OK - question about Wire Services

[PhillyPhlorist]

Why if you don't USE the wire service to enhance your business are you a MEMBER???

Gracious, this astounds me....

I am not looking for bashing posts here, 'cause there is SOOO much W/S bashing here on FC, it could fill hard drives.

Really, if you don't see the value a wire service brings to your shop, then a wise business decision would be to discontinue membership.
It's not rocket science here!
Many wires offer MANY services. If all you are doing is just filling orders for one, then no matter what "fees" you pay, you're probably losing money. Get rid of it then!

Now, some may USE a certain wire service for Tech, or Credit Card clearings, or product, or Fresh Flowers, or a web site, or to answer your phones after hours, or to "fill in the gaps with orders" as to keep your designers busy, or ALL OF THE ABOVE. Then, do some simple math, and figure out if your business is benefiting with membership!

Whatever the reason you're disgruntled...just don't come here and MOAN about "this w/s costs me SOOOOO much to belong! I will DEMAND they reduce their fees or else I'm dumping them!" stuff...come on...they're businesses too.

We've all heard enough of it.

So I charge you, DOO something about it! MAKE a wire service WORK for YOU or else you have NO ONE to blame but YOURSELF.

- Herb

PS - same goes for your POS. You signed for it. You bought it. Now LEARN it and USE it to make $$$ for YOU!!!

(as always, opinions vary, and I welcome ANY comments...)

 

[Chezbloom]

Every day FC gets more members. Many of them are just figuring out the WS puzzles and they need to get info to make informed decisions. Just because you are sick of the dialogue doe'snt mean we all need to shut up about it. Its always going to come up and for good reasons and redundant reasons. You no likey, you no have to readie!

 

[bloomz]

Chezdoodle - respectfully submitted - is there anything wrong with what Herb said there?

Helping new members make informed decisions goes against the emotion laden passionate to the point of irrationality stuff that is total common fare up in here. Those are hardly posts that help people make business decisions.

Herb's is. It's not rocket science - do the math, figure out if it pays and if it doesn't - quit.

I too have heard enough of it - all those bashing posts are in the archives, new members can search and read anti-wire rhetoric for weeks.

Do we have to go over the same crap (and lots of it is crap) every time a new member asks the same old questions?

opinions vary...:iwuvyou:

 

[Chezbloom]

There is nothing wrong with what he said at all. But, if what he said was so obvious, why bother to post it at all and thus stir up the same ole shyt? He started it....WAAAA

 

[Excptnl]

Why if you don't USE the wire service to enhance your business are you a MEMBER???

Gracious, this astounds me....

I am not looking for bashing posts here, 'cause there is SOOO much W/S bashing here on FC, it could fill hard drives.

Really, if you don't see the value a wire service brings to your shop, then a wise business decision would be to discontinue membership.
It's not rocket science here!
Many wires offer MANY services. If all you are doing is just filling orders for one, then no matter what "fees" you pay, you're probably losing money. Get rid of it then!

Now, some may USE a certain wire service for Tech, or Credit Card clearings, or product, or Fresh Flowers, or a web site, or to answer your phones after hours, or to "fill in the gaps with orders" as to keep your designers busy, or ALL OF THE ABOVE. Then, do some simple math, and figure out if your business is benefiting with membership!

Whatever the reason you're disgruntled...just don't come here and MOAN about "this w/s costs me SOOOOO much to belong! I will DEMAND they reduce their fees or else I'm dumping them!" stuff...come on...they're businesses too.

We've all heard enough of it.

So I charge you, DOO something about it! MAKE a wire service WORK for YOU or else you have NO ONE to blame but YOURSELF.

- Herb

PS - same goes for your POS. You signed for it. You bought it. Now LEARN it and USE it to make $$$ for YOU!!!

(as always, opinions vary, and I welcome ANY comments...)

This is why i think its the florists themselves that are ruining our industry...too much pissin and moaning and not enough working, marketing, etc..

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Herb & JB.......
I agree with you 1000% !! and more!!!!

Belonging.....or Not Belonging .....to anything associated with your business SHOULD BE a business decision. People need to get the olde pencil and paper out, and do the math.

