Floral Associations In The OG Bag?

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Rene' -

Your state association has a wealth of different programs on a wide range of topics. Our state has just 1 two-day convention. Saturday is a student design competition, 2 hr. hands-on "beginnerish classes" and a dinner with design program. Sunday is a professional design competition, luncheon, design show and small trade fair.

I understand the CA assoication is starting to put on hands-on design classes in select locations, too.

Business programs will always have a lower attendance, but the business owners write the checks for association dues.
 
Wow - there's alot on information flying around this particular post. I can only speak for my shop - as well as our state floral association (CFA). CFA was successful in eliminating fictitious listing in the phone book. The September issue of our magazine was centered around order gathers. It provided tips to become WS free as well as a hints to make working with a WS more profitable. Our next publication will be networking - ways to reach new customers, serve them better and strengthening your shop's independence.

At our yearly convention, our business clinics have covered a vast array of topics and have included ways to handle OG orders in a more profitable manner. At this same convention, FTD sponsors a designer who teachs a hands on class and presents a stage show. Same with Teleflora. As an association, we have found a number of other companies who will sponsor a business clinic, a hands on class, a cocktail party - we have a very educational, very informative, very successful show.

I am by no means pro wire service. I'm not - in no shape or form. However, I pose this question - when a person comes into my shop to send flowers to Florida, Colorado or even just the other end of the state - aren't I an order gatherer by accepting that order? Before I get flamed and I imagine I will, it is the same thing. Just on a smaller scale. But if I had the time, energy and financial backing - it wouldn't have to be.

If I chose not to market my shop to the recipient of that incoming wire service order - is that the WS/ OG fault or mine? They have the item I created in their home for days/ weeks / months - personally, I think that is a better testimonial than a spam like email telling them to buy more flowers. But I digress -

If you are unhappy with what your floral association is doing, where they are headed - what are you doing to change it?
Leah
 
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Leah -

Connecticut has a fantastic association - one of the strongest in the US - and the CFA convention probably has the best attendance of any florist gathering in the country. (I've been a featured designer and speaker there twice.)

It's diversity of topics is one of its real strengths.

I don't think anyone is saying WSs can't be a useful tool or that they have to be banished from conventions. What's often missing (obviously not in Connecticut) is a balance of addressing the issues that directly affect florists' bottom lines - and this includes discussion of WSs.

Not long ago, an association in a different state asked its VP to resign because he wrote an op-ed piece about the perils of filling OG orders. He was told he was 'ungrateful' for all the things WSs did for the association. (IMO the WSs have benefited greatly through promotion by that active group.)

When expression of the obvious is stifled to maintain WS dollars, it can imperil the long-term future of any florist-funded trade association.
 
CHR said:
Not long ago, an association in a different state asked its VP to resign because he wrote an op-ed piece about the perils of filling OG orders. He was told he was 'ungrateful' for all the things WSs did for the association. (IMO the WSs have benefited greatly through promotion by that active group.)
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Sad but true...

In this months Super Floral Retailing magazine there is an interview with Mr. Goldston of United Online regarding the re-creation of the local FTD Districts... read it here

I wonder if Mr. Goldston is aware of the reasons the districts were disbanded in the first place. Ponderous thoughts are brought to mind... divide and devour... I did email the editor...

Thing is, the wire services and order gatherers will continue to profit because of their financial agreements that leave the crumbs for the filling florist. But judging by how many florists have closed in just the last few month, it appears that their delivery areas are and will continue to shrink.

BWTHDIK
 
leah said:
Wow - there's alot on information flying around this particular post. I can only speak for my shop - as well as our state floral association (CFA). CFA was successful in eliminating fictitious listing in the phone book. The September issue of our magazine was centered around order gathers. It provided tips to become WS free as well as a hints to make working with a WS more profitable. Our next publication will be networking - ways to reach new customers, serve them better and strengthening your shop's independence.
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GREAT! This is the sort of action that other Florist Associations should be doing. :yourock:

At our yearly convention, our business clinics have covered a vast array of topics and have included ways to handle OG orders in a more profitable manner. At this same convention, FTD sponsors a designer who teachs a hands on class and presents a stage show. Same with Teleflora. As an association, we have found a number of other companies who will sponsor a business clinic, a hands on class, a cocktail party - we have a very educational, very informative, very successful show.
Click to expand...

