Wire Services Losing members but Make Out on orders

[Tom Carlson]

WS are getting consumer attention with $29.99 prices and they can't lose as they have $15 service fee and 20% commission to fall back on. If they can't find a florist to fill, go back to the sender and get more dollars, and that is how they are capturing orders.

Unfortunately, we need wires in because our local economy is in a state of DEPRESSION. Even though we have cut our payroll drastically and now operate with no full time employees in design and delivery, we still have payroll that could be filling discounted orders.

A community of 60,000 can't lose 4,600 manufacturing jobs [auto] who were making $50,000 to $75,000 a year and not be severly hit. Our community will never return to what it was in the 90s, even if those jobs come back because the pay scale will be 1/3rd what the auto employees made.

Membership in wire services is plumenting. They have to capture orders if they want to survive. But those orders are just a bandaide, they really are not going to survive.

Right now, FTD probably holds the potential to capture the market, just because they paid way to much when buying FTD. I don't think they know the potential they have to resurect the wire service side our our industry. If they would just advertise on the morning shows, "NEED FLOWERS TODAY?" they could have it all. No one is advertising. FTD should have to promote because they way overpaid for what they got and if they don't go out and cature the everyday business, they have no chance to survive.

A customer called on Wed, ordered on Teleflora.com, specified our shop for delivery. She saw the Sugar Maples arrangment, shown as $49.95 but also avaialbe at $39.95 and $29.95 so the customer opted for the 29.95, and therefore the order did not come to us because it was below our price of $40 for a delivered order.

And she said, well I paid $14.99 for you to deliver. She was shocked that the WS kept that fee plus got a 20% commission.

After I told her what was happening, she said she would try to cancell the order. She couldn't, Teleflora found a florist who would take it for $29.95. NOW SHE IS ANGRY.

Teleflora just lost a customer, the industry may have lost a customer. CAN'T THE GURUS AT THE W.S. SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING? They really don't care because they probably see the handwriting on the wall and know that they should get all they can get now because the future for them is bleak.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

or, they "know" that we are assembling a 'firing squad"!!

 

[Rhonda]

If she had specified your shop, she should have given YOU the order either through your website or by phoning you (not after the order was already placed with TF). You should have cultivated her....brought her into your fold..... You shouldn't have lost any order but gained a FULL paying customer who calls you direct.

 

[BOSS]

WS are getting consumer attention with $29.99 prices and they can't lose as they have $15 service fee and 20% commission to fall back on.

Um, one correction Tom.... they get 27%....

One CONsumer at a time is being shown the true deal in ordering flowers from a HQ.coN or dOG, Hog or anyone but direct from the delivering florist. The tide will continue to change, and consumers will continue to share information...

The last two weeks leading up to Thanksgiving, we gave out several hundred phone numbers to our customers to call other florists direct. We shared why with most of them. One thing we are now seeing is a consumer calling and saying... "my friend told me that if I called you, you would give me the number for a reputable florist in xxxxx zip code"... which we are happy to do...

So whats happening is, not only are we educating consumers and helping them get what they are paying for, but so are other consumers too, so the speed at which the word is spreading is growing...

 

[bootcampguy]

.............................CAN'T THE GURUS AT THE W.S. SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING? They really don't care because they probably see the handwriting on the wall and know that they should get all they can get now because the future for them is bleak.

They only care about the intial sale, not the service, quality or follow-up that is needed to continue a relationship with a customer. After education, there must be "action".........There's plenty of people out there buying flowers, we just have to find them.

 

[Tom Carlson]

If she had specified your shop, she should have given YOU the order either through your website or by phoning you (not after the order was already placed with TF). You should have cultivated her....brought her into your fold..... You shouldn't have lost any order but gained a FULL paying customer who calls you direct.

Rhonda, the cultivating was done. She never was our customer for out of town orders plus she likes the convenience of shopping on line because she is handicapped and does not get out much. She will be a customer from now on, BUT and this is a big BUT, she now mistrusts sending flowers as a gift item. To a certain extent in her mind, all florists are somewhat guilty.

 

[BOSS]

To a certain extent in her mind, all florists are somewhat guilty.

I would agree with that statement... we did allow this to happen. We "could" have put a stop to it, we still can, but not enuf florists truly care to force the change.

It will happen over time.

 

[ROBSWF]

To a certain extent in her mind, all florists are somewhat guilty.

Tom,

I also agree with her! For the most part all wire service florists share responsibility!

Many of us that continue on with the wire services have been screaming for reform for years, and make no mistake about it, the wire services know exactly where many of us stand, because we have told them DIRECTLY.

Reputable, responsible trust worthy florists have been replaced with anyone, anywhere that is willing to fill a heavily discounted order, and for that reason OUR company will NEVER be able to directly or indirectly make a recommendation in which we would be willing to stake our reputation on.

The cold hard truth is, we are just as likely to make an error in our selection as they may be on their own.

