Florists For Change

[Doug Munro]

Agian we have reached an area where we all know there is a problem but disagree about the specifics.

The Tiffany and Kays Jewelers is a good analogy, but I suggest a partial one. I suggest this one

Tiffany's, Kay's Jewelers, Costco (don't laugh they move a lot of jewelry)

Now lets looks at Tiffanys, it is more than just jewellery, it is an experience. Everything comes into play to justify price, Customer Service, Ambiance (surroundings,staff attire, location, background music, etc), Brand, Packaging, Advertising, and most important Customer Perception.

Now jump to the other end of the scale, Costco......Price!

 

[Doug Munro]

wow can't believe I just read all 22 pages, but it was worth it. I'm not a florist, but I'm passionate about the industry. I suppose that makes me an outsider. I'm not an order gatherer though, so I suppose I'm not a monster on here (hehe for now I hope).

What I am is a software guy, and I've worked with one pretty reputable person on this site to learn all about this industry. What's obvious is that it's broken, it's not so obvious how to fix it.

I'll give you the impressions that a non-florist gets from this entire mess:

Technologically inclined people came in, had skills that regular florists simply didn't have, and with money and ideas found a way to take the biggest piece of the pie without having to ever assemble one bouquet. Does that sound about right? That's the cruel nature of 2011. People who dominate the web and e-commerce are going to consistently have a leg up on those who don't. I also got the impression that if order gathers made $5-$10 on a $50 order instead of $40 (after rebates and all), maybe florists wouldn't hate them so much. It's the very idea that they can generate so much money while being at such an arm's length from an actual flower that bothers most florists, right?

Can we then agree that if order gatherers and wires made less money, and florists made more, than basically florists would be happy? I suppose I'm trying to understand fundamentally if that's the entire problem summed up in one line. If so, in my opinion the problem can be solved. A model will rise to the top that meets this eventually. Love to hear your opinions on this, because the entire tangled web is interesting to me, in the sense that I'm trying to solve it from a very mathematical sense without much feeling/emotion. I think a lot of people are very emotionally invested in this problem, and I can certainly understand why.

Probably well said, and pretty much sums it up. The one thing I would add after much observation on this board is that most fulfillers assign very little if any value to the work and investment that someone has to make to generate an order.

 

[bernie]

Matrix
The problem is mostly that florists are so mad at wire services that they won't take the time to discuss with the services how to change for the better. This meeting in Las Vegas creates the posibillity to form a unified group to discuss the changes that can and should be made for all. The wire services will not exist in the format that they are to-day. If we as florists don't find common ground to discuss with the services what changes should be made, the services will just re-invent themselves to maintain their bottom line. They already have all the systyems in place needed for these changes to take place, we just need to force them to change for the betterment of all. Both by price (what they charge) and the services they provide.

 

[BOSS]

The one thing I would add after much observation on this board is that most fulfillers assign very little if any value to the work and investment that someone has to make to generate an order.

Except... did they really "generate" that order, or did they take it away from someone else? I would suggest (and FTD would agree) that there are no more orders today than 10 years ago. That being the case, that suggest that pirates have invaded the island, raped and pillaged their way to profits, and removed them from the industry.

I agree with you Doug, local mom and pop slob florists need to do a better job of marketing their own back yard... that said, I too fell they (and the consumer) deserve protection for endorsed unethical behavior... "state sponsored terrorism"...

And Matrix... you summed it up in a nut shell... on a $50 wire order, an order gatherer can clear roughly $33.95 while the filler fool gets about $34.00 including delivery... yep... seems fair to me... yes the florists should have been swifter to the plate, they should not have trusted the wires to uphold their own rules... silly florists...

But the time seems to be at hand to raise the consciousness of florists across the land, and hopefully ignite a fire that will effect change on a broad spectrum of industry segments not just wire services.

While it may seem that wire services are the focus of Florists For Change, there are many other areas that need to be, and will be addressed in the future. Wire services are the "flash point" that really gets florists attention... time will tell, but I look to Florists For Change to do some good for the industry, whether you're in a wire service or not.

 

[bernie]

Really strange.... Florists used to own the wire service.....
Maybe, looking forward, its time to buy it back. Then franchise the shops along the line. Just a suggestion.
It is only a thought, don't hammer me......

 

[jamie]

Honestly, it looks to me like Doug is the one with the real problem. Mom & Pop isn't making any money filling for the WS, so when they quit they will either be better or the same. Doug needs quality fillers for his business model to work. IF this meeting decides to storm up to the TF CEO and demand a 90/10 split and a cherry on top and TF says "Yes we will do whatever you please. Just don't leave us!" Then the WS model will continue, but the people who are filling under value will still be in the WS and Doug will still have the same problem. Just because the rules change doesn't mean the players will change.

BTW I assume that Doug generates a lot of wire out work through either saavy collection of corporate accounts or good old fashioned OGing. If I am mistaken then Doug doesn't have a problem.

 

[kt4ye]

Really strange.... Florists used to own the wire service.....
Maybe, looking forward, its time to buy it back. Then franchise the shops along the line. Just a suggestion.
It is only a thought, don't hammer me......

I won't hammer you. This idea comes up from time to time.

