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Do you think the apparent lack of wire service affiliation has hurt Basic Flowers image or helped it? Why? Do you think SAF is correct in their recommendations?
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I agree with Cathy, I don't think it hurts it at all. And if SAF thinks customers should use only florists with FTD or TF then they haven't been to the FTD and TF shops I've been to. Customers aren't stupid, they buy what they like, no matter if they are with FTD and TF. I personally get 10-20 comments a month from customers either requesting us to NOT do it FTD style or do not put BB and carns in their bouquet. FTD has branded its name too well. lol

I think I can speak for this florist Cathy posted. Their niche feels the same way about FTD and cookie cutter BLAH. I'll go on to say that for my business and probably these two ladies florist, the FTD logo on our sites would turn our niche away. And when our niche goes to a lot of your guys websites, and sees the FTD logo or the same ol BLAH, they turn away from that site. I'm not talking about your site RC, just in general.

A lot of florists here think they can do a shot gun approach to all customers likings, but it is my opinion that when you try to hit all, you turn my niche off by having the same ol same ol. Some of you florists who are 2-6 year generations might not understand what I am saying, since your brand, in your town, rules supreme. And if that is the case... shotgun away! :)

I've found by watching and listening on this forum there is one side of the spectrum that is filled with florists who are business savvy and look at the product as a commodity. The other side of the spectrum is the artists who aren't as business minded, but have a passion for design. Like a bell curve, most of us fall somewhere in between these two spectrums. Being too far to one side or the other will eventually put a florist out of business. Some might think, well if I just understand the other side, it'll all be fine. But staying in business is to find what the customer wants and that should dictate where you should be in that spectrum.

No magic pill, it takes all kinds, etc.... The only constants I know in our field that we can all agree on is customer service and product quality.

Great question RC, but I think the answer is, it takes all kinds. In my area, FTD would hurt me, in your area, it may help.
 
I also agree with the above. The most repeated comment we hear from customers visiting our site is---it seems so good to see a site where we can see what different things you are doing rather than the same old site everybody else has. One customer on Friday said she kept clicking on to web sites and when she saw it was the old cookie cutter site she closed it out and went to another one. Found us and said it was such a relief to see a shop doing something origional and different.

We do not have a shopping cart on our site as we believe the giving of flower gifts is very personal and by talking with the customer we can make suggestions to help them in their selection. We also feel that this personal contact with them is very important in developing good customer relations.
I do realize that for a large volume shop this may be too time consuming, but for now, for us, it does seem to work very well.

We have been testing an idea for the last two weeks in that we will send a photo via e-mail to the customer, and has been quite seccessful. The return e-mails have been very apperciative of our taking the time to offer such a personal level to their order. We have a small area in the back corner with the backdrop, digital camera and strobe lights all set up and whan the order is done it goes on camera-----shoot it---and its loaded into the computer and off it goes!

Just another idea to sepatate us from all of the others out there filling the non profit WS orders.
 
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RC in Dayton and Cincinnati said:
Now to use this example to hammer a point on a different topic (probably temporary derailing this thread), SAF recommends the consumer look for professional affiliations with national wire services, such as FTD and Teleflora, when choosing a florist because these are the florists committed to being the best in their field.http://www.aboutflowers.com/ordering_b1.html

Do you think the apparent lack of wire service affiliation has hurt Basic Flowers image or helped it? Why? Do you think SAF is correct in their recommendations?
RC
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Nope I don't thinkit hurts one bit, in fact "affilliations" seem to be becoming a detrament in some circles...I think SAF is mis-guided in their thoughts on this...

