Marketing Games WSs Play....

[lori042499]

Flag on the play! I call foul on this one

Most florists have the resources, and access to the knowledge. It's a choice. If you can't afford $100 / mo for a web site, and a small annual fund for professional development, then what you have is an underfunded business, not an OG issue. It's not the OG's fault that your business (the general "you") is that tight now (or that too many new shops are under capitalized from day 1).

Ryan Partially true....most small shops are underfunded from the very beginning...mine being one of them. One person with a dream not much money and some drive is what many flower shops are made of, not the best for getting a biz off the ground but happens every day...

That being said, not enough knowledge but enough money can be a recipe for disaster also...I know many shops that are throwing money into social media campaigns, marketing campaigns, advertising campaigns and being taken for hundreds or dollars on some less than effective stuff, but because they have no idea how to track it, what they are tracking and the fact that they are organically busy in their own market already think it is the marketing working...This is many many owners of turn key businesses that they bought an aleady busy shop or many 2nd or 3rd generation florists inheriting an already busy shop...when numbers start slipping they keep funnelling money into these costs ad before you know it they are in trouble...it happens all the time...their fault, yes most definately...

Fact of the matter is that not everyone grows up with the entrepenurial gene, not everyone will know how to do everything in business well....but without us little shops that know what we know best...FLOWERS, these OGs CANNOT exist...but because the do out pace us in marketing for what ever reasons the service the provide or don't provide does reflect on our industry to the detriment of how well we know what we sell, even if we don't market well, or know how to advertise..or make really bad business decisions...with our knowledge and skills being compromised and hidden every single day by overseas call centers and bogus marketing tactics, we are in the losing position as long as we enable their game...It really is a catch 22 for many...

Not enough money, but knowledge at least gives you a bit of an upperhand in that you can hold onto some of your money with hopes of growing enough to hang on and learn, learn, learn, if you hold on long enough you might just have enough money to put it all together and make something of your business....making sound decisions, spending sound amounts of money on the right things and hiring correctly for your weaknesses when the time is right...I am pretty sure that col. Sanders did this....he started cooking achicken a day and just worked tirelessly on figuring out how to grow and where to locate and what to spend on and just by luck made more good decisions than bad and became what it is today eventually, his business was struggling and he pulled it up and out of the dumps because he had to do or die....he could have died with one bad decision and there would only be popeye's today....

 

[Doug Munro]

I think the principle told my parents the same thing when I was in first grade back in 1961....

Here's a quick attention getter: We no longer wire orders, as the system as it operates today removes up to 32% of YOUR MONEY before it gets to the delivering florist.

That statement is not only true, it does generate comments. And the best part is when two customer talk about it...

I doubt that there is ONE florist here that would gladly pay 32% more to their wholesaler, or 32% more to their vehicle provider, or 32% more to their grocer, or... but there are MANY here who feel the CONsumer should pay them 32% more than the value they receive!! The argument that your service is worth it is not valid.

Can you explain to me why you feel it's OK for the CONsumer to get ripped off, but not yourself???

Yowser, great rant. Obviously we don't want to confuse the issue with the facts.

Did we somehow forget the concept of "fill to value". if so here is a quick explanation, when you receive a wire order for $60.00 ( including delivery) you provide the recipient with $ 60.00 of retail value (including delivery). What you don't do is deduct things like the sender commission (20%), wire service commission (7%), and what ever else you feel it may cost you. Shops that do this are in fact part of the problem just as much as order gatherers who "skim" up front!

Lets look at it this way, in the wire service concept, someone else (the sending retailer) is acting as the retailer (doing the marketing and absorbing the cost of acquiring the order) , the filling shop is in fact acting as a "wholesaler" to the retailer. In a simplistic view it is in fact no different than the relationship that exists between a florist and their wholesaler. BTW, I do realize that in some cases your wire service is actually competing with you, however as a former wholesaler I also know the same applies at that level in some cases aw well.