The unfortunate part is that most florists do not know how to do the math. hence, the constant moaning and groaning......ad nauseum.

For the uneducated, get your wire service statements together.
1. list the monthly membership dues, the quality assurance fees, the receprocity fees, the send/receive/cancel fees for each service that you belong to. then total them up for each service.
Be sure to account for any fees that just happen periodically (holiday advertising, for instance).

1a. if you are buying or paying for a POS system, list that payment separately, with any required maintenance charges that you must pay for the system.

1b. Keep a separate tab on any product that you may have ordered. This should not factor into the basic premise of whether or not to belong to the wire service. (You would have had to buy some type of product to fill orders anyway.......and no-one forced you to buy the wire service items).

1c. Keep a separate tab for the cost of the credit card transactions. Again, you can do this somewhere else, if not thru the wire service.

1d. Keep a separate tab for any VALURE ADDED items that you have voluntarily signed up for (Flowers all hours, holiday advertising, for instance.) These items can be gone in a matter of minutes if necessary. Compare what it actually costs to belong vs what you get out of it in cold hard cash.

2. below that, list the # of orders you sent via each service, with the $$ value associated. Multiply this $$ # by 20%. this is what you receive from the wire service as income for sending.

3. below that, list the # of orders you received via each service, with the $$ value associated. Multiply this $$ # by 73%. this is what you receive in actual $$ from the wire service for filling these orders.

4. ADD together the answers from # 2 above and # 3 above. Compare this answer to what it costs you to belong (your answer from # 1 above). NOW...........
Are you ahead.....or are you in the hole?????

After you have this analysis in black & white, you can decide whether you keep the wire service -- or whether you should stop being a wire service member.

It's not that hard -- it does require some effort to pull the information together. And it does requrie that you examine your business, instead of just complaining about it.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

Cheryl

 

[master J]

....ummm Herb, I did exactly that, DUMP their sorry assses!!! I agree, No use in complaining about them...love 'em or leave 'em!!!:musical:

 

[bloomz]

and remember to remove any Value Added fees that you voluntarily signed on for.

Such as FAH or their useless sucker ploy advertising.

....ummm Herb, I did exactly that, DUMP their sorry assses!!! I agree, No use in complaining about them...love 'em or leave 'em!!!:musical:

That's cuz you're smart and not lacking in the ability to do math.

Anyone that doesn't deserves what they get.

 

[master J]

This is why i think its the florists themselves that are ruining our industry...too much pissin and moaning and not enough working, marketing, etc..

It seems to me that you are one of the members doing some of the pissing and moaning about how the merc machine used to spit out more orders and who knows how many other threads you have started complaining about FTD and how they aren't what it used to be....:dunno:

It's possible that Herb is speaking to you You need to decide for yourself if FTD is still right for you.....do the numbers and stop complaining about it I agree, and stop blaming other florists themselves:dunno:...

 

[Excptnl]

It seems to me that you are one of the members doing some of the pissing and moaning about how the merc machine used to spit out more orders and who knows how many other threads you have started complaining about FTD and how they aren't what it used to be....:dunno:

It's possible that Herb is speaking to you You need to decide for yourself if FTD is still right for you.....do the numbers and stop complaining about it I agree, and stop blaming other florists themselves:dunno:...

one difference....i market and market well, i buy smart, i price smart and offer great value...i dont just piss and moan and reject orders like some on this board...i use ftd and its services....i buy lots with the exchange, i use its after hours, credit card processing, i demand and usually receive things i ask for...ive gotten coolers through them, etc..

btw, i wasnt complaining about all the orders on the machine in the past...i was remeniscing (sp) thats all

 

[TOTO]

It's ALL GOOD and a CATCH 22 for some!

I liked Herb's post as much as Chezbloom and Master J's.

As another florist once put it: For some florists, their relationship with a Wire Service is similar to suffering from Spousal Abuse in a bad marriage. They want the BEATINGS TO STOP but they just don't know to get out of it, or where else to go when they do.

