WS Templates vs Independent Sites

[bloomz]

How many FTD Top 100 members use one of FTD's templates as their primary site for local customers?

Did you ever look at all the keyword-loaded 'testimonials' that surround each and every city doorway page? That site has been heavily customized and interlinked like mad.

BTW, I hadn't noticed that "FTD Florists Online" was the registered owner of WesleyBerry.net. Lovely.

Wesley is a great case in point of someone that does all those things (and then some) that we hear "you can't do" (doorways, duplicate content, images found on zillion sites, interlinking, on and on and on) yet he does them and still kicks butt.

I'm not saying it's lovely, but I am saying its effective.

With a wire service site.


Just another case in point of you'll get out of it what you put in it no matter who builds it.



That whois stuff is interesting - sure looks like ftd owns the domain...hmmmm - hadn't seen that before.

Any guesses what that means? I seriously don't have a clue.

 

[theRKF]

As you know, templates are just an outer-shell; it is what you put in it that makes it different from the rest. Moreover, any wire-service website CAN be ranked not only on the first page of Google for popular city queries, but can rank in the top 3 spot.

Mac, thank you. I have never been able to phrase my comments re: WS templates quite right.

Your paragraph above is what I was always thinking, but never could exactly put that thought into words.

Yes, a template is a container - that's very true. Most website pages are actually comprised of many templates that form the pieces of the page. FlowerChat has thousands of templates that all work together to build the site.

The problem with a "template site" isn't the fact that it's a template. The problems arise from duplicate content and duplicate appearance. Don't forget about the issues of site architecture, either!

Look at any thread on websites here. What do you see? "I love it. It's so pretty." "I love the look." "I looks too ..." People notice the look, long before they notice content or branding. When too many sites look the same, it starts to look like an affiliate or MLM program on steroids.

Site architecture and structure are important elements of SEO. Some template site providers do a better job than others at dealing with this area of web development. It doesn't matter how pretty the site is if a search engine can't crawl it or a user can't operate it.

Added: Case in point, we've established there are 15-17,000 tf sites. Since they all use the same url structure, title tags AND show mostly the same product images we can run this search. Only 4,000 tf sites have their Christmas section indexed. Glad I'm not one of those other 13,000 florists who won't be getting search traffic this season.

Ryan

 

[Joe Mioux]

o.k.

so why can't a florist use a WS template and enhance it with more SEO stuff?

why start from scratch when a florist can just keep changing meta and title tag descriptions to be better found on search engines?

joe

 

[theRKF]

o.k.

so why can't a florist use a WS template and enhance it with more SEO stuff?

why start from scratch when a florist can just keep changing meta and title tag descriptions to be better found on search engines?

joe

Maybe, if this was still 2002 and meta tags mattered, that would be enough.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Maybe, if this was still 2002 and meta tags mattered, that would be enough.

o.k then what else can the florist do?

 

[LJVF]

Look at any thread on websites here. What do you see? "I love it. It's so pretty." "I love the look." "I looks too ..." People notice the look, long before they notice content or branding. When too many sites look the same, it starts to look like an affiliate or MLM program on steroids.

For florists that use ws templates, it's important that they choose one that their competitors in their region are not already using. There are several templates to choose from to easily to distinguish themselves as different from their competitors. Also, there are a lot of customization features, including unique image and content uploading and creating new categories. The problem is that most mom and pops don't have a clue when it comes to this kind of stuff, they're so focused on the daily struggles of running a flower shop, they're not looking to the future (which has already passed btw). Like bloomz said, "you get out of it what you put into it".

I think a lot of us are so focused on SEO that sometimes we lose sight of the basics of marketing. Our websites can rank high in the search engines, but do we want them to be a representative of our businesses if they look like a piece of crap? Unlike a lot of independent websites I've looked at, the ws service templates have a clean professional look and they are very user friendly.

IMO, ws templates are not the best option but not a bad one either.

