Local Cut Flower Prices on Web Site

[SpringCity]

I like the idea of posting loose flower prices on my site so it seems dynamic and there's always something new for people to look at every few days. Also if someone wants to know "what do you have" (I was asked that today as a matter of fact), there can be pics of it right on the site.

Thanks for the thread!

 

[alisonm1215]

I think the biggest issue for me is customers seeing the 'wholesale' bunches online and and then wanting the 'full service' delivery. (I know I'm bringing up the minimum delivery debate again) This is not a problem for larger volume shops, but keep in mind here, that I run this place alone. It looks like I will be getting a person who is availble full-time to do deliveries, but unless it is a holiday/wedding, I can't afford to staff anyone else at the moment. No husband, no partner, no sisters or brothers, and the kids are grown.......utterly alone.
Wow, that sounded depressing. It won't be like this forever. I've had to cut cost and use contract labor.
So back to my point, should I go ahead and encourage stems and raw bunches for walkin traffic (DIYs) only and hold firm to that policy?

 

[goldfish]

I think marketing to DIY-ers is a trendy thing to jump on right now but it still has to be cost effective in the long haul when things ARE better again, too.

Catering to DIY'ers really has nothing to do with any fashionable trend or the current economic down turn, as far as I'm concerned. This idea wasn't fashionable only a year or so ago.

How do I know that? Because I discussed about it here in this forum. At that time, my opinion was definitely in the minority. Many rebuked me. Now I don't see that kind of hostility any more. To tell you the truth, I feel quite vindicated.

In my not-so-humble view, idea of serving DIY'ers came from the observation that DIY consumers have long been ignored by traditional florists. Since we are a new florist, it was quite natural for us to go after the segment that no florist around here seems to care.

Not so long time ago (perhaps even now), if you talked to any florist, many of them said things like "People buying flowers in supers? He, if they want crappy flowers, so be it. I don't care." Along this line. You still hear this kind of "logic" about DIY brides.

Basically these florists were ignoring a group of consumers (DIY flower consumers), just because they don't spend enough. I thought that kind of thinking was ignorant or even arrogant.

And, if I may say, this industry has paid a very heavy price for this arrogance, (or ignorance, I don't know which).

I'm writing a blog write now about Flower Shop vs Grocery Store and I'm NOT focusing on price, other than "you get what you pay for".

But price is the common denominator of any value perception, isn't it? We can't avoid this topic.

Which is a more valuable car, Lexus LS400 or Honda Civic? I don't know about you, but I believe most people have to know their prices before answering the question.

Soooo, which is more valuable, florist roses or supermarket roses? Can any consumer answer this question without knowing the respective prices? I don't think so, no.

Therefore, to convince a consumer that our roses are more valuable than "theirs", we do have to mention our prices as well as their prices. Explain what the differences are. Some will see the difference and are willing to pay a premium for it. Others won't.

If we didn't have the local schools - yes, even public schools! - churches & youth groups, in cohorts with the local greenhouse guy, doing this already, for years and years now, we *might* have a chance with this idea.

We have the same situations here (I'd add Fire Departments in the mix though). But it really doesn't matter how many competitors we have.

If you don't sell any, you make $0. A 10% profit of $20 is not zero, while 70% profit of $0 is still $0. As long as the discount sale doesn't cannibalize the existing plant sale, any additional profit is a good thing.

More importantly, it's about market share as well. Florists used to sell a lot of plants. No longer. Currently, florists have such a tiny share in holiday plant sale. Many have essentially given up on them.

They shouldn't. They must re-capture the market share. All they have to swallow is a thinner margin. But again, 70% margin of $0 is $0. 10% margin of $20 is better.

I would be even willing to go just break even, if we can capture a new market that didn't belong to us before.

 

[David]

Had the page up today and updated for next day. I think the page will help my walk in business. For the customer who doesn't know my shop it will show my nice selection and
good value pricing. It's good to try out new ideas. Only drives my parents a little crazy.

 

[TGDragonfly]

Hi David
It looks good, but it's next to impossible to find and I was looking for it from your homepage. Might I suggest a nice photo and a link to suggest your offering these specials. I think people will be curious if they see it.

