Need Help Want To Be Ftd Free!

[MANORVILLE]

My question to you would be what has "how you find "em" got to do with whether you or they should or shouldn't be entitled to ask for or expect the same discount that has been traditional on wire orders? You paid the wire service for that directory. The filling florist got nothing out of it. So . . . if he or she has no real expectation of ever hearing from you again . . . and probably has never heard from you before . . . why should he or she be expected to give you a discount on your wire order any more than the guy who called you direct?

I don't know of any other business that extends a 20% "finder's fee" to a competitor or anyone else who is totally unknown and not likely to ever be heard from again. I find it interesting that members of an industry that struggles so hard for such meager profits (as a rule) is so ready and willing to give up their hard earned profits to competitors and others who offer them nothing to add to their bottom line.

" 20 % Finder's Fee " I like that !

If I collected a 20% finder's fee on everything I've ever done for someone in business I certainly would not be here.
I'd be sipping silly little drinks on a remote island somewhere and I'd invite all of you along.

 

[Kristine]

I am doing that shop the favor to fill their order..

I hope you are saying this to the florists who are asking for 20%. I send mine at 100% and it should be treated just like any other customer who calls you for flowers......

 

[bluebonnet]

Quote:

As for geographical pricing, I can see $100 per dozen on the roses less delivery at times and dependant on the rose quality.
Everyday roses, no way ! Long stem premiums with exceptional longevity like what I buy, go for 75.00 to 125.00 every day without complaint.
Maybe a grunt or two but after the recipient receives our product they tend to become frequent orderers and referrers.
Quality costs as we all know.

I only buy premium roses and yes my prices are determined by the geographical area I am located in.

[/B]



Had this florist called us, we would've gladly accepted their order for boxed roses at $55.00 plus our $10.00 $ervice charge for delivery, less their EARNED 20% COMMISSION.

Wholesale Rose prices are back to normal now and so are our consumer prices on our Long Stemmed Freedom Roses.

To ask a fellow florist for $100.00 (Feb 20th) is, in my opinion, price gouging and mercenary,

That's crazy!!!! $35 less then my standard price for premium roses? you have got to be kidding........b/c it was a non WS florist paying with a CC?
As you say, had you gotten the call for your area to be delivered you would of accepted it, me ? I don't think so!

The 1 thing I never do is price gouge! That is why I have the same price of $85 /doz everyday of the year. Mercenary? I don't think so, Not with the cost of living in my area I chose to live and do business in!

 

[TOTO]

That's the rub Cyndi

The 1 thing I never do is price gouge! That is why I have the same price of $85 /doz everyday of the year. Mercenary? I don't think so, Not with the cost of living in my area I chose to live and do business in!

Our area (Westchester County in NYS) has both the HIGHEST PROPERTY TAXES, the highest HIDDEN TAXES as well as the HIGHEST COST OF LIVING in the Nation.

Our everyday price for Premium Long Stemmed Roses Cello Wrapped is $50.00, Boxed is $55.00, and Arranged in a Vase is $65.00. The Option is Baby's Breath at an additional $10.00 for each of those selections plus our $ervice charge for delivery which starts at $10.00 and goes up from there.

Our prices for VALENTINE'S WEEK are only raised by $10.00 per dozen which allows us to pass our increased wholesale costs along to our customers and without the media having to suggest that, WE ARE GOUGING DA PUBLIC!

Regardless, it seems to be just fine that, you and Joe are happy to fill orders via a WS at their discount of 27% plus another 2% FTO for a total discount of 29% and wait the 30 to 45 days for either your money or your reconciliation.

While on the other hand, you refuse F2F orders at 80% NET CASH TO YOU and in your bank accounts within 48 hours.

Must BEE MEE then, since I can't for the LIFE OF MEE, seem to find any cents in your mathematical equations or quality of order comparisons.

Suffice it to say that, I have much more respect for all of my fellow REAL FLORISTS who are capable of DOO-ING MY DOO than for any of the WSs who sleep with DA SKIMMERS, OGs and NON LOCAL PHONIES, all enemies of mine.

Then again, what do I know anyway, after having done DA DOO for the past 39 years, 37 of which are, as an owner.

