New/Old Scam -The 'benefit' of being in a wire service
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Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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we'll have word on this......
in the next couple of days from FTD HQ....
Will keep you posted......
in the next couple of days from FTD HQ....
Will keep you posted......
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Class-action lawyers won't take cases involving only small fish like Wesley Berry, because their fee is at minimum hundreds of thousands of dollars. At least that's what I was told. My conclusion, which my lawyer also agrees, is that I need to make a class-action case that involves a bigger fish.
Examples of "bigger fish": the companies that are knowingly allowing the deceptive tactics of dOGs for the detriment of consumers. Wire-service companies, telephone directory companies, Google/Yahoo/etc come to my mind.
My guess, however, is that it's not going to be an easy case to attract class-action lawyers who must win to earn money (because they have to work on contingency). For example, I don't remember anyone who has successfully sued Google for deceptive Adword ads they carry.
In any case, if we were to make a buzz about dOGs and their deceptive tactics, we better emphasize the fact that they are hurting consumers. Once we frame the issue as the one between "we the good buy" versus "they the bad guy", it would actually look like a fight between business competitors. It really is not. The victim is "consumers", not necessarily us - that's the way the case should be framed.
I sure thinks that WS is definitely a potential defendant in a class-action lawsuit, if they keep profitting from the abuse by dOGs. Absolutely. They know dOGs exist and have means to stop it. They haven't done.
He has some interesting linkage..
try this tool...
Touch Graph's Google Browser displays links between websites and visualizes the interrelated nature of these websites.
http://www.touchgraph.com/TGGoogleBrowser.html
just cut and paste his url
http://www.flowers-nationwide.com/
BIG HINT: you can also find out who is linking to your website, and who is linking to the websites that link to you (might be a good way to find link partners).
.
try this tool...
Touch Graph's Google Browser displays links between websites and visualizes the interrelated nature of these websites.
http://www.touchgraph.com/TGGoogleBrowser.html
just cut and paste his url
http://www.flowers-nationwide.com/
BIG HINT: you can also find out who is linking to your website, and who is linking to the websites that link to you (might be a good way to find link partners).
.
So am I...I had no trouble finding your page and listing.
try this link, it's still live...
http://www.flowers-nationwide.com/EXPRESSIONS_IN_BLOOM-28583-Corvallis.html
.
still up after opting out last week!
I'm still there in several towns as well after going thru and opting out. How did yours go away?
mlou, I'm not understanding why and what are we cut and pasting for. What is that suppose to do and how will it help us?
thanks,
cyndi
I'm still there in several towns as well after going thru and opting out. How did yours go away?
mlou, I'm not understanding why and what are we cut and pasting for. What is that suppose to do and how will it help us?
thanks,
cyndi
Mlou - That's one cool tool. Nice to visualize all the spammy links - especially Gotlinks.com Link Exchange Service and all the travel affiliates.
Cyndi - In mlou's post, click on the link to touchgraph.com and it will open in a new window. Copy and Paste Wesley's 'directory' URL there and click Graph It! A new window will open and you will be able to see the site's relationship to other sites. A slider bar on the top allows you to zoom in or out.
JB - You are still showing on the site for me, too.
Cyndi - In mlou's post, click on the link to touchgraph.com and it will open in a new window. Copy and Paste Wesley's 'directory' URL there and click Graph It! A new window will open and you will be able to see the site's relationship to other sites. A slider bar on the top allows you to zoom in or out.
JB - You are still showing on the site for me, too.
specialoccasion
New Member
specialoccasion
New Member
I tried to do this and got a runtime error and then it shut down my internet explorer. What am I doing wrong?
Not a lawyer, but...
At one time, I did talk to our lawyer about ads in the yellow pages and online.
Intent plays a huge role in situations like this. If I'm a blogger, and I write a post proclaiming FTD Sucks, FTD really can't do much. That's a first ammendment thing.
On our shop's website, if I add a chart showing how our prices are better than 800-Flowers', that is also acceptable "fair use".
While it looks like bait and switch to us, how different is WB's site from whitepages.com? It's packed with ads, and doesn't provide any more contact information than WB does. You'd have a tough argument to make if you tried to claim damages, because you'd have to prove that you were going to get these orders, but the customer was confused. At best, you could get your shop name removed with a cease and desist letter.
