A Gay Bishop?????

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mikey, remind me to hug you when I see you. Jim, consider yourself hugged.

Personally, I do not subscribe to or understand any form of racial, religious, politicial or sexist discrimination. If we all loved and respected each other a little more, we'd all be a tad better off.

Audra
 
I've already *hugged* Jim...Mikey, Luc and Audra are in for the real deal on Monday. :) I've never been a hellfire and brimstone kind of girl...don't subscribe to that in ANY part of my life.

I might even give Blue a hug if I ever get the opportunity...sounds like he could use it. ;)

See you Monday...I'm out of here very shortly...and happy about it too. Safe journey to all who are travelling.
 
Thanks Victoria

Blue never intended to be lashing out at Gay's nor did I think that speaking on this subject would create such a stir on the Flowerchat community.

So you can tell that Blue is a Conservative and not a Liberal.

and No I aint going to punch my Momma for bringing me up a Conservative even tho I was dragged into church every Sunday.;)

Here is to a BIG HUG for all of you!.
 
I do not think anybody has hit on the real reason why this is causing uproar. If this is the Catholic Church, aren't all priests, nuns’ etc. supposed to be celibate? Are they not married to God? Then, it should not make any difference what their sexual preferences are. Why must it be made public? I do not hear my priest announcing his sexual preferences during his homily on Sundays. I would not know or care whether he is gay or straight. I personally think it is a good idea to have a permanent union between two people (gay or straight) but I cannot condone the idea of a gay Bishop. If the gay population would like to get married then what is wrong with a civil ceremony?
 
Deflorist,

This Bishop is not a member of the Catholic church. He is a member of the Episcapol (sp?) church, which as a faith in general has always been very tolerant of gays.

Jim
 
Originally posted by jbarb
I always find it interesting how quick people are to make reference to the bible when it comes to things that they do not agree with such as gays etc. yet they can be so quick to ignore the bible when it comes to supporting things like war.
After all the bible does not say "Though shalt not kill unless it is an Iraqi" or an "Arab" etc.
I actually stopped going to church for several years because I could not listen to anymore speeches about how we should be giving money to the church. In that case the pastor of our church was driving a new caddilac every year and had just bought a $600,000 home, while we were struggling to survive.
The pastor that brought me back to the church was gay. His sexual preference was none of my business. His teachings were what I went to church for. My wife and I have several gay friends some of the them couples that have been together for 25 or more years. Unlike most of the straight friends that I have who have been married several times each.
The bible also says that a woman that has been married and has been divorced shall never remarry for it is considered adultry. Why does that never come up in these conversations.
The teachings of Christ are love, tolerance, forgiveness. They are not - war when it suits you, judgement against others when it suits you, holding the bible up as a reference only when it suits you. If your going to qoute the bible and use it as a reference against people that you do not agree with, than you had better be living that perfect holy life. After all "let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone"

Jim

Jim,

I thought a while about your post, and I have to say I agree with its content, if not the intent.

Yes, people feel free to throw around references to the Bible when it suits them - and yes, often it is glossed over when convenient. However, I do feel compelled to remind you that on issues of war I DID deal with Bible references there, just as I do (when appropriate) on the issue of divorce - or child raising, the use of money, marriage, personal character, etc, etc, etc.

I stand by the Bible as my standard of truth. I am always VERY willing to be proved wrong, if you can show me where my opinion differs from God's Word. If that's the case, I ask you, in friendship and love, to PLEASE correct me. Please remember, also, that it is sin NOT to lovingly address a brother or sister Christian who shows a pattern of sin in their life (Matt 18).

My question on this issue is, how can a man whose lifestyle is against the teaching of the Bible be allowed to teach & lead? We wouldn't have a career criminal as our police chief, correct? (PLEASE don't take that example too far - only showing the conflict in roles, no more than that!)
 
