Announcement Change Is Here!

[minorgrey]

It's been my experience that forums that begin charging slowly die off. Usually a core of users stay on but they have a difficult time creating new members... eventually everyone moves on to a free forum and the cycle starts again. Honestly the only way I can see this forum retaining new members is to have a "free" section that users can access. Just about every subscription forum I've witnessed has this option is some capacity. Of the professional forums I'm a part of they either do what flower chat was doing (have a vetting process), or change to invite only. HOW magazine (graphic design magazine) has a free forum, open to everyone, full of extremely well known designers and, in turn, has a deeper well of knowledge than GAG. I'm curious if the site owners did some research on this. It's pretty hard to compete against free.

I wish you guys the best of luck and thank you for the service, but I just can't afford the subscription fee.

 

[CHR]

Sorry Cathy, but if this was so important, Ryan would have included it in his opening post.

You have a gift for turning a phrase, but if this was so significant, why didn't you post it earlier.

Joe, I (am I'm assuming the other admins, too) never expected the level of vitriol and wild accusations leveled this week. Frankly, laying out each and every benefit provided through FC participation seemed unnecessary. Perhaps it should have gone in the first post.

After getting over the sting of some of the biting comments (which I admit scrambled my own brain a bit), it was time for me to step back and say 'whoa', there's much more here.

Now with that said, I am not denying what you claim is false. It probably has helped some sites. How do I measure the worth of that part of this forum on my own website?

Let's use your own shop site as an example. In Google Maps, Mioux's shows 9 local citations. Two of them are from your own site, 2 from your activity in Illinois State, 2 from your activity with the St. Louis Florist Network, one from Superpages (which is either paid or claimed since it has a link to your site in it) , one from CitySearch and one from FlowerChat.

The affect of any of those links at the local level will depend on the quality of the links going to your competitors. If other local florists have few quality links, gaining or losing one or two won't likely matter. The affect in a competitve marketplace could be more noticeable.

As far as links going to your own site in general search (be it Google, Yahoo, Bing or any other search engine), Yahoo's link command shows more than 140 of the 318 external links to your site come directly from FC with several others coming from blogs of florist friends you've made here at FC - so more than half of all your incoming links, which influence your shop's position in Search, were gained from activity here.

Glenn recently posted about how effective the use of his FC blog was in making his site more visible for quality local keyword traffic. Again, this is not a fluke. The tools here were designed and nurtured to help more local florists be found in Search. The only thing the Admin team doesn't do is write members' posts.

 

[lori042499]

Joe, I (am I'm assuming the other admins, too) never expected the level of vitriol and wild accusations leveled this week. Frankly, laying out each and every benefit provided through FC participation seemed unnecessary. Perhaps it should have gone in the first post.

After getting over the sting of some of the biting comments (which I admit scrambled my own brain a bit), it was time for me to step back and say 'whoa', there's much more here.

Let's use your own shop site as an example. In Google Maps, Mioux's shows 9 local citations. Two of them are from your own site, 2 from your activity in Illinois State, 2 from your activity with the St. Louis Florist Network, one from Superpages (which is either paid or claimed since it has a link to your site in it) , one from CitySearch and one from FlowerChat.

The affect of any of those links at the local level will depend on the quality of the links going to your competitors. If other local florists have few quality links, gaining or losing one or two won't likely matter. The affect in a competitve marketplace could be more noticeable.

As far as links going to your own site in general search (be it Google, Yahoo, Bing or any other search engine), Yahoo's link command shows more than 140 of the 318 external links to your site come directly from FC with several others coming from blogs of florist friends you've made here at FC - so more than half of all your incoming links, which influence your shop's position in Search, were gained from activity here.

Glenn recently posted about how effective the use of his FC blog was in making his site more visible for quality local keyword traffic. Again, this is not a fluke. The tools here were designed and nurtured to help more local florists be found in Search. The only thing the Admin team doesn't do is write members' posts.