That is the saddest part! Because there is very little left as far as uniform standards go.

I'm not saying that everyone is bad, because they certainly are not, I'm just saying it has never been more difficult to find the good FLORISTS.

Our company and all of us collectively hoping for change by typing on these forums can not save the sending flowers through florists or ordedgatherer model. These sales will undoubtedly come to an end, I just hope it doesn't take some of the good florists with it when the ship finally capsizes and sinks.

 

[KABERS]

Today I had a customer on the phone that was really having a hard time making a decision on a silk arrangement for a funeral service. I asked for her e-mail address, took a picture and sent it to her in less than 15 minutes. Made the sale, customer could see what she's REALLY sending and I have her e-mail for future marketing. Can the OG's do that?

 

[Rhonda]

Today I had a customer on the phone that was really having a hard time making a decision on a silk arrangement for a funeral service. I asked for her e-mail address, took a picture and sent it to her in less than 15 minutes. Made the sale, customer could see what she's REALLY sending and I have her e-mail for future marketing. Can the OG's do that?

Been there, done it....that customer is mine!!! Good work!

 

[Eric S]

I have never liked the fact that Teleflora list our shop as a possible florist to use on Teleflora.com.

So your saying that a consumer could choose a product and choose a shop but still have the order go to a different shop if their order was below our minimums?

Let me get this correct. Teleflora has a way to block or redirect an order if it falls below the minimums that are set by us? When did this happen? Or does it only work with tf.com?

Something doesn't seem right.

 

[lori042499]

Eric, anyone can send throug TF.com, they take the order at their level, what ever the customer wants...if they have already looked and saw your florist as an option and likes you and knows they want to use you and then chooses a 29.99 sugar maples arrangement that you don't make or is below your minimum, tf.com operators don't know this, until they have already sold the item...oo much time was put into the sale of the item to go back and let them know that the florist they want doesn't carry the item or the minimum is too high, so they just send to an alternate...to get the order done the way they have sold it...

This isn't good customer service in my mind....should someone come in my shop and ask for something to be sent to a specific florist in another town, I immediately look them up and have an idea of what they have to sell them first off, if atter the fact, I still look them up and fix the slae at that point when I find out that x florist has a 50.00 minimum, if they really want that florist they will pay their prices, if not THEY should be able to choose to go throught someone else....This i why I justify my 12.99 service fee, the level of service and my expertise in guidance is better than the stab in the dark ordering from these computer only, non qualification getting, order gathering, never call a customer back order gatherers do for their 12.99...I do a whole lot of research before sending my orders out, it is difficult sometimes to find a good florist, but I do my best...Tf.com, just sends onto the next "qualified" florist, not!!!!

 

[bootcampguy]

Today I had a customer on the phone that was really having a hard time making a decision on a silk arrangement for a funeral service. I asked for her e-mail address, took a picture and sent it to her in less than 15 minutes. Made the sale, customer could see what she's REALLY sending and I have her e-mail for future marketing. Can the OG's do that?

No they can't, the service side of the sale was done by you and she's yours for life if you choose to keep her and don't let her be "fished out" of your customer base. Great marketing!

 

[BOSS]

Many of us that continue on with the wire services have been screaming for reform for years, and make no mistake about it, the wire services know exactly where many of us stand, because we have told them DIRECTLY.

Change will not happen, until shops like Oberer's, McShan's, George K Walker, Martin's and others take a stance on ethics over profits. I'm not talking about these individual shops ethics, but the ethics of the companies they choose to partner with. You all know I fully understand the reasons why they do what they do, but in reality the only hope for positive change is for the "Big Boys" to demand a change or to lead the charge to take back what we once controlled.

Little pockets of small florists have little hope to change the system without the clout of the major players. One shop named above, sends out many many orders, but fills none, as they know the profit is on the sending side, and are riding the system until it ends. If they were to take a different tact, they could return the system to favor all local florists, themselves included, to a point where the profits being removed from the industry by the wires and OG's would return to help balance the filling side allowing them to continue down the road. At some point in time, there will not be enough fillers for even these large florists to continue on the sending only side...

A left coast wing nut friend of mine ahs seen the order volume drop by 50% over the last 5 years... this trend will continue, because they continue to choose to partner with someone that only has thier own interests in mind, and not those of the industry as a whole...

 

[Eric S]

Looks like Teleflora can use this to explain why it didn't go to the specific shop that is picked by the customer.

Your order will be routed to the florist you have selected. If your selected florist is unable to fill your order, Teleflora will find a trusted local Teleflora florist to deliver your order.

Also if you choose a codified product if your shop is not codified then your name doesn't come up.

I did choose a product that was $29.99 and our shop still came up. So I will assume it could be sent our store. When I choose a Codified product our shop was not on the list.

 

[Eric S]

Intresting because even the new products in the new book that use TF containers are also considered codified products. So this means if you are Teleflora you will not get orders sent to you if you are not codified.

