Wire Services... If you could get them to change

[goldfish]

Nobody wants the cheap orders. Those orders would just sit there until the consumer came up with more money.

Then how come FTD.com continues to advertise cheap arrangements? There must be someone, somewhere, filling those orders. Bottom feeders in aquarium jargon, so to speak. Our shop, too, sometimes does a bottom-feeding job. Tough least appreciated, bottom feeders are integral members of any healthy community tank.

Pleco

 

[Griff]

Sorry, Love, but you missed the point

No, it isn't fair. The reason is this.

For 0-100 florists, they always get the deal they specify; when they receive incoming orders from 20-80 florists, they are allowed to get a 100% deal or reject it.

For 20-80 florists, they do not always get the deal they specify; when sending out the order to a 0-100 florist, the 0-100 rule dictates, not 20-80.

While it is theoretically possible for 20-80 florists to get 100% incoming orders from the same 0-100 florists as you said, in reality it rarely happens. Because these so-called "0-100" florists would be using FTD/TF to send out their orders to earn 20% commissions. That's where the money is as we all know.

No, it is fair. Because those 0-100% florists don't belong to any WS. There not in any alternative 20-80 program. They currently send ALL their orders now 0-100%. There the only ones that seem to understand how much THEIR floral design work is really worth and how much the receiving florist should get to do the job right.

The 20-80 florists that are currently in multiple 20-80 programs such as FTD and FSN, as you are, have no way to ever get away from that type of program and away from everyone who is ordergathering against you in your area.

Well, they should. We have been a member of FSN, so we know what you are talking about above. The system you mentioned inherently favors pseudo-"0-100 florists," who are 0-100 only in receiving and in fact are 20-80 in sending (using FTD/TF). Basically they want to be a predominantly sending florist.

Again, sorry, but there is no such thing as a "pseudo 0-100" florist. And they are predominantly a sending only florist because once you leave the WS and the "pseudo wire services", they're not listed in most directories to send them orders. They have to depend entirely on their local business for survival. What an interesting concept.

The outcome would be different if, and only if, big players like FTD/TF/Bloomnet also allowed the choice of commission, 0% or 20%, or better yet, any percentage point each member florist choses.

And what you would end up with is a program that orders would only be sent to the HIGHEST DISCOUNT in the area. Not the best florist or even the florist that is closest to the recepient, but the florist that is willing to LOSE the most money.

What would happen if they allowed this flexible-commission system, is anyone's guess and hard to predict. But if they did, I'm almost certain that the pendulum of reward would swing back to "filling florists", relative to the current point which is artificially held in a heavy favor of "sending florists". That's what I meant by "self-correcting."

The pendulum won't swing anywhere. The senders will continue to send to the highest discounters and the OG's will continue to do what they do and the hard working florists will continue to lose money.

The main point about this thread is that no matter what things or areas of interest florists think the WS should persue, it isn't going to happen! As BOSS as so well pointed out, can you imagine the problems you would have with a WS controlled health care program or your retirement account if you have a great deal of trouble now even transferring your CC business or website address.

 

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

I don't think this works. Nobody wants the cheap orders. Those orders would just sit there until the consumer came up with more money. You have to have some sort of cram-down ability to keep the system moving.

I disagree...because I believe in the free market enterprise system. Obviously the lowest order price could not be some ridiculous low cost, and the system would have to have some baseline levels, but if potentially profitable orders started piling up I would almost guarantee a new type of shop would come into existence with a smart, motivated owner that would learn how to turn a profit with those low end orders.

The history of the success of modern capitalism is replete with examples of this sort of market driven success stories, and there is no reason to believe it would not happen in this case too.

 

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

The thing is I have actually e-mailed the FTD.com CEO, I have e-mailed the CFO, I have e-mailed David Soenen. I have so much desire to create an environment where a florist can make a buck, etc....

...
I can go on and on, but I need to let FTD know if I want change. If FTD are ever put in the hot seat it can be documented that FTD was notified of these issues, but chose to ignore them in order to keep the order volume high.

