Willingness to fill incoming orders

[Joe Mioux]

So what does everyone feel is a "safe" profitable percentage of wire in biz? I have always felt my goal is no more than 20%.

heather, we had a discussion about this several months - maybe a year ago.

At that time, most shop owners agreed that no more than 20 pct of GS should come from WS business. I think 10-15 pct was a more comfortable number. By comfortable I mean there is definitely no need for additional labor.

 

[TOTO]

All in the question of a FAIR BALANCE of TRADE JB

Aren't you completely ignoring monies made from outgoing? That has to factor in there somewhere - all the burden can't be put incoming unless a shop has zero outgoing.

YES, I am IGNORING the PROFITS which we made on the outgoing side of the WS order spectrum.

In my book, outgoing and the Earned Commissions along with our $ervice charges, are a separate and distinct DEPARTMENT on my spreadsheet.

And the thought of using those profits to subsize the losses incurred at the filling side, just goes against my grain.

All things being equal, and if it was just a fair and balanced trade of orders from one florist to another, and vice versa, I have no problem either PAYING or COLLECTING the 20% EARNED SENDING COMMISSIONS.

The SPOILERS in what used to be considered a reasonable arrangement in the out-of-area transfer of orders between REAL FLORISTS are the ORDER GATHERERS, the DOT.CONS, and now the very Wire Services, who perport to be our partners, but morphed into our COMPETITORS.

They are the ones who expect the FILLING FLORISTS to fill their HIGHLY DISCOUNTED ORDERS by subsizing the losses they incur on the FILLING SIDE from the profits we earned at the SENDING SIDE.

After which, they charge their florists HIGHER DUES, FEES, and other numerous ancillary charges to errode their margins even further.

When a MIDDLEMAN SKIMMER, who never has to fill a discounted order, earns all of the big money at the sending side, and without having to do any of the DOO, they are THE CULPRITS which destroyed the old scale of FAIR and BALANCED and EBB and FLOW.

On a $75 outgoing, they glean $15 right off the bat, plus a $ervice charge of $12.99 plus a rebate of $6 for a total skim of $33.99. If they are a WS DOT.CON, add another 7% to their wallets.

At the filling side, the $75 turns into $54.75 less the reverse the order transmission fee of another $1.25 for a net to florist of $53.50.

Deduct the cost of delivery at $8.00, and they're down to $45.50.

Working with a gross of $65 for the product (having deducted $10 from the $75 for delivery, albeit in WS WAMPUM, thus netting only $7.10), their cogs is 30% (-$19.50) and their COL is 20% (-$13.00), for a total cost of $33.75, leaving them a NET PROFIT of $11.75, right?

Well, not really, since one then has to factor in the total of that florists annual costs associated with belonging to that Wire Service.

For example, if a shop is paying a WS $4,000.00 per year and they are filling $50,000.00 in GROSS INCOMING, their added (hidden) incoming order acquistion charges is less another 8% in real dollars.

Which then means, the on-the-surface NET PROFIT of $11.75 has an additional acquistion charge of less another (-$6.00) bringing the net down to a hefty $5.75, and we didn't even factor in Operating Expenses.

Any shop paying more while getting less, winds up in LOSS category.

And so, it's GOOD TO BE A DOT.CON MIDDLEMAN SKIMMER, since they made $40.00 and the DOO-ER of DA DOO made $5.75 on a $75 order, if they were lucky.

Sure, one could COST SHIFT 50% of the WS's annual $4K costs over to the sending side of the spreadsheet, but the only people I see benefiting from that idea, would be DA MIDDLEMAN SKIMMERS and the WS's who enable them, or in fact, ARE THEM!

They would suggest all their florists do just that, since after all, IT'S THE ONLY FAIR WAY to look at the BIGGER PICTURE.

Besides, it would only be COMING FROM YOUR PROFITS, NOT THEIRS, and so, IT'S ALL GOOD!
lol

 

[bloomz]

Well to be brief - I have a floral consultant, that I believe, that can show me figures that say I should be filling more incoming orders, since I care more about profitablity and longevity than futile principles.

You remember well - I once led the "fight" to "stop them".

Put up my soap box when nothing changed.