We're always going to have this Wire Service issue being bantered back and forth on FC, and for the NEWBIES, it will be an education.

Only thing which really counts in the end is: "WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET?"

Which is why, Cathy's WS calculator is critical to finding out THE TRUTH for each individual shop.

Here's an FC link to the string on this subject:

http://www.flowerchat.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203269#post203269

I've also attached it to this post for a download.

After that, not much else to say except that I suspect the enablers will always be amongst us, and so, their problem will never go away.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

pretty pretty pretty please, with glitter on top!

For the uneducated ...get your wire service statements together.
1. list the monthly membership dues, the quality assurance fees, the receprocity fees, the send/receive/cancel fees for each service that you belong to. then total them up for each service.
Be sure to account for any fees that just happen periodically (holiday advertising, for instance).

1a. if you are buying or paying for a POS system, list that payment separately, with any required maintenance charges that you must pay for the system.

1b. Keep a separate tab on any product that you may have ordered. This should not factor into the basic premise of whether or not to belong to the wire service. (You would have had to buy some type of product to fill orders anyway.......and no-one forced you to buy the wire service items).

1c. Keep a separate tab for the cost of the credit card transactions. Again, you can do this somewhere else, if not thru the wire service.

1d. Keep a separate tab for any VALURE ADDED items that you have voluntarily signed up for (Flowers all hours, holiday advertising, for instance.) These items can be gone in a matter of minutes if necessary. Compare what it actually costs to belong vs what you get out of it in cold hard cash.

2. below that, list the # of orders you sent via each service, with the $$ value associated. Multiply this $$ # by 20%. this is what you receive from the wire service as income for sending.

3. below that, list the # of orders you received via each service, with the $$ value associated. Multiply this $$ # by 73%. this is what you receive in actual $$ from the wire service for filling these orders.

4. ADD together the answers from # 2 above and # 3 above. Compare this answer to what it costs you to belong (your answer from # 1 above). NOW...........
Are you ahead.....or are you in the hole?????

After you have this analysis in black & white, you can decide whether you keep the wire service -- or whether you should stop being a wire service member.

It's not that hard -- it does require some effort to pull the information together. And it does requrie that you examine your business, instead of just complaining about it.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

Cheryl

Dear Ryan / Flowerchat Admins - please please please make this single post a STICKY at the top of the Wire Service FORUM. Of course we'll keep going over the same thing again and again and again .... if this type of post, and the WS calculator thingy were a sticky in the WS forum ..... oh glory be, think of the time & server space that could be saved from the same stuff alllllllll the time.

I promise if this is done, I'll stop asking for that little button to come back that you could use to mark a thread READ ... even though it's really really useful face

please?

/disclaimer - this is not to say new people shouldn't ask, that conversations shouldn't happen ... just to say how helpful it may be to those who do ask, who are new to asking. And helpful to those of us who aren't new to the conversation

 

[blueyedame]

Chezdoodle - respectfully submitted - is there anything wrong with what Herb said there?

Helping new members make informed decisions goes against the emotion laden passionate to the point of irrationality stuff that is total common fare up in here. Those are hardly posts that help people make business decisions.

Herb's is. It's not rocket science - do the math, figure out if it pays and if it doesn't - quit.

I too have heard enough of it - all those bashing posts are in the archives, new members can search and read anti-wire rhetoric for weeks.

Do we have to go over the same crap (and lots of it is crap) every time a new member asks the same old questions?

opinions vary...:iwuvyou:

Interesting.
No, you definitely don't have to. But you create ripples when you do, and I, for one, am grateful.
Maybe you should read what I posted earlier today. Just might make some of it seem worthwhile.

 

[bloomz]

Allow me to post my previous new member greeting:

Welcome to the board!

You'll find a wealth of information here, but here are a couple get aquainted tips.

There is also a helpful Search link at the top of every page
Search Query section
Search for Key Words;__________________________
You can us operators here such as and or +, or you can enclose the phrase in double quotations marks "search terms" to find the entire phrase.
Below that is the Advanced Search Section

Search Options section - advanced search
Select which "Forum" to search in at a time, or at all.