 

[Mac]

With the URL being a dead match for the keywords, don't you think they have a bit of a leg up? Here's what I found with other popular keywords:

Google Canada
Toronto ON Florist Tidy's #1, Martin's #2, torontoflorist.com #3

Flowers Toronto ON Tidy's #1, Martin's #2, torontoflorist.com #9

Toronto Flowers Tidy's #1, Martin's #2, torontoflorist.com #3

Florist Toronto ON Tidy's #1, Martin's #3, torontoflorist.com #6

Google US

Toronto ON Florist Martin's #1, Tidy's #2, Torontoflorist.com #3

Flowers Toronto ON Tidy's #1, Martin's #4, Torontoflorist.com #6

Toronto Flowers Tidy's #1, Martin's #2, Torontoflorist.com #4

IMO it's good to be in the top 3 across a broad range of keywords - for surfers both above and below the border. The FOL site is #1 once and in the top 3 in only half of the other popular keyword sets.

Hi Cathy, your figures are correct as usual. But I think we may be splitting hairs a bit as I was merely trying to share an example of an FOL website in good ranking rather than trying to demonstrate that www.torontoflorist.com has better SEO associated with it. In fact, as I look at the website I see a completely virgin website as far SEO goes.

As you know, both Tidy’s Flowers and Ryan’s personal family floral website are optimized by knowledgeable stewards of SEO.

As I’m sure you would agree, if you or I were given the task of aiding Toronto Florist in their ranking we could close that small gap that you noted above.

 

[BOSS]

6)Teleflora did not allow me to have links to sites like Florist Detective and others that I wanted to add. They would only approve 6 of my links.

Joan

Ya have to wonder why?... never mind :spam:

 

[master J]

Ya have to wonder why?... never mind :spam:

I managed to get the Florist Detective link on my old TF site, I think I slipped it by them before they changed the rules about links

I was also able to get all my email addresses on file with TF, sent to me in a spreadsheet.

I also had no problem dropping TF without any hassles ...

I do hear some stories on here about how they steal your info,storefronts, make it hard for you to quit, etc. but I have to say I had no trouble at all.

Maybe I just got lucky?

 

[bloomz]

I managed to get the Florist Detective link on my old TF site, I think I slipped it by them before they changed the rules about links

I was also able to get all my email addresses on file with TF, sent to me in a spreadsheet.

I also had no problem dropping TF without any hassles ...

I do hear some stories on here about how they steal your info,storefronts, make it hard for you to quit, etc. but I have to say I had no trouble at all.

Maybe I just got lucky?

No Adam - you're just smart and a doer vs a complainer perhaps?

Quitting a wire service certainly isn't rocket science yet we hear of people having trouble doing it? huh?

o-k

opinions vary

I guess

For anyone who doesn't know how to deal with wire services a quick primer.

You: "I need you to _____ for me"

Them: "We can't do that"

You: "Wrong answer - I didn't ask IF you can do it - I told you I needed it done".

Them: "But we can't do that"

You: "Then find me someone who can." OR see line 3

So many seem to forget they are nothing more than a vendor. A competing vendor who needs to be treated like a sleazy woman of the night.

I seem to have no problem getting whatever I need done - done. Largely due to above primer/lesson My friend Bill G from Memphis taught me. (No not Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top)


Looks like Adam may have taken the same class.

 

[Knife's Wife]

I managed to get the Florist Detective link on my old TF site, I think I slipped it by them before they changed the rules about links

I was also able to get all my email addresses on file with TF, sent to me in a spreadsheet.

I also had no problem dropping TF without any hassles ...

I do hear some stories on here about how they steal your info,storefronts, make it hard for you to quit, etc. but I have to say I had no trouble at all.

Maybe I just got lucky?

I have to admitt that I have not asked them for this e-mail list. I guess I assumed they would never give it up.

I do not beleive they steal your info etc. but when I cancel my site I guess I will find out whether they continue to market me but under TF.

You did get lucky with the links... I discussed several florist on here that had the link. They said they approved them before they knew what the link was about, would not do it anymore though.

I think that TF does a good job with the site, but I wanted more flexibility.

Joan

 

[CHR]

Joan -

TF emailed me the website customer list when I requested it. The first person with whom I spoke there said it was not available but like JB said, be persistent. They'll send it in an Excel file.