(Side note: careful Randy... you're starting to sound like me...*recruitee*)
 
Dazeal said:
I've found by watching and listening on this forum there is one side of the spectrum that is filled with florists who are business savvy and look at the product as a commodity. The other side of the spectrum is the artists who aren't as business minded, but have a passion for design. Like a bell curve, most of us fall somewhere in between these two spectrums. Being too far to one side or the other will eventually put a florist out of business. Some might think, well if I just understand the other side, it'll all be fine. But staying in business is to find what the customer wants and that should dictate where you should be in that spectrum.
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Being the contrarian that I guess I am (thanks Cathy for that label, hope I spelled it right - it's got me written all over it)

I disagree with that statement, Dazael. Being too far to one side - artistic will put a florist out of business, but I have found that most of the big florists I have visited are commodity florists, and they seem the farthest from going out of business. Artistic shops drop like flies, only to be replaced by another enthusiastic would be artistic shop.

I am not crazy about this, as we got into this business with the "unique and different" label, but as time has gone on, it has become apparent to me that "unique and different" only appeals to "unique and different" consumers, and they are a tiny minority of flower purchasers.

FTD.com and 800 flowers sell more flowers every single day than most of us sell in a year - to middle of the road consumers who care less about art - they just want pretty flowers that last a long time. So I want those tiny few that want art and I want a chunk of them greenbacks being thrown at the big boys too, if for nothing else so I can support the "Art Department" of my business, cuz that's a division of the "Feel Good Department".

What you call "cookie cutters" are the best selling arrangements in the industry. Lots of carns and daisies and the like. Can anyone else reason why? Given this fact - why on earth would I not want to sell cookie cutters?

and a quick answer for Rich - please don't take this as arrogant, as I used to think the exact same way,
We do not have a shopping cart on our site as we believe the giving of flower gifts is very personal and by talking with the customer we can make suggestions to help them in their selection. We also feel that this personal contact with them is very important in developing good customer relations.
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Brian Faucher a long time ago encouraged me to get a shopping cart, when I was saying the same thing, and my orders increased phenomenally when I went to the work of adding one, and it is a fairly large amount of work moving from a catalog only site to an ecommerce site. He told me it will take you about a month, and it did, at least, and I am very glad he led me that way.

My own data mining has shown me that at least 70% of consumers (probably more at the big dotcoms), given the opportunity, prefer to order online vs the telephone, and I was just not hearing from them before at all - they were shopping elsewhere. You just can't take away the fact that a picture speaks a thousand words. And a picture is all that some consumers want. Many are just in love with the internet, and ordering "stuff" online.
So I think the reason you are hearing that from the people who call is because the rest aren't bothering to call, they are going to one of the big dotcoms, or another shop that does have a shopping cart. You will still have that personal touch with the ones who do call you. Nothing to lose, lots to gain. Even if you are doing your own designs, you will triple your orders if you add an easy to use, well designed ecommerce module. RC's site is a wonderful example of his own work featured with ecommerce, and I wouldn't call his work cookie cutters.

Actually, some are actually not too hard to add if you go with a third party one such as Just Add Commerce or vcart - they have plugins that make it easy to insert code into your pages for online ordering.

again, not to be arrogant, but encouraging as opposed to be disparaging - it is some trouble to add but well worth it!

Oh, and by the way - my feelings are that logos do help credentialize me, (at least in my own head)

so now I did it again, posted here when I said I wouldn't, and I bet anyone $100 I will wish I could edit this post in about 5 minutes. That's something every forum I play on has going on, and I don't understand why this one can't or won't do that.
 
Bloomz
Thank you for your comments, and I do take them as constructive.
When I referred to cookie cutter I was in no way referring to RC'S site- it is for the other sites that are not independent sites that the customers I was referring to sited as they all looked alike and did not show what the shops could do on their own.
 
Being too far to one side - artistic will put a florist out of business, but I have found that most of the big florists I have visited are commodity florists, and they seem the farthest from going out of business.
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Yeah JB, you are right, I should of said.. one side of the spectrum is art and the other side commodity. Businesses minded can be either side.

FTD.com and 800 flowers sell more flowers every single day than most of us sell in a year - to middle of the road consumers who care less about art - they just want pretty flowers that last a long time. So I want those tiny few that want art and I want a chunk of them greenbacks being thrown at the big boys too, if for nothing else so I can support the "Art Department" of my business, cuz that's a division of the "Feel Good Department".
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Let me explain what I mean by art vs cookie cutter imo.