My business is not so flush I can ignore contribution margins any more, especially right now, and they do exist. There is extra money to be made on filling orders even at a discount that I don't make if I turn my back on them like I have for a long time. If there's enough money in it to make a couple bucks and its not skimmed we will be filling.

And I choose not to ignore outgoing profits when I factor expenses, as they are a package.

But we've been over this a thousand times now.

I just found it interesting that willingness to fill incoming is drastically increasing and know it rains on the anti wire service things are changing parade up in here....

sorry.....

 

[Joe Mioux]

]YES, I am IGNORING the PROFITS which we made on the outgoing side of the WS order spectrum.

In my book, outgoing and the Earned Commissions along with our $ervice charges, are a separate and distinct DEPARTMENT on my spreadsheet.

And the thought of using those profits to subsize the losses incurred at the filling side, just goes against my grain.

Here is where flower shops are no different from OG's. You accept outgoing orders and then send them on to someother flower shop and expect them to fill YOUR discounted order.

All things being equal, and if it was just a fair and balanced trade of orders from one florist to another, and vice versa, I have no problem either PAYING or COLLECTING the 20% EARNED SENDING COMMISSIONS.

However, you choose to play on an unequal playing field. You know how to get your outgoing orders filled, but few florists have the opportunity to send YOU discounted incoming orders.

When a MIDDLEMAN SKIMMER, who never has to fill a discounted order, earns all of the big money at the sending side, and without having to do any of the DOO, they are THE CULPRITS which destroyed the old scale of FAIR and BALANCED and EBB and FLOW.

Just like what you do now. You take all the benefit without the reciprocal discounted order. Yea I am sure you get some incoming from flower shops who know you, but you still don't belong to a national database where all flower shops have equal access to your shop's product.

a $75 outgoing, they glean $15 right off the bat, plus a $ervice charge of $12.99 plus a rebate of $6 for a total skim of $33.99. If they are a WS DOT.CON, add another 7% to their wallets.

At the filling side, the $75 turns into $54.75 less the reverse the order transmission fee of another $1.25 for a net to florist of $53.50.

Deduct the cost of delivery at $8.00, and they're down to $45.50.

Working with a gross of $65 for the product (having deducted $10 from the $75 for delivery, albeit in WS WAMPUM, thus netting only $7.10), their cogs is 30% (-$19.50) and their COL is 20% (-$13.00), for a total cost of $33.75, leaving them a NET PROFIT of $11.75, right?

Not NET Profit.... this is your contribution margin. Here is where you and all flower shop owners who have your mindset about WS's fail. You either earn the $11.75 Contribution Margin or you don't. That money will get used to help contribute paying for your fixed expenses. You will incur those fixed expenses irregardless of whether or not you accept that discounted order.

Well , not really, since one then has to factor in the total of that florists annual costs associated with belonging to that Wire Service.

For example, if a shop is paying a WS $4,000.00 per year and they are filling $50,000.00 in GROSS INCOMING, their added (hidden) incoming order acquistion charges is less another 8% in real dollars.

Which then means, the on-the-surface NET PROFIT of $11.75 has an additional acquistion charge of less another (-$6.00) bringing the net down to a hefty $5.75, and we didn't even factor in Operating Expenses.

Any shop paying more while getting less, winds up in LOSS category.

this is incorrect. your $5.75 will contribute to fixed expense payments. Lets say you receive 1000 of those orders which then generates a CM of $5.75. That $5,750 can be used to pay your utilities, such as your heating and air conditioning for the year.

That money gets used to pay your fixed expenses, expenses that you are going to have irregardless of whether you accept WS business or not.

Had you not accepted those extra orders you would have had to pay your Heating and AC from other revenue which would cause your net profit to be lower.

I just used the fixed expense of heating and ac as an example.

And so, it's GOOD TO BE A DOT.CON MIDDLEMAN SKIMMER, since they made $40.00 and the DOO-ER of DA DOO made $5.75 on a $75 order, if they were lucky.

Sure, one could COST SHIFT 50% of the WS's annual $4K costs over to the sending side of the spreadsheet, but the only people I see benefiting from that idea, would be DA MIDDLEMAN SKIMMERS and the WS's who enable them, or in fact, ARE THEM!