 

[TGDragonfly]

You know you need to think about how you display your flower market section so that it draws attention. I built this flower cart that I sometimes rent for galas. It is used for additional fund raising efforts as guests are on their way out. It is a concept I came up and has been very profitable. I make money on the cart rental and a few bucks on the flowers, the charity makes a killing, it's a good thing. I can make these for you if you want one.I have another one that that is bubblegum pink and chocolate.

 

[aileen_c]

OMG Thom...I LOVE IT!! I soo want one!!

 

[sandytf]

We are a full service grocery store florist. I'm starting to think it's a dirty word on this site. We sell high quality, very fresh (arguably fresher than most because of the quick turnaround on product), very nice cash and carry bouquets. A lot of them. They are not "wilty". Our customers demand them to be long lasting and they are. We have customers come in and tell us their alstroemeria bouquets last up to 3 weeks!! We get compliments ALL THE TIME on the freshness and longevity of our cash and carry selections.

We get them from a wholesaler who has spent the last two years working with a grower to develop a successful cash and carry program. The same wholesaler who sells grower bunches to tradtional B & M florists (and us, too!). They have offered these same bouquets to many of their traditional B & M florists. Most of them say "we can't sell those". They have a 5 day guarantee prominently printed on the sleeve. I believe both the wholesaler and grower were forward thinking in realizing that there was a need and a niche for this product and thought "well, they are getting them from someone, why can't it be us?". It's just a part of their business, not all of it. We have another local wholesaler who has refused to embrace the changes in the industry and my guess is they won't be around much longer.

The best analogy I have heard for cash and carry flowers vs. custom design was this: You can buy a cake mix for a couple bucks and get everything else you need to go with it. Go home, mix it up, turn on your oven, bake it, frost it and you have a cake. Or...you can go to a bakery and buy a cake already made and decorated by a professional. There is a difference in the cost, time, convenience, and there is a difference in the end result as well. Also keep in mind that there is a market and place for both products! There are aunts and moms and cousins who are amateur bakers who do wedding cakes, too. Just like there are floral hobbiests who do a relative's wedding flowers. Always have been, always willl be.

Our local Walmart also sells cash and carry bouquets. Cheaper? Yes. There is night and day in the quality between theirs and ours. Do some people still buy them? Yes. Do they probably get their customers coming back week after week and purchasing flowers? My guess is no. We do. I'm willing to give the buying public enough credit to know when they have purchased junk and when they have purchased quality. We tend to point out the VALUE of the purchase, not the bottom line price.

There are other grocery stores in our markets who sell cash and carry as well. If they take good care of the product, make sure it's fresh, and have knowledgable people handling it, I consider them competition. If it's just junk, then I don't worry about it.

As florists, we engage with the customers and often find out why they are buying the flowers for so we can make suggestions. If they are looking for something long lasting for the office, we recommend alstroemeria or mini carns. If they are looking for fragrance, we can recommend freesia or gazers. Signage can be a silent salesperson as well. We show them they get KNOWLEDGE from us-more VALUE!

For the DIY wedding designers, we make it clear that we have no control over the exact color selection or varieties in our oriental lily or rose bouquets. If they have their heart set on Vendela roses for an event, we make it clear that they may not be in our rose bouquet selection when they want them. We, of course, can special order them, clean and process them, and sell them by the each. We also charge a completely different price for them. If they ask why the price is different, I will certainly explain the difference in my wholesale price, the time taken to process them, the fact that I have to buy them in a bunch of 25, etc. etc. Most people get it.

We make money on our cash and carry. Not as much as custom designs, but then we don't have the labor in them either.

We also have a loyalty card for our cash and carry bouquets. We offer to keep it for them so they don't have to remember it and dig it out every time they come in.

The point is, all of us as retailers have to keep up with the changing landscape. People are looking for ways to cut costs right now. With all due respect, do we sit arond and complain about it or become innovative and think of ways to get our piece of the pie? We need to pay attention to the whole industry and see what is working what isn't. We should copy the stuff that works. We should be CREATIVE and come up with new ideas to market, advertise and sell. We need to tell people why we are a VALUE instead of wondering why they don't know the difference. BE PROACTIVE!!!!