I have had FTD answer me back & they are in no hurry to change and they already know the florist is getting hte less than desirable half of the stick.
They are fully awre of the profit they make on the florist side of the operation.
...

Hey, it's great to see you here on FlowerChat and we always love our new members, but let me whisper you a little secret...come closer now...

FTD DOES NOT GIVE A @@@@ ABOUT YOUR OR YOUR SHOP. ALL IT REALLY WANTS IS TO INCREASE ITS BOTTOM LINE PROFITS TO MAKE ITS SHAREHOLDERS AND WALL STREET HAPPY. THEY WILL LIE, CHEAT, AND STEAL FROM YOU UNTIL YOU GO BROKE, THEN STEP ON YOUR CORPSE ON THEIR WAY TO DO THE SAME TO THE NEXT FLORIST DUMB ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THEIR LIES.

With much love...

 

[Jerry]

Thanks Mark I got my laugh for the day. That was just, way to good.

Maybe we should all just wisper our thoughts from now on. YELLING, talking, mumbling, and even thinking have not changed much of this industry through the years.

 

[goldfish]

No, it is fair. Because those 0-100% florists don't belong to any WS. There not in any alternative 20-80 program. They currently send ALL their orders now 0-100%.

OK, please allow me clarify a few points, just to make sure that we actually disagree on anything...

1) Do you agree or disagree that, in the past (or perhaps even now), there used to be some florists who belonged to a WS-alternative (FSN, Floralsource, etc) as 0-100 yet belonged to FTD or TF at the same time?

2) Just for the sake of argument, let's say I was correct and there were in fact such "pseudo-0/100" florists. If that's the case, do you agree or disagree that these florists kept FTD/TF, most likely because they wanted to keep 20% commission for wire out?

The pendulum won't swing anywhere. The senders will continue to send to the highest discounters and the OG's will continue to do what they do and the hard working florists will continue to lose money.

My simplistic view of WS market is that it is currently held in a heavy favor of order senders, in other words, seemingly way off the original "equilibrium" point in the first 50-60 yrs of WS history.

I don't want to sound too abstract, but here's what's in my head... When there is a state off the equilibrium (like a pendulum held at 45-degree angle), there must be something, some kind of energy that is holding the state off the equilibrium, don't you agree? Like a hand holding the pendulum. If you then remove whatever is holding the state off the equilibrium, the "freed" pendulum would swing back.

I was just wondering what was holding the WS state at such an off-balance state, in a heavy favor of order senders. One idea, which is no more than a mere possibility, is this static 20-80 commission scheme which was developed before "send-only" florists came in.

So my thinking goes... if we can't get rid of "send-only" florists, is it possble to tinker with the 20-80 system to "release" the energy that is holding the WS off balance.

The main point about this thread is that no matter what things or areas of interest florists think the WS should persue, it isn't going to happen! As BOSS as so well pointed out, can you imagine the problems you would have with a WS controlled health care program or your retirement account if you have a great deal of trouble now even transferring your CC business or website address.

All I can say is that after seeing so much disappointment, people tend to become unncecessarily perssimistic. If someone says one thing, all the "experienced" people say "No, it won't work." This won't work, that won't work, nothing works, no hope, etc. That's really not good for your mental health. You someties have to "pretend" to be naive, you know, just to cheer up buddies.

 

[Sher]

Can we get back to the three basic questions????

What are you looking for in a wire service?

What services should a wire service provide?

How are the current ones not meeting your needs?

Some have answered the questions and I thank you...and others have run with it into a whole other direction...I am just looking for answers to the above three questions? Thanks
Sher

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

C'mon guys (gals)....

What are you looking for in a wire service?

What services should a wire service provide?

How are the current ones not meeting your needs?