They would suggest all their florists do just that, since after all, IT'S THE ONLY FAIR WAY to look at the BIGGER PICTURE.

Besides, it would only be COMING FROM YOUR PROFITS, NOT THEIRS, and so, IT'S ALL GOOD!
lol

You will drive yourself crazy worrying what the other guy earns on sales. All we can do is control our own activity, whenever I wholesale a plant where I might earn a couple dollars, I don't worry - can't worry or concern myself - if that wholesaler or retail shop is actually earning a higher return on the product I sold him than I earn on that product.

Joe

 

[CHR]

I think maybe I should quit with the emotional/pride stuff and take whatever order I an make a buck on.

I'd hate to pride myself into obscurity.

Why would a florist declining to fill an incoming order be deemed 'emotional/prideful'? There are myriad reasons why it does not make sense to accept an incoming order, including:

- over-promised product
- undersold price on product or delivery
- sender is a known skimmer
- sender is famous for claiming non-delivery months after the order is placed
- you don't have the product in stock and the cost of purchasing it will be more than than the net value of the order.

That's not emotion, it's just good business.

So you are advocating eliminate 10 pct of total business (just a number for illustration -- my incoming is below that number) and discount the remaining 90 pct of that business by 25 pct?

Of course not. What I'm saying is that national brands and even smaller OGs are running ad campaigns with large discounts and/or incentives.

A florist can wait for the Merc or Dove to crank out orders (at a more than 30% discount to them) or actively offer incentives to promote shoppers buy from them direct. I don't see too many stores doing that.

I would not recommend a 25% discount on fresh designs since they have to be manufactured. OTOH, plants or giftware - already in stock - could make sense at that discount level.

The idea is to encourage shops to get out there and compete and not just wait and take anything spit out by a machine.

Some shops see their retail business declining, get worried, and decide they need to stay busy by filling more incoming wires.

In my experience many shops had a local retail business that was more profitable than they realized subsidizing a wire fulfillment business that was less profitable than they realized - they were using the profits from the local retail business to offset the losses from belonging to wire services and filling those orders.

Glad I'm not the only person seeing that. Well said, Mark. Thanks for your excellent post.

Either way, business WILL NOT be as usual, coming out the other end, and there ARE those of us, that are pretty much ready to hang it up, as soon as we can, and THAT will have the greatest impact on our industry....the "glue" so to speak.

There ARE some great young "kids" in this industry, BUT, way too few, to have in the florist industry, to help reshape it's future.

Some of the 'kids' are out there promoting their companies in social media and by networking heavily both locally and online. They are not WS-centric. They run out of warehouse studios and have little interest in buying into the whole WS package. And some are doing quite well.....

I just found it interesting that willingness to fill incoming is drastically increasing and know it rains on the anti wire service things are changing parade up in here

And this makes you happy?

 

[goldfish]

Mark, I nominate your post for the Best Post of the Year award.

I'm not sure whether shops get in trouble because they join multiple services or join multiple services because they are in trouble. It's probably a little of both.

Joining multiple WS's, by itself, cannot cause a trouble. It causes a trouble when the owner isn't analyzing the numbers carefully. As I'm sure you know (and you are too nice to say it), most florist owners are not willing to crunch numbers.

Note that I said "not willing to", not "not capable of." Number-crunching of WS financials are not difficult. We aren't talking about integrals and differentials here.

At the end of the day, you should drop WS when it becomes unprofitable. You could keep it, as long as it stays profitable.

What I found the most troubling is that some florists whose financials I've looked into, they aren't tracking costs.

They would say their COGS is 33%, just because their flowers are 3 times the cost. Other things are "negligible" etc. It's a pretty good bet that many troubling florists' COGS are 45-50%.

Now that will wipe out all the potential profits from incoming orders.

They will eventually realize they aren't making money. They try to get more incoming orders. When they can't get what they want from WS, they get angry, quit, and rant.

A vicious cycle.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Why would a florist declining to fill an incoming order be deemed 'emotional/prideful'? There are myriad reasons why it does not make sense to accept an incoming order, including:

- over-promised product
- undersold price on product or delivery
- sender is a known skimmer
- sender is famous for claiming non-delivery months after the order is placed
- you don't have the product in stock and the cost of purchasing it will be more than than the net value of the order.

