Wire Services Are Buying Your Customer

[inferno63]

I truly believe they will continue to adapt and adjust and stay successful for a long time to come. If not them then someone else. There will always be some other corporate giant who will. The flower industry is too big for the big players to ignore. The only way we will know for sure is to see how things play out. In the meantime, I am going to continue to try to also adapt and adjust and stay forward thinking.

I guess it is a bit unrealistic to think that a handful of small florists can beat a corporate giant...unless, just maybe, we could join in some way as one to bring 'em down. That is the idealistic-wannabe-hippie-flower-child in me talking. But honestly, I would rather take on the giant by little self in direct competition. My life's motto courtesy of Garfield, "There is never a need to outrun anyone you can outwit." I will grow and adapt to life without WS and find a way to make my business successful and needed without them no matter what direction they move in.....that is what gives me the passion to be an entrepreneur. If it was easy, it would quickly lose my interest.

 

[LJVF]

I guess it is a bit unrealistic to think that a handful of small florists can beat a corporate giant...unless, just maybe, we could join in some way as one to bring 'em down. That is the idealistic-wannabe-hippie-flower-child in me talking. But honestly, I would rather take on the giant by little self in direct competition. My life's motto courtesy of Garfield, "There is never a need to outrun anyone you can outwit." I will grow and adapt to life without WS and find a way to make my business successful and needed without them no matter what direction they move in.....that is what gives me the passion to be an entrepreneur. If it was easy, it would quickly lose my interest.

Slaying the giant is not impossible, but highly improbable. With that said, I don't see any reason why a "real florist" can't be successful in it's own niche with or without a wire service. As long as we continue to play it smart and stay ahead of the game.

 

[bloomz]

I truly believe they will continue to adapt and adjust and stay successful for a long time to come. If not them then someone else. There will always be some other corporate giant who will. The flower industry is too big for the big players to ignore. The only way we will know for sure is to see how things play out. In the meantime, I am going to continue to try to also adapt and adjust and stay forward thinking.

There's the key and try to be proactive and not reactive.

They'll be around longer than most florists will.

and Inferno - I always get resolution with complaints.

I guess it is a bit unrealistic to think that a handful of small florists can beat a corporate giant...unless, just maybe, we could join in some way as one to bring 'em down. That is the idealistic-wannabe-hippie-flower-child in me talking. But honestly, I would rather take on the giant by little self in direct competition. My life's motto courtesy of Garfield, "There is never a need to outrun anyone you can outwit." I will grow and adapt to life without WS and find a way to make my business successful and needed without them no matter what direction they move in.....that is what gives me the passion to be an entrepreneur. If it was easy, it would quickly lose my interest.

Well I qualify as the hippie indeed.

But think globally - act locally is about all you can do.

This "let's all get organized and fight them" has gone on ad nauseum. And nothing has even become of it, except their continued growth.

I know...

opinions vary

 

[Joe Mioux]

Wire service can be and are profitable for some florists.

Outgoing is easy, but being profitable on the incoming side is also very doable.

After WS expenses and commission, plus rebate checks a certain amount of discount business will improve your net profit.

However, if you are too small and do not receive a sufficient amount of incoming business, the membership fees will negate any contribution to your net profit.

Also however, if you are in a position where you receive so many incoming orders that you're forced to hire additional labor, then again the WS business may not work.


It is imperative that you find a balance or a certain percentage of WS business that will make you more profitable.

For my business, it appears that when ws incoming business that falls below 8 pct of Gross Sales I become unprofitable. I also do not want WS business going above 20-25 pct. Above that figure, I believe I would have to hire additional labor to cover the added business.

I have found that accepting around 12 pct Incoming WS business is a profitable mix. I also send out more than I receive, so I can offset the 7 pct clearing house fee easily.

Rebates cover the membership dues.

I rarely have a problem with WS affiliated florists filling orders. Mistakes happen and are understandable.

joe

 

[CHR]

This "let's all get organized and fight them" has gone on ad nauseum. And nothing has even become of it, except their continued growth.

