lil_goldie
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The place I have the most troulbe with your spreadsheet is
Estimate of % Profit on Orders
How can I effectively estimate this?
Approximately how many WS orders do you deliver on average per month at your store
- Thread starter domineaux
- Start date
The place I have the most troulbe with your spreadsheet is
Estimate of % Profit on Orders
How can I effectively estimate this?
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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never mind the spreadsheet, how much longer before we have a new baby to crow about??.....
lil_goldie
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5 more days until my due date....so that could be today or it could be another 14...I have no idea!never mind the spreadsheet, how much longer before we have a new baby to crow about??.....
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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- State / Prov
- Ontario
OK, so what is the point of this thread, what can you surmise from it's result??
Mikey the Flower Guy
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Shannon, deduct 29% from your orders, then divide the balance by 487, to give you a minimum per order value......and THEN determine IF it's "good/bad" for you!!
BOSS
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lori042499
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Shannon,
From what I figure and this has nothing to do with what your numbers are I figured deliveres on average cost you 5 bucks to make, and that cogs on wireins run 33%...
34594.96 worth of orders after the 27% you get 25254.00(rounded) now delivery cost you 2435.00 so down to 22819.00 less 33% of the actual arrangements value there abouts is 10612.00 for a total of 12207.00..now you need to go back and figure out how much of that number went back to teleflora for membership, dove and ads... on quick numbers that I pulled from what I pay that is an additional 2337.00 not including ads which if you have expanded text or also served by is a 30 for expanded text and 10 each for ASB...can be 50-100 a month adding and additional 500-1000 dollars taken from that dollar amount...so 12207 now becomes 9870... and then 8870... on average you have 18.00 per arrangement going towards overhead, if those were your own orders you would have 44.00 per arrangement going to overhead...
now there are other charges to consider on your combined rebort but without seeing it you just cannot tell...in the grandest scheme of things if bettina was doing this all herself and trying to make a go of things and getting the name out, that small amount going to orders may very well be worth the extra work and hassle...It was for my shop and sometimes paid the bills, but as I eliminated the companies that didn't make sense for me to fill for, ie. ogs, PITA shops, orders that I just couldn't or wouldn't fill, etc, my volume went down and whne volume goes down, that small amount plummets...and wireouts do factor into the deal for paying for some of these charges...
Where Bettina pays you and Donnie, I would imagine a healthy salary...the labor alone factors in at 6432...betwwen wages, taxes, insurance if offered, bonuses sick time etc...doesn't leave very much going to the store...then factor in how much paper, ink, hypertickets, etc...it is a break even to lose game in most instances...once you really start wittling away at the money...most shops actual local orders supplement their wireins and as some have said in the past, why should my local customers foot the bill for the wireins...The figured they could give better value in their arrangements without filling for wires and gain more traffic locally, it is a good way to look at it...
From what I figure and this has nothing to do with what your numbers are I figured deliveres on average cost you 5 bucks to make, and that cogs on wireins run 33%...
34594.96 worth of orders after the 27% you get 25254.00(rounded) now delivery cost you 2435.00 so down to 22819.00 less 33% of the actual arrangements value there abouts is 10612.00 for a total of 12207.00..now you need to go back and figure out how much of that number went back to teleflora for membership, dove and ads... on quick numbers that I pulled from what I pay that is an additional 2337.00 not including ads which if you have expanded text or also served by is a 30 for expanded text and 10 each for ASB...can be 50-100 a month adding and additional 500-1000 dollars taken from that dollar amount...so 12207 now becomes 9870... and then 8870... on average you have 18.00 per arrangement going towards overhead, if those were your own orders you would have 44.00 per arrangement going to overhead...
now there are other charges to consider on your combined rebort but without seeing it you just cannot tell...in the grandest scheme of things if bettina was doing this all herself and trying to make a go of things and getting the name out, that small amount going to orders may very well be worth the extra work and hassle...It was for my shop and sometimes paid the bills, but as I eliminated the companies that didn't make sense for me to fill for, ie. ogs, PITA shops, orders that I just couldn't or wouldn't fill, etc, my volume went down and whne volume goes down, that small amount plummets...and wireouts do factor into the deal for paying for some of these charges...
Where Bettina pays you and Donnie, I would imagine a healthy salary...the labor alone factors in at 6432...betwwen wages, taxes, insurance if offered, bonuses sick time etc...doesn't leave very much going to the store...then factor in how much paper, ink, hypertickets, etc...it is a break even to lose game in most instances...once you really start wittling away at the money...most shops actual local orders supplement their wireins and as some have said in the past, why should my local customers foot the bill for the wireins...The figured they could give better value in their arrangements without filling for wires and gain more traffic locally, it is a good way to look at it...
