Florists For Change

[sandytf]

The problem is, we florists always try to make the system fit what WE want, instead of what the CUSTOMER wants which is one of the reasons why the big online companies kick our butt. For better or worse, I don't think you'll be able to convince those customers who like the ease of ordering online to make the phone call. Many of them order during hours when the shop isn't even open. We can't go backwards.

 

[jamie]

The problem is, we florists always try to make the system fit what WE want, instead of what the CUSTOMER wants which is one of the reasons why the big online companies kick our butt. For better or worse, I don't think you'll be able to convince those customers who like the ease of ordering online to make the phone call. Many of them order during hours when the shop isn't even open. We can't go backwards.

The customer WANTS a good value in flowers to be a vehicle for whatever message they want to convey. The shops who continue to fill for the OGs will grab the sucker customers; there is nothing we can do about that. You cannot compete on price because Just Flowers has no CoGS, so they can always beat your price.

If a customer is ordering online then they will either find an OG and be disappointed or find a real florist in the delivery area and (hopefully) be satisfied. Not much else can be done about that.

What is going to happen is some florists will stay with the WS and they will be bled until they have to close their doors. Fewer filling florist paying fees means less money to pay rebates to OGs which means higher "service charges" What happens when you order a $29.99 "Make A Wish" and you get a $24.95 service charge? You paid $55.94 for a $20 mixed cut vase ($20.00+$9.99 delivery). Customer(rightly) complains and the filling shop does not get paid. Boohoo, filling shop has to close it's doors because it can't even get the 73% of every dollar it is working for. Any "real" customers they had start looking for another shop and your sales go up.

BTW the big online companies kick our butt because we don't market against them. Add that to the fact that they are not honest merchants, and you will see that you should not even bother fighting on their home courts

 

[Lizi]

We, as in florist are their enabler, just like with drugs or alcohol to the addict. The one with small shops who receive the orders know they are not making any money when they fill them, yet they can't seem to get out of the vicious cycle. Why would the WS's care about our needs and wants, they haven't cared for years. Be done with them, start an independent "Florist across America" independently owned florist network. Keep the membership as low as possible, a tiered membership. Why doesn't SAF have more members, even their lowest membership based on shop size is $375.00, kinda tough in this economy. It has to be affordable for all shops.

 

[Eric S]

So how long is the meeting taking place for? Looks like its changed quite a bit....

I really only planned to be there from 10AM to 1PM.

 

[steve]

all day the 17th and 8t11 the 18th

 

[Doug Munro]

We need to be the dog that is wagging the tail vs being the tail anything less and we will have failed. For this to work it has to be all enclusive Meaning rather you are a big florist or a small florist in the mtns of VT or remote part of TX its has to work for the majority or you are not going to have enough shops on board.

There lies the issue, even when seeking change one side or the other wants it all. The only way business ever works is if all parties involved benefit. As it currently stand one of the parties is benefiting to a much larger degree than the other, swinging the pendulum all the way to the other side is not a long term solution. It needs to settle in the middle. otherwise this problem will just continue.

 

[Doug Munro]

The problem is, we florists always try to make the system fit what WE want, instead of what the CUSTOMER wants which is one of the reasons why the big online companies kick our butt. For better or worse, I don't think you'll be able to convince those customers who like the ease of ordering online to make the phone call. Many of them order during hours when the shop isn't even open. We can't go backwards.

I almost passed by this comment as it seemed far too sensible.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great idea that a group of you are willing to travel and meet to discuss issues the industry is facing. However I suspect that in general based solely on the comments on this board that it will simply turn in to a face-to-face bi*ch session about the wire services. Quite frankly I would be on a plane to Vegas without hesitation if I was convinced the meeting would actually be about improving business for the retail florist.

I am curious why so many "wire service free" florists are so gung ho about forcing change on the wire services, after all you have already made your decision and moved on. Shouldn't you be focusing on building you own business, rather than tearing down someone else's?