Seth Godin talked about this issue a couple days ago:

What happens when we organize?

Most power occurs because one side is better organized than the other. Labor is usually less well organized than management, criminals are usually less well organized than the police and customers are always less well organized than producers.

The internet promises to change that. It does it occasionally, sort of randomly. Sometimes, users will rise up and complain (as they did at Facebook). Or voters will organize online and hurt (or help) a politician or candidate.

Wikipedia works because so many contributors figured out how to self-organize into a group that produced something far more useful than a traditionally organized document.

I think we're at the earliest possible beginning of the changes we're going to see because of this sort of grass roots coordination.

Simple example: the Starbucks in Larchmont, NY keeps their thermostat at 64 degrees. And the stores in Breckenridge, Colorado keep their doors wide open all winter. If you're raging mad about energy waste, you could say something. And nothing would happen. But if customers organized and ten people said something or a hundred people said something... boom, new rules.

The system doesn't know what to do with a movement.

Emphasis mine. It only took a little more than 100 florists to stand up and be counted to get 1-800 to stop promising 'free delivery' by local florists. Just imagine what several hundred (or 1000) could do - if focused on the right issue(s) (deceptive product photos, DIY in the box bouquets presented as professional arrangements, deceptive 'delivery' charges and 'sales tax' pocketed by OGs....shall I go on????)

 

[bloomz]

Seth Godin talked about this issue a couple days ago:
Emphasis mine. It only took a little more than 100 florists to stand up and be counted to get 1-800 to stop promising 'free delivery' by local florists. Just imagine what several hundred (or 1000) could do - if focused on the right issue(s) (deceptive product photos, DIY in the box bouquets presented as professional arrangements, deceptive 'delivery' charges and 'sales tax' pocketed by OGs....shall I go on????)

Yes please do go on.

Those would be great tasks - when do we start?

I'm for DIY boxes presented as professional arrangements.


Sorry for being a skeptic, but I just can't see them changing because their competitors don't like it, right or wrong.

 

[Oldtimer]

Yes, Joe is right. Wire services can be profitable for some florists. The question is of the estimated 30,000 florists, how many today can actually show that WS is profitable for them. In reality, most can't say that.

Joe has indicated that his company can handle 12 percent incoming and as his outgoing exceeds incoming, it more than pays the 7 percent. he also indicates that the rebates pay his membership.

I read somewhere that the average florist sales is $300,000 or less a year. If the average florist accepts 10 percent of their annual sales as WS business, that comes to roughly 50 orders a month ($50 each). Even if these florists are sending out 60 orders a month to offset that, the rebates aren't going to cover the monthly membership and then a major portion of the commission will be needed to pay the balance.

The contention has always been that WS will help the florist pay their variable expenses once their fixed costs are paid by the full value business. Well, guess what? In most cases today, there isn't enough full value business being generated to pay the fixed expenses as well as the variable. So the WS business has become an additional financial burden to most florists and not an additonal source of business as many would have you believe. Hense, there are alot of florists failing. These are not just new florists that got into the business a short time ago, but alot are old time florists and multi-generation flower shops that are failing. I'd be interested in knowing how many florists that have closed their shop in your area WASN'T ATTACHED TO A WIRE SERVICE.

For every florist that can show you how the numbers can work for them, there are a heck of alot of other florists that those numbers aren't going to come even close to work for their company anymore. As the gentleman from South Carolina so well stated the case at the beginning of this thread, how long will it take for it to sink in. Currently, they need you much more than you need them. There will come a time, however, when most likely they won't need you any more because you will have helped them finance their new path and you will either be eliminated or become a designated filler for someone - and many are already that now!

 

[Joe Mioux]

There are not 30,000 florists in the U.S.

That is a really old number.

OT. how many U.S. florists are still ws affiliated compared to the total?

30 pct, 50 pct, 66 pct 80 pct?

Also, ot

Your variable costs statement isn't correct.

You buy raw material to fill orders, you don't fill orders to buy raw material. That is why these costs are known as variable costs

I don't buy flowers then hope for additional incoming WS business in order to use up my product.