 

[goldfish]

I think the biggest issue for me is customers seeing the 'wholesale' bunches online and and then wanting the 'full service' delivery. (I know I'm bringing up the minimum delivery debate again) This is not a problem for larger volume shops, but keep in mind here, that I run this place alone.

Don't worry, with our experience, very few actually ask for delivery of "wholesale bunches" (we call them 'DIY pack'). 99% of them come and pick them up.

The only exception is DIY brides. Some of them want us to deliver to their home, which is fine.

You can make DIY pricing for pick-up only as a matter of policy. I see no problem with that.

Another option is to offer delivery (for a fee) but only after a certain time, so that you can deliver by yourself.

 

[goldfish]

Had the page up today and updated for next day. I think the page will help my walk in business. For the customer who doesn't know my shop it will show my nice selection and
good value pricing. It's good to try out new ideas. Only drives my parents a little crazy.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[goldfish]

We are a full service grocery store florist. I'm starting to think it's a dirty word on this site. We sell high quality, very fresh (arguably fresher than most because of the quick turnaround on product), very nice cash and carry bouquets. A lot of them. They are not "wilty". Our customers demand them to be long lasting and they are.

You know one of the best flower shops in our town (except our shop )?

It's a floral department of Wild By Nature (organic grocer). http://www.wildnature.com/departments/flowers.html

They are very good. High quality products, good prices. They beat 70% of local florists around here in quality.

 

[sandytf]

You know one of the best flower shops in our town (except our shop )?

It's a floral department of Wild By Nature (organic grocer). http://www.wildnature.com/departments/flowers.html

They are very good. High quality products, good prices. They beat 70% of local florists around here in quality.

Thank you!
I have seen sooooo many posts on this site that completely judge the quality and professionalism of the "florist" by where they are located. It's just silly. Isn't our goal to promote flowers? I am respectful of other's opinions because I realize they are probably just un-informed. But all the people who rant and rave about grocery stores selling flowers seriously need to get out and see what they are ranting about! In the past 5 years, grocery store floral departments have come a long way, although I realize they aren't all like ours. There are A LOT of locally owned B&M shops that are horrible! It's not about where you do business, it's about how you do business!

 

[duanermb]

Thank you!
I have seen sooooo many posts on this site that completely judge the quality and professionalism of the "florist" by where they are located. It's just silly. Isn't our goal to promote flowers? I am respectful of other's opinions because I realize they are probably just un-informed. But all the people who rant and rave about grocery stores selling flowers seriously need to get out and see what they are ranting about! In the past 5 years, grocery store floral departments have come a long way, although I realize they aren't all like ours. There are A LOT of locally owned B&M shops that are horrible! It's not about where you do business, it's about how you do business!

You make a good point here that I agree with, Goldie too. The grocery stores have come a long way, which is what has made us nervous as florists. The makeover of the Safeway flower department down the street didn't kill our business. Although, we feared it opening a year after we did and we had to adjust. (low cash and carry pricing) Too many people were coming in and saying Safeway price this and Safeway price that. Well, while not creative, it moves volumes of flowers. (We have a HUGE cooler to fill and big rent to pay)

And, it is possible for others to provide quality product and creativity from just about anywhere. While we shouldn't fear them, but we SHOULD make it undesirable for them to open up shop. This is a secondary factor of our new brand creation. While we will never be an island in our area as far as flowers go, we can at least build something that is so recognizable (and backed with product and service) that others will think twice about coming into our territory.

 

[goldfish]

In the past 5 years, grocery store floral departments have come a long way, although I realize they aren't all like ours. There are A LOT of locally owned B&M shops that are horrible!

I agree.

This notion that super's floral departments are categorically bad, is totally outdated and, more often than not, just a self-congratulating fantasy of some florists IMO.

As far as I know, many of these supermarket shops are run by real pros, not just a temp gal hired off the street. Some of the supers here (STOP and SHOP) do a lot of wedding work and funeral work, too. They are a very serious competitor and we love it!

While many mom&pop florists keep whining but doing nothing, these supermarket flower shops have made concrete efforts to improve their services and product qualities. They deserve the success.