Art:
ff1lrg.jpg


Same old stuff:
TF15-1135644752429.jpg


The art one is pretty and last a long time, so I don't get your point JB. Maybe your locals would rather buy the more "cookie cutter look". Please don't take that as a slam, it was not meant to be one at all. I respect your hard work, I was just trying to make a point that pretty can last a long time.. and if you buy from the grower, your COG are low. When customers see the two arrangement styles above at roughly the same price, which do you think they'll choose? The reason, maybe, some customers around the US aren't asking for that look, is because they've never seen it or see flowers as more of a commodity. BUT I could almost bet the farm that if a shop were to set up next to you, offer the same great service, same price, but a different look than what they see at the grocery stores, they would buy from the more unique store. But again, it takes all kinds. I know in the small logging town where I grew up, people would almost die if you offered them long stem red tulips at Vday.

What you call "cookie cutters" are the best selling arrangements in the industry. Lots of carns and daisies and the like. Can anyone else reason why? Given this fact - why on earth would I not want to sell cookie cutters?
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That is easy, because people expect it and they have NO idea what blupleurum is. Most florists don't either, which is sad. We are taking accounts from businesses and people every day, and at least twice a week we hear how they are leaving the other florist because of their style. Again, the example above of someone setting up a shop next to you who does unique stuff, with the same service, business savvy and price, would hurt your business. I know, because I am killing florists in my town who are 20, 30 and 80+ years old. You stick with that cookie cutter look JB, and it is my opinion, you are setting your business up for hard times, because the big boys cater to that same niche. You might think, well, I'll ride this wave as long as I can, but if that is the case, you are branding your florist RIGHT now as a cookie cutter florist. Be careful.

it has become apparent to me that "unique and different" only appeals to "unique and different" consumers, and they are a tiny minority of flower purchasers.
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I disagree JB. Maybe that is true where you live, but where I live, even the middle class appreciate the more unique (first arrangement) over the cookie cutter one when they know there is a choice. It is their hard earned money.. do they want to send something special or the same thing everyone else is sending? Maybe the reason your customers wouldn’t like the first arrangement above, is because their knowledge of flowers is limited to the basics. We are now in the age of information, it’s only a matter of time before all customers start asking for China Berries, etc... But you know what? I doubt most people will come in and ask for China Berries, but they will recognize the look or style. Open any magazine, look at the design. In general, does it look like the first arrangement above or the second? The times and style are changing. Is your florist brand hitting, or setting yourself up for those customers of the future, present or past? I think florist should being in the present, preparing for the future, when it comes to style. Most are in the present, and designing in the past.

As for a shopping cart Rich, I'll side with JB. We don't have a shopping cart, but within a year we will. When we started our online site, we had a shopping cart and it was spendy, it's not so much anymore. Each year that goes by more people are buying direct from online sites. I still think people want to call in, but as each day goes by, people are finding online shopping carts easier to use and just as safe. BTW, epicflowers orders are 95% through our shopping cart.

Hey Rich, it might be easier to use www.tzo.com for your email pictures program. If you want to know more about how it works, call my cell - 541-601-5837 I'll also tell you more about the new wireless digital camera, so all you'll have to do is take the pic in the shop, have the tzo program.. and that is it. No DLing to your Hard drive, no uploading to a server, it's all done for you. As soon as these cameras can go wireless anywhere, your delivery guy can do it when they receive the flowers... the rest is done for you. :)
 
I was thinking the same as Clay...my guess is at least a $45.00 difference...

In my biz... we offer BOTH styles, but do more of the "Art" side on a daily basis...the "cookie's" are only on request these days...and tend to be heavier at holidays when volume production design is required...
 
Guys, that is why I said "style" or "design" when I compared the two. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression if I said those are the same price.