A thought then, on the BIBLE....

how did the "VIRGIN" Mary have a child?? how did our beliefs wain when it came to explaining how the north star pointed to Bethlehem, and why was it that GOD allowed HIS only child to die for our sins, when it IS a sin to kill??
Did GOD allow killing??...did HE forget to check in from time to time, to see how HIS SON was doing??
The BIBLE is a collection of stories and recollections, of some VERY WISE people, many years to assemble, and many years to write...and though the TRUTHS of the BIBLE, to which I subscribe wholely, and openly, should I ALSO blindly cast aside a portion of society to blind faith??
IF I blindly accept this teaching, then all children of GOD, are NOT created equal, and BECAUSE I believe that ALL children of this earth are born equal, with LESS than equal opportunities to live a life that matches their "neighbours", then we ARE NOT EQUAL, and those of us that are "more equal than others" should have the power to destroy and kill those that are "different" than us.
ALL we need to do, is decide, WHOM it is that we should be modelled after, and let the rest turn to dust, or cattle feed!
We CAN argue, we CAN discuss, we CAN disagree, and we CAN accept..so SHOULD WE??
Mike
 
Thank you, Jim for filling me in on which religion we are talking about I had somhow got the impression that it was the catholic church
 
Ryan,

A couple of points to your last post but this one will be quick I have to get out of here and get packed, I'm going on vacation in the morning. I may respond further when I get back, I want to think about your questions.
However for now,

first of all, my other post was not directed at you personally or at your post it was my thoughts on the subject.
As to the point of a man that is teaching the word of God yet living a lifestyle that is against the word. This is such a huge area of discrepancy if not hipocracy that it almost does not even apply to our world today. Does that make it right? Not for me to say. But as you used the police chief being a criminal as an example, this can apply to so many things that we all do on a day to day basis as well as members of the clergy that go against the word of God, how can we feel anything less than hipocrits ourselves for pointing the finger at someone for one specific thing such as the gay bishop. How about points such as " It will be more difficult for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle" Do you know that the Pope is one of the wealthiest men on the planet? Yet he leads his flock, a large percentage of whom live in poverty while he lives in utmost luxury.
Obviously this is not the forum for a long theological debate. I just wanted to respond and like I said, I will give it some further thought and see if I can answer your post more intelligently when I have a chance.

Jim
 
Jim,

For a quick answer, I'll direct you to a good resource outlining my thoughts on the Catholic Clergy.

http://www.gfcto.com/articles/religions/articles.htm

I suggest starting with this one:
http://www.gfcto.com/articles/religions/wyd-right.htm

As for Mikey's post ... I'll try to answer in the morning, when I have a better functioning brain :loopy

1 John 1
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
 
Have anyone of you read the Bible, Kings James version,verse by verse and chapter by chapter?

Have you even attempted to bring in the Strongs Concordance as a Companion to reading the Bible?.

It will unlock what your reading...I suggest you get Strongs.
 
Blue,
yes, several times as well as 17 years of Sunday School, Catachism class, youth walter league vice president of southern california chapter, 4 years of church sponsered pre seminary training from a one time thought of entering the clergy etc. etc....
 
Originally posted by Blue Oyster Cult
Have anyone of you read the Bible, Kings James version,verse by verse and chapter by chapter?

Have you even attempted to bring in the Strongs Concordance as a Companion to reading the Bible?.

It will unlock what your reading...I suggest you get Strongs.

Blue,

I'm an NASBu reader myself (same approach to translation as the KJV, with more texts to work with), but I use ESV, NIV and NKJV in my study as well. Strong's is an invaluable resource, as well as having 1 or more good commentaries (i.e. Matthew Henry) and a Bible dictionary (Vine's ?).

Ryan
 
Re: A thought then, on the BIBLE....