Some have answered the questions and I thank you...and others have run with it into a whole other direction...I am just looking for answers to the above three questions? Thanks
Sher

Why do we do this?? (Bobby Norton continues to laugh at us)

Sher...most of us require VERY LITTLE....these days anyway!!
We need an integrated order transfer system
We need a common directory of florists.
We need a system where quality "issues" are dealt with quickly and HARSHLY!!
We need specific quality assurances by member florists.
We need technoligy platforms (for those florists that have no idea)
We need "geared to size" overhead costs of membership.
We need an even playing field.
We need people FROM this industry leading those that have limited experience in this industry.
We need bundled services for ALL members such as insurance, health & dental, advocacy rights, and family coverages.
We need apprentiship programs, and certification programs to guarantee the success of future industry participants.
We need a way to meet with each other from time to time!
The rest if it, we can take care of ourselves.
At this moment (I'm sure I'll be slapped up the side of my head) FTD is the ONLY service that provides ANY significant of the above needs, though the costs are out of proportion with reality in most smaller/medium shops!

 

[sfox]

What a laugh

At this moment (I'm sure I'll be slapped up the side of my head) FTD is the ONLY service that provides ANY significant of the above needs, though the costs are out of proportion with reality in most smaller/medium shops!

Mickey, you are really a funny guy. I really can't stop laughing? The only reason FTD provides any of your supposed services is because the are hughly profitable for FTD. They need that huge profit from the florist side of their balance sheet so that they can spend huge amounts of money taking away orders from their florists. Where do you think they get all that money to pay those huge pay per click costs?

This whole string of postings displays why florists will never succeed. Florists talk about the what they would want a wire service to do for them. They should be looking at what the wire services are doing to them.

Here's my suggestions, wire services should pay the filling florist 125% of the sent amount and they should pay the sending florist 135% of the sending amount. I think this idea ranks right up there with all the rest that have been suggested. Because while we are talking about what it would be like to live never never land, the real world is killing us.

 

[flowerknife+us]

Boss Said.....Thats scary... hard enuf to move credit cards, just imagine if the hold your 401 or health insurance....


Boss from what little I know about it, I don't think they are holding anything. Just offering group rates through different companies. We will see. AI like to be an optimist until I have enough information to become a pessimist.

KNIFE'S WIFE

 

[CHR]

We need an integrated order transfer system
We need a common directory of florists.
We need a system where quality "issues" are dealt with quickly and HARSHLY!!
We need specific quality assurances by member florists.

IMO a wire service's mission stops there.

We need technoligy platforms (for those florists that have no idea)
We need "geared to size" overhead costs of membership.
We need an even playing field.

The above three on the list serve to maintain marginal operations on artifical life support and would do neither the companies nor the industry any favors.

We need people FROM this industry leading those that have limited experience in this industry.
We need bundled services for ALL members such as insurance, health & dental, advocacy rights, and family coverages.
We need apprentiship programs, and certification programs to guarantee the success of future industry participants.
We need a way to meet with each other from time to time!

Why should a wire service, a company whose mission it is to facilitate the transfer of orders, have anything to do with the above list? These types of services are traditionally provided by an Association, not a for-profit company. The FTD Association is long dead and will never come back.

I absolutely agree with Sfox.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Mickey, you are really a funny guy. I really can't stop laughing? The only reason FTD provides any of your supposed services is because the are hughly profitable for FTD. They need that huge profit from the florist side of their balance sheet so that they can spend huge amounts of money taking away orders from their florists. Where do you think they get all that money to pay those huge pay per click costs?

:wallhead: STILL don't get it eh??

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

IMO a wire service's mission stops there.

The above three on the list serve to maintain marginal operations on artifical life support and would do neither the companies nor the industry any favors.

Why should a wire service, a company whose mission it is to facilitate the transfer of orders, have anything to do with the above list? These types of services are traditionally provided by an Association, not a for-profit company. The FTD Association is long dead and will never come back.

I absolutely agree with Sfox.

OK then.....TELEFLORA is the ONLY wire service that closely resembles that which we need, and provides the services that we want!!

 

[sfox]

Here's The reason for picking FTD

"OK then.....TELEFLORA is the ONLY wire service that closely resembles that which we need, and provides the services that we want!! "

Mickey, here's the reason why I'm so focused on FTD. FTD is a public company. It's driven by profits and these profits have to be delivered each quarter. That means that if florists focused solely on FTD, it would feel the effects quickly and would have change it's attitude towards florists or risk losing Wall Streets support of which they have very little now.