Again, I am all for positive change, just don't want to see it brought about by a pitchfork carrying mob.

 

[bernie]

Cunsumers are the life blood of any business and expecially ours... A few years from now the discussion will not centre on problems with the wire service, it will center on the ability of the floral industry to compete with other viable emotional services for the consumers dollar. It is imperative that this discussion not be a witch hunt, but rather a new vision into the future.
We need to be able to commuincate with the consumer on a collective basis to promote our industry.
Florists sending out orders to other florists either with or without a wire service, will soon be a thing of the past.
Direct sending by the consumer through a network of expert florists should not only be done, it should be wanted by all in this industry.
How this is acheived is the challange.

 

[Doug Munro]

Cunsumers are the life blood of any business and expecially ours... A few years from now the discussion will not centre on problems with the wire service, it will center on the ability of the floral industry to compete with other viable emotional services for the consumers dollar. It is imperative that this discussion not be a witch hunt, but rather a new vision into the future.
We need to be able to commuincate with the consumer on a collective basis to promote our industry.
Florists sending out orders to other florists either with or without a wire service, will soon be a thing of the past.
Direct sending by the consumer through a network of expert florists should not only be done, it should be wanted by all in this industry.
How this is acheived is the challange.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, we must place the consumer first and foremost.
One of the issues is that the typical retail flower shop is working on a model that is 50 years old, low volume, high margins.
Unfortunately this model worked when there was little if any competition, but fails miserably in today's world. Over 60% of consumers now purchase flowers from grocery stores or big boxes (Costco's and the like). In the long term this is the area we should be concerned about. Compared to this what the WS's and Og's take off the table are scraps.

 

[anytimeflowers]

I am curious why so many "wire service free" florists are so gung ho about forcing change on the wire services, after all you have already made your decision and moved on. Shouldn't you be focusing on building you own business, rather than tearing down someone else's?

I'm really not gung ho about forcing change on the wire services. I AM gung ho about helping florists enter the 21st century.

Again, I am all for positive change, just don't want to see it brought about by a pitchfork carrying mob.

Pitchfork carrying mob? lol


Okay, there are some comments that could be assessed in this way, that is why I wholeheartedly agree with keeping to an agenda so that the REAL issues can be discussed with some hope on concurrence. If it were just going to be another biatch session, then everybody could save the airfare and just complain on facebook.

The website comments unfortunately are direct quotes taken from the facebook page, but they certainly do not enumerate what the agenda is all about.

 

[sandytf]

Good point, Doug. I see LOTS of florists out there who want to price their product like they're Tiffany and Co. but in reality, they're a Kay Jewelers.

 

[bernie]

In the restaurant business there are three models. The grocey store for raw materials (cook at home), the fast food places (for a quick take out) and thirdly the fine dining experience. Florists should first and foremost place themselves in the third option, the dining (floral) experience. We are afterall the fine chefs of the Floral Industry and therefore should be selling that expertise. After all, flowers are just a byproduct of what we really do which is relay messages of emotion to and for our customers. When something special needs to be done for a momentus occassion in our customer lives, we whould be ready and available to fulfil those wishes with the finest of product and design. The other two options are necessary to help the floral industry as a whole to sell more per captia to the consumer, therby creating greater demand for florists fine and creative design services.
It is not the wire services or mass marketers that are our emenies, it is our own inability to create an awareness of our creative ability.
Aren's you inticed to go to a fine dining restaurant with a name chef, rather than one without?
We need a organization to tell the consumer how great we are at what we do (floral design) and how great our service is (world wide timley delivery of their emotion through the use of flowers). Our ability fo create expression of emotion through flowers is our biggest asset. Our designers should be highlighted and promoted for their creativity.