Just a quick comment...
WS profitability has a lot to do with COGS. If you buy all your flowers locally in onesie-twosies, then it is close to impossible to make a decent profit at ANY order volume.
But if you can get your COGS way down, then the WS contribution to bottom line performance can be significant.
If you do not understand the term "contribution," a quick chat with a CPA may help.
Bill
WS profitability has a lot to do with COGS. If you buy all your flowers locally in onesie-twosies, then it is close to impossible to make a decent profit at ANY order volume.
But if you can get your COGS way down, then the WS contribution to bottom line performance can be significant.
If you do not understand the term "contribution," a quick chat with a CPA may help.
Bill
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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wire service profitability is an obscure and an obscene re-iteration of that which once was! COGS are "easily" lost in the "anxiety" of days that are NOT busy!
WS profitability isn't that difficult.
Just take your monthly wire service fees and divide them by your total number of orders.
That is what each order cost you in fees. Then you need to add the cost to deliver each order.
That is what it cost just to pay your WS fees and the delivery of those orders.
If your WS fees were $350 per month and you delivered 12 orders your order cost you paid 29.17 for each order. Then if it cost you $8.00 to deliver each order it has cost you $37.17 per each order.
So, you deliver an arrangement for $65.00 total cost you have a total profit of $27.83 if your flowers and container cost you nothing. Whoops, you say the container cost $4.00 and the flowers cost you $6 dollars for an arrangement you delivered for $65.00... wow a $17.83 profit.
To be honest, I don't think you could acquire any flowers cheap enough to qualify as a $65 delivered arrrangement for $6.00, if you cut them out of your own backyard.
Try my little Excel spreadsheet, which has a link to download in my signature at the bottom of this posting. If you are a fill florist you will soon see there really isn't much way to make enough money to make fill orders profitable.
You can take the little spreadsheet and try all kinds of what-if analysis. You will see you have to be a sender and you need a pretty good volume of sent orders to offset losses on orders you fill and deliver.
We used WS for a little over 1 year, knowing it was a loser. We thought we could offset the lack of profits by doing high quality arrangements (better than what was bought). Effectively, we were losing money on every order, but we wanted to create customer good will and possibley build our customer base. Nope, didn't make that much difference. We did get some customers, but we paid a great deal of money to acquire those few customers. We have done better just using standard marketing methods.
Don't be deceived the big senders and OG need fill florists. They'll say or do anything to make you doubt your common and money counting senses, as long as you continue to fill their orders.
Just take your monthly wire service fees and divide them by your total number of orders.
That is what each order cost you in fees. Then you need to add the cost to deliver each order.
That is what it cost just to pay your WS fees and the delivery of those orders.
If your WS fees were $350 per month and you delivered 12 orders your order cost you paid 29.17 for each order. Then if it cost you $8.00 to deliver each order it has cost you $37.17 per each order.
So, you deliver an arrangement for $65.00 total cost you have a total profit of $27.83 if your flowers and container cost you nothing. Whoops, you say the container cost $4.00 and the flowers cost you $6 dollars for an arrangement you delivered for $65.00... wow a $17.83 profit.
To be honest, I don't think you could acquire any flowers cheap enough to qualify as a $65 delivered arrrangement for $6.00, if you cut them out of your own backyard.
Try my little Excel spreadsheet, which has a link to download in my signature at the bottom of this posting. If you are a fill florist you will soon see there really isn't much way to make enough money to make fill orders profitable.
You can take the little spreadsheet and try all kinds of what-if analysis. You will see you have to be a sender and you need a pretty good volume of sent orders to offset losses on orders you fill and deliver.
We used WS for a little over 1 year, knowing it was a loser. We thought we could offset the lack of profits by doing high quality arrangements (better than what was bought). Effectively, we were losing money on every order, but we wanted to create customer good will and possibley build our customer base. Nope, didn't make that much difference. We did get some customers, but we paid a great deal of money to acquire those few customers. We have done better just using standard marketing methods.
Don't be deceived the big senders and OG need fill florists. They'll say or do anything to make you doubt your common and money counting senses, as long as you continue to fill their orders.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Dom, why didn't you have "zero" for one of the answers? That's me!
hollyflr
Well-Known Member
I tried to present a profit in the above posting, because I wanted to be fair.
I just point to the little Excel spreadsheet thing and let readers find out for themselves.
The facts are pretty wll in... you can't make money as a fill florist. If you are fortunate enough to clear a $10 proift on each order you still have to think of all the other expenses you have just to support those fill orders.
You may not need the extra designer, or a designer... you won't have to deliver as many arrangements. The risk and exposure of putting someone into a delivery truck, is it worth it? I mean one accident with complications can make a world of difference. I realize we all take risks, but do we have to take those risks?
