PhillyPhlorist
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- Feb 7, 2004
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One Less Wires Service
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PhillyPhlorist
Pro Member
- Feb 7, 2004
- 1,766
- 609
- 113
- 55
- State / Prov
- Pennsylvania
Blue Oyster Cult said:
Any NORMAL person knows that a better technology does not a better florist make!
TRUST ME....I have been in some shops that have bought systems with ALL the bells & crap...wouldn't send them an order based on what I saw come out of the shop....(I'm sure BOSS-man can attest to this...).
And, I think you are totally off-base with these remarks.........
- H.
Just had to chime in on this one. Blue we are using MAS. We are not now, and never will be in the future an FTD florist. We do not need merc to electronically send any wire orders. Trust me when I tell you we send thousands of orders and would not have FTD even sharpen a pencil for us!!!!Blue Oyster Cult said:
As for the closed network thing..... well no shop operating this system will view it quite like the way you do, you see MAS's users are for the most part visionaries, that also have the ability to turn a wish into reality.
So not speaking for MAS directly but, It would take a closed minded individual to see things the way you describe. And I am pretty sure those types of operations have little or no future in the ranks of MAS users, past, present or future.
Don't shoot the messenger, just because some don't like the message
Ryan's comments are exactly why there is so much flack about all the posting concerning POE systems. To my knowledge there is not a bad POE system out there. Some may have more features than others, but all are designed to do the same thing which primarily is aid in the accounting function and internal order processing. And as Philly pointed out, no matter how good a specific POE system is, it can not make you a better florist unless you have the knowledge and capability to take advantage of all the benefits of the systems and they might help you make better business decisions, but it CAN"T make you a business person.
There is, however, an inherit flaw in each one of these systems. All were originally designed to work with one of the remaining WS. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these software and hardware combinations are designed to "talk" to each other once they have been removed from "the mother's apron strings" <WS>. In other words, MAS can't talk to FAS, FAS can't talk to Flowersoft, flowersoft can't talk to visual ticket, etc. unless the communication is aided by the WS main computer. Hense, any sales potential currently for ANY of these systems is strongly limited without the WS. In fact, today that limitation is the strongest it has ever been because these WS actually hold the key to any chance for future sales of any POE system - no matter how good your system is or how superior the features. If they pull the plug on anyones system and do not allow you access to THEIR membership, you are dead in the water until you come up with an alternative!
Yes, I know that Mas can talk to Mas and Fas can talk to Fas, but there is not enough florists in either of these categories to do real f2f order transfers. You need alot more florists to make these systems work the way you are going at it. We all know that 45 members isn't enough. We all know that you may have to have as many as 20,000 florists unless you people are all willing to pay some very high costs for delivery. Any creator of a POE system will always be walking on eggs concerned that they <the WS> will someday deem you "unfit" and pull your plug!
Until you can find a way to address the commission problem to the satisfaction of all or come up with a plausible way to include the vast majority of florists into the sending and receiving capability WITHOUT everyone having to buy the SAME system, I personally don't think it matters what POS system you decide is the best. It is like chosing an electronic scoreboard for your favorite sports team. You can pick the one that has all the whistles and bells, and fireworks you can possibly imagine, but it is important to know that when you buy that system it will never score any runs for you or stop the visiting team from scoring either. It just keeps track of hits, runs and errors. They bought a scoreboard in Chicago to shot off fireworks on homeruns, but don't do that anymore. Costs too much now and considered disruptive to the neighborhood around the ball park. Moral of the story, times change and so must the system.
If you can't solve the commission problem with one system, offer two. If you can't find a way for these systems to talk to each other, then find a way for them to talk to a central point on the internet and most important find a way to eliminate exclusivity. I know that seems impossible, but no one is going to trust anyone anymore that has too much control over choices that florists have to make if most are under the control of a few companies. Trading one boat anchor for another does not solve any problems.
Just my views on a very hot afternoon!
Infinite said:
Ryan's comments are exactly why there is so much flack about all the posting concerning POE systems. To my knowledge there is not a bad POE system out there. Some may have more features than others, but all are designed to do the same thing which primarily is aid in the accounting function and internal order processing. And as Philly pointed out, no matter how good a specific POE system is, it can not make you a better florist unless you have the knowledge and capability to take advantage of all the benefits of the systems and they might help you make better business decisions, but it CAN"T make you a business person.
