FTD's look toward the future
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Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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Simple truth
If anyone just took a look at their numbers <FTD and 1-800>, you'd see very quickly that the only thing that's keeping them afloat is FLORISTS. All the rethoric about FTD and 1-800 all boils down to the vast majority of their revenue still comes directly from the FLORISTS. They talk about florists revenue as dues and membership fees and they stated there was a 10% increase in revenues over the last year. That increase amounts to about $500 per florist. Yet you are still there. The rest of their revenue is listed under consumer based business, but much of that is still same day delivery provided by FLORISTS.
You don't need to have special meetings about how to market against them. Just walk away and THEY won't have the money to market against you - that goes for all of them. YOU are their source for their marketing funds. I appreciate the old pond, new pond concept, but in all fairness to everyone, what many are saying is "give me another way to keep everything I have and I'll follow you tomorrow". Sorry, but I don't think any one of us is going to keep everything. In today's terms, the hurricane is coming and they have told you to evacuate and some are still trying to evaluate whether they should take the u-haul van or the SUV because you are trying to take all the furniture. You are not going to find the perfect system to "blend" with your POS or you are not going to find a "new" concept that just happens to be another 20-80 program. NEW means NEW! Learn to accept it.
You really want to exit - develop an exit strategy! Florists are leaving the WS from the bottom of the pyramid. True, some are just closing and going out of business, but many others are just going the direct route and the WS know it. The people at the top of the pyramid will be the last ones to leave, so don't worry about them. Like many people, they will always think they can weather out the storm. I hope for their sake, they can.
If anyone just took a look at their numbers <FTD and 1-800>, you'd see very quickly that the only thing that's keeping them afloat is FLORISTS. All the rethoric about FTD and 1-800 all boils down to the vast majority of their revenue still comes directly from the FLORISTS. They talk about florists revenue as dues and membership fees and they stated there was a 10% increase in revenues over the last year. That increase amounts to about $500 per florist. Yet you are still there. The rest of their revenue is listed under consumer based business, but much of that is still same day delivery provided by FLORISTS.
You don't need to have special meetings about how to market against them. Just walk away and THEY won't have the money to market against you - that goes for all of them. YOU are their source for their marketing funds. I appreciate the old pond, new pond concept, but in all fairness to everyone, what many are saying is "give me another way to keep everything I have and I'll follow you tomorrow". Sorry, but I don't think any one of us is going to keep everything. In today's terms, the hurricane is coming and they have told you to evacuate and some are still trying to evaluate whether they should take the u-haul van or the SUV because you are trying to take all the furniture. You are not going to find the perfect system to "blend" with your POS or you are not going to find a "new" concept that just happens to be another 20-80 program. NEW means NEW! Learn to accept it.
You really want to exit - develop an exit strategy! Florists are leaving the WS from the bottom of the pyramid. True, some are just closing and going out of business, but many others are just going the direct route and the WS know it. The people at the top of the pyramid will be the last ones to leave, so don't worry about them. Like many people, they will always think they can weather out the storm. I hope for their sake, they can.
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
One Less Member Supporting Them
I have recieved our termination notice from FTD. I noticed that they make it very clear to remove all images and logos from your location. Today I removed anything that suggested I was a FTD member including those little mouse pads and replace them with the staples generic mouse pads. I stoped filling FTD.co orders a year ago and now they will not be getting my donation of membership funds from our store. I know I am one store but at least I know I have taken the step. Every florist knows what is going on I do not understand why so many of them are ignoring every piece of information that all of us provide to so many different fourms.
I have recieved our termination notice from FTD. I noticed that they make it very clear to remove all images and logos from your location. Today I removed anything that suggested I was a FTD member including those little mouse pads and replace them with the staples generic mouse pads. I stoped filling FTD.co orders a year ago and now they will not be getting my donation of membership funds from our store. I know I am one store but at least I know I have taken the step. Every florist knows what is going on I do not understand why so many of them are ignoring every piece of information that all of us provide to so many different fourms.