Variable costs include your flowers and in the case of WS business the commissions given up to the sending florist and clearing house. It does not include include labor and most delivery expenses.

Joe

 

[Oldtimer]

There are not 30,000 florists in the U.S.

That is a really old number.

OT. how many U.S. florists are still ws affiliated compared to the total?

30 pct, 50 pct, 66 pct 80 pct?

Also, ot

Your variable costs statement isn't correct.

You buy raw material to fill orders, you don't fill orders to buy raw material. That is why these costs are known as variable costs

I don't buy flowers then hope for additional incoming WS business in order to use up my product.

Variable costs include your flowers and in the case of WS business the commissions given up to the sending florist and clearing house. It does not include include labor and most delivery expenses.

Joe

Joe, I'm convinced that you were probably a magician in a previous life. While everyone is watching the right hand, the switch is being done with the left. I'll admit that you are extremely good at it and no disrespect, but can we stay on subject just for a little while anyway.

It is funny that you criticized the 30,000 florists as an old number. I never mentioned only US florists. I'd like to think that the Canadian florists are still part of this situation. And besides, BOSS used that number just the other day and no one batted an eye. The truth of the matter once a florist leaves the WS, they sort of drop off the radar and I'm not sure anyone is really sure just how many are still in operation.

Joe, I really don't care to argue what's a fixed or variable expense. The problem is very simple. Many florists today have trouble paying their bills. Their monthly revenue doesn't meet their monthly expenses.They really don't need a balance sheet to tell them that.To solve the problem, you either find ways to increase your revenue or find ways to cut expenses. And to a vast majority of florists today, a WS has become a very uncontrolable expense. If that 8 pct figure works for you as a profitable window, then great for you. But we all know that florists always have to offset any incoming wire business with outgoing and for most today, the pickin's are very slim. If your outgoing exceeds your incoming, I'm again glad for you, but that's not the case for most. If the rebates from you outgoing are sufficient to pay for your monthly membership, that's great too, but how many florists do you think can do that today?? What pct? Joe, put a number on it.

Joe, I'm not trying to argue against your numbers and your company being able to be profitable with a WS. I'm just trying to point out that the vast majority of florists today aren't working with the same numbers you are.

When florists findly come to the conclusion that increasing their revenue numbers is going to become even more difficult in the short future because of the economy and realize that there isn't many expenses that they can reduce such as rent, utilities, gas, insurance, etc, then finally maybe the light will go on when it comes the true costs of the WS. It is not only the expense of the monthly dues and the "Wiz Bang" machine, but also the additional gas and vehicle expense that sucks money out of your company.

Like Joe says, wire service is profitable for some florists. However, many florists will be alot more profitable without them.

 

[Hollywood]

Old Timer,:magic:magic:magic
You nailed it .
What is good for Joe is not good for every little florist around.
No disrespect Joe, don't get all out of wack now.
Remember me, we said to each other sometime ago, that we did not get offended by our remarks.
That is when all my red dots started pouring in.
Old timer is absolutely, totally, accuratly right when it comes to our little business we started, ourselves from scratch.
We are not several generations old, it's OK we did other things as interesting before.
We are not the Teleflora, Ftd, Conroys type of florists, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo.
We are the new wave of artists, that work for the pleasure and like every real artist
we don't roll in the dough, we are somewhat alone and it's thrilling.
We like that because what ever we have, we sweated for it, nobody else did it for us before.
Love it.
Old Timer you are SUPER GREAT AND YOU SURE ARE A REAL FLORIST take it from a newbie like they call us............Yeh right...............
Warm regards..............
Hollywood!!:yourock::yourock::yourock:

 

[TOTO]

Ah YES, and an accounting backround to BOOT!

