Nothing biased about this board ........

[Doug Munro]

It's been a while since I have actually had the time to sign onto this board and read some of the posts or contribute anything. In doing so today something immediately caught my eye.

Back in July of this year I thought it would be a great idea to start a thread to list "Problem Order Fulfillers" much in the same train of thought as a number of threads that have been started and are running listing "Order Gatherers". The purpose was not to "blackball" any shop but just to provide a place for board users to post bad experiences they have had with particular shops.

In posting the thread I listed a number of rules, just common sense stuff, no slurs, no derogatory comments, etc. I also suggested that a shop shouldn't be listed because of one problem order, after all we all have off days. The purpose was to identify habitual repeat offenders.

I then requested that the thread be given a "Sticky" to ensure it stayed at the top just like the "Order Gatherer" thread.

The first day saw some posting on the thread, mostly from those that felt it was a bad idea, or had something to say in defense of problem fulfillers. One posting actually alluded that in many cases it was more a case of problem customers (recipient or sender?) rather than problem fulfillers.

The really interesting part of all of this is that the thread has been up for almost 4 months with a meager 14 posts so far and not a single problem fulfiller listed. On the other the "Order Gatherer" registry is alive and growing.

I have come to the conclusion that the lack of any "Problem Fulfiller" shops being listed must be due to one of two things

1) Our industry is in fact perfect at the retail level and that it must indeed be "problem" customers as it is certainly not the fault if any fulfilling flower shop as evidenced by the lack of names on my thread. If problem fulfillers actually existed someone would post them right? So I suspect that they may just be another an urban legend (probably one started by the order gatherers or wire services).

or

2) That as a group flower retailers are so focused on how unfair life is and how we are being undermined by other parties (order gatherers, wire services, etc) that we refuse to admit that we have problems in our own back yard. It's always so much easier to blame the other guy for the fact that the consumer has found alternatives.

So maybe I am wrong on both counts, if so maybe someone will straighten me out. On the other hand maybe they are just too busy listing "order gatherers" or crabbing about the big bad wire services.

 

[Palms]

It could be that people actually dont want to name or shame anyone or,,

If like me, you dont send a lot of orders out, you dont find yourself having much contact with the same shop over and over again. So in order to be in contact with lots of shops over and over again i would assume you would have to become an order gatherer. If you are an order gatherer, why would it be in your interest to name and shame shops publically (well to a focus group) on the internet.

Just another slant, it may not be as sinister as you think

 

[peggy70130]

Ditto to Palm's reply, also if there are more like me, they may not realize there was a thread, with a sticky, about problem order fulfillers. I have very little time to peek in here, and usually just click where it shows how many unread posts since my last visit. When checking in this way you don't see all the threads.

 

[Rhonda]

as with most wire outs, unless the recepient is there or gets a picture, or something devastating happens, I don't get feedback. I'm a small shop, small sender, and most of my orders are repeat orders so I know who I'm sending through.......

 

[pathelenflower]

ok I'm fairly new to this, how do you find threads that have "sticky things"?

 

[emilymoonflower]

or 3) If I have a problem with a particular shop and am not satisfied with their response to my complaint then I tend to not use them again. Yes. we've all had problems with one shop or another; I tend to vote with my feet and concentrate on sending business to those shops that treat me well.

 

[Doug Munro]

ok I'm fairly new to this, how do you find threads that have "sticky things"?

My understanding is a "sticky" keeps the thread at the top of the section. See the tread I refer to ate the top of Wire Services

 

[Doug Munro]

or 3) If I have a problem with a particular shop and am not satisfied with their response to my complaint then I tend to not use them again. Yes. we've all had problems with one shop or another; I tend to vote with my feet and concentrate on sending business to those shops that treat me well.

I did not list your "3" simply because what I am trying to convey is the incredible double standard that is evident most times on this board.

While many florists posting here will agree with you and state that they prefer option "3", they seem to have no problem posting the name of those that they determine are order gatherers. Many don't seem to "vote with my feet' on that issue.

In fact I note that we are listed as an "order gatherer" on some of the threads even though we have over 50 retail flower shop locations across Canada. Go figure?

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

I'm going to throw this back into your court.....
The problem in most cases starts with the selling business, be it a brick and mortar shop or an OG, and in the case of the latter most orders are sold via a web site that shows every item in the selection guide and they just assume that every florist in the country can produce any one of those arrangements with same day delivery if it's ordered by 2pm...........I don't think that there is a florist in Canada or the U.S. that could today produce every arrangement in the guide for todays delivery, unless they are next to a wholesaler and then odds are they don't carry every flower either.