Thank you Eric for your choice. Thank you Griff for saying it in a mannor I could not. And Jerry... your bus idea is still the coolest thing I have ever heard in the floral industry!! lol
Thanks Brandon,
I just hooked up with a high school, that has no florist in town. The student council puts on the homecoming dance. The bus is going to the school next week, take orders, take money. The student council will get a percentage back to help pay for the dance. I will hopefully get all the orders(you would think). Yesterday they called about doing football mums also off the bus, and roses for the king-queen court. It's snow balling.
PS. Bossman, the ring is a hit, thanks again.
Sorry for the drift.
I just hooked up with a high school, that has no florist in town. The student council puts on the homecoming dance. The bus is going to the school next week, take orders, take money. The student council will get a percentage back to help pay for the dance. I will hopefully get all the orders(you would think). Yesterday they called about doing football mums also off the bus, and roses for the king-queen court. It's snow balling.
PS. Bossman, the ring is a hit, thanks again.
Sorry for the drift.
It appears that investors don't think much of FTD's current look to the future. Have a glance at this week's trend. The stock hit a new low during yesterday's session - $9.95 per share.
Here's a picture of the track since the February IPO and an interesting comment from the Yahoo board.
Here's a picture of the track since the February IPO and an interesting comment from the Yahoo board.
Griff
Ironic isn't it? Looks like the share holders have figured it out, the consumers are figuring it out and now the analysts have it figured out. Only the florists haven't figured it out. As Tom Carlson says, WS is like a relegion. For some unexplainable reason, florists continue to believe that it is the WS that is holding them together, When in actuality, it is the florists that are the only thing holding up the WS.
Ironic isn't it? Looks like the share holders have figured it out, the consumers are figuring it out and now the analysts have it figured out. Only the florists haven't figured it out. As Tom Carlson says, WS is like a relegion. For some unexplainable reason, florists continue to believe that it is the WS that is holding them together, When in actuality, it is the florists that are the only thing holding up the WS.
Well said, Griff.
Take a look at the market cap - 306.34M. Green Group paid 420M when a number of industry insiders valued FTD at a little over 200M.
52wk Range: 9.95 - 13.95 - Is that the new florist-delivered marketing price point?
Take a look at the market cap - 306.34M. Green Group paid 420M when a number of industry insiders valued FTD at a little over 200M.
52wk Range: 9.95 - 13.95 - Is that the new florist-delivered marketing price point?
My Take Is.......
Looks to me like, they have the wrong folks running FTD. As it begins to become clear to those investing in FTD. Soon enough we will see some changes from the Top down at FTD.
I welcome the changes to come. However, FTD will never again be the company that it once was. They are today, and will always be, a direct threat to the longevity, prosperity and the future generations of Retail Florists.
Just keep that in mind when you sit down and plan the future direction of your Flower Shop. It’s like paying the Mafia to protect you in your neighborhood. Is the neighborhood really that dangerous, or have they just convinced you that you need their protection?
Looks to me like, they have the wrong folks running FTD. As it begins to become clear to those investing in FTD. Soon enough we will see some changes from the Top down at FTD.
I welcome the changes to come. However, FTD will never again be the company that it once was. They are today, and will always be, a direct threat to the longevity, prosperity and the future generations of Retail Florists.
Just keep that in mind when you sit down and plan the future direction of your Flower Shop. It’s like paying the Mafia to protect you in your neighborhood. Is the neighborhood really that dangerous, or have they just convinced you that you need their protection?
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
My take...along with Rob's is
That they are most likely within the next 14-18 months gonna put FTD back on the selling block, once they can get out with the cash...
If the price continues downward tho...there may be no takers...
Too bad Green and Co, do not see the florists for the value they could be in helping to right the ship. Of course the florists would cost them money...oh now I get it...
That they are most likely within the next 14-18 months gonna put FTD back on the selling block, once they can get out with the cash...
If the price continues downward tho...there may be no takers...
Too bad Green and Co, do not see the florists for the value they could be in helping to right the ship. Of course the florists would cost them money...oh now I get it...
PhillyPhlorist
Pro Member
- Feb 7, 2004
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In agreement....
Rob - you hit it on the head with your first words! CLEARLY the correct people are not at the top. How DUMB can you be, to send a letter to florists, in the middle of September, advertising ALL they have done for "you" the member of FTD, and in order to stay "competative", raise a fee $10 a month RETROACTIVE to the beginning of that month, after THE SUMMER SEASON!!! A, shall we say, ummm... SLOW time of year for florists!!! Heck, I know of THREE florists who MAY NOT BE AROUND by the end of the year because the summer was so slow over hear in the Mid-Atlantic region.