There is, however, an inherit flaw in each one of these systems. All were originally designed to work with one of the remaining WS. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these software and hardware combinations are designed to "talk" to each other once they have been removed from "the mother's apron strings" <WS>. In other words, MAS can't talk to FAS, FAS can't talk to Flowersoft, flowersoft can't talk to visual ticket, etc. unless the communication is aided by the WS main computer. Hense, any sales potential currently for ANY of these systems is strongly limited without the WS. In fact, today that limitation is the strongest it has ever been because these WS actually hold the key to any chance for future sales of any POE system - no matter how good your system is or how superior the features. If they pull the plug on anyones system and do not allow you access to THEIR membership, you are dead in the water until you come up with an alternative!
Yes, I know that Mas can talk to Mas and Fas can talk to Fas, but there is not enough florists in either of these categories to do real f2f order transfers. You need alot more florists to make these systems work the way you are going at it. We all know that 45 members isn't enough. We all know that you may have to have as many as 20,000 florists unless you people are all willing to pay some very high costs for delivery. Any creator of a POE system will always be walking on eggs concerned that they <the WS> will someday deem you "unfit" and pull your plug!
Until you can find a way to address the commission problem to the satisfaction of all or come up with a plausible way to include the vast majority of florists into the sending and receiving capability WITHOUT everyone having to buy the SAME system, I personally don't think it matters what POS system you decide is the best. It is like chosing an electronic scoreboard for your favorite sports team. You can pick the one that has all the whistles and bells, and fireworks you can possibly imagine, but it is important to know that when you buy that system it will never score any runs for you or stop the visiting team from scoring either. It just keeps track of hits, runs and errors. They bought a scoreboard in Chicago to shot off fireworks on homeruns, but don't do that anymore. Costs too much now and considered disruptive to the neighborhood around the ball park. Moral of the story, times change and so must the system.
If you can't solve the commission problem with one system, offer two. If you can't find a way for these systems to talk to each other, then find a way for them to talk to a central point on the internet and most important find a way to eliminate exclusivity. I know that seems impossible, but no one is going to trust anyone anymore that has too much control over choices that florists have to make if most are under the control of a few companies. Trading one boat anchor for another does not solve any problems.
Just my views on a very hot afternoon!
carol
New Member
Griff said:
This is what I have been saying.. Griff is right.. no one is going to trust any conrolling company again.. but if there was a central pont on the internet that we could transfer orders thru.. any POS company could develope a way to talk to it and process info back to the florist.. Not sure how we 'motivate' POS companies to do this.. and of course there is the issue that no 2 florists seem to agree on anything.. but it happened in 1919 (with FTD) so maybe if we get creative we can make it happen again..the biggest issue is the commissions.. remember the only reason the OG's exist is because the inclusion of rebates made the 20% commission work big time for them..If rebates were not in the picture then th 20% gets mighty slim covering the big advertising outlays it takes to get the large sales volumn needed.
cutting the commission to 15% would be great but just cutting out the rebates would work also.. remember rebates are financed by the money WS's use to use for national advertising plugging the local members.. that went away .
a central distribution point o n the internet could work.. if a few of us dedicated time and effort..
I applaud your enthusiasm, Carol, but it is very unlikely that you will find the solutions to any of our problems without florists being willing to change their entire business philosophy when it comes to order transfer. Some think that the internet has created situation that all consumers will eventually contact the receiving florists directly and f2f will no longer be necessary. I personally disagree. If florists have continued to service their customers as they should, it is not logical that the consumer will now by- pass that local florist to call someone they know nothing about. The florists that believe this, are willing to bet the farm on websites and the internet.
Then there is the commission situation. People like myself feel that eventually all florists should be sending orders at 0-100 with a sending fee, but larger florists with a large number of outgoing need a way for a soft landing so there has to be some way to provide a transition stage. it doesn't matter whether you stay 20-80 or 15-85, they problem is going to be that larger senders do not want to compromise. Hense, you have to have a way to "blend" these two ideas.If you can not change the commission, you can never get rid of order gatherering.
Exclusivity is the biggest concern. None of these companies really want to go to a "middle ground" for order trasnfer. They think they will lose money because of loss of upgrade fees. After all, any computer can access the internet and all information can be changed almost instantaneously at that "middle ground" and they would only be able to charge a set fee for actual transmission of an order. Hense no company is willing to sacrifice for the good of the industry.
Ryan, couldn't have said it any better. They can continue to expend time and energy talking about whose POE is better, but until someone is really willing to face up to the fact that they are only one part of a system which no one is willing to change, they are still just trading boat anchors.