We send out 75 plus orders a month (I know that's peanuts) and can't remember the last complaint we had about the filling florist......but we don't over promise and in most cases our orders are open (vase arr, basket arr, tribute, etc) maybe some colour specs but very seldom a specified selection guide # and if it is we always get a second choice.......Og's never seem to do that.

I know you're going to come back with that's what todays customer demands, and maybe that's true with the internet and all the high tech, but the reality is that if they were to order direct from the business that's going to put the flowers in the recipients warm hands they will be able to order something suitable and that's in stock that day (Satisfaction Guaranteed).

If it's sold right odds are it will be filled right!

 

[OB1]

Hey Doug.... on the surface, the idea seems like a good one, although if I have a problem with a shop, and it is not resolved to my satisfaction, I report them to teleflora, and simply do not use them ever again.
I must agree that I don't remember seeing this this thread before, and although I have been here for a while for now, I do not understand the sticky thing...I just read the "unread posts". Obviously I am missing something...
With regards to fullfillers that are not worthy...we keep a list of people to use, not a list of people to NOT use, ( unless they are the only people in the town) and seeing as most of our out of town orders are repeat orders, we continue to use the people that we know are doing a good job for our clients.
Having said that, a list of shops that consistantly disappoint may not be a bad idea. I guess the caveat would be "consistantly"

 

[Doug Munro]

I'm going to throw this back into your court.....
The problem in most cases starts with the selling business, be it a brick and mortar shop or an OG, and in the case of the latter most orders are sold via a web site that shows every item in the selection guide and they just assume that every florist in the country can produce any one of those arrangements with same day delivery if it's ordered by 2pm...........I don't think that there is a florist in Canada or the U.S. that could today produce every arrangement in the guide for todays delivery, unless they are next to a wholesaler and then odds are they don't carry every flower either.

We send out 75 plus orders a month (I know that's peanuts) and can't remember the last complaint we had about the filling florist......but we don't over promise and in most cases our orders are open (vase arr, basket arr, tribute, etc) maybe some colour specs but very seldom a specified selection guide # and if it is we always get a second choice.......Og's never seem to do that.

I know you're going to come back with that's what todays customer demands, and maybe that's true with the internet and all the high tech, but the reality is that if they were to order direct from the business that's going to put the flowers in the recipients warm hands they will be able to order something suitable and that's in stock that day (Satisfaction Guaranteed).

If it's sold right odds are it will be filled right!

I will agree that at times part of the problem may be that the customer has been oversold.

But (theres always a but) where does it say the fulfilling shop must accept an order even if they know full well they can not fill it to specs?

As a sender of orders I have had shops try to explain that even though the customer order pink roses the mixed daisy bouquet they sent was every bit as nice, and as they added extra product the customer had No reason to complain, in fact the customer "should" understand that shops did not alway have pink roses in stock.

True, the above may be an extreme case however my point is that if a shop can not fill an order as requested contact the sending shop or refuse the order.

 

[OB1]

If I understand this correctly, and please, do correct me if I am wrong... the whole point of this is ...when a florist accepts an order for something they cannot fill, according to the requirements, but fills it anyway, according to what they have available, even though it is not what the origonal customer requested.
If this is true, then in my opinion, it is a complete breach of trust.
I have no problem with someone telling me they cannot provide what I am asking for...then it becomes my responsibility to make a judgment call on behalf of my client, at which point I accept responsibility for what is being delivered. Either we will accept what they have to offer, or we will decide to look elsewhere, or on the rare occasion, to send nothing at all.
The issue here is to choose, on behalf of our clients, what, if anything, should be sent.
This is not a big deal.
Either we send what will satisfy our clients, or we dont.

How is this worthy of any debate???

The whole point of transferring an order to another city is to keep our customers happy and satisfied; it should have nothing to do with whether or not ABC Florist filled the order wrong. Either they did, and it's all good, or they didn't, and they were dishonest in saying they would. And then they will have to refund the money with apologies, or, worse face some sort of legal action.
Seems really simple to me. Or am I just being the small town girl once again?
Yikes. This growing up thing is going to kill me!!!!!!!!

 

[CHR]

The really interesting part of all of this is that the thread has been up for almost 4 months with a meager 14 posts so far and not a single problem fulfiller listed. On the other the "Order Gatherer" registry is alive and growing.