I think every mom&pop florist should embrace competition, whether it's coming from supers like yours or Internet florists. Visit a local supermarket, see and learn what they are doing that makes it so successful. We learned a lot from them actually, particularly in merchandising and display.

 

[sandytf]

And, it is possible for others to provide quality product and creativity from just about anywhere. While we shouldn't fear them, but we SHOULD make it undesirable for them to open up shop. This is a secondary factor of our new brand creation. While we will never be an island in our area as far as flowers go, we can at least build something that is so recognizable (and backed with product and service) that others will think twice about coming into our territory.

Exactly!!

You are doing what every savy business owner does: embracing your competition, learning from them, and then differentiating yourself from them! If you dominate the market because you offer the value of quality products and excellent service, most competition will think twice. However, if they see a niche you are not filling, they are going to come in and fill that niche-because there is a market for it!

Last year, we had a very talented designer open a shop in our town. She has worked for other shops in the area and has had her own shop in the past in a nearby town. She specializes in weddings and is well known for them. We could have sat around and whined about the fact that she was taking wedding business away from us-but she actually made me realize we really hadn't been very aggressive about booking weddings. We were happy enough with the ones who walked through the door. Well, now there weren't as many walking through the door so she forced us to get better! Some of the things we are implementing in that location will also help some of our other locations as well. So. Her competition is making us better!! (by the way, she is only open about 3 days/week and does limited deliveries-so does that mean she's not a "real" florist?)

It seems like some people just want to live in the past-"the way it used to be"-but the world keeps turnin'!

 

[twiggy]

I would like to offer mixed wrapped bouquets and loose flowers, I just wonder how long would it take for it to really catch on-
I suppose other florists think the same thing. "will I go broke before this takes off?"
so I'm hesitant about jumping in-even though I would love to.

 

[sandytf]

I would like to offer mixed bouquets and loose flowers, I just wonder how long would it take for it to really catch on-
I suppose other florists think the same thing. "will I go broke before this takes off?"
so I'm hesitant about jumping in-even though I would love to.

I understand your apprehension. Even in a high traffic grocery store atmosphere, sometimes it takes a while for new things to catch on. I looked at your website (pretty shop!) to try and get an idea of what type of store you have. How much walk-in traffic do you have now? It looks like perhaps you are on a main road according to the map? Maybe something visible from the road such as a large, bright sign with a weekly special on it would get cars to stop? Do you have convenient parking for them to easily pull in and pull out?

I would start small with a "signature" bouquet or maybe a couple different bouquets at different price points. If you go with something longer lasting, you will have less shrink. Or, you could try seasonal bouquets such as daffs or tulips right now. We do really well with a mixed novelty mum bouquet from Sept. all the way through Thanksgiving. It has all the "fall" colors in it and is long lasting. It's a 7 stem and we retail it for $6.99.

You may also think of offering a bouquet of the types of flowers you use often in design work. That way, if you aren't going through them as a cash and carry item, you can use them in everyday or sympathy work. We are careful during slow times to use our cash and carry bouquets in everyday work instead of buying more stock off the truck or ordering in more from another wholesaler.

How about trying to offer something just during holidays to start out? Easter and Mother's Day would be great opportunities to try it out since you have more traffic.

I notice you have an interactive website-maybe you should ask your customers what they would like to see?

Just a few suggestions. Good luck!

P.S. I cracks me up that your shop name is Twigs. We are Trig's and everyone calls us Twigs!!

 

[Knife's Wife]

I have been taking about real competition with a local grocery store that has been posing real competition for years. We have a grocery store here that is far superior to many shops.

Here is my personal objections to the above flower shop in the grocery store that I have spoken of.