If WB had specific pages designed to look like your shop's website, and verbiage claiming they are you, you might have a claim.
To fight back, you can work on getting them de-listed from Google by filling out a spam report. Search for your town, find thier link, and fill out the form below:
http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html (bookmark this page!)
The reason I use is "doorway pages", which is what they are. Google hates sites like this that junk up their index with no value. They may not be removed immediately, but will eventually. If you're feeling spunky, do this for other sites full of doorway pages.
At one time, I did talk to our lawyer about ads in the yellow pages and online.
Intent plays a huge role in situations like this. If I'm a blogger, and I write a post proclaiming FTD Sucks, FTD really can't do much. That's a first ammendment thing.
On our shop's website, if I add a chart showing how our prices are better than 800-Flowers', that is also acceptable "fair use".
While it looks like bait and switch to us, how different is WB's site from whitepages.com? It's packed with ads, and doesn't provide any more contact information than WB does. You'd have a tough argument to make if you tried to claim damages, because you'd have to prove that you were going to get these orders, but the customer was confused. At best, you could get your shop name removed with a cease and desist letter.
If WB had specific pages designed to look like your shop's website, and verbiage claiming they are you, you might have a claim.
To fight back, you can work on getting them de-listed from Google by filling out a spam report. Search for your town, find thier link, and fill out the form below:
http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html (bookmark this page!)
The reason I use is "doorway pages", which is what they are. Google hates sites like this that junk up their index with no value. They may not be removed immediately, but will eventually. If you're feeling spunky, do this for other sites full of doorway pages.
same things happens
That's the same thing that happened to me , that is why I asked how to do it and it still does the same thing.
Cyndi
P.S. Mlou,
Can you explain what feeders are..... For instance, feedster.com and on some back pages of florists here in houston there are other florists on their back page, so does that hurt the one that is being fed off of?
That's the same thing that happened to me , that is why I asked how to do it and it still does the same thing.
Cyndi
P.S. Mlou,
Can you explain what feeders are..... For instance, feedster.com and on some back pages of florists here in houston there are other florists on their back page, so does that hurt the one that is being fed off of?
Sorry about the MSN Explorer problem...that's one of the reasons I don't use them. Try Opera or Firefox or even Netscape.
First, a web feed is a data format used for serving users frequently updated content. Content distributors syndicate a web feed, thereby allowing users to subscribe to it. Making a collection of web feeds accessible in one spot is known as aggregation.
Second, feeders are companies like Feedster.com
Third, Feedster, Inc., (RSS search engine) was one of the first RSS indexes of searchable feeds. The company helps surfers find RSS feeds, which includes blogs, traditional news services, e-commerce sites, and entertainment properties.
Additional simple explanation of RSS
http://cravingideas.blogs.com/backinskinnyjeans/2006/09/how_to_explain_.html
Hope this helps.
.
specialoccasion
New Member
Just recieved this email for Teleflora after sending them an to request they remove the storefront they have for us:
"Please remove the link for Special Occasion Flowers from your website. The storefront you advertise is not ours and we do not want our customers confused at this link being represented as our storefront.
If you have questions concerning this email, please feel free to contact me."
Email from Teleflora:
One down how many more to go????
"Please remove the link for Special Occasion Flowers from your website. The storefront you advertise is not ours and we do not want our customers confused at this link being represented as our storefront.
If you have questions concerning this email, please feel free to contact me."
Email from Teleflora:
Dear Pam,
The storefront for your shop has been removed from Find A Florist. The listing will update tonight and beginning tomorrow the storefront for your shop will not show up on Find A Florist.
Thank-you,
Teleflora
Thank-you,
Teleflora
One down how many more to go????