That's not emotion, it's just good business.

Cathy, you are mixing to different issues. One is the WS free issue and the other is Declining unprofitable incoming. If the order doesn't make financial sense then yes, cancel or forward the order.

Of course not. What I'm saying is that national brands and even smaller OGs are running ad campaigns with large discounts and/or incentives.

A florist can wait for the Merc or Dove to crank out orders (at a more than 30% discount to them) or actively offer incentives to promote shoppers buy from them direct. I don't see too many stores doing that.

I would not recommend a 25% discount on fresh designs since they have to be manufactured. OTOH, plants or giftware - already in stock - could make sense at that discount level.

The idea is to encourage shops to get out there and compete and not just wait and take anything spit out by a machine.

Most florists don't sit around waiting for the Merc or Dove to spit out an order.

Secondly, why can't the florist do both. Actively participate in the WS business, EARN additional income and conduct local promotions.

It is not an either/or situation.

The two departments, WS business and local business is not a mutually exclusive endeavor.
joe

 

[HeatherTuckey]

A couple years ago a small flower shop came to us and wanted us to buy their shop. After looking at their numbers, they were 50% wire in, the one owner took no salary and they other owner took very little. Their rent was SUPER cheap and they still couldn't pay themselves a decent wage. They also had put money from their own savings back into the business (not sure how much) and I think they were still paying off the initial loan from the previous owner. We told them to close their doors and we'd hire the one owner as a designer and she'd make twice her current salary. Perhaps she was taking cash but I doubt it, since she implied she had put her own $ back in. They were extremely insulted by our offer.

I didn't get why.

They were TEL, FTD and bloomnet.

It's actually pretty sad. I'd guess this couple is in their early 60's now, and I am sure have spent much of their retirement $ on this biz that keeps draining them financially.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

If the order doesn't make financial sense then yes, cancel or forward the order.




Most florists don't sit around waiting for the Merc or Dove to spit out an order.

Secondly, why can't the florist do both. Actively participate in the WS business, EARN additional income and conduct local promotions.

It is not an either/or situation.

The two departments, WS business and local business is not a mutually exclusive endeavor.
joe

I completely agree Joe. Well said.

 

[Joe Mioux]

A couple years ago a small flower shop came to us and wanted us to buy their shop. After looking at their numbers, they were 50% wire in, the one owner took no salary and they other owner took very little. Their rent was SUPER cheap and they still couldn't pay themselves a decent wage. They also had put money from their own savings back into the business (not sure how much) and I think they were still paying off the initial loan from the previous owner. We told them to close their doors and we'd hire the one owner as a designer and she'd make twice her current salary. Perhaps she was taking cash but I doubt it, since she implied she had put her own $ back in. They were extremely insulted by our offer.

I didn't get why.

They were TEL, FTD and bloomnet.

It's actually pretty sad. I'd guess this couple is in their early 60's now, and I am sure have spent much of their retirement $ on this biz that keeps draining them financially.

Oh sure hire the one that wasn't paying herself. Lets see double of $0, is $0.

Heather, you are brilliant!!! Now that is the way to make money! :thumbsup:>

 

[bloomz]

Why would a florist declining to fill an incoming order be deemed 'emotional/prideful'? There are myriad reasons why it does not make sense to accept an incoming order, including:

- over-promised product
- undersold price on product or delivery
- sender is a known skimmer
- sender is famous for claiming non-delivery months after the order is placed
- you don't have the product in stock and the cost of purchasing it will be more than than the net value of the order.
That's not emotion, it's just good business.

I believe I covered those factors with the statement "If I can make a coupla bucks on it". That and a bit of common sense. I used to let my pride and emotions make decisions for me. When I told my consultant I cut off ftd.com I was "scolded" for making an emotional decision that was not good for my business.

In my case - it was emotion and not decision making based on facts and figures.

The idea is to encourage shops to get out there and compete and not just wait and take anything spit out by a machine.

You don't really think I do that or advocate doing that second part.

And this makes you happy?

Well it shows me I made a good decision quite a few years back when I put away my soapbox and stopped trying to stop the forces of change.