 

[theRKF]

Flag on the play! I call foul on this one

Most florists have the resources, and access to the knowledge. It's a choice. If you can't afford $100 / mo for a web site, and a small annual fund for professional development, then what you have is an underfunded business, not an OG issue. It's not the OG's fault that your business (the general "you") is that tight now (or that too many new shops are under capitalized from day 1).

I received this note privately:

True.... but can playing catch up really work?

The answer: HELL-to-the-YA we can! In case it's been overlooked, that's what we at Strider are doing, with FlowerChat, Florist 2.0, the Florist SEO blog, etc. In our most recently published study on directory rankings we noted how all the directories except one have dropped. What's filling that void? Local business sites!

Google is putting a heavy emphasis on localized businesses right now, and the national players are feeling it.

 

[BOSS]

Anything I can do to keep the debate going... LOL... nothing personal...

I still do not see the value to the consumer. Of course I did when I was sending 10,000 orders a year, but not so much these days... ah there's the rub.... now I remember.

 

[theRKF]

Ryan Partially true....most small shops are underfunded from the very beginning...mine being one of them. One person with a dream not much money and some drive is what many flower shops are made of, not the best for getting a biz off the ground but happens every day...

Not partially true, completely true. Yes, it happens everyday that people start businesses without the proper funding and education, but that doesn't put the blame on their competitors when those businesses fail, or are paralyzed by lack of resources. It's not the OG's fault that a florist doesn't have marketing skills, and doesn't try to acquire those skills.

That being said, not enough knowledge but enough money can be a recipe for disaster also...

Yes - but that's not really what we're talking about, so we'll save the philosophy for another conversation.

Fact of the matter is that not everyone grows up with the entrepenurial gene, not everyone will know how to do everything in business well....

No one person have everything they need to be in business. Small business owners need to acquire knowledge and skills, not complain that it isn't fair because other competitors have those resources. That's how business works.

but without us little shops that know what we know best...FLOWERS, these OGs CANNOT exist...

Another flag on the play! He who controls the orders, wins. I always smile when I hear this argument, picturing a group of OG's sitting around a conference table in a dimly lit room (you know one of them has to be smoking, right? ), and collectively deciding to pull up stakes because the florists have decided to not play ball any more. "Dang it, I have $4 mil in orders, but no florists will help me. Oh well, I guess I'll go sell Acai Berry diets now." Or, maybe these sharp business guys will find / create alternate delivery channels ... like, contracting with local wholesalers, co-owning fulfillment centres, drop-ship, etc.

"But we own the same day service!" I hear the florists cheering! "Nay," says I, "There are already drop-shippers offering same-day service to major cities. Our last little niche is falling by the wayside."

It really is a catch 22 for many...

It really isn't. Learn -> Evolve -> Grow ... or don't.

Not enough money, but knowledge at least gives you a bit of an upperhand in that you can hold onto some of your money with hopes of growing enough to hang on and learn, learn, learn, if you hold on long enough

How long is long enough in the new economy? (Note: Not "the recession", because recessions pass ... this is a new economic reality that will outlive many of us )

 

[lori042499]

Doug...This is where I have a huge problem with florist thinking on this whole issue...So many florists take orders for wire out and take a service charge and think it is a great service and it is...but then turn around and when they get some sort of complaint on the order that they filled, immediately complain that it wasn't their fault because the order sisn't have enough money or there wasn't enough delivery, or TF, FTD takes too much money out or they say that the sending company kept 32% of the customers money....that is hogwash in my opinion, because #1 it is the fillers responsibility to screen all orders and reject if not fillable at the money receieved or ask for more money or #2 the charges that WS charges shouldn't have anything to do with that particualr order... and #3 the only money that the consumer maybe hasn't taken into consideration is the service fee and tax that the sender took, so between 5-15 bucks on average..