They have very big buying power to the point that no one here not even RC could obtain the quality of flowers at their price.
They sell their products for pennies on the dollar, and many many times sell their products at a loss. Yes at a loss! Just to get the customer in the store in to buy their groceries. Well actually their prepared foods and every other overpriced service they are allowed to provide. I would much prefer they sell that gorgeous 10" poinsettia at $45.00 to my $60.00 poinsettia than to loose money on it buy pricing it at $19.99 to obtain the customer. That price is impossible to compete with.
I do not see them undercutting the other services they provide, their competitively priced with their dry cleaning, their movie rentals, their prescription drugs have always been more, their giftware...there is a lot of it and very good quality, is higher priced then comparable stores. Their take out food and eat in restaurant food is pricier than most nice restaurants, their help yourself salad bar runs $6.99 per pound. Think about that one $6.99 for a pound of lettuce, a pound of cucumbers, carrots, hard boiled eggs, sunflower seeds, fruit cocktail, cottage cheese, celery, the list goes on...all $6.99 per pound. Do you know how many eggs make up a pound? It is a joke.
So what is my @@@@@... they have taken flowers and plants and only flowers and plants to use as their big loss leader.
I have done everything possible to be competitive with the grocery stores that I can with out loosing money to do so. What I can't do because I am not allowed to my law, some state, some local, some zoning... is carry any product like, bread, eggs, milk, vegetables, etc. that I can sell as a loss leader just to get them in the store. Hell, I can't even sell them at full value price, because I am not allowed to sell them at all.
I spent a lot of time polling customers about coffee, I found that there was a real need for a convenient place to purchase a good cup of coffee to go for commuters on the way to work. That was one thing I knew the grocery superstore could not compete with me on. So I did my research, found my edge, priced out the coffee products, and vendors, equipment etc... And when I was ready to go forward the town told me at first I could not do it. Then they decided that I could do it but I was not allowed to advertise in any way shape of form outside of my establishment, not even in the window could I have a sign of any sort that would give the message that I had coffee for sale.

Looks like the next business to fall under their wrath will be the local liquor store, as here in NY it is expected to pass that the grocery stores will be able to carry wine. Did I sign their petition for it, hell no.
So, fire away those who don't feel the same way as me.
Joan

 

[sandytf]

They have very big buying power to the point that no one here not even RC could obtain the quality of flowers at their price.
They sell their products for pennies on the dollar, and many many times sell their products at a loss. Yes at a loss! Just to get the customer in the store in to buy their groceries. Well actually their prepared foods and every other overpriced service they are allowed to provide. I would much prefer they sell that gorgeous 10" poinsettia at $45.00 to my $60.00 poinsettia than to loose money on it buy pricing it at $19.99 to obtain the customer. That price is impossible to compete with.

I sympathize with the big buying power. We are an independent 5 store chain so in comparison with the big chains we are tiny. We can't compete with their buying power either. Walmart often sells floral products for less than we pay wholelsale for them. We can't touch their price on a poinsettia, but we can put a bow on it, take care of it so that it doesn't look like crap a day after hitting the store, wrap it up snug in double plastic bags so that it doesn't freeze as soon as the customer takes it out the door, tell people how to care for it, etc. etc.

I don't think the big boxes are going away. Maybe, just maybe, in this economic climate they will decide they can't afford to have all the loss leaders to get people in the door. Who knows.

In the meantime, we try to differentiate ourselves as much as possible. We aren't the cheapest or the most expensive. However, we offer a quality product, give great service, and charge a fair price. We offer real value and we tell the customer that every chance we get. It's not easy. I don't know about all grocery stores out there, but we have a monthly P&L to answer to and we are expected to make money!!

It seems as though you have been trying to differentiate yourself and have met resistance. Keep trying and Good luck!

Sandy

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Joan,

I don't believe most grocery stores, including Price Choppers, use their flower departments as loss leaders. Jon Strom, who runs the flower division for the Price Chopper chain indicated to me the flower departments are very for them.

I buy from some of the same suppliers as they do, even have a same sales rep. Much of difference isn't how much the product is bought for but how much it's sold for. Grocery stores are used to selling on lower mark ups. My observation from Kroger is for example if they buy a bunch for $5 they sell it for $9.95.

The other even bigger advantage is the volume of foot traffic walking by the flower departments every day at grocery store. They may have more foot traffic walking by in a couple days as many florist have in a year. So for grocery stores flowers not only become a convenience buy but also an impulse buy. At one time we ran flower departments for several small grocery chains in the Dayton area. We found the high volume stores did very well, while the low volume stores struggled.

RC