon to fill for the wires? A large shop should be able to hire unskilled labor to fill OG/WS orders.

You really cannot teach 'anyone to to fill "Proven Best Sellers" in 5 minutes'. There's more to design than just poking the flowers into the container. Even a dozen roses, which should be fairly simple, can look dreadful without repetition and practice. Sure, all the components are there, but the aesthetic can often seriously lack appeal. And the poor technique from beginners/untrained staffers often causes the flowers to perform poorly and wither prematurely.

If OG orders came in from a very limited menu (ala McDonalds), a florist could indeed have a dedicated production staff to fill them - but incoming orders are more likely 'all over the map' in terms of both content (products needed) and style and are fairly unpredictable (in terms of projecting volume) outside of major holidays (when the volume makes production necessary and desirable).

As you have read here, to get high incoming volumes, florists also need to buy it these days (paying additional fees for Premium memberships or buying increasing amounts of products or services from the WS.)

More efficient and successful in terms of profits and quality control would be for a company to created their own menu based on the flowers they wish to promote (ala Oberers). This way they drive their own sales to their own customers with flowers they have in stock.

WS LFCs are dedicated production facilities and you see them decreasing in numbers - partly due to the level of complaints they've generated and partly due to the WSs wishing to spread the incomings around to get more membership dollars.

I 'get' what you are saying, yet the actual application of using 'untrained designers' isn't as easy at it sounds.

You are indeed right about different segments, though. Problem is, most shops want to serve them all - yet this is akin to a restaurant wanting to be a successful combination of a supermarket (selling raw product) a McDonald's and a fine dining establishment. Can't think of a restaurant that could succeed with that mix, and sellers of flowers are no different.

 

[Rhonda]

I have brought in part timers on holidays to do WS specials. Let me tell you, you can not bring in someone who has no clue. We had them simply green Christmas....stressed not to overgreen. We spent more time pulling out greens so there was room for the flowers and many had to be re oasised due to holes.
As far as cookie cutter cubes? Nope, you have to know mechanics to get them to stay in place, just like the other thread on delivering cubes.
Everyone needs training and training takes hours/labor paid hours. Most small shops can't afford to waste money on "training" for two weeks worth of work at a holiday.

 

[Sprout]

You are indeed right about different segments, though. Problem is, most shops want to serve them all - yet this is akin to a restaurant wanting to be a successful combination of a supermarket (selling raw product) a McDonald's and a fine dining establishment. Can't think of a restaurant that could succeed with that mix, and sellers of flowers are no different.

You forgot caterer!

Supermarket, fast food, fine dining, and caterer.

This is the example I use all the time to describe what people expect us to be, and I'm not even in a wire service!

 

[RWK]

As far as trained designers.....the wire services used to test how well you were able to 'copy' a design from an illustration.

As a part of the new CFD program being unveiled by AIFD.....the copying of an illustrated design will be a part of the overall examination.

 

[Doug Munro]

Its no wonder we have issues

I can't count the number of wire orders we have sent out to "florists" where the end result looked like a trained monkey or my twelve year old son had designed it blindfolded!

How do I know? In many cases the sending customer has been so irate that they have has the delivered product photographed and sent a picture (sometimes several) of the mess that the recipient received.

Now we have a thread discussing whether or not fully trained people are actually required to fill these orders.

Thank God we are not in the restaurant business, otherwise the janitor would be cooking the orders for delivery and the cook would be saving his talents for customers dining in!

There should be NOTHING that leaves anyone's shop (discounted product, wire ins, whatever) that is not up to the highest standards possible. If your not happy with the price being paid DO NOT take the order.

Remember, the recipient doesn't know or care where the order originated or what you get paid for it and they are a potential customer that will be judging your shops work. As well another business (the sending shop) has placed their faith in you and that you will fill the order in a way that reflects positively on them with their customer (the sender)

Next we will be discussing the merits of using "OLD Flowers" in funerals, as they only have to "last a day or so". Wait a second, a lot of shops are already doing that and have been doing so for years. Funny enough the funeral flower business isn't what it used to be, but we blame that issue on "in lieu of" rather than pinning it on the wire services and OG's like every other industry problem lately.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

I keep reading and reading and reading about wire services, designer cost, etc etc etc.

I also keep hearing that if you have your own designs, go wire service free, and be unique, you will succeed.

Ok. So, what do the two have to do with each other? Nothing.

You can teach anyone to fill the orders for the "Proven Best Sellers" in about 5 minutes. This is why we tout ourselves as Florists, and differentiators.

So... Why is it such a burdon to fill for the wires? A large shop should be able to hire unskilled labor to fill OG/WS orders.

Am I wrong here or what?

We keep talking about 3 different segments of the floral industry in the same context, and it's driving me insane.

(Fed up in Wpg)

I guess I am having a blonde moment. I don't understand what your saying or asking??

 

[Johan]

There should be NOTHING that leaves anyone's shop (discounted product, wire ins, whatever) that is not up to the highest standards possible. If your not happy with the price being paid DO NOT take the order.

Remember, the recipient doesn't know or care where the order originated or what you get paid for it and they are a potential customer that will be judging your shops work. As well another business (the sending shop) has placed their faith in you and that you will fill the order in a way that reflects positively on them with their customer (the sender)

Next we will be discussing the merits of using "OLD Flowers" in funerals, as they only have to "last a day or so". Wait a second, a lot of shops are already doing that and have been doing so for years. Funny enough the funeral flower business isn't what it used to be, but we blame that issue on "in lieu of" rather than pinning it on the wire services and OG's like every other industry problem lately.