I guess it is a bit unrealistic to think that a handful of small florists can beat a corporate giant...unless, just maybe, we could join in some way as one to bring 'em down. That is the idealistic-wannabe-hippie-flower-child in me talking. But honestly, I would rather take on the giant by little self in direct competition. My life's motto courtesy of Garfield, "There is never a need to outrun anyone you can outwit." I will grow and adapt to life without WS and find a way to make my business successful and needed without them no matter what direction they move in.....that is what gives me the passion to be an entrepreneur. If it was easy, it would quickly lose my interest.

Nice to meet a LADY with a BRAIN who refuses to JUMP on the WS TRAIN.

Just too bad that, so many of our other fellow real florists can't, or refuse to, CRUNCH THEIR NUMBERS to arrive at the REALITY of their LOSSES on filling the highly discounted incoming orders, other than for another REAL FLORIST.

You obviously KNOW YOUR FACTS so, be sure to continue to post the truth.

The bigger issue is over the fact that, so many florists insist on ENABLING the OGs, DOGs, NON-LOCAL PHONIES, and DOT.CONS, through their WS affiliation(s). In fact, many of them will TAKE and FILL ANYTHING for ANYONE and for ANY AMOUNT, while thinking they're OPERATING A BUSINESS.

This kind of FLORIST IGNORANCE is exactely what their competitors rely upon to FILL THEIR COFFERS, not their FLORIST MEMBERS. :wallhead:

 

[bloomz]

Joe, I really don't care to argue what's a fixed or variable expense. The problem is very simple. Many florists today have trouble paying their bills. Their monthly revenue doesn't meet their monthly expenses.They really don't need a balance sheet to tell them that.To solve the problem, you either find ways to increase your revenue or find ways to cut expenses. And to a vast majority of florists today, a WS has become a very uncontrolable expense. If that 8 pct figure works for you as a profitable window, then great for you. But we all know that florists always have to offset any incoming wire business with outgoing and for most today, the pickin's are very slim. If your outgoing exceeds your incoming, I'm again glad for you, but that's not the case for most. If the rebates from you outgoing are sufficient to pay for your monthly membership, that's great too, but how many florists do you think can do that today?? What pct? Joe, put a number on it.

Joe, I'm not trying to argue against your numbers and your company being able to be profitable with a WS. I'm just trying to point out that the vast majority of florists today aren't working with the same numbers you are.

When florists findly come to the conclusion that increasing their revenue numbers is going to become even more difficult in the short future because of the economy and realize that there isn't many expenses that they can reduce such as rent, utilities, gas, insurance, etc, then finally maybe the light will go on when it comes the true costs of the WS. It is not only the expense of the monthly dues and the "Wiz Bang" machine, but also the additional gas and vehicle expense that sucks money out of your company.

Like Joe says, wire service is profitable for some florists. However, many florists will be alot more profitable without them.

And gosh in this climate it's just terrible that Joe would post some real life experience numbers for people to have some kind of workable target.

Probably best people just cut off their noses to spite the wire services and forget about incremental sales/profits. Who could need those in tough economic times?

It's easier than doing some math and finding workable numbers.

[/sarcasm]

There are many useless or minimally useful services WS's sell us that could and likely should be cut - like directory advertising and container purchases for instance.

I know this flies in the face of the anti wire service battle cry up in here, but...

opinions vary

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe, I'm convinced that you were probably a magician in a previous life. While everyone is watching the right hand, the switch is being done with the left. I'll admit that you are extremely good at it and no disrespect, but can we stay on subject just for a little while anyway.

It is funny that you criticized the 30,000 florists as an old number. I never mentioned only US florists. I'd like to think that the Canadian florists are still part of this situation. And besides, BOSS used that number just the other day and no one batted an eye. The truth of the matter once a florist leaves the WS, they sort of drop off the radar and I'm not sure anyone is really sure just how many are still in operation.