What CHR has written about here is the very reason we are all failing miserably and treading water like drowning rats, not OGs, not WS our own naivety about online marketing or marketing at all....I bet the majority here have no idea what this even means, I know I don't but I should because how can we qualify what value any seo that we buy has if we have no idea how it works, I am willing to bet that I have a better understanding of my online marketing and seo than the majority of florists nationwide, not saying I know much and that is sad for those florists, I am lucky to be in a suburb and not a major metropolis where online competition is tough like CHR, Eric and others in la, philly, boston etc....

I know that I have received many corsage orders due to a link from someone here at FC...I have received orders from the link provided by Boss, people visit my website and order from the gallery, I know this from clicky, something I would have never known about had it not been for a discussion here...worth 100.00 absolutely, I am working like a mad woman over here to find the 100.00 to pony up, I will probably end up paying the 20 bucks and hope for Vaentine's to pay the 100.00....

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Well, I have been pretty dang quiet through all of this....Can you believe it?!

Anyhoo-
I have done some major thinking. I have Chatted with Ryan privately and I told him I didn't have the money to stick around.
Hey- I got $20.
After I saw Darrels post about pay $20 for the first month then if he still likes it, pay the $100. Now with Loris post, yep, makes more sense.

Even before Loris post I kept thinking that just having Phil Rulloda here is worth it for me. But I fancy myself a pretty darn good designer, and the best way to stay a good designer is to keep learning the latest and greatest...Phil has ALWAYS been cutting edge. I remember seeing his ads in the back of floral mags in the early 90's... I thought then "Who is that!"

Now with my new shop I am working for- one of my main tasks/goals is to make our website so much more than what it is. Honestly right now it's pretty dang pathetic. I am a DESIGNER, not a computer wiz kid. The funny thing is, MOST of my friends in NMSFA think I am so smart when it comes to computers! How funny is that!!

So this is my hope for MY experience that I will be paying for.
I HOPE there will be webinars for helping us all understand what the heck to do as far as SEO (I still can't remember what that means) and driving people to MY website. And I hope they are held NOT during business hours!
And I hope Phil is really active on teaching new stuff.

Those 2 things for me is worth it.

Everytime I have taken a 3 day class at TFHQTS in OKC, it ended up costing me at least $800, and that was with my Scholarships I won!

Yes, things are tight, but they will get tighter if we don't keep up. The things I have learned through FC for the past few years is what makes me so valuable to the shops I work for. I know lots of stuff and I learned a lot of it here.

I just hope not ALL of the sometimes silliness is thrown out. I am a goof ball you know. And sometimes you just need to laugh.

To my friends that are leaving, I will miss you. I hope you reconsider. I struggled all week with my decision. And My first reaction was to leave as well. I was pretty angry as well,,,right at first.

I can remember at the last NMSFA meeting. They talked about raising the dues. I told my fellow board members "To justify rasing the dues we need a product that is worth the raise."

I think this new FC will be worth it.

 

[Joe Mioux]

J
As far as links going to your own site in general search (be it Google, Yahoo, Bing or any other search engine), Yahoo's link command shows more than 140 of the 318 external links to your site come directly from FC with several others coming from blogs of florist friends you've made here at FC - so more than half of all your incoming links, which influence your shop's position in Search, were gained from activity here.

.

thanks for the response. Does this mean that 140 FC members logged into my site from here or does this mean 140 customers (non florists) found my site because of FC?

or is it that bot and spider thing as well

again thank you.

joe

 

[Connie]

Having read every word of every post of this thread, I have gone back and forth on which way to go. I appreciate all of the discussion, and am grateful to those who brought up things about which I would not have thought.

This is a very serious time, and many of the posts have made me very sad because of those who said good-by and because of the often unfavorable response to those who were honestly questioning the new venture. Especially disheartening was the you're-for-us-or-against-us-type statements.