In light of the first paragraph, this seems like an intelligent use of ALL resources for the good of the membership. :yourock:

I am by no means pro wire service. I'm not - in no shape or form. However, I pose this question - when a person comes into my shop to send flowers to Florida, Colorado or even just the other end of the state - aren't I an order gatherer by accepting that order? Before I get flamed and I imagine I will, it is the same thing. Just on a smaller scale. But if I had the time, energy and financial backing - it wouldn't have to be.
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No. It is not the same thing. Your shop is sitting there. Someone comes in with the knowledge that you are not in Florida, Colorado, etc. But they choose you for reasons that have to do with perceived value, reliability, great service, or whatever.

An OG deliberately positions itself in its advertising to LOOK LIKE they are ACTUALLY LOCATED IN Florida, Colorado, etc. OR they make it seem like they have some special relationship with florists in those locations. AND in many instances, an OG is NOT CHARGING SALES TAX, thus "saving" the customer money. These actions are deceptive and CHEAT the customer.

If I chose not to market my shop to the recipient of that incoming wire service order - is that the WS/ OG fault or mine? They have the item I created in their home for days/ weeks / months - personally, I think that is a better testimonial than a spam like email telling them to buy more flowers. But I digress -
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If you "chose not to market," the choice was likely based on economic terms. OGs can buy "Yellow" directory ads for much less money than you can. Ditto for "pay per click" ads. Maintaining a SUPERB website like those of the OGs is not trivial. Do you have enough in your budget for a full time webmaster and programmers? The OGs do, because they spread that cost over hundreds of cities. You have to pay for those fixed costs out of a one city revenue stream.

If you are unhappy with what your floral association is doing, where they are headed - what are you doing to change it?
Leah
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RIGHT ON. :yourock:

(My first ever triple rock reply)

Bill
 
CHR said:
Leah -
Not long ago, an association in a different state asked its VP to resign because he wrote an op-ed piece about the perils of filling OG orders. He was told he was 'ungrateful' for all the things WSs did for the association. (IMO the WSs have benefited greatly through promotion by that active group.)

When expression of the obvious is stifled to maintain WS dollars, it can imperil the long-term future of any florist-funded trade association.
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I think that is a pretty clear example of "In The Bag":yourock:

Bill
 
strippinrose said:
one dumb question? if the order gathers continue to gleen all the orders, how can we support them by sending out if we get none in.
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The only dumb question is the one that isn't asked!

I THINK I understand what you are asking. Let's assume a worse-case scenario. The OGs succeed in taking all the orders. That leaves the REAL florists with no orders to wire out. And THAT means that the wire services will PENALIZE US financially because we are not sending out enough orders because the OGs have all the orders, but the wire services ARE the OGs so they are penalizing use for not doing what they are preventing us from doing.

My stomach hurts!

Bill
 
The thing is, the OG's can't survive without florists to fill the orders. If there was such a thing as a wire service that ONLY accepted real brick and mortar florists, this would be a non-issue and the dOG's would die.
 
kt4ye said:
An OG deliberately positions itself in its advertising to LOOK LIKE they are ACTUALLY LOCATED IN Florida, Colorado, etc. OR they make it seem like they have some special relationship with florists in those locations. AND in many instances, an OG is NOT CHARGING SALES TAX, thus "saving" the customer money. These actions are deceptive and CHEAT the customer.

Bill
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Bill - I like much of what you have said and done but that statement is not exactly true.

Your brush is a bit too broad.

You are describing a Deceptive Order Gatherer. Those are DOGS, not OGs

There are many order gatherers, myself included, who feel no need to decieve anyone.