My deal is simple: Our customers with their 100% sales come first. Next is our F2F Real Florist orders, and last, if at all, are the HQ or DOT.CON orders which, for the most part, are DOA anyway due to a TOO LOW SRPs, recipes which are outrageous and ridiculous, and too many caveats and drains on our delivery resources when they have no intention of paying for any of them.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Our area (Westchester County in NYS) has both the HIGHEST PROPERTY TAXES, the highest HIDDEN TAXES as well as the HIGHEST COST OF LIVING in the Nation.

Our everyday price for Premium Long Stemmed Roses Cello Wrapped is $50.00, Boxed is $55.00, and Arranged in a Vase is $65.00. The Option is Baby's Breath at an additional $10.00 for each of those selections plus our $ervice charge for delivery which starts at $10.00 and goes up from there.

Our prices for VALENTINE'S WEEK are only raised by $10.00 per dozen which allows us to pass our increased wholesale costs along to our customers and without the media having to suggest that, WE ARE GOUGING DA PUBLIC!

Regardless, it seems to just fine that you and Joe are happy to fill orders via a WS at their discount of 27% plus another 2% FTO for a total discount of 29% and wait the 30 to 45 days for either your money or your reconciliation.

While on the other hand, you refuse F2F orders at net 80% CASH in your bank accounts within 48 hours.

Must BEE MEE then, since I can't for the LIFE OF MEE, seem to find any cents in your mathematical equations or quality of order comparisons.

Suffice it to say that, I have much more respect for all of my fellow REAL FLORISTS who are capable of DOO-ING MY DOO than for any of the WSs who sleep with DA SKIMMERS, OGs and NON LOCAL PHONY enemies of mine.

Then again, what do I know anyway, after having done DA DOO for the past 39 years, 37 of which are, as an owner.

My deal is simple: Our customers with their 100% sales come first. Next is our F2F Real Florist orders, and last, if at all, are the HQ or DOT.CON orders, which for the most part, are DOA anyway due to a TOO LOW SRP, recipes which are outrageous and ridiculous, and too many caveats and drains on our delivery resources when they have no ability to pay for them.

Toto

I am not trying to defend Cyndi's pricing strategy. She has hers and I have mine.

but......

what is 63 pct of $100?

Joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

Regardless, it seems to just fine that, you and Joe are happy to fill orders via a WS at their discount of 27% plus another 2% FTO for a total discount of 29% and wait the 30 to 45 days for either your money or your reconciliation.

While on the other hand, you refuse F2F orders at 80% NET CASH TO YOU and in your bank accounts within 48 hours.

YOu missed a point.... toto

Yes, I have to wait for the clearing house to Credit my account AND Debit my account.

During the month of me receiving AND sending, I have collected money from my customers for their outgoing business..

That money is in my bank account, not FTD's or TF's

So, your argument is flawed.

I send and receive aproximately the same dollar amount. So, the difference is in the WS clearing fee, which isn't all that significant.

Joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

To continue TOTO


You haven't addressed my maine concern. I am happy accepting direct Florist to florist business, but I do not send that way.

Why should I give a WS-Free, aka sending only florist for all practical purposes, a discount to enhance their net profit.

Why can't you charge your customer a fee for the service your provided?

JOe

 

[TOTO]

Zero Joe!

what is 63 pct of $100?
Joe

The answer to your question is ZERO JOE since Cyndi never got the $100 she was asking for from a fellow florist.

On the other hand, Cyndi might've gotten that $100 from DOT.CON and happily filled it from them, thus netting her $71.00 (on the surface) less her cost of delivery.

Most of us have already figured out that, A FILLER FLORIST can figure on another (10%) discount on top of the on the surface 71% net to florist, which is a net net to filler of 61%.

However, ya really have to put all of your annual costs associated with being a member of that WS into dollars and then into percentages as compared to the REAL COSTS TO YOU for running after all of those INCOMING ORDERS.

For the sake of ease, let's say your annual membership costs are $5,000.00 per year. Then, let's say that, they send you $50,000.00 a year in incoming wire orders.

The added discount costs to you are (10%) on the incoming which then gets added to their 27% order discount and their average reverse the order transmission charges of 2%.

And VIOLA, the final discount is 39% per order thus giving DA FILLER a true net net amount of 61% which is closer to your 63%.