I wasted a gawdawful amount of time on that, trying to"organize us". I made the first OG list - I circulated it - I personally drove to every florist in about a 50 mile radius and gave it to them, I did test orders, blah blah blah ad nauseum.

Now I waste time on other things, like debating the same tired topic over and over here.

:rofl:

 

[TOTO]

Ah Joe, you know I luv you!

Here is where flower shops are no different from OG's. You accept outgoing orders and then send them on to some other flower shop and expect them to fill YOUR discounted order.

You missed my point Joe! I have NO PROBLEM filling orders from other REAL FLORISTS like ourselves at 80% NET TO MEE, and vice versa to YOU! The 20% sending commission, they've rightly earned, is a CHEAP INCOMING ORDER ACQUISTION cost. It's a WASH which I am HAPPY to live with.

In fact, we're especially happy to doo another REAL FLORIST'S doo since like us, they too have those funny little black lines on their thumb.

The problem I have always had and always will, is when our orders are run through the SKIMMER DOT.CONS coupled with the WS wringers, and the filling florists are left with NAUGHT or CHUMP CHANGE, after having DONE ALL OF THE DOO!

They are the anomaly which effects the BALANCE OF FAIR TRADE amongst and between REAL FLORISTS.

However, you choose to play on an unequal playing field. You know how to get your outgoing orders filled, but few florists have the opportunity to send YOU discounted incoming orders.

In fact, the opposite is true! we choose to play on an EQUAL playing field with other real florists. The difference is in the fact that, we, like others, have chosen to eliminate the MIDDLEMAN SKIMMERS and the WS WRINGERS

Just like what you do now. You take all the benefit without the reciprocal discounted order. Yea I am sure you get some incoming from flower shops who know you, but you still don't belong to a national database where all flower shops have equal access to your shop's product.

Again, NOT WHAT WE DO! We belong to the Independent Florist's Association, www.myifa.org, with a cost of only $20 per month and the better 80% net to filler and the usual 20% sending commission to the sender. In addition, any REAL FLORIST can call our shop and get the professional courtesy and respect we would expect from them. Anyone can GOOGLE the keywords of FLORIST 10530 or FLORIST IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY, and find us. I think GOOGLE might qualify as a NATIONAL DATABASE, and darn iffen it's at NO COST TO YOU!

Not NET Profit.... this is your contribution margin. Here is where you and all flower shop owners who have your mindset about WS's fail. You either earn the $11.75 Contribution Margin or you don't. That money will get used to help contribute paying for your fixed expenses. You will incur those fixed expenses irregardless of whether or not you accept that discounted order. this is incorrect. your $5.75 will contribute to fixed expense payments. Lets say you receive 1000 of those orders which then generates a CM of $5.75. That $5,750 can be used to pay your utilities, such as your heating and air conditioning for the year.That money gets used to pay your fixed expenses, expenses that you are going to have regardless of whether you accept WS business or not. Had you not accepted those extra orders you would have had to pay your Heating and AC from other revenue which would cause your net profit to be lower. I just used the fixed expense of heating and ac as an example.

My point was that, the $5.75 is CHUMP CHANGE and because those orders were run through the WS wringers. It's a double standard Joe! They live in FAT CITY making all the big profits while working with REAL DOLLARS while expecting REAL FLORISTS to work with WIRE SERVICE WAMPUM and FUNNY MONEY.

You will drive yourself crazy worrying what the other guy earns on sales. All we can do is control our own activity, whenever I wholesale a plant where I might earn a couple dollars, I don't worry - can't worry or concern myself - if that wholesaler or retail shop is actually earning a higher return on the product I sold him than I earn on that product. Joe

Actually Joe, what DROVE the LOVELY LINDA CRAZY, was when she REALLY tried to work with our NEW INC PARTNER while trying to TRIAGE their DOT.CON ORDER REQUESTS which would make a wish list to Santa Clause look like a NO, YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT WITH THAT!

Most of us already know the usual DOT.CON order profile. Too many selections with too many recipes with too many varieties with too many colors with too many DELIVERY CAVEATS with TOO LITTLE TIME and with the Pièce de résistance, TOO LITTLE MONEY!