AFAIK FTD was the only florist-owned wire service. And it was run so poorly that it had to be sold or closed.

In general, co-operatives are poorly run and cannot compete with for-profit operations. Only in a government controlled (Socialist or Communist) economy is it possible for a co-op to compete. And I'm not QUITE ready for that in my life!

All the best,

Bill

 

[anytimeflowers]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/FTD/114769528536166

Check out this page. I knew nothing about it, apparently someone is taking anything they find with FTD in it that is negative and posting it on this page. What do you think? Getting ammo together for a large lawsuit against all of us? Slander? I can't help but notice that they cut off the beginning of the post of mine that they used. I especially find it amusing that it says "Other related posts by friends". Er, uhm, not a friend here.

 

[sandytf]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/FTD/114769528536166

Check out this page. I knew nothing about it, apparently someone is taking anything they find with FTD in it that is negative and posting it on this page. What do you think? Getting ammo together for a large lawsuit against all of us? Slander? I can't help but notice that they cut off the beginning of the post of mine that they used.

Linda,
I believe you can only see those posts if you're a member of that group. Try having someone else look at it and I believe they will only see the public messages that have FTD in them. I hope

 

[steve]

It shows no post when I go to it?

 

[KABERS]

It shows no post when I go to it?

me too - nothing

 

[Lizi]

Do you have to like the page to view it? It was blank Don't see how it could be slander since there are 1000's of negative comments on facebook about them. The comments may be negative but true.

 

[anytimeflowers]

Steve, are you signed into facebook when you go to it? It should show, because we are facebook friends. I dunno. It was the post where I quoted Bill's post about all three of the wire services, and the result of consumers finding a different gift. I signed out of facebook and tried to look and it didn't show up. One of your posts is showing to me also, under Chappel's.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

I clicked on Lindas' Link and went right to a page headed FTD with about 16 comments on it and i don't think I'm logged in to FB unless it stays logged in (new computer so not sure what it is doing)

I don't see any comments that are incendiary. Just the truth as we all know it. Bloomz comment about a rejection after hours from a shop he sent order to is more an indictment on florist, but would that order not have rejected auto. (it's been several years since I dealt with WS's)

 

[anytimeflowers]

Here are screen shots of the page. My computer went completely haywire after I got the pictures, one of them I couldn't even name and I couldn't open anything. I had to shut down my computer, all seems fine now.



Sorry, they are not in order. I don't know why. I named the fb page of FTD and the pages one - four. Look on the bottom to see which page you are viewing.

 

[Doug Munro]

Honestly, it looks to me like Doug is the one with the real problem. Mom & Pop isn't making any money filling for the WS, so when they quit they will either be better or the same. Doug needs quality fillers for his business model to work. IF this meeting decides to storm up to the TF CEO and demand a 90/10 split and a cherry on top and TF says "Yes we will do whatever you please. Just don't leave us!" Then the WS model will continue, but the people who are filling under value will still be in the WS and Doug will still have the same problem. Just because the rules change doesn't mean the players will change.

BTW I assume that Doug generates a lot of wire out work through either saavy collection of corporate accounts or good old fashioned OGing. If I am mistaken then Doug doesn't have a problem.

Why when there is a disagreement about something I say that I am suddenly painted as an order gatherer (BTW, I don't necessarily see all OG's as bad things) when the reality is that we have over 40 retail locations and a large portion of the orders we generate go directly to them. In fact that is The very reason we started a web site and call center years ago, for the benefit of our stores. The bottom line is that in most cases the average retail flower shop does not have the time or resources to compete on line. If you were to ask any of our stores what they think about the orders we generate they would tell you they thinks it is a great thing.

So get off your high horse, because in theory we are 40 times the florist that you are.....lol

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Sorry Doug, ole buddy, ole OG (since your calling yourself that)! I find your post to be incredibly offensive to Jamie and any other of the thousands of mom and pop shops that work with integrity.

If your proud of your 40 locations and the way you get your orders that's fine, but don't be rude, it's not becoming to anyone.

Your final comment with laughter is appauling. Grow up!

 

[theRKF]

Sorry Doug, ole buddy, ole OG (since your calling yourself that)! I find your post to be incredibly offensive to Jamie and any other of the thousands of mom and pop shops that work with integrity.

If your proud of your 40 locations and the way you get your orders that's fine, but don't be rude, it's not becoming to anyone.

Your final comment with laughter is appauling. Grow up!

Oh, come on ... that was funny!!

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

Oh, come on ... that was funny!!

Don't think so...............I didn't think Doug would go that low! Posts like that are not called for.

 

[Doug Munro]

Wasnt intended to be funny

My point was that time and time again the term "Order Gatherer" is thrown around on this board as a slur of insult.

The fact is that there is a great deal of animosity towards those that have successfully used the technology in today's world to make a living. That is not to say that some are not doing so by using deceit methods, But don't lump all successful e- commerce florists into that category, any more than you can categorize all retail florists as hard working honest individuals.

If you want to change the industry in a positive manner that's great, but don't attempt to do it on the basis that it's your way or the highway. As I have stated many times, if you don't like the wire services...... Quit and get on with your life.