Then there is the commission situation. People like myself feel that eventually all florists should be sending orders at 0-100 with a sending fee, but larger florists with a large number of outgoing need a way for a soft landing so there has to be some way to provide a transition stage. it doesn't matter whether you stay 20-80 or 15-85, they problem is going to be that larger senders do not want to compromise. Hense, you have to have a way to "blend" these two ideas.If you can not change the commission, you can never get rid of order gatherering.
Exclusivity is the biggest concern. None of these companies really want to go to a "middle ground" for order trasnfer. They think they will lose money because of loss of upgrade fees. After all, any computer can access the internet and all information can be changed almost instantaneously at that "middle ground" and they would only be able to charge a set fee for actual transmission of an order. Hense no company is willing to sacrifice for the good of the industry.
Ryan, couldn't have said it any better. They can continue to expend time and energy talking about whose POE is better, but until someone is really willing to face up to the fact that they are only one part of a system which no one is willing to change, they are still just trading boat anchors.
steve
Well-Known Member
Some think that the internet has created situation that all consumers will eventually contact the receiving florists directly and f2f will no longer be necessary. I personally disagree. If florists have continued to service their customers as they should, it is not logical that the consumer will now by- pass that local florist to call someone they know nothing about. The florists that believe this, are willing to bet the farm on websites and the internet.
Well I am one of the florist that believes this is the direction the business is clearly going. But I would not say I am betting the farm on it Griff. I am still a large sender and I am postioning myself with one foot in each pool. I have done 4 times as much business this year on my web site as that of a year ago. A large portion of that business is coming from customers all over the country that 3 or 4 years ago would have been sending through a local florist. Betting the farm no but postioning myself to grow with it and investing in it YES.
Well I am one of the florist that believes this is the direction the business is clearly going. But I would not say I am betting the farm on it Griff. I am still a large sender and I am postioning myself with one foot in each pool. I have done 4 times as much business this year on my web site as that of a year ago. A large portion of that business is coming from customers all over the country that 3 or 4 years ago would have been sending through a local florist. Betting the farm no but postioning myself to grow with it and investing in it YES.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
It is just a case of numbers
However, rather than make this a discussion over numbers, let's just use logic.
First you have all these florists talking about how much service they provide their local customers. So your business has experienced a 400% increase in internet generated orders over the last year and that is great! But at the current time it is estimated that only a very small percentage of florists currently have websites. If every florist had one, would you have the same increase in business next year? I do not question the fact that websites can help a florist "reach out", but no one has been able to show that people who use the internet are NEW flower buyers. They are the same buyers just using another method to send flowers. There is nothing wrong with "putting your feet in both ponds".
If you have done everything you can to service your customers in your area and I do everything I can to service mind in my area, are we all willing to say that no matter how well we provide these services, that evenually all your customers and mine will start orderings direct and go around us? Sorry, but it is not logical. YES, these is a segment of everyone's customer base that will do just that, but the big question will always be - HOW MANY?
With "two feet in two ponds", a florist is spending more money and "betting on the come" that money invested in the internet will get more orders "full value" to offset these same orders orders if placed through the traditional discounted WS. In some cases YOU are going to be right. The smaller the town, however, historical fact shows that town only receives x number of orders per month and that number isn't going to change whether you get it full value or discounted. In other words, you are playing on the discount rate as versus the cost of doing it. It can work to the advantage of the larger florists, but not necessarily for the medium or smaller florist. And the game changes every month with the monthly average of orders to that town and yet the cost is constant.
f2f is not going to go away and the internet is not going to go away. It is also important to note that the number of order gathering sites seem to grow daily in the floral industry which actually increases competition within each of our local markets without even have to have brick and mortar in your town. I want to continue to emphasize that none of these things we are talking about individually will solve our problem. Not more technology, not more internet presence. If you can't get the industry back into the hands of the florists, you will continue to have these discussions until there is no one left to talk to.
However, rather than make this a discussion over numbers, let's just use logic.
First you have all these florists talking about how much service they provide their local customers. So your business has experienced a 400% increase in internet generated orders over the last year and that is great! But at the current time it is estimated that only a very small percentage of florists currently have websites. If every florist had one, would you have the same increase in business next year? I do not question the fact that websites can help a florist "reach out", but no one has been able to show that people who use the internet are NEW flower buyers. They are the same buyers just using another method to send flowers. There is nothing wrong with "putting your feet in both ponds".
If you have done everything you can to service your customers in your area and I do everything I can to service mind in my area, are we all willing to say that no matter how well we provide these services, that evenually all your customers and mine will start orderings direct and go around us? Sorry, but it is not logical. YES, these is a segment of everyone's customer base that will do just that, but the big question will always be - HOW MANY?