I still can't believe how much of her precious time she wasted in her valiant attempts to try and fix the inherent problems their DOT.CON orders printed out from our Mercury with. Not withstanding the fact that, EVERY ORDER, which came in from them, was always $10 SHORT of a viable SRP to include our cost of delivery. Add to that, our usual (ASK) (P) (MO MONEY) scenario, she then had to ask them to provide us with the recipient's telephone number, or what-ever else they were missing.

Our problem, or rather OUR PRIDE, was in the fact that, whatever left our shops had OUR NAME ON IT! And our rule has always been: "Nothing leaves our shop, which we would not be proud enough, to send for or to, one of our own family members. DEMS OUR RULES!

Having gotten totally SICK and TIRED of WORKING FORE THEM and FORE FREE, while working with them for NAUGHT, we packed up our toys, and moved on to that OTHER WIRE SERVICE who promised all of us that: " WE WILL NEVER COMPETE WITH OUR OWN MEMBERS!" (for their orders)

After which, THEY DECIDED TO COMPETE WITH THEIR OWN MEMBERS! (for our own orders)

And so, back to the DOT.CON JUNK orders we went, with the only difference in that fact that, they now spat out at Linda, albeit from a different printer.

We wound up with a case of déjà vu, and so, WEE LEFT THEM TOO!

We've gone FULL CIRCLE at least SIX TIMES NOW! Having once had SEVEN WIRE SERVICES from 1969 till 1984, to include Teleflora, FTDA, Florafax, AFS, Redbook, FCN, and CARIK. We were making so much money back then, the fact that six of them were COSTING US more than they were MAKING US, went unnoticed, up and until I learned Lotus in 1984.

The spreadsheets told me the real story, and what I came away with back in 1984 was TWO BRILLIANT REVELATIONS. (back then, but not now)

1. You can ONLY MAKE MONEY having ONE WIRE SERVICE!
2. You can ONLY MAKE MONEY by sending out more orders than you fill!

That formula worked well, up and until the MIDDLEMAN DOT.CON SKIMMER ANOMOLY raised their GREEDY HEADS, and started to STEAL THE 100% SALE ORDERS which would've normally gone through the REAL FLORISTS, having held the previous balance of trade in check.

Prior to that, the costs associated with filling orders could easily be absorbed with the profits earned from the sending side, and in most cases, it was a close enough WASH, especially since the dues and fees associated with the ONE WIRE SERVICE you worked with, was low.

The WIRE SERVICE WORLD, as I once knew, has morphed from being a SYMBIOTIC BUSINESS PARTNER into a GREEDY FORE PROFIT MONSTER and a LEECH on the profitability of THEIR OWN MEMBER FLORISTS.

They have NO ALLEGIANCE to their HARD WORKING MEMBERS, and have long since stopped helping them MAKE THEIR CASH REGISTERS RING with CONSUMER 100% SALES for TRUE PROFITABILITY.

All we have left is a WS venue, which uses florists as nothing more than passive streams of revenues in the forms of HIGHER DUES and MORE FUNNY FEES, after which, they enjoy sleeping with all of our enemies, AKA: Middleman OG's who have INVADED OUR INDUSTRY.

They've become just like the DRUG DEALERS who cut the COKE with TALC, knowing full well that, the DEPENDENT ADDICTS will flock on back, looking for a FIX, and willing to PAY MORE, while getting even less.

OK, time to get off my usual RANT, grab my red kettle and big a-s-s bell, and get back out on the corner soliciting for donations to our CONTRIBUTION MARGIN FUND.

I still LUV YA JOE! And while we'll never agree on this subject, that's not to say that, we don't agree on most everything else.

However, and fore the LIFE OF MEE, I just can't FEED THE HANDS THAT BITES US!
lol

 

[goldfish]

Now I waste time on other things, like debating the same tired topic over and over here.

That's a good one. How come are we all wasting time in FC this time of the year? Not enough incoming orders, perhaps? He he...

I just came back from another florist. I saw maybe about two dz TF's Kinkade centerpieces sitting on their bench, all pre-greened. It's a kind of sad scene to look at, because there's a good chance that half of them will still be sitting there on Dec 26th... Hope they will be able to sell them all.

 

[Joe Mioux]

yo toto.

I still luvya too.

Let me make this clear. If a florist belongs to a national database, like you do, then you don't qualify as an OG.