Stupid people. NO justification for that move - NONE.
Yes, I bleed FTD Black and Gold. My father does, his father before him, and HIS father before him!
But...cha-know what? I'm putting a band-aid on that bleeding....REAL SOON. We are not going to take it anymore.
As some of you have mentioned, every florists' future business plan should be phasing out the W/S.
Well, guess what...that's happening around here. Today.
- H.
ROBSWF said:
Rob - you hit it on the head with your first words! CLEARLY the correct people are not at the top. How DUMB can you be, to send a letter to florists, in the middle of September, advertising ALL they have done for "you" the member of FTD, and in order to stay "competative", raise a fee $10 a month RETROACTIVE to the beginning of that month, after THE SUMMER SEASON!!! A, shall we say, ummm... SLOW time of year for florists!!! Heck, I know of THREE florists who MAY NOT BE AROUND by the end of the year because the summer was so slow over hear in the Mid-Atlantic region.
Stupid people. NO justification for that move - NONE.
Yes, I bleed FTD Black and Gold. My father does, his father before him, and HIS father before him!
But...cha-know what? I'm putting a band-aid on that bleeding....REAL SOON. We are not going to take it anymore.
As some of you have mentioned, every florists' future business plan should be phasing out the W/S.
Well, guess what...that's happening around here. Today.
- H.
Sher
New Member
Never thought I'd feel that way
But I am over "donating" to the gold and black. I do not feel that the top level really cares about the florist anymore except for the revenue. It is all about them. All someone would have to do at this point would be to come in with decent images, a way to transfer orders besides the phone or fax and a good group rate on credit card processing. There are too many ways out there to get your website up without either WS so that should not hold anybody anymore, and all of the other stuff could be shopped....I'd be willing to bet that if the Florist EVER united as a group, we'd even be able to purchase thngs like health insurance, get reduced rates on other services, buy direct from the big guys etc....I am really fed up today.
Maybe a spread sheet on the actually costs of being a member vs the cost of non membership and a new system of moving orders across the country would bring forth some action....something....
How sad to see the direction that the gold and black is heading.Wonder if the green guys even have a clue that if get off the train, they will have a problem...not with drop ship but with everything else.
But I am over "donating" to the gold and black. I do not feel that the top level really cares about the florist anymore except for the revenue. It is all about them. All someone would have to do at this point would be to come in with decent images, a way to transfer orders besides the phone or fax and a good group rate on credit card processing. There are too many ways out there to get your website up without either WS so that should not hold anybody anymore, and all of the other stuff could be shopped....I'd be willing to bet that if the Florist EVER united as a group, we'd even be able to purchase thngs like health insurance, get reduced rates on other services, buy direct from the big guys etc....I am really fed up today.
Maybe a spread sheet on the actually costs of being a member vs the cost of non membership and a new system of moving orders across the country would bring forth some action....something....
How sad to see the direction that the gold and black is heading.Wonder if the green guys even have a clue that if get off the train, they will have a problem...not with drop ship but with everything else.
Here's why
Why can't you get florists to band together. MONEY!
You can't get florists to put money into anything that doesn't give them an immediate return. In our area, I have been involved in an attempt to get florists to donate money to an advertising fund whose only mission is to drive the consumer to real florist shops.
Guess what, response was low. Why? Well, there were almost a thousand reasons and after all is said and done, there are only a few that understand what it means.
Most florists think that if they spend $100 on advertising it should at least bring them a $1,000 of business. And that advertising once should be enough to make an impact. Or better yet, let other florists spend their money and they will get some response for free from the others advertising. If I am a little negative, it's because it's so hard go get the idea through to florists, that the only people who are going to help florists, are other florists. And if we do band together and pool our resources together, we can make a difference in our industry.
Oh and by the way, every florist has his or her own idea as to how to save our industry. And every single one of those ideas revolve around spending someone elses money. It is so hard to get florists to realize that they and only they can make a difference. It's not going to come from some outside source for free.