So unless you stock those specific containers you are only going to get the non TF vased arrangement to your store. That means a lot less TF.com orders coming to our store unless I bought the vases and boxes.

 

[ROBSWF]

Change will not happen, until shops like Oberer's, McShan's, George K Walker, Martin's and others take a stance on ethics over profits. I'm not talking about these individual shops ethics, but the ethics of the companies they choose to partner with.

Mark, Your right on the mark (no pun intended)! Oberer's has been screaming, posting and talking to everyone or at the very least anyone that cared to listen about our position on the wire side of the florist industry.

Ethics are what is needed most of all, and the ethic leadership should come from the "Role Guider" the wire service themselves. I know you realize they gave up on standards years ago and pretended the problem was on the filling side - thus creating filling "taxations" and calling it quality control.

all know I fully understand the reasons why they do what they do, but in reality the only hope for positive change is for the "Big Boys" to demand a change or to lead the charge to take back what we once controlled.

I wish we had that kind of clout, the sad truth is they know our position, they know where we stood then and where we will stand tomorrow.

We don't like what is going on!

one shop named above, sends out many many orders, but fills none, as they know the profit is on the sending side, and are riding the system until it ends.

That would be us, and let me explain our position;

As for handling the incoming orders- The problem with incoming orders is "Orders" have moved into a catalog of recipes that we feel do not meet our criteria for Value.

By this I mean we can't justify filling an order that cost a consumer an inflated amount of money by the sending side tacking on as much as $15-$20 in service fees.

In our mind the perception that the sender has on what the arrangement should look like for the money they were charged just don't make sense, thus creating a greater possibility for a complaint beyond our control.

The orders we send are almost all "generic in nature" with few exceptions. Our sales staff has been trained extensively to educate the customer on the dangers of sending outside our delivery area. We send out designer choice orders for a dollar amount, and leave it to the receiving shop to make the best decision.

We're not milking the system by any means, and I know you understand where we are coming from. Simply put we can't fill incoming FTD orders because they don't meet our most minimum standards of value for the dollar, and we can't possibly change our design room efficiency to accommodate orders that will greatly effect our work flow.

It's just a business decision that in some ways works out in all of the markets in which we operate because there are many florists looking to fill those incoming ftd.com orders.

I hear your pain, and believe me you have a friend with Oberer's Flowers in this fight!

I'd love nothing more than to see this mess cleaned up, and we've been screaming for SAF or anyone else to come to the table and attempt a Wire Service Summit of sorts.

We'd be more than happy to use any clout we may have to offer up a solution, heck we'll travel to any meeting, anywhere to be part of making things better for everyone!

It's our responsibility, not just because it's good for our business and good for our industry, but because IT'S BEST FOR ALL CONSUMERS, EVERYWHERE!

 

[ROBSWF]

Mark,
One other thought about your post.

It's been a long time since the wire services sought out the opinions of successful florists (of any size) all over the country.

Many of the Big Boys the wire services look to for information don't even have a retail operation, and a select few that do are extremely lopsided (favoring their OG side).

The B&M florists wire service invite for round table information are mostly comprised of companies with declining numbers in overall volumes. Their delivery counts are down, credit cards are down, walk in is down and most important in their case, incoming wires are down.

We don't fit the requirement to even be invited to either discussion.

To clarify one thing, we do take care of incoming orders from real florists, I think we had a total of 8 incoming orders last week (all markets included). We just don't fill the .com's. Our overall incoming is so low simply because real florists don't have those orders anymore, and we don't handle any wire service containers.

Incoming orders are less than 1% of our volume

 

[BOSS]

We do understand each other Rob.... but one thing I feel... I'f the shops I mentioned, banded together, and added a few more like Gary and Karl, Jon, and any number of larger volume operations they could effect change....

They together have the clout to force the chnage... they too have an option to build a better mouse trap via technology...maybe someday...

Or, they could swing their order volume over to Teleflora, and force them to choose the florists over every other aspect of the game. Sadly it looks like TF is content with their piece of the pie, rather than the whole pie.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

We do understand each other Rob.... but one thing I feel... I'f the shops I mentioned, banded together, and added a few more like Gary and Karl, Jon, and any number of larger volume operations they could effect change....

They together have the clout to force the chnage... they too have an option to build a better mouse trap via technology...maybe someday...

Or, they could swing their order volume over to Teleflora, and force them to choose the florists over every other aspect of the game. Sadly it looks like TF is content with their piece of the pie, rather than the whole pie.

there is NO reason to "think" that if even 50% of ALL florists banded together, this would effect "change", even without the larger shop operations, BUT, leadership IS the quality that florists crave, and taking a leading role, by the larger operations, could in effect, have a domino spinoff.
Mark is absolutely correct, however, size aside, if EVERYONE could just simply "ignore" the profit side of sending orders, even for ONE holiday season, and offer phone numbers to their clients, as we ALSO do in many cases, the WS milkers, would IMMEDIATELY "notice".....