Concerning the question of intellectual property, nothing that I have ever said here has been worth revisiting, so that concerns me only because it concerns some very bright people whom I have come to respect very much. I do, however, vividly remember how violated I felt when one of my professors in graduate school kept all of our many and assorted projects which she then made into a textbook (without even acknowledging the source of the projects) which is still being used in education classes on some college campuses today. While I do not think that Ryan would stoop to such a level, I do understand the alarm that is felt by those who have posted truly worthwhile and valuable data which they might not be able to access later.

I have held my credit card in my hand, ready to pay for the FC membership, but have hesitated again and again. One of the reasons is because many of my favorite posters, in fact 1/2 of the names that I listed in that Most Valuable Poster thread, have said that they are leaving. Then in the wee hours of this morning, it occurred to me that while $100 is not a lot of money, I owe a lot more than that. In fact, when I realized that I still need to pay 2 of my florist friends for containers that I obtained from them before Christmas, I knew that it would be both selfish and unethical for me to use that $100 for any reason until those two friends had been paid.

So, I'm saying good-bye. Thank you to all of my dear friends here whom I've come to think of as family. While I am grateful for all of the shared knowledge and fun over the years, above all else, I am grateful for those of you who so tenderly helped me through 2006 when 2 of my best friends and a cousin died within days of each other; when my stepdaughter, husband, and father were found to have cancer and my mom had major surgery; and then when my dad, my hero, died.

I told someone that I'd have to pay for the membership in order to keep Elmo and RWK straight. We all know that Rick will never be straight, and Elmo will not be staying, so I'm not as needed as I would have liked to think. LOL

Thank you for the memories. God bless and protect all of you.

Connie Baker
1-800-399-3001
1-864-269-3044
[email protected]

 

[CHR]

thanks for the response. Does this mean that 140 FC members logged into my site from here or does this mean 140 customers (non florists) found my site because of FC?

Joe, to search engines, links to your site are like 'votes' that your content is worth viewing. The more links, the higher quality the links are from sites trusted by those search engines, the better most sites do in search. (I say 'most' because some SEOs use nefarious tactics to game links so the search algorithms aren't perfect. Nothing is 'sure fire'.)

Regarding the 140 number, Yahoo 'sees' 140 different links from FC to Mioux Florist's site. The links certainly reinforce Yahoo's (and other SE's since they all 'see' those links) determination that your company is 1) a florist, 2) sells flowers and 3) is in Carlysle IL since the anchor text and related words from FC revolve around those terms.

The links come from 1) your signature from posts made on the public side of the forum, 2) your directory listing here, 3) your past blog posts and 4) a post about your heart-warming Easter Flower Tradition I made in the RF blog last spring.

Talking to each other has been an important part of FC, but talking to consumers and linking to local florists has been a real (and often unrecgonized) benefit.

It's one of the reasons why I take the time to write not only about my own business, but to share good news (and the links) about other florists. To wit: My personal blog post from a couple weeks ago with direct links with quality anchor text to the following FC members' shop sites:

David from Central Square
Connie from Powdersville Wren
Erlene from Maine Bride
Bloomin' Bee
Knife's Wife from Coleman's
Chez Bloom
Lori from Affairs to Remember
Avenue Gardens
Sher from Flowers from the Rainforest
Bloomers from Wilmington
Harkin's from New Orleans
Mark from Smith's
Pandalou from Ferrari's
Design Perfected from Denver
Lotakids from Flowers by Karen
Herndon Florist
Debbie's Bloomers

I still have a couple more to add, too as news of shops being named G Favorite Places continues to trickle in ....

SEs will spider those links, and they'll be seen as 'votes' for these local florists.

 

[Joe Mioux]

thanks for the answer to my questions.... I'm not sure I understand it all, but that is my fault not yours.

Oh yea.... those google favorite places. i got one of those in the mail.

joe

 

[Rock]

I've been here since the beginning of this board for which I thank Ryan.

Having read the discussion over the past few days it seems to me that there is only one real issue that is upsetting some members. That of whether Strider has the moral right to charge an “access fee” to the past 7 years' collection of freely given info, discussion and banter and resulting conclusions of hundreds of “members” without their permission.