Joe, I really don't care to argue what's a fixed or variable expense. The problem is very simple. Many florists today have trouble paying their bills. Their monthly revenue doesn't meet their monthly expenses.They really don't need a balance sheet to tell them that.To solve the problem, you either find ways to increase your revenue or find ways to cut expenses. And to a vast majority of florists today, a WS has become a very uncontrolable expense. If that 8 pct figure works for you as a profitable window, then great for you. But we all know that florists always have to offset any incoming wire business with outgoing and for most today, the pickin's are very slim. If your outgoing exceeds your incoming, I'm again glad for you, but that's not the case for most. If the rebates from you outgoing are sufficient to pay for your monthly membership, that's great too, but how many florists do you think can do that today?? What pct? Joe, put a number on it.

Joe, I'm not trying to argue against your numbers and your company being able to be profitable with a WS. I'm just trying to point out that the vast majority of florists today aren't working with the same numbers you are.

When florists findly come to the conclusion that increasing their revenue numbers is going to become even more difficult in the short future because of the economy and realize that there isn't many expenses that they can reduce such as rent, utilities, gas, insurance, etc, then finally maybe the light will go on when it comes the true costs of the WS. It is not only the expense of the monthly dues and the "Wiz Bang" machine, but also the additional gas and vehicle expense that sucks money out of your company.

Like Joe says, wire service is profitable for some florists. However, many florists will be alot more profitable without them.

First, the magician statement is insulting.

Second, you keep commenting about the unprofitable side of WS without context while I put my arguments in context. Maybe if you spent a little more time really thinking about these issues, you wouldn't make broad generalized statements that WS are bad for everyone. So far you have only relented and acknowledged that my business is the only business in North America that is actually showing profitable results. I am not alone.

Third, I'm not going to stop arguing with you if you keep making the Anti-WS service comments without any documentation. So get used to it.

Fourth, I read your 30k florist comment as U.S. florists not North American flower shops.

Nice to meet a LADY with a BRAIN who refuses to JUMP on the WS TRAIN.

Just too bad that, so many of our other fellow real florists can't, or refuse to, CRUNCH THEIR NUMBERS to arrive at the REALITY of their LOSSES on filling the highly discounted incoming orders, other than for another REAL FLORIST.

You obviously KNOW YOUR FACTS so, be sure to continue to post the truth.

The bigger issue is over the fact that, so many florists insist on ENABLING the OGs, DOGs, NON-LOCAL PHONIES, and DOT.CONS, through their WS affiliation(s). In fact, many of them will TAKE and FILL ANYTHING for ANYONE and for ANY AMOUNT, while thinking they're OPERATING A BUSINESS.

This kind of FLORIST IGNORANCE is exactely what their competitors rely upon to FILL THEIR COFFERS, not their FLORIST MEMBERS. :wallhead:

And your statements are equally insulting to every florist who remains in the WS business.

I find myself in rare company when only two other florists on this board publicly and frequently posts in these threads agrees with me. I do respect their commentary on this issue. I really wish someother members here at FC who agree with me would speak up. I know you are out there because I keep getting encouraging pms and positive reps comments.

Toto, I have defined my business and its relationship to WS business over and over and over again. Small town shops' WS business generally is made up of sympathy business. It doesn't take much additional delivery labor to deliver 5, 10 or even 15 more sympathy pieces to the local funeral homes when I am going there anyway.

Holiday WS is very very manageable. The other occasions are also manageable and almost insignificant. For every 100 incoming orders I receive, I get maybe - maybe - one or two O.G. order.

All I am saying is that I am presenting the opposite side of your argument to offer some balance. I do it with my real world experiences and not just generalized statements.

Every florist should be allowed to do their own accounting and not be brow-beaten or ridiculed into dumping the WS business by anti-WS florists.

joe

 

[theRKF]

A quick "Bravo" to Joe as I head out to some Saturday yard maintenance. Too often agenda or bloated self-importance interfere with objective analysis.

Ryan

 

[CHR]

What Ryan said!

Joe obviously does the analytics to make decisions best for his business. Too many florists simply don't - and rely on either emotions or gut instincts.

What works for one company in one area may be financially disasterous for another.

Oldtimer, many florists today have trouble paying their bills because they don't understand finance and/or don't market their own products well (or at all). Joe isn't one of them.