I don't charge sales tax because my state doesn't have it, and I DO have a special relationship with many of the florists who fill my orders. They want the orders, and attempt very hard to do a good job so they will continue to receive them.

And, you'll find my address located on every single page of my web site, including emails and confirmations that come from my system - all clearly specify where I am located.

I don't get why some conceal their locations, and as I have said several times before - I hope this costs them in consumer confidence (and order count).

But as to websites - well, you have to compete with 800TFTD.cons of the world, and having a functional attractive compelling website is not a "can do" but a "must do". And if you don't have the time or resources to do that, well, your business will suffer for it. That's not the fault of those that do. You can't take away from those that DO devote the time and resources to do it and paint them with a "they are bad" brush stroke. (well I guess you can, but it isn't valid)

People order from OG websites for the most compelling reason - convenience.

It's the way it is.

Other than that - carry on amigo!

Here's one for you:yourock:
 
Without the 800TFTD guys in the picture.......Most if not all the florist associations would find themselves struggling to fill slots in programs, Handling the logistics of getting a presenter in, handling accomodations, and all manner of stuff. Procurement or product provided would be harder to get without the provisions by the wire services. In addition there is the 'draw power' of a big-name designer/presenter.....usual;ly they are covered by one or more of the Big Three.

Not saying I am wire service pro or con......but just pointing out how difficult florist associations would find things without the contributions of the Big Three.
 
Ricky, I kind of have to disagree on that one a bit.
Maine State has put on two design programs (2 if not 3 day programs) each year for a great many years. (I have either been the registration, treasurer, or co-chair for most of them)
The only monies we usually have had from any of them are trade fair booths - average $150 -250 and a couple of meals. They also bring stuff to put in our "show bags" like the ink pens, delivery mats, or such - advertising. We have put on very successful shows without their help. It has only been this year that we really put the "touch" to them and only because of the costs of our presenter which we tried to offset the costs with them sponsoring coffee breaks or cocktail hours.
I can safely say that in the past 10 or so years, with the exception of one year (poor chairman's decisions), that every show has made money. It may not be thousands but produced a profit leaving us to plan more events, workshops, seminars - all without the WS logo being added to them.
Depending on the associations membership, a great many shows, seminars, workshops can be produced by either AIFD, State Certified Members, or long standing members who are very knowledgable in their profession and can produce a show that can inspire the very new to the very seasoned audience member.
The key to the profitable show is "Theme".....workshops "Viable business practice" and great budgeting.
 
SpringCity said:
The thing is, the OG's can't survive without florists to fill the orders. If there was such a thing as a wire service that ONLY accepted real brick and mortar florists, this would be a non-issue and the dOG's would die.
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I've been hearing that for well over 10 years now.

Maybe you didn't know bloomz was one of THE very first anti-OG crusaders. Possibly the first, most certainly the most vocal.

I've watched them grow and grow. If you could stop consumers from buyin from them, but you can't.

Couldn't beat them - so.....


The rest is history.
 
kt4ye said:
Let's assume a worse-case scenario. The OGs succeed in taking all the orders. That leaves the REAL florists with no orders to wire out. And THAT means that the wire services will PENALIZE US financially because we are not sending out enough orders because the OGs have all the orders, but the wire services ARE the OGs so they are penalizing use for not doing what they are preventing us from doing.
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I see this a little differently. As the orders continue to decline at the retail florist level, and grow via order gatherers and wire services, there will be less and less need for florists to be members of wire services because they do not have outgoing orders to send. (Keeping in mind, that tis easier to receive than send, and that when they have orders they will have to find a filler)

As this shift in order volume continues to change the coverage issue will continue to grow, and OG's and florists alike will have to go to using their credit cards more and more (I'm seeing this already). When this change happens, the florists whether they know it or not, will begin to regain the upper hand simply by being willing or not willing to fill these orders. Demand for fillers will increase, and those same fillers will be able to demand real dollars and real delivery charges without any type of discounts what so ever.