My opinion is that Strider does NOT have that moral right (leaving out the legal issues) and should offer the option for all of those posters to either have their posts deleted (if that doesn’t cause undue confusion) OR allow free access to those posters for those posts/threads. Barring that, a clean slate. I believe that would have derailed most of the animosity shown here towards Ryan since he has freely given us a “protected” place to discuss our industry’s issues. To be forced to pay to see what you contributed is the “sticky wicket”, is it not?

The issue of “What value is membership in the new FC?” is entirely different.

The ‘issue ‘ of Ryan charging $ xxx.xx to have a discussion board for future endeavours is not an issue at all. If Ryan can provide valuable content for his members then he’ll have paying customers, if not, as any business, he won’t. Just because it was free doesn’t mean that we’re entitled to free access in the future.
As Cathy and several others have pointed out, there are others issues regarding ‘value’ of participating such as link value etc. True, but with the search engines constantly changing their algorithims who knows what will be of value when we wake up tomorrow morning.

I don’t know of any hidden agenda since I’m just another member here and haven’t been in contact with Ryan in quite some time. Since I’m not interested in any conspiracy theories I’ll take it for what it’s presented as, an evolving business that will change in time such as mine has over the past 29 years.

Rock on……………………….

 

[RWK]

Well, Saddened as I am by Connie's decision to leave, I just have to say that it is in my best interest to remain a member of FC. As it was said in another thread, 100 dollars to stay is chicken feed money compared to the dollars I could lose due to simple lack of knowledge and information. I am glad that there are other options for people........20.oo per month is in most cases less than a fairly nice meal out to dinner for two. Mcdonalds 99 cent coffee......getting a cup each morning on the way to work will top 30 dollars a month by the time you add in the sales tax.

Will I miss some of the industry leaders whom I have come to respect for their integrity, business acumen, and sometime quite pointed, opinionated viewpoints........Yes Indeed.

Will there be others who will come on board who are equally as vociferous with knowledge of successful business operations, fantastically talented designers on the cutting edge willing to share their knowledge and skills, As important as the internet and the use of such things as twitter, facebook, and the like continue to gain in popularity, will there be more people who ustilize those things to such a degree that they truloy help to put real dollars into the bank account of that flower shop. I am sure that there will be.


Now, this thread is well over 20 pages.........so who is bringing the 20 page pizza ?????

 

[Connie]

Rick, you will continue to be an asset here. You cannot and would not keep yourself from sharing. You have my #, even my cell # IIRC, so stay in touch! You know that I think you're a great guy, and I love you.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Rick, you will continue to be an asset here. You cannot and would not keep yourself from sharing. You have my #, even my cell # IIRC, so stay in touch! You know that I think you're a great guy, and I love you.

Connie...we LOVE you TOO!

 

[Connie]

Ah, Mikey, now you've made me cry again. You know that I love you too, and hope that you and Luc really will call me when you come through Atlanta next time.

BTW, thank you again for telling me what kind of callas to buy, and for all of your encouragement throughout the years. Furthermore, you're quite the hottie without your shirt!

 

[avenuegardensflorist]

Ah, Mikey, now you've made me cry again. You know that I love you too, and hope that you and Luc really will call me when you come through Atlanta next time.

BTW, thank you again for telling me what kind of callas to buy, and for all of your encouragement throughout the years. Furthermore, you're quite the hottie without your shirt!

...the best part is he taught us all we can replace our own sewer pipes.
just have to dig deep and take that shirt off!

 

[SpringCity]

I'll miss many of you! I hope you get in touch via facebook. I would also rather have all my stuff removed too, since I'm not even a florist anymore. Thanks for the laffs, guys.

 

[TOTO]

Just had a thought!

...the best part is he taught us all we can replace our own sewer pipes.
just have to dig deep and take that shirt off!

Since Mikey is so proficient at replacing sewer pipes, maybe we can get him hooked up with one of the Barry Soetoro Stim-u-not Shovel Ready projects in our House and Senate.