The usual argument (one which I do not buy into) is; LET'S PUT IT ALL INTO ONE POT, stir it up, and wind up with the old cost averaging (shifting) to reach your net profit picture.

After all, filling all those highly discounted incoming orders (for naught) allows us to buy product cheaper, turn over our inventory, keep our help busy, and besides, OUR DRIVER WAS GOING PASSED THERE ANYWAY!

That has been the WSs mantra for as long as I can remember and they have sold us into this lie over and over again.

I have yet to post Herb Mitchell's wonderful article entitled:
" THE DANGERS OF FILLING ORDERS AT A DISCOUNT " with a special attention grabber on his one paragraph he calls, " THE SANTA CLAUSE MYTH! "

That's the one in which, DA WSs told us that, it's OK to break even or even loose money while filling incoming orders since, ONE DAY (in your far away future), that recipient will become YOUR 100% SALE CUSTOMER! "

And, on that magical day, SANTA CLAUS will have come to your own hometown filler florist. "]

 

[Joe Mioux]

The answer to your question is ZERO JOE since Cyndi never got the $100 she was asking for from a fellow florist.

On the other hand, Cyndi might've gotten that $100 from DOT.CON and happily filled it from them, thus netting her $71.00 (on the surface) less her cost of delivery.

]

Let me speculate and make it clearer.

Suppose for example, a florist fills alot of incoming WS orders. Wouldn't it be a good idea and prudent to cover all of the costs associated with the WS order?

BTW.

and you didn't respond to my question regarding me having money in my bank account from my outgoing orders.

Joe

 

[MANORVILLE]

Prices, Taxes & Merc's TOTO

Our area (Westchester County in NYS) has both the HIGHEST PROPERTY TAXES, the highest HIDDEN TAXES as well as the HIGHEST COST OF LIVING in the Nation.

Our everyday price for Premium Long Stemmed Roses Cello Wrapped is $50.00, Boxed is $55.00, and Arranged in a Vase is $65.00. The Option is Baby's Breath at an additional $10.00 for each of those selections plus our $ervice charge for delivery which starts at $10.00 and goes up from there.

Our prices for VALENTINE'S WEEK are only raised by $10.00 per dozen which allows us to pass our increased wholesale costs along to our customers and without the media having to suggest that, WE ARE GOUGING DA PUBLIC!

Regardless, it seems to just fine that, you and Joe are happy to fill orders via a WS at their discount of 27% plus another 2% FTO for a total discount of 29% and wait the 30 to 45 days for either your money or your reconciliation.

While on the other hand, you refuse F2F orders at 80% NET CASH TO YOU and in your bank accounts within 48 hours.

Must BEE MEE then, since I can't for the LIFE OF MEE, seem to find any cents in your mathematical equations or quality of order comparisons.

Suffice it to say that, I have much more respect for all of my fellow REAL FLORISTS who are capable of DOO-ING MY DOO than for any of the WSs who sleep with DA SKIMMERS, OGs and NON LOCAL PHONIES, all enemies of mine.

Then again, what do I know anyway, after having done DA DOO for the past 39 years, 37 of which are, as an owner.

My deal is simple: Our customers with their 100% sales come first. Next is our F2F Real Florist orders, and last, if at all, are the HQ or DOT.CON orders, which for the most part, are DOA anyway due to a TOO LOW SRPs, recipes which are outrageous and ridiculous, and too many caveats and drains on our delivery resources when they have no intention of paying for them.

Toto

Our customers will ring the phones off the hooks for our product and have no problem with our pricing. We don't rip anyone off and supply many scattered throughout the media and celebrity world.
We have several price points designed for the different people.
Our retirement communities want quality and longevity, without the high price.........we gave them what they asked for.
Our corporate clients want a mix between the best and second best........and we gave them what they asked for.
The high end clientel requires a bit more effort and we go the extra mile for them, sometimes creating the need for immediate shipping from Holland
etc. This costs us money as you know !
Our pricing reflects cost of product, labor, putting the key in the door and maybe, just maybe, being able to support our lifestyles which have consisted of nothing but work for years.
If we were to price our quality at 50.00, 55.00, 60.00 we'd be out of business in a very short time. Been there, done that !

