OK - question about Wire Services

[bloomz]

I haven't had my coffee yet but I'll add one for now which I briefly mentioned above.

Useless sucker ploy advertisising.

Primarily directory advertising but including holiday advertising.

Directory advertising - my *guess* is well over 80% of orders, florists are chosen from POS sytems and not the paper book so paying more (that doesn't work) to get orders with thin margins is a total bust.

Holiday/Parade magazine advertising is another total sucker ploy, which quite simply pays for "their" ads to compete with you. Your name is about 7 point with their dotcom in about 300 point, for a cost of "only" something like $300?

Total useless sucker ploy advertising waste of money which will do nothing but eat at your local sales profits.

One very useful vallue added service - FAH - if you don't answer your phones after hours the big dotcoms always will, and your customer will call them, don't fool yourself into thinking an answering machine will get them to "call back later". Costs you a percentage per order? Giving up 10% is way better than not getting the order at all.

Nuf said til I get coffee in me.

 

[goldfish]

It's relatively easy to calculate profitability of WS operations. That's an easy part of WS debates, as far as I'm concerned.

What is not easy is to evaluate +'s and -'s of intangibles, specifically the valuation of WS membership as part of business strategies.

For example, is it wise to sell WS-branded products on our websites?

It's easy to judge whether putting WS cookies on our website does or does not make a current financial sense.

But at the same time, the sales of WS cookies mean next to nothing to our own branding. In fact, they probably hurt it. From this point of view, putting WS cookies is not a wise biz strategy even though it might make a cash flow.

I thought the original post was hilarious but at the same time slightly misleading, as it implies that profitability is the only thing that matters. Profitability is a part, important one that is, of WS issues, but not the only one that florists have to consider.

 

[bloomz]

Oh Goldie reminded me of one of the biggest benefits of wire membership - access to their wonderful market tested product images.

I think I'd put this very close to #1.

 

[RWK]

JB, On your "market tested product images" that you love, Let me ask this.....Where, When, How do they enter the test market? They promote their designs as "proven best sellers" - but other than their own statement - Where IS the proof, Where was the knowledge gleaned, How did they make that determination?

These types of questions that we should be asking ourselves. The same applies to our own markets.......How do we test a possible new product? How do we determine what is for is a "Proven best seller"? How do we determine what is a great image to put on display on the website?

So, JB - Tell us, What evidence is out there that makes their images and designs worthy of selling?

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Oh Goldie reminded me of one of the biggest benefits of wire membership - access to their wonderful market tested product images.

I think I'd put this very close to #1.

And that's the #1 reason quality florists should avoid wire service product images. It gives credibility to any Tom, Dick and JB that wants to put up a website and start selling flowers, even if they aren't a florist.

Disclaimer: Not saying JB is not a florist, but rather giving ordergatherers the access to our products to sell is an advantage to them and a disadvantage to florists.

RC

 

[twiggy]

I think one of the questions you have to ask yourself while making this decision is.. How do you see yourself 5-10 years from now?

I thought about this question before I opened ..and decided that I didn't want a business partner like either of the WS (because you do have to look at them that way)
I took the hard road- I do all my own advertising, most of my own images, have my own website and blog. do I have tons of orders coming in right now? no, but my growth has been steady.

The way I see myself in the future is a healthy flower shop that has built up loyalty for this shop's signature products.

you need to look down the road a little further and see how your decisions now will affect your business.

 

[inferno63]

I am going to just say that the free market works. I believe that the errors of the member florists and/or lack of AND the errors of the OG's and WS and/or lack of will result in the absolute correct outcome in the free market. I think the discussion is necessary and educational to all whether you are for or against, member or not, lover or hater......the discussion itself is part of the free market. Consumers discuss products and services all the time and "word-of-mouth" can elevate or destroy your business. So on that note, my mouth is open and discussing.

Have a lovely day! :gossip:

 

[bloomz]

JB, On your "market tested product images" that you love, Let me ask this.....Where, When, How do they enter the test market? They promote their designs as "proven best sellers" - but other than their own statement - Where IS the proof, Where was the knowledge gleaned, How did they make that determination?

These types of questions that we should be asking ourselves. The same applies to our own markets.......How do we test a possible new product? How do we determine what is for is a "Proven best seller"? How do we determine what is a great image to put on display on the website?

So, JB - Tell us, What evidence is out there that makes their images and designs worthy of selling?

Whenever an order comes off my website and I check the email notifier - I have it set so it plays the guitar part from Pink Floyd's "Money".

That's my proof.

Is it because I haven't had my coffee yet or was that a really dumb question?


How's this - because they sell more in a day than any florist sells in a year?

ahhh never mind, carry on.....

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

How's this - because they sell more in a day than any florist sells in a year?

Then maybe you should try selling tampons.