Why can't you get florists to band together. MONEY!
You can't get florists to put money into anything that doesn't give them an immediate return. In our area, I have been involved in an attempt to get florists to donate money to an advertising fund whose only mission is to drive the consumer to real florist shops.
Guess what, response was low. Why? Well, there were almost a thousand reasons and after all is said and done, there are only a few that understand what it means.
Most florists think that if they spend $100 on advertising it should at least bring them a $1,000 of business. And that advertising once should be enough to make an impact. Or better yet, let other florists spend their money and they will get some response for free from the others advertising. If I am a little negative, it's because it's so hard go get the idea through to florists, that the only people who are going to help florists, are other florists. And if we do band together and pool our resources together, we can make a difference in our industry.
Oh and by the way, every florist has his or her own idea as to how to save our industry. And every single one of those ideas revolve around spending someone elses money. It is so hard to get florists to realize that they and only they can make a difference. It's not going to come from some outside source for free.
Just an opinion...
But florists are telling other florists they have to advertise more, Florists are telling florists that a website is a must and advertising on the internet is a must. Other florists are telling florists NOT to accept orders from order gatherers and yet many of these same florists are order gatherers also. Florists tell other florists they must ban together and try to convince other local florists to do so, but at the same time, these same florists have always referred to these local florists as THEIR competition. And finally many florists keep talking about how bad the WS is treating them and yet continue to send the monthly dues and fees. Problem is, no one trusts anyone anymore! Even if the florists had some extra cash, would you be willing to "throw" it into a general pot for the "group to advertise with or would you decide to keep whatever funds you do have and spend it on your own company?? Seems to me, the answer is simple. Can't find any two florists that can agree what the problem is and how to solve it. Our businesses are not part of a franchise although the WS would have liked it that way. Unfortunately, we all got into these problems because each of us wanted to do "our thing" as business people and we are going to have to figure how to get "out of it" as best we can and not as a group.
But florists are telling other florists they have to advertise more, Florists are telling florists that a website is a must and advertising on the internet is a must. Other florists are telling florists NOT to accept orders from order gatherers and yet many of these same florists are order gatherers also. Florists tell other florists they must ban together and try to convince other local florists to do so, but at the same time, these same florists have always referred to these local florists as THEIR competition. And finally many florists keep talking about how bad the WS is treating them and yet continue to send the monthly dues and fees. Problem is, no one trusts anyone anymore! Even if the florists had some extra cash, would you be willing to "throw" it into a general pot for the "group to advertise with or would you decide to keep whatever funds you do have and spend it on your own company?? Seems to me, the answer is simple. Can't find any two florists that can agree what the problem is and how to solve it. Our businesses are not part of a franchise although the WS would have liked it that way. Unfortunately, we all got into these problems because each of us wanted to do "our thing" as business people and we are going to have to figure how to get "out of it" as best we can and not as a group.
12BucksFor2Dozon
New Member
IMHO, the major problem with any sort of "donation" strategy would be the need for all the administration that such an idea would entail. I develop software, and in almost all cases we "prototype" systems in order to get an idea about the overall work flow.
Can we attempt to prototype an Florist organization that would, in a perfect world, give us what we think we are looking for? In my mind, it would
1. Focus on national advertising of promoting flowers as a great gift and personal use choice.
2. Promote LOCAL, REAL FLORISTS and eschew wires, to the point of really exposing *all* WS games, and perhaps that means going head on, no-hold-barred against them.
3. Collect dues and attempt to spread them out equitably for each market.
The real sticker here is 3., because the cost of such a thing would be enormous, but in all reality it could be done by someones with great political skills and a whole lot of time and ambition.
I would be interested in other "prototype" ideas for this fictional organization...
Can we attempt to prototype an Florist organization that would, in a perfect world, give us what we think we are looking for? In my mind, it would
1. Focus on national advertising of promoting flowers as a great gift and personal use choice.
2. Promote LOCAL, REAL FLORISTS and eschew wires, to the point of really exposing *all* WS games, and perhaps that means going head on, no-hold-barred against them.
3. Collect dues and attempt to spread them out equitably for each market.
The real sticker here is 3., because the cost of such a thing would be enormous, but in all reality it could be done by someones with great political skills and a whole lot of time and ambition.