For example, "wire service" I would only search in the "Wire Service" section.
Many people that are new here seem to have a common theme, frustration with the wire services. Believe me, this has been discussed hundreds of times, and it's doubtful that anything new will come from further discussion of the exact same topics that has't been already beat to death, repeatedly. Do a search, you will find discussions from before - add to an older post if you feel the need rather than starting a new one.

That's the basic way, you can limit further by using some of the other "Drop-Down" menu's like if you know the thread you are looking for is only a week or so old, etc....

Now that you have a list of threads you've searched for, do not just click on the thread you want to read. Instead RIGHT click on the thread and select "Open in New Window" This will pop up a new window with that thread in it, leaving your searched list intact for you to go back to.

The purpose of the "Search" is to offer a member the opportunity to research his/her question better. There is so much information from past threads that you may never see because that member is no longer here, or doesn't see your new post, or just won't respond to the same question. So use it to your advantage and enjoy the board! View this funny and informative film about posting and searching…
http://uploads.ungrounded.net/188000/188612_Posting.swf

Take a few minutes to familiarize yourself with the forum. At the top of every board there are threads that are tagged as "Sticky" These threads are "Sticky" because they contain very important/valuable information about the forum and everyone should read them.

Following these simple tips will help keep the board pertinent, and eliminate the large numbers of S-O-S posts that we get here on a daily basis, thereby making this board the valuable useful tool it can be.

But we don't want the valuable, golden money making info threads to be lost in the sea of chaff.....

and please don't just be a lurker but an active contributor!

 

[Eric S]

There is nothing wrong with talking about the WS but considering how much information is already on the board I think new members just need to search first.

Maybe a new FC video showing new members how to search and jim can show them how to search this favorite subject.

 

[sandytf]

Bloomz-
That's a great new member intro-who sees it? I didn't. I was a lost puppy navigating the board when I first started. Not everyone is tech savy.

I think it would be beneficial to send something similar to all new members when they are accepted. It might be nice for them to get a message that says, "Welcome to Flowerchat-your membership has been accepted" along with some basic information. Heck, I didn't even know when I was accepted as a member. I still don't know what it takes to accept or deny someone membership. Is it a certain number of ayes or nays? It seems a little arbitrary and it's a bit of a mystery to me.

I know I posted at least one thread when I first started that was quite redundant. I actually had done a search but apparently hadn't put in quite the right words.

So....I'm just asking that everyone be a bit patient with the new peeps. There are no doubt some who are a little more shy but who none-the-less may have something great to contribute. If we scare them off we all lose.

Sandy

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Why if you don't USE the wire service to enhance your business are you a MEMBER???

Gracious, this astounds me....

I am not looking for bashing posts here, 'cause there is SOOO much W/S bashing here on FC, it could fill hard drives.

Really, if you don't see the value a wire service brings to your shop, then a wise business decision would be to discontinue membership.
It's not rocket science here!
Many wires offer MANY services. If all you are doing is just filling orders for one, then no matter what "fees" you pay, you're probably losing money. Get rid of it then!

Now, some may USE a certain wire service for Tech, or Credit Card clearings, or product, or Fresh Flowers, or a web site, or to answer your phones after hours, or to "fill in the gaps with orders" as to keep your designers busy, or ALL OF THE ABOVE. Then, do some simple math, and figure out if your business is benefiting with membership!

Whatever the reason you're disgruntled...just don't come here and MOAN about "this w/s costs me SOOOOO much to belong! I will DEMAND they reduce their fees or else I'm dumping them!" stuff...come on...they're businesses too.

We've all heard enough of it.

So I charge you, DOO something about it! MAKE a wire service WORK for YOU or else you have NO ONE to blame but YOURSELF.

- Herb

PS - same goes for your POS. You signed for it. You bought it. Now LEARN it and USE it to make $$$ for YOU!!!

(as always, opinions vary, and I welcome ANY comments...)

Herb asks a leading question which has an implied answer. He berates those struggling with the dilemma of wire service membership profitability and accuses them of whining and moaning.

