Nothing biased about this board ........

[ivygreen]

I wouldn't post in your thread unless I have a terrible, horrible experience I could not resolve and truly believed was pervasive, and thereby affecting a number of shops and not just myself.

I personally don't believe in outing a shop I may have only used once or twice in a year. I am not sure that my snapshot view of that shop actually reflects the true picture of that business and their standard practices.

I usually post on these type of things where I feel I can make a positive impact. I would rather strongly recommend one shop than bash two or three.

 

[pathelenflower]

Ok, now I have been reading all these posts in this thread, and most of you are suggesting a thread with a list of recommended shops, instead of problem shops. Like I said earlier I am new to this and not very computer savey (not good at spelling either). So why doesn't someone that knows how to get this list started just do it, and put a sticky thing on it! I have had several shops that I have used that went above and beyond to help with an order and would like to refer them to others.

 

[emilymoonflower]

Well said!

 

[LOTAKIDS]

I agree with Ivy... It is more contructive to be positive and have a list of wonderful shops to deal with..

This world is way to focused on the negative. I thought that by having this business I was to bring joy into people lives whether they be colleagues or clients.

I prefer if I have a problem with a shop on a wire out (of which I do not have many) not to deal with them again, and make note of it.

Thanks Doug for your imput, but ....

 

[makescents]

I have not read any other responses.. But in response to your thread Doug - Just to be BLUNT and some may say arrogant...

My work far exceeds a lot of other shops.. I get complaints from customer all the time on wire outs - "It didn't look like what you normally do!"

WELL duh! I didn't do it - I am not going to say that another shop is bad for not being "as good as me" They might be a really GREAT shop... It's just their stuff is not mine... and I have REALLY spoiled my customers - So even if I get complaints I don't feel right saying anything about a shop when maybe it is NOT about how BAD they are but about how GOOD I am...

Honestly, I have customers BEG me to do work that I would normally wire out... They say - I will pay whatever it costs... Some even resort to delivering themselves..

So.. is that a good anwser?

 

[Doug Munro]

Doug -

You gotta lead by example, not by dictum. Where's your post(s) naming names of egrigious local florists who do bad jobs of filling incoming orders?

All I see is a list of rules with no examples. You haven't had any problems with outgoings since July?

BTW, we haven't had a single complaint on an outgoing order since you started the thread.

I purposely did not start the thread by listing names, as I did want anyone to think it was simply a case my being out to get anyone.

Frankly we have a long list of fulfillers I would not send an order to even if they were the only shop available, I would sooner turn the order down.

 

[Doug Munro]

Seems this thread has hit a sore spot

In reading this I note a substantial amount of hesitancy to "out" shops. The reasons appear to be that it simply is not fair based on a "snapshot" view of a couple of orders a year, and that any shop can have a bad day or difficult customer.

I guess I should commend all of you for your high moral standards when it comes to judging another business.

But before I do that I have to wonder why the same high moral standards do not seem to apply to those that are listed on this board as order gatherers or to the wire services. They are constantly singled out as immoral and the root cause of the demise of this industry. Yet there seems to be little if any concern about the substandard work put out by poor fulfillers when in fact they do as much damage by delivering poor product as the sender does by overselling or skimming.

The key to making our industry grow and prosper does not lie in singling out one group while ignoring others, it lays in providing the consumer with good value at all levels.

I still believe that the title of this thread says it all, but feel free to prove me wrong

 

[Joe Mioux]

your analysis of its members is a bunch of nonsense and your question is irrelevant.

between Ca and the U.S. there are probably 25000 or more florists. On FC there is about 4000 members of which maybe 40 or so are active posters.

The probability of me or any other FC member sending to another FC is extremely low.

In other words, your sampling is irrelevant.

 

[lori042499]

In reading this I note a substantial amount of hesitancy to "out" shops. The reasons appear to be that it simply is not fair based on a "snapshot" view of a couple of orders a year, and that any shop can have a bad day or difficult customer.

I guess I should commend all of you for your high moral standards when it comes to judging another business.

But before I do that I have to wonder why the same high moral standards do not seem to apply to those that are listed on this board as order gatherers or to the wire services. They are constantly singled out as immoral and the root cause of the demise of this industry. Yet there seems to be little if any concern about the substandard work put out by poor fulfillers when in fact they do as much damage by delivering poor product as the sender does by overselling or skimming.

The key to making our industry grow and prosper does not lie in singling out one group while ignoring others, it lays in providing the consumer with good value at all levels.

I still believe that the title of this thread says it all, but feel free to prove me wrong

Not everyone feels that way....I have afew that I will not under any circumstance fill for...then I have some that if the arrangement is not undervalued I will fill for....my stance is I got into the WS game knowing they allow sending only and I play the game with those that play fair...When I see that priority delivery on their website is 6.99 but it wasn't forwarded to me the priority delivering florist, they go on the naughty list no flowers for you....they play by fair rules and I can make my 2 pence I will fill....not helping the whole of the industry, but until I am out of the WS game it is the way I need to play in my shop, my rules, my ways...me me me.....