I sell this as a service of my company, in order to have a wire service and full service florist capabilities for now I need to sell this service and need to get paid for it...I do not feel that I can condemn another business for doing what I do and have felt this way from day one about OGs...for those that choose to not be a part of the ws equation at all, I can understand their stance, because in todays world there isn't a real compelling need for the service, consumers can just hop on the net and pick a florist...but I like to let my customer know I can do it better because I keep up on the who's who in the floral world, it is dizzying to the consumer with some areas having 100 florists to choose from real and not real, they could get a florist not close to where they think they are sending with all intetions of using a local, so I capitalize on that fact...it is how I sell my service...there is nothing wrong with it, I am not evil, but I am also not willing to just give the info to my customers because I still need to grow, 3rd and 4th generation florists have a bit more trust in the loyalty of their customers to give them that info, that in itself is a service to longstanding customers and the comfort of them saying, "Oh I would really rather you take care of it for me." or not is substantial...I will give a customer the info if I think what they want is going to be difficult to relay, difficult to access or difficult to create on a short budget...no one will win in that situation so I forward on 3-4 names of florists and let them deal with it if they want to...

 

[lori042499]

Not partially true, completely true. Yes, it happens everyday that people start businesses without the proper funding and education, but that doesn't put the blame on their competitors when those businesses fail, or are paralyzed by lack of resources. It's not the OG's fault that a florist doesn't have marketing skills, and doesn't try to acquire those skills.




Yes - but that's not really what we're talking about, so we'll save the philosophy for another conversation.



No one person have everything they need to be in business. Small business owners need to acquire knowledge and skills, not complain that it isn't fair because other competitors have those resources. That's how business works.



Another flag on the play! He who controls the orders, wins. I always smile when I hear this argument, picturing a group of OG's sitting around a conference table in a dimly lit room (you know one of them has to be smoking, right? ), and collectively deciding to pull up stakes because the florists have decided to not play ball any more. "Dang it, I have $4 mil in orders, but no florists will help me. Oh well, I guess I'll go sell Acai Berry diets now." Or, maybe these sharp business guys will find / create alternate delivery channels ... like, contracting with local wholesalers, co-owning fulfillment centres, drop-ship, etc.

"But we own the same day service!" I hear the florists cheering! "Nay," says I, "There are already drop-shippers offering same-day service to major cities. Our last little niche is falling by the wayside."



It really isn't. Learn -> Evolve -> Grow ... or don't.



How long is long enough in the new economy? (Note: Not "the recession", because recessions pass ... this is a new economic reality that will outlive many of us )

Ryan,

Not for nothing, but you say this as if many are not learning as they complain...I myself may complain about a whole lot of things, but just this month have attended 3 marketing seminars and taken 2 online classes to learn and build on my shortcomings...but alas still, I can complain because I still cannot bring myslef to offer silly things like free delivery and mark up my stuff by 10 bucks to cover it or do the other very deceitful crap that will translate into dollars because I have too much concious to do it...I am learning and discovering that I really know more than I think I do...and just don't give myself credit, but I have too much heart to act upon a whole lot of it...believe me I feel bad when I tell someone, who walks in my door and wants me to give them a number of a florist in nevada, I am sorry I can take your order and send it for you, but I get paid to do that, it makes me feel like a heal, but it is part of my business for now...and atleast I tell them, maybe I shouldn't maybe I should just start taking their order and leave them in the dark about what they are paying for then I win...I don't know all the answers, all I know is that it is way more confusing and didfficult than it need sto be for us and consumers, people in general shouldn't have to be leary of all purchases and how they are getting screwed and that is how our society is progressing period in all markets not just ours...it amazes me just how much every salesman is willing to capitalize on another person's lack of knowledge on a subject just to make a few more dollas, it happens everyday, in every market, in every industry...and people flock to them without ever realizing the difference or realize it and give up trying to understand and purchase anyway...

 

[theRKF]

Ryan,

Not for nothing, but you say this as if many are not learning as they complain...I myself ...

Many are not. You, however, are

 

[lori042499]

OK...as long as you realize that there are many who are complaining but learning...