The post itself implies some florists could use more wire service products and services to enhance their business but for some reason choose not to, but instead they choose to complain. The real issue isn’t why they aren’t using the wire services to enhance their business but whether it’s even possible to use their services to benefit business.

The issues facing florists regarding wire services are much more complicated than simply analyzing numbers. Many florists are in a state of decline. They no longer feel they can afford the costs associated with belonging to the wire services, and they realize it is a loosing proposition, yet the wire services have become such a large part of their business letting go may very well be impossible.

Even though filling wire orders is a money loser for most florists it does create cash flow and helps keep business flowing. It also contributes somewhat to fixed expenses, but the problem is it doesn’t contribute near enough. Florists become trapped with the choice between continuing with a relationship that is detrimental to the long-term health of their business and dropping with the distinct possibility of not being able to continue operating business at all. Neither choice has a happy ending.

So in conclusion, Herb asks a leading question to his predetermined answer. His solution is for florists to become even more entrenched and dependent on the wire services by buying into more programs and services offered, even though the services being used now are undermining the foundation and health of their business as it is. The problems facing florists are complicated and the solutions are not easy to find and don’t come without risks. Maybe, Herb isn’t in a desperate situation yet, but I believe he will be in a few years. Maybe then he will start asking the right questions and stop berating those who are struggling with the choices that need to be made now.

RC

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

I didn't get that feeling at all ... I got more of the "love 'em or leave 'em" idea that Adam mentioned ....

Of course the answer is complicated - many florists have never even sat down and looked, really really looked at the finanicals of the WS statement, and drawn conclusions from it. It's an old school florist necessity that many members (new and old) don't question.

I think Herb is saying "question it", and then do something about the answers you find, by making it work FOR you, or choosing to let go. Just don't float along complaining, without first really analyzing those expenses.

 

[Tuberose]

Why if you don't USE the wire service to enhance your business are you a MEMBER???

Gracious, this astounds me....

I am not looking for bashing posts here, 'cause there is SOOO much W/S bashing here on FC, it could fill hard drives.

Really, if you don't see the value a wire service brings to your shop, then a wise business decision would be to discontinue membership.
It's not rocket science here!
Many wires offer MANY services. If all you are doing is just filling orders for one, then no matter what "fees" you pay, you're probably losing money. Get rid of it then!

Now, some may USE a certain wire service for Tech, or Credit Card clearings, or product, or Fresh Flowers, or a web site, or to answer your phones after hours, or to "fill in the gaps with orders" as to keep your designers busy, or ALL OF THE ABOVE. Then, do some simple math, and figure out if your business is benefiting with membership!

Whatever the reason you're disgruntled...just don't come here and MOAN about "this w/s costs me SOOOOO much to belong! I will DEMAND they reduce their fees or else I'm dumping them!" stuff...come on...they're businesses too.

We've all heard enough of it.

So I charge you, DOO something about it! MAKE a wire service WORK for YOU or else you have NO ONE to blame but YOURSELF.

- Herb

PS - same goes for your POS. You signed for it. You bought it. Now LEARN it and USE it to make $$$ for YOU!!!

(as always, opinions vary, and I welcome ANY comments...)

If someone is in a situation of being 'stuck' with a wire service, mayhaps someone could list said benefits of each wire service and add a few comments about each, and whether they recommend using that particular part of the service.

We know from much debate that filling their orders isn't always profitable, what in particular besides that are specific services they supply that are not recommended?

I keep seeing comments here and there, but putting it all together, especially for a newbie, could be challenging.

I for one have found the Teleflora fresh product to be somewhat reasonable and was pretty good quality, and we occasionally get some decent deals on everyday hard goods.

Trish

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Trish:
Since you asked, I'll start......and I will try to be as factual as I can, without editorial bias.

1. The original premise of the wire services was to exchange orders between florists in distant cities. The very, very original beginnings were actually done florist to florist -- by telegraph ---in the early 1900's......... with no 80/20 split. Just even-steven.
From those humble beginnings, The Florist Transworld Delivery Association was born, as a group of like minded individuals, member owned, to exchange orders between cities and locales.