 

[bloomz]

Need one?


actually, from the tone of this discussion - yer not the only one who could use one.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Maybe I've found my calling - selling tampons in the wire section of the flowerchat.

And that's the #1 reason quality florists should avoid wire service product images.
RC

Absolutely! - always good business practice to ignore the best selling nature of certain products.......:jester

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Ricky;
All the wire services do Market Reserch on their products. Every company that is going to bring a product to market does. Some are more sophisticated about it than others.

Heinz (the ketchup) people, and one of our Hometown companies, solicits panels for taste testing from various churches, women's groups, PTA, etc. The group has to show up, test what they are testing that day, fill in a questionaire on each product, and then they get paid $$ for their time. (my church participates in this about 2 xs per year).
Participation is limited, and rotated so that they get a very geographic mix of participation.

Flowers --- both containers and arrangements and flowers themselves -- are tested also. For years, a test marketer person would come with posters for each holiday -- about 1 year in advance, and we would answer a whole host of questions about each. Today, we are answering the same host of questions over the internet in test surveys. (TF is working on a new selection guide).

Every product is tested -- it does not mean that I agree with all the results. Something that may not sell in Pittsburgh, Pa may sell well in Dallas or in Detroit.

As florists, we do our own version of test marketing -- however, on a much smaller scale. Many would look at the calendar, try to estimate useage of a particular product, advertise a product, and hope for the best. Generally there is no well-thought out plan to drive sales to our doors -- because we have always relied on someone else to do that for us.

RC, because of his size, buying power and sauvy internet skills, has been taking it much further -- and has been able to actual Drive the market in certain ways, with his email specials. Roses worked well, spring bunches seemed to work well. All of his trials were a form of test marketing.

You would be amazed to see and learn of the products that DO NOT make it to market each and every year.....and then there are the ones that do make it, and we all scratch our heads and say "How"?

Marketing, and test marketing are a combination of Art, Science, and Faith........and a little magic thrown in for Good measure.

As I have urged others, Ricky, every college offers Marketing courses as part of their business school courses. There are also many books published on the subject. You might enjoy it!

Cheryl

 

[BOSS]

Absolutely! - always good business practice to ignore the best selling nature of certain products.......:jester

When the customer has nothing but WS images to choose from, of course they're going to choose a WS image. :rofl:

 

[inferno63]

Also, part of marketing is selling which is convincing the consumer to buy your product. The WS may use this tool when proclaiming that certain items are best sellers?

I am picturing WS Marketing Man in the warehouse with WS Webhosting Man saying,

"We seem to have alot of these purple and green vases, let's put some roses in them and call them a "best seller" on the website. Maybe this will increase the demand and then maybe that will entice some members to buy these up and get them out of our way."

You didn't know I was a "fly-ette" on the wall, huh?

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

- - -

It's possible that Herb is speaking to you You need to decide for yourself if FTD is still right for you.....do the numbers and stop complaining about it I agree, and stop blaming other florists themselves:dunno:...

Not speaking to anyone specifically. Speaking to the entire FC community - so, I guess that IS you, and you, and you...and you over there, and YOU..........

- h.

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

- - -
I thought the original post was hilarious but at the same time slightly misleading, as it implies that profitability is the only thing that matters. Profitability is a part, important one that is, of WS issues, but not the only one that florists have to consider.

Wasn't meant to be hilarious, but when looking back, I can see how my fustrations translated to the keyboard!

Your last paragraph is true, but I was not trying to mislead...you added a valid point: profitability is NOT the only issue to look at. You NEED to look at the SERVICES a w/s is providing your shop. FAH is just one service FTD provides. Expensive - yes, for some, others not. TEL web sites seem to do well with search engines. Their sites are a TOOL - a SERVICE your biz buys. Is that service worth it?

Questions you need to ask along with profitability.

I will go out on a limb here and say that for some shops, filling w/s orders is a LOSS LEADER as the real reasons they belong to a particular w/s is for the services they provide.

- H.

 

[Chezbloom]

I'm just not fond of the fact that, the WS have encouraged thousands of fake florists that are polluting the internet. So, aside from the fact that they may or may not be profitable, that fact alone makes me WS free. A potential flower buyer can have a hard time seeing the florist for the fleas.

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

Herb asks a leading question which has an implied answer. He berates those struggling with the dilemma of wire service membership profitability and accuses them of whining and moaning.

The post itself implies some florists could use more wire service products and services to enhance their business but for some reason choose not to, but instead they choose to complain. The real issue isn’t why they aren’t using the wire services to enhance their business but whether it’s even possible to use their services to benefit business.

The issues facing florists regarding wire services are much more complicated than simply analyzing numbers. Many florists are in a state of decline. They no longer feel they can afford the costs associated with belonging to the wire services, and they realize it is a loosing proposition, yet the wire services have become such a large part of their business letting go may very well be impossible.