* Now, would I, and do I, do a lot better for " Real Florists ", friends, good clients ? Of course I do, everyday, and the florists I've filled for usually wind up getting complimented. Many florists routinely send me the same orders throughout the year, every year ! Works for them, works for us !

* WS sucks, so I'm not even going there anymore !

* Westchester County Taxes are higher than Suffolk County ?
I may be misinformed ! If so I feel so much better knowing someone else
gets ripped off worse than we do.

* To close, the reference using the word mercenary throws me off.
A Real Florist trying to make a living is not a mercenary and if they/we are
then picking up my overhead, just to put the key in the door, should be a drop in the bucket for everyone, but it's not, and we own it !

Sempre Fi

 

[TOTO]

Back at you Joe!

To continue TOTO
You haven't addressed my maine concern. I am happy accepting direct Florist to florist business, but I do not send that way. Why should I give a WS-Free, aka sending only florist for all practical purposes, a discount to enhance their net profit.Why can't you charge your customer a fee for the service your provided? JOe

I have always said that, we will only DOO FLORIST DOO for OTHER REAL FLORISTS TOO!

Which excludes SENDING ONLY as well as ALL DA SKIMMERS!

We've always charged our customers a $ERVICE CHARGE for either LOCAL DELIVERY or OUT OF TOWN delivery. After all, someone has to pay for the PCs and printer paper and time and reconciliation and follow ups and stand behinds.

After all, we are providing a $ERVICE TO THEM!

And like a TRAVEL or ENTERTAINER'S AGENT, we expect to collect or pay a sales commission when the opportunity presents itself to BOOK THE GIG!

Having had SEVEN WIRE SERVICES back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, (FTD, TELEFLORA, FLORAFAX, AFS, FCN, CARIK, and REDBOOK), I too thought that, we were doo-ing business.

We were busy as a rooster in a hen house. Then came along the affordable small computer age with our HARD DRIVE OF 5K of MEMORY (which cost us $5K or $1 a bite) and back ups were done on 8" floppy disks and we thought WHO WE WERE!

Then came LOTUS and I gave each of them a spreadsheet, put all their costs to me in each cell, and at the end, I always wound up with that old (-)

That's when DA DAWN EARLY LIGHT smacked mee between my running lights. And so, I dumped em all,m save for the one which I was an owner of, back then.

Because, I found out that, the only way anyone made money in the WS GAME was by SENDING OUT ORDERS rather than FILLING THEM! At about that same time, the FIRST OG was born in the form of an 800 NUMBER, since he too had figured out the same reality as well. He promptly become JSUT ANOTHER MEMBER in GOOD STANDING and the rest became history, as they say.

Anyway, WSs are a liability now, not withstanding the fact that, THEY HAVE MORPHED INTO JUST ANOTHER FLORIST COMPETITOR at the same time.

As to THE FLOAT, money in our bank account is the keyword here rather than giving it over to a WS so they can collect the interest and plow that too back into marketing themselves.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Toto:

I want to go back to my original issue.

Why should any florist be asked to discount their product in order to enhance the profit of another florist on a F2F order?

Why don't you charge your customer the fee, which includes your costs and a reasonable profit?

Joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

That's the theory. And that's the way it was supposed to work. And for many, it did. But that was in the days before the order gatherers started competing against real florists for all of those outgoing orders. Now, for the majority of florists, the "balancing act" is nothing more than a cruel myth. It's such a well documented and well known myth that hardly anyone other than those with big sending operations who are depending on the wire service model for their very existence have the nerve to try to fool real florists with that malarky any more.


You can easily and quickly get pretty much the same info off of the ftd and teleflora on-line florist directories. Or you can use search engines or any number of other on-line directories. This is the computer and internet age, you know. It's not hard to find a florist in another town.

My question to you would be what has "how you find "em" got to do with whether you or they should or shouldn't be entitled to ask for or expect the same discount that has been traditional on wire orders? You paid the wire service for that directory. The filling florist got nothing out of it. So . . . if he or she has no real expectation of ever hearing from you again . . . and probably has never heard from you before . . . why should he or she be expected to give you a discount on your wire order any more than the guy who called you direct?