Not all OG's are created equal just like not all filling florists are created equal...

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Sorry Doug, but me thinks you are just cheerleading for your Order Gathering like conditon. By the way congrats on your many locations.

I find the only problems I have with incoming orders, are the ones coming from OG types. Just today I refused a FSN order that I believe was skimmed. I gave them the opportunity to increase the total to pay for my 24 mile trip to fill an order I would get about 25 dollars to do. It's too bad that FSN does not allow me to see the name of the sending florist, as they would have gone on my personal list of skimming shops.
I also have a list of shops that are lovely to do business with.

Please note I am NOT saying FSN is an OG., it was simply an example of a sending florist perhaps skimming, therefore making the filling process virtually impossible.

Your idea of "outing" shops is a bad one for many reasons.

 

[Doug Munro]

Sorry Doug, but me thinks you are just cheerleading for your Order Gathering like conditon. By the way congrats on your many locations.

I find the only problems I have with incoming orders, are the ones coming from OG types. Just today I refused a FSN order that I believe was skimmed. I gave them the opportunity to increase the total to pay for my 24 mile trip to fill an order I would get about 25 dollars to do. It's too bad that FSN does not allow me to see the name of the sending florist, as they would have gone on my personal list of skimming shops.
I also have a list of shops that are lovely to do business with.

Please note I am NOT saying FSN is an OG., it was simply an example of a sending florist perhaps skimming, therefore making the filling process virtually impossible.

Your idea of "outing" shops is a bad one for many reasons.

My "Order Gathering Like Condition", well the good news we have just added a new phrase to this board (although it does sound like a medical problem).

Maybe we should start a thread listing "Order Gathering Like Condition" shops.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of successful florists are in fact suffering from an "Order Gathering Like Condition" and it shows its symptoms any time they take an order for out of town delivery by phone or on the internet.

I probably just work a little harder at it as I have 50 or stores to fill orders with.

I certainly will never make apologies for generating business for our stores.

The interesting thing about this whole thread and train of thought is that most posts on it work hard to justify reasons not to "out" bad fulfillers, even the ones they will not use themselves. If this is the type of teamwork we have as an industry, that it is far better to sweep internal problems under the rug its no wonder we are suffering.

At the end of the day it is not our decision to make as to whether we are doing things right or not, it is the customers choice. A quick look around is enough to tell us that the consumer is finding other alternatives.

 

[Joe Mioux]

The interesting thing about this whole thread and train of thought is that most posts on it work hard to justify reasons not to "out" bad fulfillers, even the ones they will not use themselves. If this is the type of teamwork we have as an industry, that it is far better to sweep internal problems under the rug its no wonder we are suffering.

if you want FC members to develop a data base of "do not send" florists for you and your 50 or .... stores, just ask.

Criticizing and belittling the membership here won't get you very far with your need for a "do not send to florist" database.

joe

 

[Doug Munro]

Very well, asking again

if you want FC members to develop a data base of "do not send" florists for you and your 50 or .... stores, just ask.

Criticizing and belittling the membership here won't get you very far with your need for a "do not send to florist" database.

joe

Joe, I am not criticizing or belittling the membership on this board. My comments are always reflective of our industry in general.

I don't think that anyone (on this board or not) can deny that as an industry (at all levels) we have problems.

My comments on this particular subject reflect what I see in many cases on this board, the witch hunt mentality toward order gatherers and wire services. All I am attempting to do is point our that our industry problems are not due to one particular group but rather that there are many areas that must be addressed.

I realize that it is always easier to point a finger at the order gathers or wire services as they are easily identifiable targets however my belief is that problem lies with the fact that the consumer is making buying choices other than the retail florist. The reasons for this are many including order gatherers (both poor ones and good ones), the change in marketing tactics by the wire services, the introduction of flowers into mass marketeers, and (yes we have to include them) poor operators in retail flower shops.

The reality is that some of these changes we are experiencing are due to the changes in technology and communication, others have plagued this industry from day one. All I am suggesting is that we not ignore or make excuses for the poor operators in our industry.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Doug,

The industry is changing, but I would venture a guess that more shops are unhappy with orders from OG's and WS's than they are from other shops.

You know your not the typical shop owner, not with 50 locations!

Your problems are not the same ones Mom and Pop shops face. Think about this, just how many florist in reality have 50 locations?

Great your doing something right to have 50 locations, but how did you get them?
Do you consider yourself at a higher level than the rest of us?

How dare you come on this forum and expect the hard working single shop owners to fall in line with your wishes. If you have a list of shops you won't do business with, good for you. But I suspect that list is actually a lot of shops who will not fill your undervalued orders.

As many here have stated we all may have one or two we won't send to, but we have the integrity to use that information wisely, as not to slander an industry that we love and depend on.

What possible good would creating a "Florist Black List" do for our industry?

Doug be happy with your 50 locations, and stop sturring the pot, please.

Oh, by the way I personally don't appreciate the "Grower Direct" inference in your name. Suggesting your product is fresher than ours, when you know we all get our product fresh or direct from the grower. I suppose it's a great marketing too, but a little misleading don't ya' think?

