Florists Sue FTD Over Bloomnet Surcharge

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

What would be the rational choice if you were George? I think resonable people may disagree here.

In any case, Prisoner Dilemma concept can explain many "irrational" behavior, anything from environmental issue to why many florists are paying for TF/FTD internal websites.

Great post Goldfish.....the fly in the ointment is the IRRATIONAL behaviour, of otherwise rational people!!
We've spent YEARS trying to figure out the driving force behind the "divine" REQUIREMENT to belong (to a ws, or similar) yet would "knock" at death's door SHOULD there NOT be a WS to blame for the "ills" of our industry!!
None the less, a very dramatic post.....we need MORE rationalizations in this form...simple enough for REAL FLORISTS to understand!!

 

[goldfish]

.....the fly in the ointment is the IRRATIONAL behaviour, of otherwise rational people!!
We've spent YEARS trying to figure out the driving force behind the "divine" REQUIREMENT to belong (to a ws, or similar) yet would "knock" at death's door SHOULD there NOT be a WS to blame for the "ills" of our industry!!

The essence of "Prisoner's Dilemma" phenomenon is a conflict between individual and group rationality. A group whose members pursue rational self-interest would all end up *worse* off than a group whose members cooperate and act contrary to self-interest.

When we individuals make decisions (like join or not join a wire service), we all try to maximize our own payoff from these decisions. Unfortunately, there are many situations where, if we individuals pursue self-interests, we *as a group* end up being worse off. That's what we are seeing here.

In the previous example of two florists (George and Bill), as a group, they would definitely be better off if they both remained independent (i.e., not joining a wire service). But individual rationale dictates that, no matter what the other florist does, each florist would be better off joining the service. As the result, both florists end up joining it and therefore worse off as a group.

Likewise, those florists who join multiple wire-services are making rational decisions at individual level. But since almost every one of their competitors are doing the same, they all end up being worse off than anticipated.

It's just that there is a conflict between individual rationality and group rationality in the case of wire services.

There is no technical solution for this conflict, because individuals, whether they are persons or businesses, always pursue self-interests. That's human nature and cannot be changed. Appeal to consciousness, morality, ethics, whatever, will not succeed. If it could, we wouldn't have a highway (group interest) littered with all those garbages thrown out of passing cars (individual interests).

I feel that wire services are here to stay, unfortunately I might add. On the other hand, we might be seeing a kind of "florist" (note the double quote) who only does wire-in orders. This florist will be located perhaps in an industrial park near a major highway. They don't care about walk-ins because they have none. They will have a fleet of delivery vans and highly efficient delivery tracking and inventory control system, so that they can take low-margin orders and still make money.

If this kind of super flower-delivery specialist pops ups, any small retail florists within 30 mile radius might be wiped out if they are dependent on wire-ins. What would happen if Wal-Mart/FTD started doing something like this? Or are they already? If wire services stay, I feel that's what is going to happen: emergence of efficient wire-in filling specialists. Any individual florist whose businesses depend on wire-ins would not be able to compete.

 

[BOSS]

Maybe. But after all the false starts that I've backed and empty promises that I've heard and totally dishonest black hat ripoffs of other honest people's good intentions and money that I've witnessed, I'd have to be convinced before I opened up the bank account or commited any time.

I guess I've found the powers that be of too many organizations that have promoted themselves as representing real florists have been less than truthful, less than honest, mostly self-serving, and totally incapable or unwilling to do what they either claimed they would do or were elected or otherwise appointed or put in place to do.

So, after coming to the conclusion that, in a disproportionately high number of cases, people who appoint themselves to represent real florists or who otherwise manage to get appointed or elected to represent real florists seem to lack the moral integrity to do so without putting their own interests flagrantly ahead of the mission, I'll have to admit that I'm not too anxious to jump up and volunteer to financially support anything unknown after all of the corruption and "mismanagement" of other people's money by a self-serving few that many of us have witnessed since the dismantling of FTD began.

If you've got something to say or promote, show your hand. You'll get no blank check on an "unknown" here.

Agreed, understood, not suprised, and would expect nothing less and I also respect your thoughts and reasoning, thanks for your candor (like I'd expect anything less).

Still have alot to align....more folks to talk to, and items to get developed, I'll get back to ya on this, I'm just glad your willing to consider it...and I would never ask for a blank check...so far it's my money being spent.

 

[Griff]

The essence of "Prisoner's Dilemma" phenomenon is a conflict between individual and group rationality. A group whose members pursue rational self-interest would all end up *worse* off than a group whose members cooperate and act contrary to self-interest.

When we individuals make decisions (like join or not join a wire service), we all try to maximize our own payoff from these decisions. Unfortunately, there are many situations where, if we individuals pursue self-interests, we *as a group* end up being worse off. That's what we are seeing here.

Very deep thoughts, goldfish. Interesting idea - Prisoner's Dilemma. It pretty much encapsulates the real problem. Although florists realize that it is the WS that are causing them the biggest business problems and the largest threat to their survival, they continue to stay with the "ship" by reinforcing the rationale that "they can still make money by staying with their WS" or "can't handle order volumn without the WS equipment" or "need the incoming orders to keep my people busy" etc. It makes most florists an easy target when it comes to "selling" them on additional programs or adding multiple WS by convincing them that if they don't join, the other guy will and they will be out in the cold. Self interest rules out over common sense.

Without being too sarcastic, I can only see how the concept of Prisoner's Dilemma will work with someone who is about to be imprisoned and is looking for the best solution out and Florists who continue to think that WS will help their business. In my opinion, it can't apply to any other small business person who wants to start a hot dog stand, a restaurant, a dry cleaner, etc because all of these business people know from day one that they open, their business has to support them completely on whatever business they can create locally on their own merits. There is no third party that tries to sell them on how important their services are and how they can help young business with orders. Only a florist gets sucked into that sales pitch!

Fortunately, there is a growing number of florists that have learned that being independent far outweighs any offer that can be made by third parties. These florists have already determined that placing the interests of their business above those of self interest is far better for them in the long run.

And I also agree with your anology that sometime in the not to distant future, much of this will come back to haunt many of these "fillers" as the WS will only need one of two for a large area and the little guys will just be run over and left as road kill.

I guess you could make the case that Prisoner's Dilemma applies to people who are evalualting ways to stay out of jail and florists that are already imprisoned and can't find ways to get out.