Well, A few days ago I spoke with an employee of Aurora Colorado's local newspaper, the Aurora Sentinel. She was kind enought to have a reporter call me back and this is what showed up on-line tonight and should be in the paper version tomorrow morning. It doesn't have as many details as I hoped but it's a good start. The reporter I spoke with also told me that channel 7 news in Denver picked up on the story and they will be contacting me to do a TV version of this story! I encourage everyone to call your local news paper and see what they can do. I am no longer a FTD member and if Teleflora sees this they will probably give me the boot, but that's OK with me. Here's the story! Thanks Mike Fehringer/AKA BUZZ
Bogus bouquet scams deliver sharp sting to floral shoppers
HTTP://www.aurorasentinel.com/main.asp?SectionID=13&subsectionID=13&articleID=14753
Web Posted 12/6/2006 1:17:00 PM
By Boyd Fletcher , [email protected]
Article :
Ray Fahey thought he ordered an expensive, $180 flower and candy arrangement for his wife from a reputable telephone flower delivery company.
But when the tiny vase and dime-store candy arrived at his Denver home as a way to say "I love you," Fahey knew something went wrong.
"Bottom line, this just was a scam," he said. "I paid 100 extra bucks for something that didn't get delivered."
Fahey thought he had been connected to 1-800-flowers through directory assistance on his cell phone, but what he had actually been connected to was one of many flower-businesses taking advantage of consumers, according to local flower store owners.
Local flower shops are getting a bad rap because customers aren't getting what they thought they paid for.
"Local florists are getting screwed by these people," said Lynne Hamilton who owns Aurora's oldest flower shop, the House of Flowers on East Colfax. "If you look in the phone book, there are full page ads with them."
According to the Federal Trade Commission, more and more flower shops nationwide are seeing an increase in customers who walk away feeling scammed and ripped off.
These companies set up websites, phone numbers and print ads that contain prices for bouquets, while advertising as a third-party for local flower shops.
Customers think they are ordering from a legitimate business that will contact the local flower shop for them, when in reality it is nothing more than a phone number and a web page.
For a fee or percentage, they pass it along to a legitimate third-party such as FTD.com or Teleflora.com who then charges a service fee out of the remaining funds - leaving the customer with much less than what they thought they were paying for.
"The consumers have no idea this is going on," said Mike Fehringer, owner of the Bloom'in Bee flower shop in Aurora.
Fehringer says he has seen the problem of "fake florists" more frequently, and has often had to deal with angry and confused customers.
Given that the U.S. florist industry employs more than 200,000 people and pumps more than $4 billion a year into the economy, the lure to skim money is great, industry experts say.
Fehringer said this is a scam that often works out because the person sending the flowers never sees the bouquet.
"And when you call someone and ask them how the flowers were, most people are going to be polite and say they were beautiful - even if they seem a bit cheesey," he said.
He said while Teleflora and FTD have regulations to protect consumers against fly-by-night flower outfits, they don't try hard to prevent it from happening.
"They allow fake florists to join their network," he said. "What they do is look the other way when people set up a scheme like this because (Teleflora.com and FTD.com) make so much money off of it."
Representatives from Teleflora and FTD did not return calls for this story.
Fehringer says it has come to the point where he is able to recognize the scammer orders and has begun refusing them.
Hamilton said she hasn't seen many scammer orders come through her shop, but she hears about it often as an industry problem.
She says the best way to assure you get your money's worth is to simply pick up the phone and find a local florist.
Fehringer reports problem websites to an industry watchdog, floristdetective.com, and urges customers to be smart about their orders and to check the website to make sure they are dealing with a reputable company.
He also has some advice for consumers. For example, if a customer suspects a service they are dealing with to not be legitimate, he said the first thing you can do is ask for a physical address or look for one on the website. If there isn't one, Fehringer says to move on.
But most importantly, he says customers should just take a few extra minutes and do some searching around.
"These days, with the Internet, there is no reason people can't search for a flower shop in whatever state or city they are in and find a real florist," he said.
Bogus bouquet scams deliver sharp sting to floral shoppers
HTTP://www.aurorasentinel.com/main.asp?SectionID=13&subsectionID=13&articleID=14753
Web Posted 12/6/2006 1:17:00 PM
By Boyd Fletcher , [email protected]
Article :
Ray Fahey thought he ordered an expensive, $180 flower and candy arrangement for his wife from a reputable telephone flower delivery company.
But when the tiny vase and dime-store candy arrived at his Denver home as a way to say "I love you," Fahey knew something went wrong.