The situation is harrowing sometimes...there are times that my head is so full of info that I don't know what to do with and not enough money to actually come up with a plan that will work properly that at times I feel like giving up, so I do understand the position that many are in..I know that many of my attempts at marketing my business are meager compared to the national companies, but the fact that I try and am succeeding very very slowly makes me feel good, will it be enough to succeed in the end, that is my hope, but it is not certain and is frutrating as hell at times, when I have a vision in my head and know that if I had planned for x amount of money for this and that, I could have a quicker outcome or more complete.....that is when the complaining comes in...it is complete frustration for my lack of knowledge when setting out on this journey and realization that this is going to be harder than I imagined it would be and I am sure that is true for many growing businesses....sometimes we get ourselves in situations that we don't know how to handle and complaining jjust makes us feel good for the moment..

 

[concord]

I like to think of it as venting rather than complaining. Once I finish venting I usually feel better and ready to tackle the problem. I spend a lot less time worrying about wire services and OG's now that I'm not a member of TF, so for me that was the right decision, but it took considerable venting and hearing others vent to make that decesion, and it may not be right for everyone.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

True to a point.... but...

I still believe that the best option is 100% biz going both ways. From consumer to me, and from consumer to the delivering florist. Hmm.. I guess that's only one way after all.

Dad and I were talking about another subject last night, we were discussing the human condition. This has much more to do with the human race than flowers, and possibly nothing more. But as arrogant as we are as a people, ever wonder what caused the demise of the Roman Empire, or the Inca's, or any number of "supposedly" powerful groups? (it was not the weather)

In support of Mark's point of view, DON'T be surprised one day, if someone called "Mikey" calls YOUR shop, and puts a customer on the phone, for a direct sale...local customers are VERY "vocal" about this "service".....

 

[CHR]

Marks' post about the Blekko search engine inspired me to try some of the queries I use to see how much spam has worked its way into local results.

Florist in Los Angeles - 11th result.

11.

Teleflora's Flower Club, Home Page

tag | seo dup links cache source ip site similar chatter | spam
Your Teleflora Florist in Los Angeles, CA. Fall Grandeur, picture. Teleflora's Rosy Birthday Present, picture. Sunny Skies, picture. Offers flower and gift arrangements for your floral needs.
flowerclub.com

See "Your Teleflora Florist in Los Angeles"? in the snippet? It was placed as Alt text to the Teleflora logo in the upper left hand corner by an SEO.

Is Flower Club a Teleflora florist in Los Angeles? No.

Is the site trying to optimize to appear on a results page for a query from a consumer looking for a local LA flower shop? Yes.

Is this white hat SEO? Definitely not.

(I realize the posts in this thread are all about TF optimizations, but I haven't run across anything so blatant from the other WSs lately. Will post if I do.)

 

[bootcampguy]

....Fact of the matter is that not everyone grows up with the entrepenurial gene, not everyone will know how to do everything in business well....but without us little shops that know what we know best...FLOWERS, these OGs CANNOT exist...but because the do out pace us in marketing for what ever reasons the service the provide or don't provide does reflect on our industry to the detriment of how well we know what we sell, even if we don't market well, or know how to advertise..or make really bad business decisions.........................

I don't think any successful person will say it was the "gene". Some make better and faster decisions than others but ALL WILL SAY that it's what they've learned to do. Florists do not spend money on their business education (design yes) but the best desginer in the world has nothing to do if the phone "don't ring"..........Growing a successful flower shop is simply having 5 - 7 systems in place that are followed "daily" like brushing your teeth. Advertising costs alot of money and is very hard to track, marketing is really doesn't cost that much. 5 years ago I began to invest in my business education and it paid off "huge". You can spend yourself broke.........buying of doing the wrong things. First you have to know how, when and why people buy from you. Then the rest is like grocery shopping, you pick what you want and find a way to make it happen again, over and over. Secondly, you're right without us, NOTHING gets done, so that really puts us in the drivers seat. OG's and WS can be managed.......

The best thing I can say is "when the student is ready the teacher will appear". Someone or sonething will speak to you and a light will go off in your head, then hang on.............you'll have an implanted seed.