 

[Kristine]

The problem is NOT FLORISTS FILLING OTHER FLORIST ORDERS. it's when we enable the order gathering non florist to continue to milk the system out of hard earned mom and pop income.

It's continuing to partner (and I use that term loosly) with companies who take the cream on the back of those who do the work. (martha anyone?)

The playing field is NOT LEVEL. Yet there are those in this business who continue to ALLOW those who do not "do the doo" to continue in business. What would it take?????

 

[Hollywood]

Joejoe,
Relax, calm down, nobody is insulting you .
We are just talking among grown ups.
We have different opinions, big deal, you should take this as positive and be strong, Joejoe.
Some of us have been around a long time, the parents of their parents have started the business like in your case 1800s something, that is great.
You had the GREAT opportunity to take over and profit of the reputation of your family, beautiful.
You and a few others in the business have been in this industry a long, long
time and have a lot of experience good or bad.
In your case, sometimes I discerned in your words negative past experiences, may be I am wrong, but like in every long history there are stories, good and bad.
You should not get offended and insulted so easily.
Nobody want to hurt you, but some of us have a different opinions, like Bloomz says "Opinions vary"..........wise man Bloomz.
Some of us have been in this business long enough and in different sectors of it to have been able to make their own opinion based on what they saw, what they heard and what was done around them.
These people do not have centuries of experience ( don't get insulted now ) but their experience is true, accurate and invaluable.
Their experience is not insulting or offending, so take it easy, we are not mean to you, remember we are supposed to be friends.
And then you have the Newbies, like we are called around this neck of the wood.
I am one of them.
Should I be offended by this " tongue and cheek" title.
No.
I am new at FC it is a fact and after reading all that has been written I have a pretty good profile on the group.
Very diverse in age, experience, spirit, passion, ambitions and thoughts.
I am 68 years old, my experience is broad (good and bad), my spirit is and has always been high, my passion is extreme, my ambitions are many and my thoughts are without boundaries, and I am a Newbie............darn.......
I think it is all amusing but constructive.
The people who opened a flower shop yesterday do not know what you and the oldies know and it is a great forum for them to help them make a decision for their shop.
I wish I knew FC from the beginning (not a century......8 years ago only) don't get upset, I am teasing.
I was told in the Old Country to respect my elders.
And my Newbies too.
Be strong and be happy, life is not only about the mighty money that looses its value every day, life is about Passion, Beauty, Grace, Class and high Spirit.
We all respect you, your family and your business.
Be cool..................Hollywood!!:jester
:newbie:newbie:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[inferno63]

First, the magician statement is insulting.

Second, you keep commenting about the unprofitable side of WS without context while I put my arguments in context. Maybe if you spent a little more time really thinking about these issues, you wouldn't make broad generalized statements that WS are bad for everyone. So far you have only relented and acknowledged that my business is the only business in North America that is actually showing profitable results. I am not alone.

Third, I'm not going to stop arguing with you if you keep making the Anti-WS service comments without any documentation. So get used to it.

Fourth, I read your 30k florist comment as U.S. florists not North American flower shops.



And your statements are equally insulting to every florist who remains in the WS business.

I find myself in rare company when only two other florists on this board publicly and frequently posts in these threads agrees with me. I do respect their commentary on this issue. I really wish someother members here at FC who agree with me would speak up. I know you are out there because I keep getting encouraging pms and positive reps comments.

Toto, I have defined my business and its relationship to WS business over and over and over again. Small town shops' WS business generally is made up of sympathy business. It doesn't take much additional delivery labor to deliver 5, 10 or even 15 more sympathy pieces to the local funeral homes when I am going there anyway.

Holiday WS is very very manageable. The other occasions are also manageable and almost insignificant. For every 100 incoming orders I receive, I get maybe - maybe - one or two O.G. order.

All I am saying is that I am presenting the opposite side of your argument to offer some balance. I do it with my real world experiences and not just generalized statements.