"Bottom line, this just was a scam," he said. "I paid 100 extra bucks for something that didn't get delivered."
Fahey thought he had been connected to 1-800-flowers through directory assistance on his cell phone, but what he had actually been connected to was one of many flower-businesses taking advantage of consumers, according to local flower store owners.
Local flower shops are getting a bad rap because customers aren't getting what they thought they paid for.
"Local florists are getting screwed by these people," said Lynne Hamilton who owns Aurora's oldest flower shop, the House of Flowers on East Colfax. "If you look in the phone book, there are full page ads with them."
According to the Federal Trade Commission, more and more flower shops nationwide are seeing an increase in customers who walk away feeling scammed and ripped off.
These companies set up websites, phone numbers and print ads that contain prices for bouquets, while advertising as a third-party for local flower shops.
Customers think they are ordering from a legitimate business that will contact the local flower shop for them, when in reality it is nothing more than a phone number and a web page.
For a fee or percentage, they pass it along to a legitimate third-party such as FTD.com or Teleflora.com who then charges a service fee out of the remaining funds - leaving the customer with much less than what they thought they were paying for.
"The consumers have no idea this is going on," said Mike Fehringer, owner of the Bloom'in Bee flower shop in Aurora.
Fehringer says he has seen the problem of "fake florists" more frequently, and has often had to deal with angry and confused customers.
Given that the U.S. florist industry employs more than 200,000 people and pumps more than $4 billion a year into the economy, the lure to skim money is great, industry experts say.
Fehringer said this is a scam that often works out because the person sending the flowers never sees the bouquet.
"And when you call someone and ask them how the flowers were, most people are going to be polite and say they were beautiful - even if they seem a bit cheesey," he said.
He said while Teleflora and FTD have regulations to protect consumers against fly-by-night flower outfits, they don't try hard to prevent it from happening.
"They allow fake florists to join their network," he said. "What they do is look the other way when people set up a scheme like this because (Teleflora.com and FTD.com) make so much money off of it."
Representatives from Teleflora and FTD did not return calls for this story.
Fehringer says it has come to the point where he is able to recognize the scammer orders and has begun refusing them.
Hamilton said she hasn't seen many scammer orders come through her shop, but she hears about it often as an industry problem.
She says the best way to assure you get your money's worth is to simply pick up the phone and find a local florist.
Fehringer reports problem websites to an industry watchdog, floristdetective.com, and urges customers to be smart about their orders and to check the website to make sure they are dealing with a reputable company.
He also has some advice for consumers. For example, if a customer suspects a service they are dealing with to not be legitimate, he said the first thing you can do is ask for a physical address or look for one on the website. If there isn't one, Fehringer says to move on.
But most importantly, he says customers should just take a few extra minutes and do some searching around.
"These days, with the Internet, there is no reason people can't search for a flower shop in whatever state or city they are in and find a real florist," he said.
Oh, wow.
I think part of the reason the press is interested is that it's easy to find consumer victims - and flowers are one of the last places most people expect to be scammed.
As Goldfish said so well earlier in this thread, focusing stories on deceived consumers frames the issue in the most compelling fashion.
Buzz, do you know which company Mr. Fahey sent his order through?
I sense the heat is definitely on. This is the fourth or fifth phony flower shop story in the press in the last couple weeks.
I think part of the reason the press is interested is that it's easy to find consumer victims - and flowers are one of the last places most people expect to be scammed.
As Goldfish said so well earlier in this thread, focusing stories on deceived consumers frames the issue in the most compelling fashion.
Buzz, do you know which company Mr. Fahey sent his order through?
Not exactly but I do no it was a company posing as 1800 flowers. This was several months ago so I don't recall the details except that he called information and asked for "800flowers" and got a company posing as the real "1-800 flowers". He spend approximately $250 bucks. I don't recall the exact amount but I think the skimmer kept approximately $100. We recieved the order over the Dove system so had no idea what the original amount was, and by time it got to my shop it was reduced by about 50%. So as you can imagine, there's quite a difference between a $125 arrangement and a $250 arrangment. We then did some research and found out what happened. This customer had no idea that these types of scams were out there. Gosh I can't imagine Teleflora letting someone like this in their network... can you
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