Originally posted by Mikey the Flower Guy
how did the "VIRGIN" Mary have a child??
It was an act of the Holy Spirit - not a physical union, as per Greek mythology, but a unique act of God. It was necessary for her to be a virgin so that Christ was not of the line of Adam - He was in fact the "New Adam."

how did our beliefs wain when it came to explaining how the north star pointed to Bethlehem,
Not sure where you get THAT from. Wise men travelled "from the East" therefore they travelled WEST - not North. Remember, this was a "new star" that signified great things for them.

and why was it that GOD allowed HIS only child to die for our sins, when it IS a sin to kill??
Did GOD allow killing??...did HE forget to check in from time to time, to see how HIS SON was doing??
Yes, killing is a sin. Remember, Christ prayed for forgiveness for those who put Him to death. Remember also, that Christ died in our stead - WE deserved death, as punishment for sin. He willingly took our place, our punishment, so that by His righteousness we might enter heaven.

The BIBLE is a collection of stories and recollections, of some VERY WISE people, many years to assemble, and many years to write...and though the TRUTHS of the BIBLE, to which I subscribe wholely, and openly, should I ALSO blindly cast aside a portion of society to blind faith??
The Bible was written over ~1600 years by nearly 40 different men, yet is consistent in doctrine throughout, pointing to Christ from the first book of Genesis right through to Revelation. Clearly, this kind of authorship can only be devinely inspired, and thus as the Word of God should be studied, learned, accepted and obeyed.

IF I blindly accept this teaching, then all children of GOD, are NOT created equal, and BECAUSE I believe that ALL children of this earth are born equal, with LESS than equal opportunities to live a life that matches their "neighbours", then we ARE NOT EQUAL, and those of us that are "more equal than others" should have the power to destroy and kill those that are "different" than us.
No one is asking you to "blindly" do anything. A study of the Bible shows all ARE equal, created in God's image. No one is to be cast aside, either - Remember Christ's parable of the lost sheep? The lost coin? Those outside the faith are to be pursued with love and a goal of restoration to God, NOT cast aside. That's a pharasaical attitude that Christ often condemned in the leaders of His time. Equal value doesn't mean tolerating of sin. It means all are precious to God, therefore precious to all Christians.

ALL we need to do, is decide, WHOM it is that we should be modelled after, and let the rest turn to dust, or cattle feed! We CAN argue, we CAN discuss, we CAN disagree, and we CAN accept..so SHOULD WE??
Mike
Whom to be modelled after? Easy - Jesus Christ, the sinless perfect man, the Son of God. This Jesus who was not afraid to get His hands dirty in ministry, who spent time with the lowest of the low, never condoning sin, but calling them to a better life in Him. Someone earlier mentioned the story in John of the woman caught in adultery, where Jesus said "Let him without sin throw the first stone." Everyone left, because no one was righteous enough to condemn - BUT Jesus immediately told her she was forgiven, and to "sin no more." Not cast aside, but not remaining in sin. The message of the gospel, as presented by all the apostles is "Repent and believe." Turn from your sin AND have faith in Christ. Both are part of the package.
 
Learned so much lately aboout religion it is un believable....
I won't have to go to church this sunday with everything I read. I thing I want to mention is that you all behave real good and didnt bash anybody's religion and I hope respected each other views on things.
Now can someone tell me this. At FTD conferences etc and there is a large number of people gather for dinner, why isnt graced said????
Luc
 
If I understand everything that I have heard or read about religion , is it not just a theory no more no less than the theory of relativity , the big bang, etc , and every different religion is just a different theory put forward by people in a different part of the world.
 
Luc...probably because it's not "politically correct". :rolleyes:
 
Just an update , the Catholic church here sent out a letter to be read out from the pulpit , getting all parishioners to write letters, phone , fax , e-mail, etc, their local MP's and MHA's of their outrage over same sex marriages , before the upcoming vote in Parliament. A local priest refused to do anything other than pin the letter to the bulletin board, saying the Church was being hypecritical when it covered up its sexual abuse. The Bishop removed him from the pulpit at Sunday mass , telling the congregation that the priest was not following orders and wasn't being a good employee?? As much as I dislike the Catholic Church , it's amazing that the only person in it with a conscience gets removed for not blindly following a directive from the top.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.