A Gay Bishop?????

[Victoria]

A sad commentary Brian...some wingy Bishop suggesting Chretien will "burn in hell"...but apparently the offending priests, much like the energizer bunny, just keep on going. Hats off to the priest with a conscience and ethics.

The money, time and effort spent on the same sex marriage/union/whatever, would be far better spent cleaning up the disgusting mess that seems to be rampant in church.

 

[Audra]

Ah but Catholic priests aren't suppose to be opinionated, they're suppose to be obeiseant. Catholic priests with opinions have been known to be problematic...

They tend to hammer a list of grievances to church doors and start things that the hierarchy would rather not deal with.

Audra
Who thinks we're due for another Reformation

 

[theRKF]

Hehehehe ....

Audra, the reformation is in progress.

If you can forgive my poor graphics (which are soon to be updated), check out www.sgfcanada.com.

Ryan
Who loves Luther references

 

[Audra]

Originally posted by Infinite
Hehehehe ....
Audra, the reformation is in progress.

If you can forgive my poor graphics (which are soon to be updated), check out www.sgfcanada.com.

Ryan
Who loves Luther references

Sorry Ryan, but I don't view that as the type of Reformation I'm talking about. Those sects are always contemplating reform of some sort.

I'm thinking that we're rapidly approaching a time when the Catholics, Anglicans and Lutherans are going to have to seriously re-evaluate how they view certain topics. I'm a personal faith person, evangelism of any sort peeves me off (so we won't go there).

Audra
Med-Ren history type

 

[Victoria]

Originally posted by Audra


I'm thinking that we're rapidly approaching a time when the Catholics, Anglicans and Lutherans are going to have to seriously re-evaluate how they view certain topics. I'm a personal faith person, evangelism of any sort peeves me off (so we won't go there).

Audra
Med-Ren history type

Close to my thinking as well Audra. Change is necessary. I'm an inclusionary kind of person and will not engage in denigrating any one who has different beliefs or life style.

There was a time, not too long ago where women were considered chatels, sub-standard, necessary only for procreation (or whatever)...thank goodness for change, at least in this part of the world.

So yes, change is possible, more important, it is necessary.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

for TWO THOUSAND YEARS...

there WAS some sort of order to things, good OR bad, and now there is NO order...I'm not SURE that changing ALL things can be considered "inclusionary"....
The "alteration" of beliefs is unlikely, the methods used to "honour" those beliefs has decayed into dissolusionment, and those that ARE true believers, now occupy the minority.
Most people "say" they believe...and they lie with this conviction on their face, when you question their levels of commitment.
Marriage is on the decline, "I DO" means "I MIGHT" and governments seem to think that THEY know what's best!!
We NEED to strip any and ALL governing bodies of ANY rights they have to altering YOUR rights to believe, in that which you will, and ONLY THEN, will people feel safe to "worship" again....
Just because it's a "free" society, does NOT mean, you are free to believe AND speak your religious order without ridicule.
We NEED serious help....
Mike :help:

 

[Audra]

Re: for TWO THOUSAND YEARS...

there WAS some sort of order to things, good OR bad, and now there is NO order...I'm not SURE that changing ALL things can be considered "inclusionary"....

That order wasn't as 'orderly' as you would like to think.

Marriage is on the decline, "I DO" means "I MIGHT" and governments seem to think that THEY know what's best!!

Governments don't think anything - political parties do. The House of Commons doesn't believe anything, it's architecture - it's the people that we put there. Marriage on the decline has nothing to do with government - you can blame that little gem on the Protestant Reformation or more specifically on Henry VIII who did just about anything he could for a son.

We NEED to strip any and ALL governing bodies of ANY rights they have to altering YOUR rights to believe, in that which you will, and ONLY THEN, will people feel safe to "worship" again....
Just because it's a "free" society, does NOT mean, you are free to believe AND speak your religious order without ridicule.

Mikey, honey, I love you, you know this but that last statement has to be the BIGGEST crock of ****e I've heard in a while. Both the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the United States Bill of Rights clearly list 'freedom of religion'. People didn't stop going to church because the government told them to, people stopped going to church for a billion and one reasons that I'm not going to touch.

Personally, I stopped going to church because I knew what the priest and the nun for our parish were really like, I couldn't stomach the blatant hypocrisy of the parish council. I got tired of seeing Sunday Christians and turned to more personal options.

We NEED serious help....

Now that, I can't argue with. For those that like my references, it would appear that the barbarians are at the gate. The scary thing is that we appear to be the barbarians.

Audra

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Thanks Audra....

I KNEW I'd get something right, sooner or later!!
I only used that frame of thought, because it seems to follow a path to an "intersection" where people meet, and disagree, because the "norm" appears to be "disagree FIRST, think about what you said SECOND, then cover your tracks THIRD!!"
My personal "challenge" is getting people to "admit" that they follow NO ideology, then figure out WHY it is they disbelieve so vehemently.
I'd guess it's just plain bad press, on the part of a few individuals from within ALL faiths, trying to "impose" their will!!
Mike

 

[sunny]

Could it be that after seeing the faiths and beliefs that none of them appeal to you or offer you anything you could believe in? The only tenent I hold dear is" do unto others as you would have them do unto you" the rest is just bull**** . If however someone else does believe in something I don't I don't condemn them for that.