If it helps... take that cookie cutter arrangement, add a bigger basket and more Blah flowers. Now compare the two. Now look at what your grocery store does and the big boys online. I truly believe the future of brick and mortar flowers doesn't involve boring designs or flower type. You might counter me by saying... but Carns and BB have been in for 100 years! I will counter that with we are in an age of information, where information flows 100X faster than 50 years ago. Yeah it takes all kinds I know, and maybe in your town customers would cringe at the thought of long stem tulips at Vday or your shop is HUGE or 3rd generation, where you can't understand what I am talking about. New smaller shops or even medium sized shops should listen to me, when I say, if you are doing that cookie cutter look, you will be out of business. (I know there are lots of variables.. bad business person, bad designers, etc.. - I am talking in general) I've seen 10 shops in southern Oregon open and leave within a few years, because their style was the same old crap the BIG florists are doing, BUT the big florists around here survive on their brand name and taking most the WS orders. To be fair, I don;t know all the answers on starting a small shop in your area, the above is what I have seen in Southern Oregon. And I would bet a $100 the next shop that opens up here, thinks they need a WS, does the same old cookie cutter designs with carns and mums, will bite the dust too. Maybe in your area it would flourish.

Think about this logic:

Styles hits the big cities first. (any style, clothes, food, flowers etc..)

Carns went out of style in the big city first.

Carns have been out of style in the big cities for X amount of years.

Now the circle is returning and carns, but in unique colors, are back in style.

Maybe that isn't true, but it's an observation I have seen. The USA is SO HUGE, we have so many markets in the flower world, when anyone like me says X, it won't be the same 30 miles away. Like I said above, the only two constants where we can all say X and agree is customer service and product freshness.

And clay, that top pic, in my shop, would be $65-70 and that is with a 300% markup (3x). When you guys are talking about newspaper ads and marketing that way, I am totally against that method, because the greatest advertisement we have is our product. When people at an office or hospital or wherever see our design, compared to the Carn and BB design the other florists are doing, they stop and think about the generic design they brought and might say, I spent my hard earned money on the flowers that blends in and looks the same as the other flowers here? I think if us florists would concentrate on that type of advertising (your actual product) you'd get more business/money than the money wasted on Black and white ads in a newspaper. Since we have taken up this attitude 2 years ago, our advertising in total, that we spent last year was about $2000 ($1200 of that was our local phone book) and we are on target to get close to 200k this year, up 33.33% from last year. (the is projected by the end of Dec, not a fiscal year) With 2 part time employees working 15 hours a week each and products direct from the farm, our overhead and COG are low. Our retail shop will be 4 years old this Feb. The formula above is a generic pathway I would recommend to any new florists starting up, with so many odds against them. Who else can say they spend 1% on advertising and do 33% more the next year? Hmmm maybe I'm doing something right? I'm know I am doing a lot of stuff wrong right now, but I am still learning. Like I need a POS really bad, and a shopping cart on my website.

Starting a new florist these days and surviving is tough. If new florists do the same old stuff as the bigger florists in that area, they will die, in general. It’s just my opinion that florist should think more of their designs going out as advertisement, not the black and white ads. Word of mouth is free.
 
Dazeal said:
If new florists do the same old stuff as the bigger florists in that area, they will die, in general. It’s just my opinion that florist should think more of their designs going out as advertisement, not the black and white ads. Word of mouth is free.
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I concur....and also any "old" florists that wants to grow/re-invent themselves too...

but in many market you also need the print/electronic/radio/billboard/van advertising as well... "Top of mind awareness"....
 
but in many market you also need the print/electronic/radio/billboard/van advertising as well... "Top of mind awareness"....Reply With Quote
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Yeah you are right Boss. All my ramblings are just the facts in my area. An hour south, north, west and east the rules change.

:)
 
You don't get it ($$$), if you don't ask for it or don't think you're worth it. By the looks of their storefront, their customer's think they're worth it!

Great point about their location Cathy! Many shops forget to consider that when they are wiring out an order. Especially to those of us in California. I'd like to scream everytime I hear another shop call us & gripe about how much we charge for flowers, after all, "you live in California, don't you". Arrrrgh!
Yep, and there's a price we pay to do so. I'm just sayin'.....
 