Doug you are so right. I couldn't allow anything to leave my shop with my name on it without it been up to standard. If I'm not happy with an order that comes in I won't fill it, simple. If I don't stock a particular item but are happy to do my own thing on similar lines, I'll let the other florist member know. It doesn't make good business sense to get the unskilled employees to just work on the WS orders, that is if you can afford to just have staff for that job.
And please don't get me started on poor quality funeral work. I have had brides book with me on the back of the quality of my funeral work. I'm very proud of this.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

I consider my shop a high volume shop, but I could not have enough "WS cookie cutter" type arr's to warrant this person working even 8 hrs per week. There are so many different ones, I would never be able to predict them. IMO many of them are much harder to teach than a traditional funeral basket, vase arr or bubble bowl/cube. Truthfully, we get more funeral work and mixed vases through TF than we do cubes and keepsake container items.

I could have an apprentice to do our monthly feature b/c we sell 10+ of these per day. Plus they could be taught fruit baskets, blooming plant baskets, rose arr's and some regular front case inventory arr's that are sold in more of a high volume than "WS cookie cutters". What we do try and do is do a "round" of 12-15 cookie cutter arr's twice a week (less in the summer). Arr's like be happy, b-day celebration, just ducky, etc. This takes 60-90 minutes; far from a position for one apprentice.

That would be a VERY WS incoming heavy florist that could dedicate these arr's to one "arranger/apprentuce".

In our case we do higher these people. They call themselves "designers" but they are "arrangers" who can also sell in the store or over the phone.

 

[duanermb]

Relax Doug.
Sometimes stuff comes out as a rant.

What I mean here, is that there is a massive difference between "Floral Design", and pre-designed "Order Construction".

Sometimes, we are discussing several very different segments of the industry, often in the same context, and it is difficult to figure out exactly which one is being discussed. There are many different kinds of florists here, and many different ways to run a shop.

Obviously you CAN'T train someone to build orders in 5 minutes, but it is possible to develop someone into the role without formal training for much cheaper. I did say the larger shops should be able to do it.

Either way, I agree, nothing should leave the shop looking crappy. That's bad ownership overall.

I didn't mean to offend anyone or downgrade "Designers" or the design process, just finding confusion in these posts with regards to design/designers.

 

[RWK]

Speaking for myself Duane - I took no offense at your question. I think I understood the viewpoint you were asking from. I'll have to elaborate later though as I am headed out for opening reception at the South Carolina Florists Association's Annual convention.

 

[Joe Mioux]

You are indeed right about different segments, though. Problem is, most shops want to serve them all - yet this is akin to a restaurant wanting to be a successful combination of a supermarket (selling raw product) a McDonald's and a fine dining establishment. Can't think of a restaurant that could succeed with that mix, and sellers of flowers are no different.

The difference between your restaurant analogy and flower shops is that people eat several times a day, which allows for a great supply of food outlets, which in turn allows for niche markets, i.e. McDonald's, hardees, a local diner and a fine restaurant.

however, people do not buy flowers several times a day, therefore our market as a percent of per capita income/day is much much smaller than the restaurant's per capita income-consumption/day numbers.

i.e. The food pie is a lot larger than the flower pie.

So, in order for many shops, especially small town, mid size city florists to stay in business, we have to cater to a broader market of floral tastes.

and since my family enjoys their food, which is made possible by my diverse selection of floral designs, they approve of my more generalized approach to floral designs.

joe

 

[goldfish]

You can teach anyone to fill the orders for the "Proven Best Sellers" in about 5 minutes.

Perhaps with silk flowers with dry oasis, but with fresh flowers, no chance. My designer can make FTD's stunning beauty in perhaps 2-3 min. If I do, it would take over 30 min and a whole bunch (literally) of wasted stems. The stems just do not stay the way I want them to be.

 

[goldfish]

You really cannot teach 'anyone to to fill "Proven Best Sellers" in 5 minutes'. There's more to design than just poking the flowers into the container. Even a dozen roses, which should be fairly simple, can look dreadful without repetition and practice. Sure, all the components are there, but the aesthetic can often seriously lack appeal. And the poor technique from beginners/untrained staffers often causes the flowers to perform poorly and wither prematurely.

Sorry I missed this post, before I posted mine. I completely agree.

 

[BOSS]

Perhaps with silk flowers with dry oasis, but with fresh flowers, no chance. My designer can make FTD's stunning beauty in perhaps 2-3 min. If I do, it would take over 30 min and a whole bunch (literally) of wasted stems. The stems just do not stay the way I want them to be.

You and Jon skipped class the same days at design school didn't you... :tongue

 

[goldfish]

You and Jon skipped class the same days at design school didn't you... :tongue

Since you mentioned it... I've never learned flower design, but when I was a kid, I learned painting for 5 years. My uncle was a high-school art teacher and he taught me. So I know some basics, even though I'm not an "artist."

Thanks to this experience, at least I can tell my flower design is awful. The most difficult part for me is that I can't bend the stems, so I can't easily correct it when the stem placement and angle look odd to my eyes.

A good, experienced designer can put a stem into the right spot at a correct angle without even thinking. That requires a lot of practice and talent. I have neither.

Some people seem to look down on traditional flower designs, but I wonder if they have even tried making one of those. They are not easy to make.

When an amateur like myself tried to make one, it always ends up looking too flat, no depth or flow in it. Hard to explain what is wrong, but it always looks odd and boring.

I find it easier to make 'tight and compact' designs, Martha type. Airy, taller designs are more difficult for me.

Sorry to hijack the thread.