The 80/20 split was seen to be fair for the sending member as well as the receiving member. EVERYONE filled at full value, and guaranteed their product. (20% to the sending member & 80% to the receiving member.)

The premise of an order exchange is still a valid one today.

2. Quality of members -- and thus of your order being filled corectly.
Originally, to become a member of FTD, you had to furnish complete credit information, and actually be inspected and tested before your shop would be certified and accepted as an FTD member. The FTD logo on your door was a source of pride within the industry. If you saw the FTD logo on the shop, or they were listed in the directory, you had assurances that they would deliver the same quality that you would. Sadly, today, that is often not the case.

3. The wire service clearing house acts as a BANK for you. You send orders, and you pay the "bank". You receive orders, and the "bank" pays you. The bank collects a small % fee for their services.

4. Dispute and order resolution between shops. Again the Clearing house acts as the mediator between shops to resolve issues, and also to start an investigatory process if a shop is amiss.

5. Education -- thru the TF units, you have the opportunity accross the country to keep yourself trained, and further your education several times each year. Your local unit helps to bring these programs to you, and the cost of attending each program is usually very low.

6. Over the years, many, many other programs have been added.
For instance:
a. Credit Card clearing -- you can do all major ccs thru your wire service, as a reasonable rate. your funds are direct deposited. The clearing house also goes to bad for you in a cc dispute with a customer.
b. Holiday advertising -- there are opportunities to be part of nationwide advertsing programs, that in theory will expose you to a wider range of customers....locally and nationally.
c. Point of Sale systems -- both TF and FTD offer these -- sized for very small to very large shops. FTD actually pioneered the first systems.
d. Hard goods supplies -- specifically containers for the holiday products -- as well as everyday items.
e. Most recently, fresh flower supplies. This is a way for you to get fresh product, again for a reasonable price.
f. Web site development and web services. again, there are programs for all different sizes of shops.
g. Order transfer technology if you do not have a POS system. This is computer equipment, or internet capability now, that allows you to send and receive to shops arround the world, without dedicating an employee and a phone line to calling orders out.

-------------------------------------------------------------
From the beginning, FTD was the King and "the Brand" --- and it evolved into a household name just like Kleenix.

Change really began in the floral and wire service business when the decision was made to allow people who were NON-FLORISTS to basically send orders only -- and never receive anything.

Originally I think this was started to accomodate our armed forces who might be stationed at a duty station somewhere. (Then it grew -- and I and I don't know the inside scoop on how that grew into a pandora's box. ).

Then, as FTD and TF and others started competing against each other, and the pot of orders was not growing, there were "rebate games" developed to get big senders to send their orders FTD or TF or Redbook. LARGE amounts of orders would swing to one service -- or the other -- depending upon who was offering more $$$$. Money began to talk -- and loyality to "the Brand" went down the toilet.

In the early 1990's, When FTD was sold by its members, to an outside entity, we as florists, besically lost control of our business model forever. While the FTD members tried vainly to establish a Florist Association, the model was now doomed & failed.

The demise has continued -- as each wire service continues to raise fees, and add fees, and hit each member in the pocketbook at all times.

----------------------
The basic premise of a wire service is today, as it was in the beginning, to send and receive orders.
Lots of things have come and gone over the years. Lots of technology has come and some has gone.

The hard part of many long-time (read Old) florists to understand and accept is that the wire services are a completely different business model than what we all signed on for.

The names may be the same, the business is different.

TODAY, they are a BUSINESS SERVICE PROVIDER. They sell us services, and we may -- or may not -- choose to buy these services. Much of what they do is no different than doing business with you bank, your insurance agent, etc. They all provide services -- for a profit to them.

Hope this history lesson helps some who have not been in the business all that long to understand from whence we come.

Regards and Happy Palm Sunday to all,

Cheryl

PS...Just a point of clarification. I do not work for a wire service. I am a very independept minded flower shop. I use a wire sevice for what they can provide to & flor my business. Others, as they do the analysis, may reach a different conclusion. I am not advocating one way or the other. I AM ADVOCATING that you make your choice intelligently --- and that you review that choice from time to time. Things do change!