Every florist should be allowed to do their own accounting and not be brow-beaten or ridiculed into dumping the WS business by anti-WS florists.

joe

Joe, You are right about the sympathy business. The funeral home is about one block from me but there is a flaw in your theory. I never filled more than 5 WS orders for a funeral and I don't have the outgoing orders to balance the filling. I do my own accounting and it was the numbers alone that prompted me to drop the WS business. As I have said before in this thread, the numbers work for the predominately sending florist so more power to them. If the numbers twisted that way for me, I would be on your band wagon but unfortunately the florists, such as me, that lose money with WS are on the opposite side of the battle. ONLY the individual florist can make decisions that are best for them based on their numbers. I don't think anyone has generalized too much. They are speaking from their own experience.

Some numbers for you too try. I average 8 incoming and 1 outgoing a month. Average fill amount of $40. Along with that are these costs:

Association Fee $ 54.99
Technology Fee $ 19.99
Delivery Costs $64.00 (Usually special trips)
COGS sold for an average of 22% of fill price.
Labor average 8% to 12% of fill price.
Transmission Charges $ 14
One out order at $40
Listing Fees $31.96
Directory Monthly Fee 9.99

Not to mention those required $300 design guides I got hit with twice in a year and a half. If you can tell me how to make money with the WS, I am all ears! Trust me, I will listen and give you proper kudos if you can consult me to that end.

You run the numbers. Would you stay in the game? Now you might say that I am just not marketing well, blah, blah, blah.....depends on the target. I am not targeting WS sending orders. I am marketing my local area and wedding business. I am in a small market area and as long as I market with that in mind, I am profitable. I have 3 part-time employees but I am the only designer. I am growing at a respectable rate now that I have changed my WS policies in the last year. They were like a giant weight on my butt.

I guess what the filling florists here would like to see is some loyalty from their fellow industry friends. A noble thing, I guess, but I will accept some respect alone for our argument instead of being told that we don't know our numbers, accounting, finance, and businesses. In return, you have my respect for making money with the WS. I still look upon the WS as my competition and an enemy to the industry even though you are happy with them.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe, You are right about the sympathy business. The funeral home is about one block from me but there is a flaw in your theory. I never filled more than 5 WS orders for a funeral and I don't have the outgoing orders to balance the filling.

Inferno, I have always maintained that and had stated it here many times, if your incoming ws business can't cover the associated fees of wireservice membership, you should not be a member.

There is a point where a flower shop is too small and a point where the volume of WS is so large to make membership unprofitable.

One question, you place labor in as a variable cost, why? After you dropped your WS affiliation did you fire any employee or is that employee still employed?

It makes a difference. Labor is not variable with regards to my WS affiliation, that designer, sales clerk, delivery person will still be employed whether I fill WS orders or not.

That is why I keep talking about manageable levels of acceptable WS business.

joe

 

[bloomz]

Every florist should be allowed to do their own accounting and not be brow-beaten or ridiculed into dumping the WS business by anti-WS florists.

Quote of the week there

Quad ditto to what Joe Ryan and Cathy said, and even bloomz without the sarcasm.

Joe posts real life experiences with numbers to prove it, and OT sez he's playing sleight of hand and somehow tricking people.


Why would Joe do that? His reputation here is exemplary, for posting helpful stuff and being a major contributor. This is actually very helpful stuff - Joe has a command of numbers I wish I had.

Bigger question I just can't figure out - is what is OT's agenda? It was a bit more plain on the Costing thread - he wanted to sell us more flowers.

Joe do you own FTd/800 STOCK? IS Joe in line for next FTD CEO, since they are looking?

Twila and I were discussing yesterday how someone does something and says everybone else should follow suit. Message board persona I guess.

The anti wire diatribes sometimes get so passionate (for lack of a better term) that they become almost counter productive. It almost reminds me of those annoying bible thumpers to do Christianity a disservice by alienating people.

Of course it won't work in a town of less than 1000 people Inferno (correct me if I'm wrong)

But it can and does work, and please someone show me a big successful florist in a decent sized city who doesn't use a wire service.

crap I shouldn't have typed this before I had my coffee - I don't make much sense when I do that

oh well...

opinions vary