 

[Victoria]

I too gave up on organized religion because I was sick to death of politics in and out of church. It was a difficult decision, as I had been raised in the church. It should be noted, I gave up on the church...not my faith (my faith is how I survive lifes little and not so little surprises).

The minister (a friend) talked with me and understood my decision ("regretfully"). He also knew I would live the best life I could with or without the building and the congregation.

I see the world ravaged by crazy zealots...all in the name of "God" or whomever...the God I believe in doesn't find any comfort in what He/She is seeing right now...I'm sure of that. I also know that He/She created my brother...and would not exclude him.

Audra...I can't really add any more to your rebuttal...as usual you said it well.

 

[Audra]

Originally posted by Victoria
Audra...I can't really add any more to your rebuttal...as usual you said it well.

Thanks V. Sorry if I got on the soapbox. Call it the product of too much education and a tendency towards Debate Club. I try not to let that happen too often. I'm also the product of an Irish family on my mom's side and wowee, do the conversations get entertaining.

I have no problem with people of any faith or creed as long as they follow it. I have good friends that are Buddhist, Hindu, Catholic, Moslem and Christian - I don't fear the faith - I fear the fanatic.

Audra

 

[Lady Biker Florist]

We all need to remember the fanatics are not the icon for their religion, they are the exception. Always look past the fanatic if ever truly interested in a particular religion. Especially Christian!

 

[flowerknife+us]

When the Rapture comes, The unbelievers will be known to each other. For the believers will be in Heaven.

After reading all these posts, it seems strange that no consideration has been given to the possibility of the Deviles hand in all this.

Can't help but to agree with those who find it difficult to accept the guidence of a religous teacher who so blatently violates the word of god.

It is difficult enough to follow the path of richousness, but do we really need to follow someone who so clearly walks the road to pergertory?

God has never asked us to accept the sin of others so that they may feel better about themselfs. Nor is it a case of how we "feel" or "think" or what is currently "politically correct".
We all have the equal opportunity to be saved. It's called free will.

Secular Goverments may force us to tolerate the sins of others for the sake of "peace" within society as a whole. But it can never force us to accept it.

 

[Victoria]

You were not on a soap box at all Audra...I too am from an Irish family. I'm a first generation Canadian. I grew up listening to stories about the "troubles" in N. Ireland. I was in a hotel in Belfast that was blown up the day after my family moved on...

Knife, funny you should mention the Devil. I've had that discussion many times with friends as well...we are quick to blame God for all the ills of the world...so, yes indeed, where does the "divil himself", fit it...where ever we choose to put him I would suppose.

Funny, I was thinking about you today...I was wondering if you would weigh in on this discussion...I'm glad you did.

 

[theRKF]

Originally posted by flowerknife+us
When the Rapture comes, The unbelievers will be known to each other. For the believers will be in Heaven.

After reading all these posts, it seems strange that no consideration has been given to the possibility of the Deviles hand in all this.

Can't help but to agree with those who find it difficult to accept the guidence of a religous teacher who so blatently violates the word of god.

It is difficult enough to follow the path of richousness, but do we really need to follow someone who so clearly walks the road to pergertory?

God has never asked us to accept the sin of others so that they may feel better about themselfs. Nor is it a case of how we "feel" or "think" or what is currently "politically correct".
We all have the equal opportunity to be saved. It's called free will.

Secular Goverments may force us to tolerate the sins of others for the sake of "peace" within society as a whole. But it can never force us to accept it.

With a few spelling corrections, I'm a 100% DITTO on that

 

[Audra]

That philosophy is a little too extreme for me, sorry. I'll sit this particular debate out.

Audra

 

[sunny]

As the great philosopher Spike Milligan said " True believers don't enjoy their religion, they suffer from it" , truer words have never been spoken.

 

[Victoria]

Had a thought this morning on the way to work...are we (human race) supposed to act as judge, jury and executioner or is that up to the higher power?

 

[Audra]

Originally posted by Victoria
Had a thought this morning on the way to work...are we (human race) supposed to act as judge, jury and executioner or is that up to the higher power?

I believe that we are not. I, and only I, am responsible for the state of my soul and I believe that I will ultimately answer to my Creator. While I will help out my brothers and sisters as need arises, I am not ultimately responsible for them.

Audra

 

[theRKF]

V & Audra,

Interesting thoughts...

Judge, jury, etc ... ? Yes, in a physical sense, but according to the laws from the higher power. Not upholding these laws would be disobedience. In the same mind and spirit of God, punishment is always with an eye to restoration, in a spirit of love. Eternal punishment is not our job.

Ultimate responsibility? As Audra said, always lies with each person. We can choose to reject or accept any creed or doctrine. When we answer to our creator, we'll see how our thoughts match His That said, Jesus to His apostles to "go and make disciples" from all the earth. Spread the Word? Yes. Responsible for how people receive it? No.

My thoughts