I don't know of any other business that extends a 20% "finder's fee" to a competitor or anyone else who is totally unknown and not likely to ever be heard from again. I find it interesting that members of an industry that struggles so hard for such meager profits (as a rule) is so ready and willing to give up their hard earned profits to competitors and others who offer them nothing to add to their bottom line.

your first graph.

I look at both income and outgo orders for sales.

Your second graph

There is no guarantee that a florist you find on an internet search engine is a qualified florist or one that is even physically located in that town. I could buy an internet sponsored add and pretend to have a physical location in YOUR town, could I not?

third graph

"You paid the wire service for that directory. The filling florist got nothing out of it."

Not true, that filling florist also sends via their WS membership.

your fourth graph is confusing to me... so i will not respond.

Joe

 

[Rosebud06]

You guys up north got richer folks than we do down here in Alabama .
I get calls all the time asking how much for a dozen roses. It doesn't help when fresh market advertises a dozen for $7.99. I try to convince folks you get what you pay for. Some care some don't.
It frustrates me so much when the grocery stores and all sell them for next to nothing just so they can get people in their store. Then people look at me and think that I should be able to get the flowers at the same price and sell for the same price.

 

[bluebonnet]

You guys up north got richer folks than we do down here in Alabama .
I get calls all the time asking how much for a dozen roses. It doesn't help when fresh market advertises a dozen for $7.99. I try to convince folks you get what you pay for. Some care some don't.
It frustrates me so much when the grocery stores and all sell them for next to nothing just so they can get people in their store. Then people look at me and think that I should be able to get the flowers at the same price and sell for the same price.

Rose,
I do have the same atmosphere with 3 major grocery chains on the other corners across from as well, their roses sell for $15.99 doz, mine for $85 and I have customers coming in & calling for them.
Shoot me a PM or start a post in the Marketing thread and I will help you market your flowers to wear they will come in to your shop and not the grocery stores. You have talent and services that they do not and can not offer!
Cyndi

 

[Connie]

Wow! Guys!

We are WS free, unless you count IFA as a wire service. We usually use them for all of our wire-outs, and we get a few incoming from them. We also phone out orders (using information from ilocalflorist and locateaflowershop). We also kept our old TF and FTD books, but don't really use them very often.

We do offer the 80-20 split, but if we're offered the 100%, we take it. We ask for the 80-20 split also, but if we're refused, we give the 100%. The important thing to us is getting the order filled properly.

Wire-ins are certainly not a major part of our business. We've not seen any decrease in business since we dropped the WS. Our bottom line is actually blacker than ever.

Call me an OG if you like. God knows I've been called worse. After all, I was a middle school teacher in a verrrrrry rough school for most of my former career.

To each his own. If you disagree with me, so be it. I'm not going to call you any bad names or think less of you because you are running your business in the way that you know is best for your business. And I don't think any less of you for doing business as you see best.

IMHO. My .02.

 

[briparke]

toto:

carol has stated and reinforced my point very well.

If you want to send orders out without the benefit of a WS network, fine, do it.

Charge your customer a fee, which should include your costs of business plus a reasonable profit for your business..


But, for God's sake don't ask some florist that you may not know or ever do business with ever again to give you a discount to enhance your bottom line of Net Profit.


Be upfront with your customer tell them this is what it will cost them to have you transfer their order.

Now, for your comment regarding Bluebonnet's rose prices, she has her overhead and you have yours. I believe in previous posts she commented that her delivery is $15.00 per delivery. That means her roses are $85.00 per dozen. That is her price and if she can get it fine. If her customers want to walk out and find another shop at a lesser price, then they can go and find a better price at one of her competitors.


Sincerely

Joe

We have been in business for 56 years and during that time have developed a number of orders that go to florists across the country year after year. We dropped both Teleflora & FTD recently because the fees are way too high. I don't ask for commissions, some florists give them, some do not. It isn't as simple of question as you make it out to be because I have helped some florists around the country quite sizably over the years. Whether they offer the discount or not they are making more money now and right away! I think that in itself is worth something to them!

 

[TOTO]

Who gets more weight and respect?

In the end, and in my UMBLE OPINION, the question I raise is simple.

Who gets more weight and respect from your florist.