Even though filling wire orders is a money loser for most florists it does create cash flow and helps keep business flowing. It also contributes somewhat to fixed expenses, but the problem is it doesn’t contribute near enough. Florists become trapped with the choice between continuing with a relationship that is detrimental to the long-term health of their business and dropping with the distinct possibility of not being able to continue operating business at all. Neither choice has a happy ending.

So in conclusion, Herb asks a leading question to his predetermined answer. His solution is for florists to become even more entrenched and dependent on the wire services by buying into more programs and services offered, even though the services being used now are undermining the foundation and health of their business as it is. The problems facing florists are complicated and the solutions are not easy to find and don’t come without risks. Maybe, Herb isn’t in a desperate situation yet, but I believe he will be in a few years. Maybe then he will start asking the right questions and stop berating those who are struggling with the choices that need to be made now.

RC

OK - settin' it straight here...

No, I was not doing this:
berates those struggling with the dilemma of wire service membership profitability and accuses them of whining and moaning.
Simply voicing my opinion that too much of the SAME moaning and groaning is going on about how a w/s is doing this, charging me that...here on FC.

No, I my solution is not:
"for florists to become even more entrenched and dependent on the wire services by buying into more programs and services offered, even though the services being used now are undermining the foundation and health of their business as it is."
If it were, I would have said that.

and,
No, not there YET, and, like everyone here, trying my best not to be:
"Maybe, Herb isn’t in a desperate situation yet, but I believe he will be in a few years. Maybe then he will start asking the right questions and stop berating those who are struggling with the choices that need to be made now."
but COULD BE if I don't watch my costs, my overhead, my payroll! NEWSFLASH: already asking the right questions...

Look, I am not berating anyone, nor am I saying you should support one w/s or another by using all or some of their services. Hey - I personally KNOW how sleeping with the enemy can cut your legs off business wise - almost happened to us. I have seen it happen to a GOOD florist here in Philly. Too much business volume based on one egg...then the egg cracked and his biz did to.

Just do some math. Then, look at the products a w/s provides to your biz: are they doing their job? Are you affording them?
If not, then don't complain - just FIRE THEM. Dissolve your business relations with that service - after all, you ARE paying for a SERVICE - if it' isn't working, should be a no brainer!

THEN, after all said and done, post your story hear. I would love to read how you made an intelligent, concise business decision. Who knows - maybe someone will benefit from it - maybe ME!

- H.

 

[sandytf]

This is actually very timely for me as I have been analyzing wire service profitablility for our 5 locations for the 2008 year. We have quite a range from location to location. In the best case scenario, we are taking in $28,000 in incoming orders and probably eeking out a 5% profit (that's taking into consideration COGS, labor, and the costs of the Wire service). In our worst case scenario, we are taking in only $2000 worth of incoming orders and definitely losing money.

It seems like it would be a no-brainer to just drop them, but it's not!

First of all, as others have mentioned, there is cash flow to consider.

Secondly, some of our locations actually send out quite a few orders and that is a service we are providing to our customers. I know we could still figure out a way to send the orders for them, but there is no comprehensive directory to use. I have to admit, when you google a town for a florist, I'm not always sure if it's really a local shop or not-so I could imagine that when we have 30 different people looking them up, they are going to get confused. Plus, our company is not really going to want a company credit card in the hands of that many people. (Do any of you who don't belong to a wire service offer outgoing to your customer and use their credit card to place the order?)

Thirdly, do I keep or drop on a location by location basis, or do I make a company wide decision? A lot of our advertising is done for the multiple locations so that would complicate matters.

So, it's not that easy of a decision-at least not for me.

P.S. I am leaning toward dumping their *** though

 

[RWK]

Whenever an order comes off my website and I check the email notifier - I have it set so it plays the guitar part from Pink Floyd's "Money".

That's my proof. - Do you offer a choice between WS and NON-WS images or do the customers just have WS images to choose from?

Is it because I haven't had my coffee yet or was that a really dumb question?
Not Dumb, Since you champion them so fervently, We assume you can show the reasoning for that fervency.


How's this - because they sell more in a day than any florist sells in a year? Is that Locally or Nationally - if Nationally, of course they sell more than any single florist - but - do they sell more in Corvallis Oregon than you?

ahhh never mind, carry on.....

It all boils down to choice - if I, an educated paying customer have nothing to choose from but 800TFTD's and nothing original - Why should I spend my money with you?

 

[bloomz]

When the customer has nothing but WS images to choose from, of course they're going to choose a WS image. :rofl:

and since it ain't broke - I doubt I'll be fixing it very soon.....:bouncy:

You kidz forget another thing here - sometimes (often in my case) consumers are looking for something they've seen advertised.

If they find me I'm happy as a pig in @@@@.