I would be interested in other "prototype" ideas for this fictional organization...
For rebuttal
Mark, at this point, it should never be about national marketing programs or how they can be financed. It is why this thread went dead. It is just rethoric. Each florist has to do some sole searching for themselves first and then they can decide what THEY have to do. Here is four questions that EVERY florist should ask and answer to themselves. This can not be about national campaigns until each of us has determined what they are willing to except and what they are not.
Question #1 - For every florist with a POS system, ask yourself if your business can survive without the current system you are currently using. Remember, a POS system is primarily an accounting package inside a computer package. The only factor that makes your POS unique is that a very small portion of the hard drive has been specially programmed to handle orders wired out and in and the maker of the system has made sure that your POS system can not commicate with any other makers system and only works with their data base of florists. If some fairy princess appreared tomorrow and was able to wave her magic wand and turn that pumpkin into a royal coach, would you be willing to invest in another system without knowing fully where the industry is really going to go in the next 5 years? Or are your planning on holding on to the old system and hope that someone comes up with a solution?
Question #2 - Are you a florist that believes that within the next 5 years florist to florist transactions will be a thing of the past and almost all consumers will be contacting the florist at final destination directly or do you believe that there will always be some percentage of consumers that will rely on their local florist to handle the transaction for them. You can make up your own percentages - 60% direct and 40% F2F or whatever. The point is, do you believe that at some near point in the future, all or the vast majority consumers will circumvent the local florist and send direct themselves. The answer to question 2 has a strong bearing on question 1.
Question #3 - As a florist, how easily can you walk away from the existing 20-80 programs with rebates? Is you business sound enough and managed properly to be able to by-pass that 20-80 ball and chain. Can your business actually survive on local business? Did you go into business as being a stand alone florist or do you think of the WS now as a necessary crutch. In other words, if the incoming stopped tomorrow, could you survive and flourish? If the number and dollar value of your outgoing stayed the same, could you survive without the 20% and rebates and only collect the sending fee? Don't tell me. Tell yourself.
Question #4 - Are you currently over 59 years old. This also is a major factor in any decisions. Are you just currently trying to ride out these tough times and feel that things will get better. Do you feel that everything will work out if you can just hang in there alittle longer. Do you tell yourself that if I just keep working harder, everything will be OK and I'm just getting a day or two closer to retirement. Or do you tell yourself, " I don't know what to do so I'll leave it in the hands of others to help me out". If any of these are your answer, don't be afraid to tell yourself that. I started collected social security and yes you attitude does change with age. It's OK.
If you can be honest with yourself to all 4 of these questions, your are much closer to YOUR solution. For example, if your answer question 2 with yes, you think that the vast majority of consumers in the future will deal directly with you, then it doesn't really matter whose POS system you have. You are not going to need it to send orders in the future or the WS connected to it. If you answer no and you think that there will still be a good percentage of consumers that will require your services to send their orders, then the POS has a different weigh to it, but will there be enough volumn to support all the dues and fees connected and the support costs of the system? It is all relative.
If you have structured your company with the WS as a crutch, and you need the incoming orders or the rebates to survive, then some time soon the WS can take the crutch away because they may no longer need YOU! 1-800 proved that to the dismay of many florists when they set up there own work centers. This can turn into a disaster on your part. If your customer base is entirely created through wire in business, what happens to you if the incoming stops abruptly? Then I guess it doesn't matter whose POS system you have or how much the check from the WS was last month. You business just went into the tank!
If you have any other questions that you think every florist should ask themselves, feel free to add. I ask and answered these questions to myself about 4 years ago. I'm very glad I did.
Mark, at this point, it should never be about national marketing programs or how they can be financed. It is why this thread went dead. It is just rethoric. Each florist has to do some sole searching for themselves first and then they can decide what THEY have to do. Here is four questions that EVERY florist should ask and answer to themselves. This can not be about national campaigns until each of us has determined what they are willing to except and what they are not.