Would it be the OTHER REAL FLORIST who, like you, is willing to stand on their feet for 8 to 10 hours each day and for six (sometimes 7) days each week, and for no less than 50 weeks each year? The same counterpart who has cuts on their fingers and black lines on their thumbs. And, like you, the same counterpart who has been undermined by the WSs as they are in direct competition with them for their own customers with their 100% sales. After which, those same WSs sleep with our enemies to include every SKIMMER and OG and NON LOCAL PHONY, who like them, operate a floral DOT.CON while sitting on their derrieres in some cubicle in some building in the US or CANADA or INDIA.

Or, would the WS get more weight and respect because, after all, THEY ARE YOUR BUSINESS PARTNER, right?

And, as we all know, a BUSINESS PARTNER always shares the gains as well as the pains, RIGHT?

OOPS! WHAT? They only share in YOUR GAINS, but NOT YOUR PAINS? In fact, all one has to do is to log onto YOUR PARTNER'S WEBSITE and see how many of YOUR PARTNER'S IMAGES are either DROP SHIPPED GIFTS or DROP SHIPPED FARM DIRECT FLOWERS, thus EXCLUDING YOU as often as possible because, they make more money in that process. Besides, your still a necessary evil to them (for now) and they still need your passive streams of revenue.

And if you are lucky, your partner might have one selection on their homepage just devoted to YOU, their PARTNER, which they call SAME-DAY-DELIVERY.

And only because they have to rather than want to, USE YOU when THEIR CUSTOMERS need your SAME-DAY-DELIVERY $ERVICE FEATURE. In fact, THEIR CUSTOMER used to be YOUR CUSTOMER, but then, your PARTNER offered your old customer a 15% discount through American Express or some other PARTNER. After which, your old customer was DUPED into using YOUR PARTNER'S WEBSITE, got caught up in their BAIT and SWITCH and just happened to notice their Fruit and Cheese box at $34.99 or their DROP SHIPPED MEDIUM ROSES at $39.99. Or, per chance, might even click on the SAME-DAY-DELIVERY feature, and HOLLY COW ANDY, your PARTNER selected YOU to fill your OLD CUSTOMER'S ORDER at a wapping 71 cents from their 100% SALE DOLLAR which of course, INCLUDED YOUR FREE DELIVERY $ERVICE FEATURE, right?

What's that, you say ANDY? You DO CHARGE YOUR CUSTOMERS FOR DELIVERY? But NOT YOUR PARTNER? Oh, I know! You deduct your delivery charge from your OLD CUSTOMER'S PARTNER'S TOTAL ORDER AMOUNT and get it back in WS WAMPUM. Then, and when your OLD CUSTOMER calls THEM to complain that, THEY DID NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, your partner tells you that, they are willing to pay you COGS for DOO-ING all that DOO, but they got a complaint from THEIR CUSTOMER which, OH THAT'S RIGHT, used to be yours.

Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but even I have managed to figure out, JUST WHO BEE MY FRIENDS and WHO BEE NOT!

Which is why, TOTO will always give more weight and have more respect for my fellow REAL FLORISTS who DOO DA DOO!

Besides, I have no intention of A WS TAIL wagging this DOG by COAT TAILING on all of my hard work and efforts.

In the olden days (pre 1984), one could even say that, the WSs worked for US WEE BEES. Those days are long gone now, and they only work for themselves and their bottom lines now, and they really don't care about how they get there.

So, be sure to SUPPORT YOUR PARTNERS by paying them all of their dues and fees every month. After all, they're helping you GROW YOUR BUSINESS, right?

 

[theRKF]

Rose,
I do have the same atmosphere with 3 major grocery chains on the other corners across from as well, their roses sell for $15.99 doz, mine for $85 and I have customers coming in & calling for them.
Shoot me a PM or start a post in the Marketing thread and I will help you market your flowers to wear they will come in to your shop and not the grocery stores. You have talent and services that they do not and can not offer!
Cyndi

Is that "have" or "had?" Or do you have 3 grocery chains across the street from your house? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you close your retail location months ago?

We've had plenty of basement bettys on FC, and they are welcome - but does your advice on combating grocery chains involve selling from your garage?

Just need to be clear on where this advice is coming from.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Rosebud06]

if you do out of state orders florist to florist no wire service........how do you pay them?