 

[bootcampguy]

In the restaurant business there are three models. The grocery store for raw materials (cook at home), the fast food places (for a quick take out) and thirdly the fine dining experience. Florists should first and foremost place themselves in the third option, the dining (floral) experience. We are afterall the fine chefs of the Floral Industry and therefore should be selling that expertise. After all, flowers are just a byproduct of what we really do which is relay messages of emotion to and for our customers. When something special needs to be done for a momentus occassion in our customer lives, we whould be ready and available to fulfil those wishes with the finest of product and design. The other two options are necessary to help the floral industry as a whole to sell more per captia to the consumer, therby creating greater demand for florists fine and creative design services.
It is not the wire services or mass marketers that are our emenies, it is our own inability to create an awareness of our creative ability.......................

I think florists have be all three. You have to have something for the roofer, lawn man,l factory worker and then the attorneys and doctors. I like to cook at home, I like fast food and I also like fine dinning. If you push me into a corner, then I will run from you..............Communication is the key, but what makes a great store IMO is one that can serve all the peoples needs and effectively make all of them think they are kings.

 

[BOSS]

Dang.. I hate it when I agree with Doug...

as to pitchforks however... The Boston Tea Party seemed to accomplish it's goal ...

 

[sandytf]

In the restaurant business there are three models. The grocey store for raw materials (cook at home), the fast food places (for a quick take out) and thirdly the fine dining experience. Florists should first and foremost place themselves in the third option, the dining (floral) experience. We are afterall the fine chefs of the Floral Industry and therefore should be selling that expertise. After all, flowers are just a byproduct of what we really do which is relay messages of emotion to and for our customers. When something special needs to be done for a momentus occassion in our customer lives, we whould be ready and available to fulfil those wishes with the finest of product and design. The other two options are necessary to help the floral industry as a whole to sell more per captia to the consumer, therby creating greater demand for florists fine and creative design services.
It is not the wire services or mass marketers that are our emenies, it is our own inability to create an awareness of our creative ability.
Aren's you inticed to go to a fine dining restaurant with a name chef, rather than one without?
We need a organization to tell the consumer how great we are at what we do (floral design) and how great our service is (world wide timley delivery of their emotion through the use of flowers). Our ability fo create expression of emotion through flowers is our biggest asset. Our designers should be highlighted and promoted for their creativity.

Bernie,
That is all fine and well if that is what one aspires to be (and has the wherewithal to achieve such a goal). But we do not all aspire to be the cream of the crop, king of the hill, top of the heap, A number 1.....oops! started to go off on a Frank Sinatra tune.... The fact is, we do need all levels of product and service and there's nothing wrong with a local brick and mortar wanting to be that provider. It's a great experience to go to a very fancy restaurant once in a while, but I wouldn't want it as my regular diet. First, I can't afford it. Secondly, it's time consuming. Thirdly, half the time you walk out hungry! Most of the time, Applebees is ok with me. It's quick, relatively inexpensive, casual, and I can usually find something on the menu that will safisfy myself, my husband, and both of my daughters. I have no problem being that "middle of the road" florist for regular folk. I'd rather sell cash and carry bouquets all day long then deal with Bridezillas every week. And, let's not forget, there is also the home chef, who has the palate and pocketbook for fine dining but prefers to use their own creativity and prepare their own meals. They need somewhere to get the specialty "raw ingredients".


Yeah, what he said. Apparently Rick is a little quicker on the draw than I am! (and definitely a lot less wordy )

 

[bernie]

Sandytf....
What type of flower shops are we losing.... The high end ones or the ones that are trying to compete with mass marketers?
Where do we make most of our profit? From the sale of flowers, or our ability to create? (take some time to really assess this one in your own shop)
Don't get me wrong... There is a place for all types, but I really think the best avenue is to promote our most profitable asset.

 

[bernie]

bootcampguy
Do you find all three, cook at home, fast food and fine dining all in one location? NO. Do you really believe all three are the best way to go?
Several of our suppliers have downsized the customers they deal with. 80% of business was done by 20% of their customers. They simply reffered the 80% of their customer base that did 20% to another supplier and now they fully service their best customers that make them the most profit. I once had a floral designer that was overstuffing the arrangements to make them more beautiful and better for the customer.
I told her you can't do that and remain profitable. She told me it is not always about the money. But it is always about the money.
Profit for yourself as an independent business person is the most important thing you need. You can't be all things to all people.