How many time have you gotten fill orders and in order to fill it you had to drive to another florist to borrow the "vanity container" you didn't have that was required. How many times have you had to go to wholesaler to pick an item you didn't have. Do we add all these items in as cost of goods, afterall they should definitely be factored in. If you made that trip to the wholesaler you didn't have to make, held the store open late because your driver was still out delivering orders,etc.
If you can't make a decent qualified profit on your work, you need to start thinking creatively to find a way to do that. It's just a matter of time until you will be gone from the business, especially if you are waiting on the WS for deliverance.
WS have outlived their value to brick and mortar shops.
All you have to do send orders is Google on "florist" and "name of town". The search will yield up dozens of competent florists, you can see their websites to the see the kind of work they do... and most important you can pick up the phone and call them. You can point the florist to the arrangement you need filled in their area, and will they discount as a commission and accept your CC. I guarantee it will be a done deal, and your customer will get their monies worth for the product delivery.
I just point to the little Excel spreadsheet thing and let readers find out for themselves.
The facts are pretty wll in... you can't make money as a fill florist. If you are fortunate enough to clear a $10 proift on each order you still have to think of all the other expenses you have just to support those fill orders.
You may not need the extra designer, or a designer... you won't have to deliver as many arrangements. The risk and exposure of putting someone into a delivery truck, is it worth it? I mean one accident with complications can make a world of difference. I realize we all take risks, but do we have to take those risks?
How many time have you gotten fill orders and in order to fill it you had to drive to another florist to borrow the "vanity container" you didn't have that was required. How many times have you had to go to wholesaler to pick an item you didn't have. Do we add all these items in as cost of goods, afterall they should definitely be factored in. If you made that trip to the wholesaler you didn't have to make, held the store open late because your driver was still out delivering orders,etc.
If you can't make a decent qualified profit on your work, you need to start thinking creatively to find a way to do that. It's just a matter of time until you will be gone from the business, especially if you are waiting on the WS for deliverance.
WS have outlived their value to brick and mortar shops.
All you have to do send orders is Google on "florist" and "name of town". The search will yield up dozens of competent florists, you can see their websites to the see the kind of work they do... and most important you can pick up the phone and call them. You can point the florist to the arrangement you need filled in their area, and will they discount as a commission and accept your CC. I guarantee it will be a done deal, and your customer will get their monies worth for the product delivery.
Flowermomma
Well-Known Member
Hi new here
Am I allowed to suggest a some what new wire service that charges a yearly fee of about 200. and then only 1.50 an order sending or receiving?? So they don't take a cut of the order just the sending/recieving fee of 3.oo split between the 2 shops .
I don't want to get my hand slapped my first day here if suggesting a different wire service is not allowed.
I have been using them for over a year and they are for real. I have not had any complains from my customers that I have sent orders for.
They are in Canada and can the network covers all over the world. IF they can't get it there with their shops they will send it thru that other wire service.
Melissa
Am I allowed to suggest a some what new wire service that charges a yearly fee of about 200. and then only 1.50 an order sending or receiving?? So they don't take a cut of the order just the sending/recieving fee of 3.oo split between the 2 shops .
I don't want to get my hand slapped my first day here if suggesting a different wire service is not allowed.
I have been using them for over a year and they are for real. I have not had any complains from my customers that I have sent orders for.
They are in Canada and can the network covers all over the world. IF they can't get it there with their shops they will send it thru that other wire service.
Melissa
Mikey the Flower Guy
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sure you can, as long as you are speaking from experience, and are NOT "advertising" for them......OR are asking if ANYONE ELSE has any experience with them!
Flowermomma
Well-Known Member
well ok then
I use IRIS
they are much cheaper then the other 2 big wire services and they get the job done.
www.irisadvantage.com
I can post the phone number if anyone wants it.
and for a webpage I have started using the flowers shop network. one fee for the year gets me a very nicely done website!
Melissa
I use IRIS
they are much cheaper then the other 2 big wire services and they get the job done.
www.irisadvantage.com
I can post the phone number if anyone wants it.
and for a webpage I have started using the flowers shop network. one fee for the year gets me a very nicely done website!
Melissa
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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yes, we looked at Iris as well, still have the into package around here somewhere...please let us know how you like them, the TRUE cost of membership, and how is member coverages??....
Flowermomma
Well-Known Member
Coverage has been fine. I have yet to have an order they can't fill for me.
The yearly cost was about 200 I don't have the papers in front of me. and its $1.50 when you send or receive an order. the split is 30/70 so sending with them pays more!
The yearly cost was about 200 I don't have the papers in front of me. and its $1.50 when you send or receive an order. the split is 30/70 so sending with them pays more!