Question #1 - For every florist with a POS system, ask yourself if your business can survive without the current system you are currently using. Remember, a POS system is primarily an accounting package inside a computer package. The only factor that makes your POS unique is that a very small portion of the hard drive has been specially programmed to handle orders wired out and in and the maker of the system has made sure that your POS system can not commicate with any other makers system and only works with their data base of florists. If some fairy princess appreared tomorrow and was able to wave her magic wand and turn that pumpkin into a royal coach, would you be willing to invest in another system without knowing fully where the industry is really going to go in the next 5 years? Or are your planning on holding on to the old system and hope that someone comes up with a solution?
Question #2 - Are you a florist that believes that within the next 5 years florist to florist transactions will be a thing of the past and almost all consumers will be contacting the florist at final destination directly or do you believe that there will always be some percentage of consumers that will rely on their local florist to handle the transaction for them. You can make up your own percentages - 60% direct and 40% F2F or whatever. The point is, do you believe that at some near point in the future, all or the vast majority consumers will circumvent the local florist and send direct themselves. The answer to question 2 has a strong bearing on question 1.
Question #3 - As a florist, how easily can you walk away from the existing 20-80 programs with rebates? Is you business sound enough and managed properly to be able to by-pass that 20-80 ball and chain. Can your business actually survive on local business? Did you go into business as being a stand alone florist or do you think of the WS now as a necessary crutch. In other words, if the incoming stopped tomorrow, could you survive and flourish? If the number and dollar value of your outgoing stayed the same, could you survive without the 20% and rebates and only collect the sending fee? Don't tell me. Tell yourself.
Question #4 - Are you currently over 59 years old. This also is a major factor in any decisions. Are you just currently trying to ride out these tough times and feel that things will get better. Do you feel that everything will work out if you can just hang in there alittle longer. Do you tell yourself that if I just keep working harder, everything will be OK and I'm just getting a day or two closer to retirement. Or do you tell yourself, " I don't know what to do so I'll leave it in the hands of others to help me out". If any of these are your answer, don't be afraid to tell yourself that. I started collected social security and yes you attitude does change with age. It's OK.
If you can be honest with yourself to all 4 of these questions, your are much closer to YOUR solution. For example, if your answer question 2 with yes, you think that the vast majority of consumers in the future will deal directly with you, then it doesn't really matter whose POS system you have. You are not going to need it to send orders in the future or the WS connected to it. If you answer no and you think that there will still be a good percentage of consumers that will require your services to send their orders, then the POS has a different weigh to it, but will there be enough volumn to support all the dues and fees connected and the support costs of the system? It is all relative.
If you have structured your company with the WS as a crutch, and you need the incoming orders or the rebates to survive, then some time soon the WS can take the crutch away because they may no longer need YOU! 1-800 proved that to the dismay of many florists when they set up there own work centers. This can turn into a disaster on your part. If your customer base is entirely created through wire in business, what happens to you if the incoming stops abruptly? Then I guess it doesn't matter whose POS system you have or how much the check from the WS was last month. You business just went into the tank!
If you have any other questions that you think every florist should ask themselves, feel free to add. I ask and answered these questions to myself about 4 years ago. I'm very glad I did.
Excellent. :thumbsup Can someone make that last post into a "sticky" at the top of the Business forum?
About marketing...The big three plus ProFlowers spent more than $170M in consumer advertising last year. I happened to think there are channels for national presentation of independent florists - but not as in any 'classic advertising' way. Bill's #2 point is part of the key.
About marketing...The big three plus ProFlowers spent more than $170M in consumer advertising last year. I happened to think there are channels for national presentation of independent florists - but not as in any 'classic advertising' way. Bill's #2 point is part of the key.
12BucksFor2Dozon
New Member
Well of course its just rhetoric, EVERYTHING here on FC is rhetoric, IMO. Yes your questions are interesting but not relevant in my analysis. I don't see most wire zombies(tm) leaving their security blanket, so any "real" organization (yes VERY pie-in-the-sky) would simply compete against them and try to give the KO blow to these hopeless souls who still think the future of this industry is about WS.Griff said:
All I think is that as soon as someone "makes the leap" that you talk about in your excellent post, they would be well served by a broad marketing strategy that raised awareness about crappy wire orders and directed customers back to real local florists. It was just a sort of "thought experiment", where florists, in a perfect world, could express thoughts about what a "perfect" organization could be. Different people, different ideas...it's all good....
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