 

[makescents]

Joe, I am not criticizing or belittling the membership on this board. My comments are always reflective of our industry in general.

I don't think that anyone (on this board or not) can deny that as an industry (at all levels) we have problems.

My comments on this particular subject reflect what I see in many cases on this board, the witch hunt mentality toward order gatherers and wire services. All I am attempting to do is point our that our industry problems are not due to one particular group but rather that there are many areas that must be addressed.

I realize that it is always easier to point a finger at the order gathers or wire services as they are easily identifiable targets however my belief is that problem lies with the fact that the consumer is making buying choices other than the retail florist. The reasons for this are many including order gatherers (both poor ones and good ones), the change in marketing tactics by the wire services, the introduction of flowers into mass marketeers, and (yes we have to include them) poor operators in retail flower shops.

The reality is that some of these changes we are experiencing are due to the changes in technology and communication, others have plagued this industry from day one. All I am suggesting is that we not ignore or make excuses for the poor operators in our industry.

Coming from me and my little tiny shop in po-dunk Texas.

Of course there is room for improvment in ANY industry. Our industry as many others in this day and age suffer from GREED!

I can give SOOO much more understanding and "excuses" to those that are at least TRYING to do things in an honest manner, with dignity and pride!

So ABC shop in west Texas doesn't have the best designer, may choose all the wrong flowers and do a horrible design.. but were they GREEDY, Manipulative or dishonest? FOR the most part NO! NO! NO!

If you want to know the difference, Doug... this is it! Intentions!

IT IS the WS intentions to STEAL our money - IT IS the WS intentions to charge the customer the most money possible and have the sucker filling florist fill to AS much as possible - they FEEL it is their right to MAKE all the money and the shops make NADDA! It IS the WS intentions to steal not only our customers and money.. but also our THUNDER! They talk a big game about how beautiful "their" arrangements are - WHAT? They don't "do" arrangements...

THEY "MAKE" arrangements with filling florists to put out the product..

OG's TRICK the customer.. leading them to believe any number of things...

If a consumer were to call me and say .. What town is your store located in - WELL I tell them Boyd, TX. What do OG's say? HHMMMM I personally have called several.. and normal response is "we are Local.. What city do you need a delivery in?" Then sometimes they just LIE!

Please keep in mind that I am a VERY good filling florist.. When I was FTD I received orders from ALL the major players in the DFW area.. I was the only shop they would use...

And FYI - I was a little offended being called Baised.. SO>.. With all of that - The next time I send an order out.. (I wire out an average of 4 per day - so it's not much) and the next time a filling florist cheats me, lies to me, is greedy or dishonest in ANYWAY - I will post it...

BUT the fact is... It won't happen!

By the way Ms. Carolyn - Hope I am on that "lovely" list... !!??:smoke

 

[Joe Mioux]

J All I am suggesting is that we not ignore or make excuses for the poor operators in our industry.

you were asking for a list of "do not send to florists".

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

You bet you are Tammie! How could you not be, your a great florist, an honest person, and a Christian, and you defend the truth. I really enjoyed talking with you few weeks back!

 

[Rhonda]

Hmmm... Now this I think is a viable place to say.....
Don't ever eat at the McDonald's in my town. Repeatedly I have placed special orders (never got them correct), have had missing parts to a value meal, repeatedly cold french fries, and employees that have no clue on how to wait on a customer.
Now since I have in the past utilized this McDonalds, I feel as though I can now "blacklist" it.
When I send flowers out of town for a regular customer who repeatedly sends to the same person, same town/city, I continue to use the shop I've used previously. Why? No complaints.. usually "thanks for the beautiful flowers my mom got". One of those shops is Sam's in Duluth MN whom I now call direct because they didn't have a WS that I did. Same way with The Garden Basket in Maryland...... outstanding service.
Complaints? Haven't had many the past few years (that I've heard of). Different recepients have varying "likes and dislikes". If I don't hear, I can't tell? Would I give a shop a break, especially at a holiday time? Possibly, if they make it right with the recepient.
35 years...... very very few problems and when there was... if no "regret" on the filling florists' part, the WS I sent it through was informed and mitigated the problem.
And yes, I do get the "they don't do the same as you do" (which is why I have delivered over 40 minutes away from me for special customers and they pay delivery charge)

But Doug, the above sentiments have been stated by most of us before in this thread. There is no need to continue to pound away because some people don't want to respond to your "request".

 

[lori042499]

Hey, Doug how about you posting all of the goto shops you have on your golden list....bet you won't send that one out...

 

[goldfish]

I think everyone is missing Doug's points, which sort of confirms his points that at least some of the vocal posters in this board are biased aginst OG/WS. That's true, no question about it.

Thing is, though, that bias itself isn't a bad thing. We can't be impartial all the time. I have my own bias, just like anyone else does here.

What I find more alarming is that many people in this board have become too quick to attack personally. A phrase such as "How dare you..." is uncalled for. Only a year ago, this wasn't the case here. FC used to be more mature.