Teleflora is a private company and it is much harder to to influence a private company. But if you look at the past, Teleflora has always been a follower. It lets FTD make the first move and then follows suit.

Neither of the wire services is working for the betterment of it's fee paying customers, ie florists. But since florists can never agree on anything, if you truely want to see change it this industry you have to pick the weakest target to focus on. Big Mike has to satisfy Wall Street and his Green Associates every quarter. If FTD was to have a huge drop in revenue and profits on the florists side of it's equation, both Wall Street, Green and Big Mike would have to re-examine it's policies as they pertain to florists.

 

[theRKF]

But it's those policies that produce the profits. What most florists want FTD to do is give away everything and advertise for them as well. It doesn't work that way.

Ryan

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

See Sher??.....

told you that your legitimate questions would fall on deaf ears!!
This is absolutely ridiculous!!
Sher.....I luv ya, you know.....you tried!!

 

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

Ok, good...let's approach this from the KISS point-of-view...

What are you looking for in a wire service?

A way to allow my VALUABLE and HARD-TO-REPLACE customers to send orders to loved ones that gives a value-and-quality-centric product that I can stake the hard-earned reputation of MY shop on.

What services should a wire service provide?

Very few, IMHO...the more services added just creates more complexity when the primary focus should be simply VALUE, QUALITY, and CUSTOMER SATISFACTION. Probably the most difficult part of an "ideal" WS would be payment transfers issues, but I personally feel the use of PayPal would be ideal for an application of Real Florist Wire Service (RFWS).

How are the current ones not meeting your needs??

Sher, do we really need to answer this again?? Number 1. They are competing against your for your customers dollars. 2. They have no real quality control systems in place. 3. They are large inefficient multi-tiered corporations with bloated middle management layers. 4. Did I mention they are stealing your customers with direct ship options???

I could go on, but it would be pointless. Real Florist have the technology available to pull together a wire system to evenly distribute out-of-area orders with reasonable value, but no one has introduced the tech yet. Hopefully, that may change soon....

 

[CHR]

How are the current ones not meeting your needs?

By failing to put the consumers first to help grow the sending of flowers through local florists via trust and satisfaction. Quality standards for membership on the selling and filling side are virtually non-existent. Skimming, clipping, curtailing, deception & fraud appear to go unaddressed and in fact are subsidized by and hosted by the companies responsible for policing it.

Mikey, I don't think any WS currently meets my needs 'as is'. Don't know what the 'deaf ears' comment means. I thought there was some pretty legit posts addressing the original question.

Some florists do believe WSs should reproduce a nanny state. Not me. I just don't want them to work against independent florists to undermine our credibility and/or redirect consumers to other channels or products - especially with the profits generated as a result of us utilizing their services.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Sher, do we really need to answer this again?? Number 1. They are competing against your for your customers dollars. 2. They have no real quality control systems in place. 3. They are large inefficient multi-tiered corporations with bloated middle management layers. 4. Did I mention they are stealing your customers with direct ship options???

YES...we NEED to answer these questions OVER, and OVER, and OVER again, until one of two things happens

 

[Sher]

Thank you Mikey..
Here was the point of my three simple questions:
If all we do is to continue to complain about the WS and yet we have really no plan or answer other than the same folks complaining about the same thing, or telling us how it use to be, or that anyone who is a member of a ws is wrong, etc etc..(and we have said and listened to the same stuff in a variety of threads over the past three years)...and for the most part our situation remains the same now as it did then...with a few good exceptions on the part of some hard working FC members....then what will we do when we "take back our industry"..and IMHO , I think they (ws's) are recognizing that they need to make a change..and they are ready to at least contemplate it...I would like to be one of the ones who would be able to offer some intelligent answers when they ask those three questions. I do not see "them" going completely away for some time..but maybe we could make it better..that was the reasoning behind my questions.....