 

[anytimeflowers]

Dang.. I hate it when I agree with Doug...

as to pitchforks however... The Boston Tea Party seemed to accomplish it's goal ...

Don't forget the Boston Massacre. The massacre consisted of the deaths of, I think, seven people. Yes, I said seven, maybe not even that many. It rallied people against a common enemy who, btw, is now a great ally of the United States. I think this is a great way to get florists to make positive changes for their businesses.

 

[sandytf]

Sandytf....
What type of flower shops are we losing.... The high end ones or the ones that are trying to compete with mass marketers?
Where do we make most of our profit? From the sale of flowers, or our ability to create? (take some time to really assess this one in your own shop)
Don't get me wrong... There is a place for all types, but I really think the best avenue is to promote our most profitable asset.

I see what you're saying Bernie, but I tend to disagree. My belief is that a lot of the shops we're losing are the ones that think they're Tiffany but in reality are Kay Jewelers. They're charging a premium price but aren't giving premium products or services, and particularly don't have the "prestige" that a high end buyer is looking for. A florist with mylar balloons hanging from pegboard as their main shop decor is not where I expect to spend $100 for a dozen roses. I do believe there is a place for the high end boutique shops in the floral world but they're going to be few and far between. Are there more Applebees or Ruth's Chris Steakhouses in any market?

As far as flowers vs. design being the most profitable asset, read the following thread for some differing opinions on that.
One quote in particular hits the nail on the head from the esteemed Carol Bice,

No one loves good design more than me, but, the majority of customers just look for the best value. It is so hard to make a profit with just good design. ​

Read more: Over Stuffing Arrangements - Page 3
Where professional florists grow FC Professional Florist Community​

In this difficult economy and changing technical landscape each and every one of us should be taking a long, hard look at our markets, our competition, our strengths, our weaknesses, and our opportunities and plot a flexible course for the future. If you see your future as a high end boutique shop, then more power to you! I just don't see that being the option for the majority of florists out there. I don't necessarily agree with Rick that we can be everything to everybody, but we each need to shape our particular business based more on demand rather than what we "think" or "wish" they should buy. For too long, we florists have
been trying to tell our customers what they want and in the meantime, someone else has slipped in and given it to them!

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to get you to see a different perspective. I've enjoyed the posts you've made thus far and look forward to seeing more.

Sandy

 

[Matrix]

wow can't believe I just read all 22 pages, but it was worth it. I'm not a florist, but I'm passionate about the industry. I suppose that makes me an outsider. I'm not an order gatherer though, so I suppose I'm not a monster on here (hehe for now I hope).

What I am is a software guy, and I've worked with one pretty reputable person on this site to learn all about this industry. What's obvious is that it's broken, it's not so obvious how to fix it.

I'll give you the impressions that a non-florist gets from this entire mess:

Technologically inclined people came in, had skills that regular florists simply didn't have, and with money and ideas found a way to take the biggest piece of the pie without having to ever assemble one bouquet. Does that sound about right? That's the cruel nature of 2011. People who dominate the web and e-commerce are going to consistently have a leg up on those who don't. I also got the impression that if order gathers made $5-$10 on a $50 order instead of $40 (after rebates and all), maybe florists wouldn't hate them so much. It's the very idea that they can generate so much money while being at such an arm's length from an actual flower that bothers most florists, right?

Can we then agree that if order gatherers and wires made less money, and florists made more, than basically florists would be happy? I suppose I'm trying to understand fundamentally if that's the entire problem summed up in one line. If so, in my opinion the problem can be solved. A model will rise to the top that meets this eventually. Love to hear your opinions on this, because the entire tangled web is interesting to me, in the sense that I'm trying to solve it from a very mathematical sense without much feeling/emotion. I think a lot of people are very emotionally invested in this problem, and I can certainly understand why.