Order Gatherers (there is a new breed coming soon, you each owe me $5 when I say I told ya so) will have to then become more "pro-florist" and be willing to work with the florists because the florists will once again control the flow. This will not be the same everywhere. Cities like Philly with 100+ florists will always have a willing stooge wanting the discounted work, but in smaller cities the control will shift back.

The "new breed" of OG will, while continuing to gather orders become more of a partner with the florist, giving the florist something for their loyality and willingness to accept these orders. The "new breed" will put pressure on the deceptive order gathers (Dog's) because they know that if they want florists to fill their orders, they have to give the florist and the consumer something currently missing in the market, and that's *all the information* and *all the monies promised*. It's coming folks....
 
I'll give ya 10 bucks now, but, a little off topic.
Historically, florists have looked to the wire services, as their social and business support "backbone"....it stands to reason, that many florists have "forgotten" how to continue on, without the services of a wire service.
Many have left the wire services, and "altered" their business model, and have done so successfully, HOWEVER, when a wire service becomes completely unnecessary, so do the reasons behind WHY florists NEED to meet up with each other, and we return to square one.
OG's supply the orders, florists FILL the orders, the WS is the middle man, and on the surface it seems normal.
Problem is the "dOG" mentality, that literally strips the legitimate value from the order, THEN the middleman gets a cut, THEN the florists are
asked to fill....yes we are "asked".....
At that point, WE decide if the order is filled or not, and in NOT filling it, WE, the REAL FLORISTS, feel we've let someone down...we seem to be the only ones that really give a dang!!
When times are tough, and florists cannot retaliate, the WS is the first to go, and when enough florists leave, the system is dead.
The OG's will be dead, the dOGs will be dead, the WS's will be dead, and our industry, will be dead.
 
I don't know where the florist lost control of the industry but I feel that if something is not done soon (if it's not too late already). The industry as we know it will end. You can see it slipping away it was slowly at first now it is racing away. Our current situation is not just the fault of the economy, it started before the recession did, the recession is just a mask. Can we stand up to big brother? Most of these industries are existing under the guise of helping us. If that were the case wouldn't more of us be multimillion dollar companies with CEO's from hell.
P Bird
 
I am not seeing much information advising the public on how much of thier monies spent on flowers actually go toward flowers. How can we make this happen? Would this be the job of an group similar to the Society of American FLORIST.

I am new to the flower politics, I feel like big brother is watching and I should watch what I say. But I just recieved my WS statement, this one has put me over the top.

P Bird
 
do we have to wait for things to happen

:argue::SUI:I am not seeing much information advising the public on how much of thier monies spent on flowers actually go toward flowers. How can we make this happen? Would this be the job of an group similar to the Society of American FLORIST.

I am new to the flower politics, I feel like big brother is watching and I should watch what I say. But I just recieved my WS statement, this one has put me over the top.

P Bird:fdevil:
 
It is often said, Paradise Bird, that there there are three kinds of people:
  • The folks that make things happen
  • The folks that watch things happen
  • The folks that ask, "What happened?"
The nice thing is that everyone in our country, by their actions, gets to pick which group they belong in.

Some years ago (snicker) I was such a poor salesman that I could not have sold a burlesque show to a lumber camp.

An old PRO salesman lent me a book called, "Nothing Happens Until Somebody Sells Something." (It is still a great book, because it helps us understand how our economy REALLY works! But I digress.)

In the current Floral environment, the words of wisdom SHOULD be, "Nothing Happens Until Somebody DOES Something."

If we all sit on our fists, leaning back on our thumbs and wait for somebody else to do something, then we are deciding with our actions which group we belong to.

What can you do?

How 'bout it gals and guys? How about populating this thread with ideas about things that we CAN do rather than watching what's happening, or worse still WONDERING what is happening?

Maybe we could even actually do some of them!

All the best!

Bill
 
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