CHR said:
Well fellas, if you think Brandon's arrangement was pricey....
http://www.flowersoftheworld.com/ Just remember they have to pay Manhattan rent.

Check out their rating and review by the Zagat Survey. (I believe Zagat is only rating florists in NY right now.)
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After I saw his price on his response post, I thought is was a good vaule for what was in the arrangment. My guess for the "other" arrangement was $30-35 and add to it Mark's guess of around $45 price difference, you get a composite of our guesses (??) of $75-80 vs Brandon's $65-70.

I understand Brandon's thoughts perfectly....25% of our business is from upgraded, decorated plants vs the standard florist pothos in the $.60 cost Mexican hat basket that I see everyday in both large shops and small shops. It has been easier for us to upgrade a customer from $25 plant to a $40 home decor plant than take a customer with a $35 flower budget and bump them to $55 (same percentage as plant sale) or to even a $65-70 range....but we are working on it. Gaylon Pyle's meeting with us several years ago on sales and offering 3 price points (approx 20% difference in each price point) has help us on upgrading our sales presentation (now that I think about it, I need him back for our newer employees).

Anymore, nice arrangement Brandon.....and nice picture of it also.
 
I am so glad to see/hear big florists who are moving forward like yours Clay. That image was taken from http://www.frenchtulip.com. I can't take credit, but our style is almost the exact same.

Thanks for that floral link Cathy, neat.
 
I love this thread! Everyday there is something new to inspire. Thanks and keep sharing!

V
 
Cool site Cathy! And thanks Mark for that site, their style is very similair to our style. If anyone has time, it would be nice if this thread was started over with just the links, minus the posts that aren't inspirational sites. To get started, I have these links on my florist's forum for my employees to be inspired at and the standards for the people who are applying for a job with us (alphabetical Order - The BK list - ):

Artisan Florst - http://www.aristonflorist.com/
Artistry in Bloom - https://www.flowerartisan.com/
Belle Fluer - http://www.bellefleurny.com/
Biz Bash (Top Event Designers) http://www.bizbash.com/
Bloom Flowers - http://www.bloomflowers.com/
Carolyn Gregg Flroal Design - http://www.carolyngreggflowers.com
Daily Blossom - http://www.dailyblossom.com/
Douglas Koch - http://www.douglaskoch.com/
Floraliesinc - http://www.floraliesinc.com/
Flowers in the Foyer - http://www.flowersinthefoyer.co.za/
Fluers France - http://www.fleursfrance.com/
Glorimundi - http://www.glorimundi.com/
Jane Packer - http://www.jane-packer.co.uk/
Human Flower Porject(BLOG) - http://www.humanflowerproject.com/
Ingelas Design - http://www.ingelasdesign.com/
Jacob Maarse Florists - http://www.jacobmaarse.com/
Kim England - http://www.kimenglandflowers.com/home.html
Lani Elizabeth - http://www.lanielizabeth.com/
LMD Floral - http://www.lmdfloral.com/
Magnolia - http://www.magnolia-nyc.com/
Mandy Scott - http://www.mandyscottflowers.com/
Mayesh - http://www.mayesh.com/ab/
Mark's Garden - http://www.marksgarden.net/
Michael George Design - http://www.michaelgeorgeflowers.com/
Michelle Rago LTD - http://www.michelleragoltd.com/
Podesta Baldocchi - http://www.podestabaldocchi.com/
Pollen - http://www.pollenatlanta.com/
Preston Baily - http://www.prestonbailey.com/
Prudence Designs - http://www.prudencedesigns.net/home.html
Rene Van Rems- http://www.renevanrems.com/
Simply Blooms - http://www.simplyblooms.com/
Spruce - http://www.spruceup.com/
Studio Flora - http://www.studioflora.com.br/
Studio Sweetpea - www.studiosweetpea.com
Tapestry Flowers - http://www.tapestryflowers.com/
Tick Toc Floral Creations- http://www.tictock.com/


PS. I just added the SweetPea one, thanks MARK!!! :) I am a nerd, I collect flower sites that inspire :)
 
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