We sent an email letting customers know about our new site and used a small discount as an incentive to place a first order on it.

Also be sure to request TF delete your customer records.

Congratulations on your new site. You can now add links to any darn site you want! :>

Cathy

 

[David]

Also be sure to request TF delete your customer records.

Congratulations on your new site. You can now add links to any darn site you want! :>

Is there anyway to bring over customer saved information (Existing account) from a tel or ftd site? How dare anyone tell you who you can link to from your own site. I don't believe FTD has any restrictions. You can make the links your self on a fol site.

 

[Dorothy]

Speaking of links....it didn't work for me but might work for others... www.ice.com will consider your company as an affiliate with a link on your website. I can't remember what kind of $s you can make. I've ordered jewelry from them which is quite nice stuff. Btw: TF allowed me to put them on my website (I only took it off 'cause it didn't do anything for me and I didn't find time to keep updating the link for seasonal purchases).

 

[goldfish]

Unlike a lot of independent websites I've looked at, the ws service templates have a clean professional look and they are very user friendly.

In this and other web-related threads, a usual premise is that professional looks and functionality are very important ingredients in florists' websites. Without them, your site is a crap.

I'm not sure I agree. In fact, as an owner of a crappy website, I passionately disagree.

My question to all those web geeks is this:

Are you sure that consumers really expect a mom&pop local florist's website to be "professional-looking" and superbly "user-friendly"? Or is that something you hope they do?

Before I forget, there is one point I can concede here....

IF the sole purpose of a florist website is e-commerce and that's the only metric to measure the worthiness of that site, then functionality and clean looks are important. No doubt.

The question is: should a florist website be primarily an e-commerce (OG) site? As JB says, opinions vary.

By the way, I'm a pet lover, as my alias might suggest.

When I am looking at a mom&pop petshop website, I actually don't expect it to be professional-looking at all. In a rare instance when it looks professional, I actually feel it's very "cold", reminding me of a large corporation like Petco's website. There's no "mom&pop" feel into it.

So, yes, when I look at a mom&pop petshop website, I expect it to be NOT professional looking. I expect it look crappy... and, mind you, the crappy looks doesn't bother me at all. Is it just me? I don't know.

Instead of professional website looks, I want to see a distinct, unique feeling of the mom&pop petshop, unlike Petco's. (e.g., http://www.selmerspetland.com/) They are a small local business; it "shouldn't" look like Petco's.

Yeah, I am aware of the difference between petshop websites and (most of) florist websites. Petshop sites are not an e-commerce site.

I understand that many of web geek's florist websites are optimized for e-commerce. Fine. I am just not sure that it should be the ONLY way.

 

[LJVF]

In this and other web-related threads, a usual premise is that professional looks and functionality are very important ingredients in florists' websites. Without them, your site is a crap.

I'm not sure I agree. In fact, as an owner of a crappy website, I passionately disagree.

goldie, I would not consider your site "crappy", I consider it unorthodox. If it was "crappy" I would not visit it as many times as I do, you've got a lot of interesting things going on.

Some "crappy" symptoms are a site that is full of grammar errors, poor looking arrangements, poor looking photographs, poorly organized, confusing and navigation errors.

My question to all those web geeks is this:

Are you sure that consumers really expect a mom&pop local florist's website to be "professional-looking" and superbly "user-friendly"? Or is that something you hope they do?

Yes, particularly in the higher populated regions. But I will agree there is a demographic that a mickey mouse website will appeal to, but I think that demographic is very small.

Before I forget, there is one point I can concede here....

IF the sole purpose of a florist website is e-commerce and that's the only metric to measure the worthiness of that site, then functionality and clean looks are important. No doubt.

The question is: should a florist website be primarily an e-commerce (OG) site? As JB says, opinions vary.

Not necessarily, but with the trend of online shopping growing every year, I'm afraid the age of a non-ecommerce florist will become an endangered species. IMO it is very important for florists to keep up with the times and even try to stay ahead or they will be left in the dust. Now this is a different story for wedding and event production type florists. E-Commerce is not a necessity, well at least for now it isn't. But I do feel a non "crappy" website is important regardless. I feel their website is a reflection of the type of work they do.