With "two feet in two ponds", a florist is spending more money and "betting on the come" that money invested in the internet will get more orders "full value" to offset these same orders orders if placed through the traditional discounted WS. In some cases YOU are going to be right. The smaller the town, however, historical fact shows that town only receives x number of orders per month and that number isn't going to change whether you get it full value or discounted. In other words, you are playing on the discount rate as versus the cost of doing it. It can work to the advantage of the larger florists, but not necessarily for the medium or smaller florist. And the game changes every month with the monthly average of orders to that town and yet the cost is constant.
f2f is not going to go away and the internet is not going to go away. It is also important to note that the number of order gathering sites seem to grow daily in the floral industry which actually increases competition within each of our local markets without even have to have brick and mortar in your town. I want to continue to emphasize that none of these things we are talking about individually will solve our problem. Not more technology, not more internet presence. If you can't get the industry back into the hands of the florists, you will continue to have these discussions until there is no one left to talk to.
steve
Well-Known Member
Sorry Griff I know you are not a supporter of the internet but speaking for my market area Of the 15 competitors left out of 25 five years ago. 13 of the 15 have web sites plus I have 5 national order gathers in my phone book with web sites. Will there always be some florist to florist business yes mainly with the older population that has not embraced the internet. But it will be a fraction of what exist today just as the present is less then it was 5 years ago. The internet is 24/7 365 days a year. They are not going to move alway from you in this one area because they do not like your service they are going to move to this and are moving to this because its easier, they can do it on the fly during the course of there busy day or during the middle of the night.
My O' My look what you started Griff!
Dead silence for a day and then the OG operation mentality kicked into drive.
Look, most shops have a website thanks to their stupidity of listening to their VENDOR of choice memberships into having World Wide Delivery access. This discussion of the consumer in going the direction of ordering everything on-line is true but it's a select group thanks to all the Identity Theft problems that consumers today are having ordering ANYTHING on-line.
As long as the media keeps spinning the Identity Theft over the Internet purchases via using your CC the better, I like my chance to HELP my local Customers and customers who call from out of town.
I know when I do a Direct F2F order for our customers it is not THEIR IDENTITY that will be compromised, it's MY CC and our "special" account we set up to track all the dogs who think they can Overcharge or go on a shopping spree with OUR IDENTITY.
It doesn't really matter anymore on how to fix the problems today the fact is no one wants to get off the life rafts because they are still Afloat?
Today on this board 106 people visited....106 out of ???????? Lot's of life rafts still floating around the Floral Ocean.
Have a Great Day!
Dead silence for a day and then the OG operation mentality kicked into drive.
Look, most shops have a website thanks to their stupidity of listening to their VENDOR of choice memberships into having World Wide Delivery access. This discussion of the consumer in going the direction of ordering everything on-line is true but it's a select group thanks to all the Identity Theft problems that consumers today are having ordering ANYTHING on-line.
As long as the media keeps spinning the Identity Theft over the Internet purchases via using your CC the better, I like my chance to HELP my local Customers and customers who call from out of town.
I know when I do a Direct F2F order for our customers it is not THEIR IDENTITY that will be compromised, it's MY CC and our "special" account we set up to track all the dogs who think they can Overcharge or go on a shopping spree with OUR IDENTITY.
It doesn't really matter anymore on how to fix the problems today the fact is no one wants to get off the life rafts because they are still Afloat?
Today on this board 106 people visited....106 out of ???????? Lot's of life rafts still floating around the Floral Ocean.
Have a Great Day!
flowerknife+us
New Member
Even if there are no "new" flower buyers. There is a difference of 27% between a web order and a wire order. I'll take a 27% raise any day!
It really doesn't matter if there are 21,000 shops with a web site. Only that 20,000 don't know what to do with it.
It is apparent that people are looking more and more for a direct contact with their service provider vs a 3rd. party.
Assuming a stagnet number of consumers as a whole. Every internet order holds the potential of being 27% better than befor.
It really doesn't matter if there are 21,000 shops with a web site. Only that 20,000 don't know what to do with it.
It is apparent that people are looking more and more for a direct contact with their service provider vs a 3rd. party.
Assuming a stagnet number of consumers as a whole. Every internet order holds the potential of being 27% better than befor.
steve
Well-Known Member
Flowerknife just said it perfectly and for those that do not agree that is fine but fact is the good old days and the good old ways are not coming back thats just the way it is
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