Doug -

You gotta lead by example, not by dictum. Where's your post(s) naming names of egrigious local florists who do bad jobs of filling incoming orders?

All I see is a list of rules with no examples. You haven't had any problems with outgoings since July?

BTW, we haven't had a single complaint on an outgoing order since you started the thread.

 

[lori042499]

I hardly ever have problems with outgoing orders and most of the time if I do have some sort of issue, there was either a technical error or it was an honest mistake and handled professionally, in which case i would never name names except to say that the shop made a mistake but were upstanding about it and corrected it satisfactorily....

I do call many a florist and not place the order with them because i don't like what I hear giving me answers to my questions...I head off the problem even before it begins in those cases...

 

[Joe Mioux]

Maybe the problems don't exist between florist to florist orders because those shops don't specify TF193-3, or FTD23-4058 (i just made up the numbers), but rather specify "fall vased arrangement for $50, or Funeral Arrangement for $35, etc.

Now, i think I will go back and play somewhere else.

joe

 

[Hal Conklin]

Source

Doug -

You gotta lead by example, not by dictum. Where's your post(s) naming names of egrigious local florists who do bad jobs of filling incoming orders?

All I see is a list of rules with no examples. You haven't had any problems with outgoings since July?

BTW, we haven't had a single complaint on an outgoing order since you started the thread.

I am sorry you must first look at the source.... Who wants to fill discounted orders that disparage the industry? Doug your inquiry makes me feel its about YOUR bottom line at the expense of the retail florist. Why do you think the avg florist micro manages every order. THEY HAVE TO. There are too many thieves out there. I will call it like I see as I have been there and seen that. First look in the mirror then post why do you think there is so much negativity ? Your company could possibly be an accessory to the problem. Why so much concern with your orders? Do you really think its a generic problem ? I don't think so... Your 50 stores doesnt make all retailers think your way of doing business is correct. "CONGRATS ON YOUR SUCCESS" however what you do is not always good for all. Soon the threat of your orders will not dictate who stays in business for the sake of fulfillment. Kinda like my Yankees paying 100 mil in lux tax...They do because they can. Maybe you should do same to offset the inaccuracies of the floral industry in Canada? Same goes for the big boy OG's here in the states. Maybe I have too much Yankeeism in me tonite after all its been 9 years.

 

[BOSS]

BTW, we haven't had a single complaint on an outgoing order since you started the thread.

Me either.... heck I can't remember 2 in the last 12 months... but then again we send 99% of our outgoings as "Fresh Fall Design" or "Designers Choice for Occasion"...

Oh and we've been giving out phone numbers mostly, since July and have heard nothing but good back from consumers.

 

[Connie]

Doug, I feel your pain in that you see a solution to what you see as a problem, and you're not getting any help.

Quite frankly, I only remember 2 complaints in the last year or two. For one, the shop has gone out of business. For the other, my customer asked me never to use that florist again, and we have honored his request. He is the only person who has ever ordered anything from that small town via our shop. As I think about that, that shop may have gone out of business too because I don't remember seeing it listed when the customer sent something else.

We usually send orders for plants or a very generic description. Occasionally we'll describe an arrangement that the customer saw in our cooler and request that the filling shop fill as close to that description as possible, e. g., "Our customer liked our vase (size used for dozen roses) of white lilies and white snapdragons with pink accent flower."

I hope that I've made myself clear and have not added to your frustration.

 

[RWK]

Now, time for me to chime in on this. As I understand the 'RULES' of WS......whether the filling shop does this or not is moot at this point......anyway......IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE REQUESTED PRODUCT IN STOCK, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO SUBSITUTE WITH SIMILAR SHAPE FLOWERS........ or you can contact the sending shop wither by phone or via electronic comunication and tell them you do not have the requested product and ASK for permission to substitute.

 

[Bigted]

Doug, there's a lot of good answers here to your questions. However, if we backup a little, I think the answer is pretty simple.

Sending problems usually involve OGs or wire services and typically are SYSTEMIC--meaning that if somebody is skimming or not sending enough money, that shop probably does it all the time.

Filling problems, on the other hand, tend to be order specific--the filling shop didn't have tulips so they used carnations, or whatever. Most shops do not send enough orders to the same fillers to know if there is a recurring problem.

I don't think it's a conspiracy. It's just easier to identify sender problems.