By the way, I'm a pet lover, as my alias might suggest.

When I am looking at a mom&pop petshop website, I actually don't expect it to be professional-looking at all. In a rare instance when it looks professional, I actually feel it's very "cold", reminding me of a large corporation like Petco's website. There's no "mom&pop" feel into it.

So, yes, when I look at a mom&pop petshop website, I expect it to be NOT professional looking. I expect it look crappy... and, mind you, the crappy looks doesn't bother me at all. Is it just me? I don't know.

It depends on which definition of "crappy" you're referring to, yours or mine? If mine then yes it would bother me, if yours then no it wouldn't.

I'm wishing I chose a different word other than "crappy" in my original post lol

 

[theRKF]

Echoing Darrel, I think that the Flowers insolita website is not crappy - while dated in look, the form and function are viable. Crappy sites would ones that dramatically change appearance from page to page, anything that involves horiontal scrolling on a 1024 screen, inconsistent navigation, out-dated content or poorly written copy.

Those florist sites are abounding in quantity.

My contention would be that it's important for Mom & Pop shops to have a site that reflects the character of their business - without sacrificing function and ease of use for the customer. That's why Strider offers custom designs, and that's why I love www.belvedereflowers.com so much. Adam has a family shop and went all-out to portray that. No sign of corporate coldness anywhere.

Ryan

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Ryan your post #53 in this thread had a small check here link in it, I clicked and it came up mostly christmas flowers from Sears.

However, there was also Secret Garden Florist in Columbia MO. There were Christmas Images on the Home page, but the HTML (View Source) had nothing in Meta Description related to Christmas.

Looked like a TF site. Shouldn't someone have updated that Meta Description for those Home Page Christmas images, or does it not matter?

I thought you were suppose to update your Meta info. when you changes page content.

Thanks, for the info here that helps everyone with their sites.

 

[bloomz]

So the old argument that runs its cycle here is specious. That argument is "WS templates are inferior because everyone has them and florists need to distinguish themselves from the rest."

I had to go look it up, and I love that word specious, especially in this context.

:rofl: :bouncy: :ryan:

I learned a new word today!

and I concur completely

and I know

opinions vary.....

 

[CHR]

Specious adj.

1. Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious: a specious argument.
2. Deceptively attractive.

Huh? We have thread after thread after thread of first hand accounts of florists whose web performance increased - most substantially increased - after moving from a WS platform. I'm the author of one of those threads.

Go back & reread Joe's entire post from which his quote came. His assumptions & numbers were... um..... wrong... some might say "specious". Myself & others spent considerable time explaining both the numbers and the 'why's'.

Also, did you read Joan's list of why she chose to move from a WS template?

I have had a heavily customized TF site since 2004, It has rank well in searches because I worked to get it listed everywhere from the beginning and customized it. Our site did very very well. but here is why I decided to change.

1) $3.00 per order was killing us with how many orders we receive.

2) e-mail list that was generated from the orders was not available to me. I had to record all info off each order my self and create a data base. My Strider site does that Automatically!

3)The marketing they did to my customers was only their special and did not have very good click through. Maybe 2 orders a month.

4)Teleflora drove me to drink with constantly adding a million new pics every few months and then I would have to remove them from the site and reprice the ones I wanted to keep. They would not listen to the fact that florist would like them added to the list , but let us activate them as we see fit for our site.

5) My favorite part is that I can create my own pages with information gallery whatever I want and change them on the fly.

6)Teleflora did not allow me to have links to sites like Florist Detective and others that I wanted to add. They would only approve 6 of my links.

If a florist has to spend the time customizing & optimizing to get a WS template site ranked well, he/she would most likely be better off using that energy on a site that 1) costs less to operate, 2) doesn't add 'surprise' tems or change prices on its own, 3) allows him/her to choose and create content including informational articles and 4) doesn't look like a bunch of competing sites to search engines and new users.

Again, I ask... how many FTD Top 100 members use a WS template for their primary site?