Lord knows we do have a serious problem with the overflow of CRAP they've been flushing down the throats of WE, The American People.

Mikey! Is your passport in order and how soon can you source 16" sewer pipes? We'll put Pelosi and Reid in charge of digging the Hole. That seems to be their forte.

And better plan to leave your shirt ON! Unless you want Nancy jumping all over your bones.
lol

 

[Erlene]

Setting the record straight.

Last fall after JB's inability to access the forum bore striking similarity to Aileen's inability to access the forum, I googled "ban ip address vbulletin" and found the Miserable Users Hack.

Before I leave flowerchat I wanted to set the record straight about how Aileen came to know about it. There were no faux friends, nor was Aileen being used as a pawn. Plain and simple, I am the person that told her about it.

I assumed people had figured that out when I posted that only admins or people with access to the control panel could install the hack but apparently that wasn't the case. As part of an owner's group on another board I'm quite familiar with the admin control panel of vbulletin.

I've been flowerchat member for a long time, now it is time to say goodbye. I wish the best for everyone. Time for me to log out.

 

[avenuegardensflorist]

Original post removed

. ...i guess I need to remove my comments also.
***just my comments to erlene's post.
Not all my comments.
Heck there is little value in them anyway!

 

[bloomz]

Last fall after JB's inability to access the forum bore striking similarity to Aileen's inability to access the forum, I googled "ban ip address vbulletin" and found the Miserable Users Hack.

Before I leave flowerchat I wanted to set the record straight about how Aileen came to know about it. There were no faux friends, nor was Aileen being used as a pawn. Plain and simple, I am the person that told her about it.

I assumed people had figured that out when I posted that only admins or people with access to the control panel could install the hack but apparently that wasn't the case. As part of an owner's group on another board I'm quite familiar with the admin control panel of vbulletin.

Thank you -

I was one who wanted Aileen to stop all the inane baloney postings, it was driving me nuts (short trip I know) and I felt ruining the board, but it was done in an underhanded way she didn't deserve, and watching her frustrations was not funny. She was indeed sweet innocent and naive and very needy of friends. (and someone mentioned faux friends and a very unfunny game???)

A private message could have accomplished the same thing without watching all her frustrations.

Erlene found the Miserable Users hack and showed it to me which explained what was done to me the day of my ban back then - then it was lied about just like Aileen was lied to. It was an IP address ban as Twila couldn't log in from the shop ip also - but she could from home. It was applied by Ryan.

The phony pretensions of being helpful ("glad you're back") were gag me with a spoon as I knew the truth about it - but I never mentioned it to her.

That was the hard part to watch and bite my tongue over - I see no need to do that any more.

Yes the hack was used on Aileen and on me, and then flat lies were told about it (I could find the post but why bother?)

anyone who likes is welcome to lie again - did you use the Miserable Users Hack (or similar) on Aileen???

Now another hack has been used on me so I can't give reputation points or thumbs up or down or almost anything I click logs me out, so it's been tough to even bother logging in here - one night I spent 15 minutes here and had to log in about 20 times to continue reading. I know this software pretty well now from the Admin Panel and I know the plethora of hacks available for it.

I won't be surprised if this post won't take, nor will anything surprise me any more as I know the lack of veracity. Why would I pay anything to belong to this place? Power posters (I was one a long time ago) should be paid to stay!

Take the money from the newbies who need the information and give it to the providers of the content - now there's a concept!:thumbsup

I also won't be surprised if this is deleted, so read it quick.

Thanks y'all for the great reputation I leave here with! Hope you all enjoyed my green dots back and I gave thousands of them.

Everyone have a wonderful 2010 and I'm off to the greener pastures we found.

Thanks for getting rid of me Ryan - you have no idea what a huge huge favor you've done for me, my business and most importantly my family. Now every night I give Julian a reading lesson - priceless!

Peace

bloomz - out

PS and don't forget!

opinions vary.....

 

[Victoria]

It wasn't gone from my screen Beth. I read it with no difficulty.

V