However, the database needs to be complete.

My point has always been. If a flower shop drops a WS affiliation OR doesn't belong to some association that facilitates the transfer of orders, then that shop is playing and acting like a typical OG.

Shops like this are willing to send but not receive orders.

If the florist has no affiliation, then the probablity of that shop receiving orders from other shops is diminished.

Also, toto, please think about how any money earned over and above the variable costs, will lead to greater profitabilty. It is not just about one order but hundreds or thousands of orders that can be used to pay fixed costs.

in other words, $5.75 might be chump change but mulitply that by a thousand or so and then that money is definitely not chump change.

joe

all i want for christmas is to have toto understand my ws points and bloomzie to become a conservative.

 

[Joe Mioux]

So you are advocating eliminate 10 pct of total business (just a number for illustration -- my incoming is below that number) and discount the remaining 90 pct of that business by 25 pct?

Lets' look at an example.

$100K now goes to $90k then you say discount that $90K by 25 pct which leads to $67.5 in revenues

Now lets keep the WS business. $100K is comprised of $10K WSin which yields 6.3K in revenues (WS fees plus the commissions given) PLUS the $90K stays the same.

What is better $96,300 or $67,500 in revenues?

This really doesn't have anything to do with COGS since that is variable.

Also: and even more importantly! Your fixed costs remain the same so that extra $30K in revenues will contribute to paying your fixed overhead, insurance, building/equipment depreciation, property taxes, utilities etc.

Joe

Of course not. What I'm saying is that national brands and even smaller OGs are running ad campaigns with large discounts and/or incentives.

I read your response earlier today and your response kept bothering me.

Please re-read my highlighted points in both your and mine posts.

So are you in favor of florists retaining WS affiliation or against it?

From your previous posts and our phone conversations, I think we both agree direct orders (customer to florist ) are best.

But when you said "of course not" , that comment seems in conflict with your desire to see more florists drop Teleflora, et al.

OTH, and I realize you were using "of course not" for the 90 pct discount part of question.....

But you didn't answer the 10pct ws part.

joe

 

[CHR]

But when you said "of course not" , that comment seems in conflict with your desire to see more florists drop Teleflora, et al.

Joe,

You continue to misread me. I do not 'have a desire to see more florists drop Teleflora, et al.'

I have a desire to see more florists financially succeed by understanding their relationships with their vendors - and the relationships with those vendors on their bottom lines.

If a florist is happy with the margins and the business practices, by all means they should keep at it. If they are displeased, they should analyze, assess and decide if the continuing relationship is in the best near and long-term interest of their business.

Dropping or adding a WS is not a magic solution to anything. Building solid local business with our brand own identity - so customer think of our company first - is our best prospect for the future.

 

[Tuberose]

Kincaids left? We only got 8 and are sold out already, people here love those things, took awhile to convince the boss they sell. Now the Radco tree and those red dishes from last year......

Trish

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe,

You continue to misread me. I do not 'have a desire to see more florists drop Teleflora, et al.'

I have a desire to see more florists financially succeed by understanding their relationships with their vendors - and the relationships with those vendors on their bottom lines.

If a florist is happy with the margins and the business practices, by all means they should keep at it. If they are displeased, they should analyze, assess and decide if the continuing relationship is in the best near and long-term interest of their business.

Dropping or adding a WS is not a magic solution to anything. Building solid local business with our brand own identity - so customer think of our company first - is our best prospect for the future.

the above statements are not consistent with what you have stated in the past.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Ok, not filling order gatherer crap of any kind nature or price, here.

Us either.

you quoted joan.

how is your above statment consistent with your response to me?



the you post this........ "I have a desire to see more florists financially succeed by understanding their relationships with their vendors - and the relationships with those vendors on their bottom lines."

joe

 

[CHR]

I didn't say to quit wire services, I said don't fill crap order gatherer orders from companies who set you up to fail in the eyes of consumers. We've discussed those companies here at length.

You're going to have to do better than that to find a quote where I tell anyone to blindly quit a WS. I don't believe I ever have. Feel free to find one, though.

Added: Just saw you added... do you have a problem with what I said? It applies to every vendor - wholesalers, suppliers, repairmen - everybody you write a check to.

Good gravy.