Order Gatherer Websites

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

...
Predatory lending, in my mind, is simply capitalism in action. The real culprit is the BANKERS that decided that anyone could lend money. THAT'S what ruined this part of the industry.

We all know predatory lending is wrong. It is based on deceit, takes advantage of the unsuspecting, and victimizes the poor and elderly

Very clever post, however I am not really aware of the "predatory lending" issue...what is that exactly? High interest rate loans? Perhaps if you helped me understand that issue I could respond...but yes perhaps many things that are legal are not "right", but also remember that is a relative term. What is "right" today was not "right" 50 years ago, and so on.

All order gathering is based on deceit, because if the consumer really knew where the top 50% of his money went he would never order from one. Is there any wonder why the consumer is turning away from the traditional floral industry at an alarming rate? The consumer doesn’t understand why he feels ripped off. He simply looks for an alternative to flowers the next time. These are consumers that will probably never come back!

Finally, just because something isn’t illegal it doesn’t make it right.
RC

I *COULD NOT AGREE* with this more, and you will no bigger foe of the WS model than I, my friend. I was attempting to show the hypocrisy of condemning "evil OGs" while continuing your WS subscriptions. The WS is no longer any good for anyone except the WS and their Big Boy Fillers, and the more ways to show this the better, IMHO.

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Well opinions do vary on that. Something you may have missed in the original post was this


I again purport (hope that's a word) that some, perhaps even many OG's can supply better value consistently than someone picking your average Mom and Pop shop off the internet because of who they work with. Again, the Golden prefferred florist list. I try very hard not to do anything deceitful. I believe in marking my site on every page exactly who and where I am.



blessings.....

I view the ordergatherers much like the other million and one internet scammers that are out there. They all could make the same arguments and rationales as the ordergatherers use in our industry.

I know for instance, that if someone wants flowers in Dayton and haven't found Oberers and instead find me, they will still get superior value cuz I know the best florist in Dayton to use! And he will not get 50% value from my preferred colleague in Dayton. He will get wowed.

Guess who that would be?

Bloomz, I don't want that order. Why should I subsidize my competition by filling a loser order?


RC

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Very clever post, however I am not really aware of the "predatory lending" issue...what is that exactly? High interest rate loans? Perhaps if you helped me understand that issue I could respond...but yes perhaps many things that are legal are not "right", but also remember that is a relative term. What is "right" today was not "right" 50 years ago, and so on.

Predatory lending means imposing unfair and abusive loan terms on borrowers, often through aggressive sales tactics, taking advantage of borrowers' lack of understanding of extremely complicated transactions, and outright deception. Usually the victims are the poor and elderly.

I *COULD NOT AGREE* with this more, and you will no bigger foe of the WS model than I, my friend. I was attempting to show the hypocrisy of condemning "evil OGs" while continuing your WS subscriptions. The WS is no longer any good for anyone except the WS and their Big Boy Fillers, and the more ways to show this the better, IMHO.

For the life of me I don't understand why 98% of florists are even members of any wire service.


RC

 

[ROBSWF]

further detail needed....

I would like to be a little more specific on my view on this issue. I do not see the future of our industry depending on any MIDDLEMAN company. I do see the wire services putting the squeeze on the GATHERING companies for selfish reasons in the future. Because the wire services want direct control of those orders.

When I say that we should all be gatherers, I mean from our local markets. And I am not talking about gathering orders!! Our focus is GATHERING CUSTOMERS. This can only be accomplished by florists that are focused on providing their servicing area with quality products, value and exceptional service. Add marketing, advertising and high visibility to that and you almost can not go wrong.

Generic order gathering as we know it to be today, offers nothing of value to consumers other than convenience. Consumers are learning that costs of a convenient order are deducted from the delivered product. This is evident in the downward trend in the dollars and volume of retail flower shops. Consumers and recpients are being burnt, and it will take more than a discount, bold listing, early ordering buy, yellow page add or Fancy website to get them to send flowers again.

The proof is in our pudding. We have to re-establish credibility with consumers. They are now being bombarded with discounts at every ordering point. Flower Clubs, employee rewards, and credit card member discounts to mention a few. The battle is much too large, and those behind the order capturing machines are spending monies that are un-imaginable to most of us.

I say, let those with a short term vision chase the orders. We should focus on a more long term solution to our problem. We should focus on CUSTOMERS and loyalty. Customers and loyalty can not be stolen forever. They are merely lured away and scammed into believing someone who promises something they can not deliver. It’s up to us to remain focused on what it is that makes us different from all of them. This process is not as quick as chasing orders, but has longer longevity.

Quality, quantity, value and service. We’ll be right here as the BIG gatherers attempt to out spend each other, suspend one another, and bankrupt one another. We’ll be right here with BRIGHT, BOLD, FABULOUS FLOWERS at FANTASTIC VALUES!

 

[bloomz]

I view the ordergatherers much like the other million and one internet scammers that are out there. They all could make the same arguments and rationales as the ordergatherers use in our industry.

Bloomz, I don't want that order. Why should I subsidize my competition by filling a loser order?

RC

Do I take that to mean you don't believe in the reciprocal exchange of orders between real florists?

RC you seemingly talk like you don't have a nationwide site like many of the rest of us do and we know that not to be the case. Are your site(s) based on deceit as well?

I don't see it that way but...

opinions vary

 

[Dazeal]

Perhaps *some* mislead the customer about loan rates, but isn't it *really* the customer’s own fault, not theirs?

This is where you are wrong RC. Wrong wrong wrong. It is NOT the customer's fault, the customer was deceived. A customer, whether it be loans or flowers, don't have time to play Colombo for every action they make. A business can be liable for deceitful actions. That is why there are laws set up to protect consumers.

I see nothing wrong with, for example, JB online gathering. He is not being deceitful, just smarter than you and I. You have your website and gather orders from your phone book. When you type in your city name, state and florist, aren’t you concerned about gathering orders? If a customer calls your shop, because they found your site online, and wants you to wire orders to another state, are you going to turn that customer down? I doubt it.

Do most florists tell each customer that they can call the florist direct to save money? Why not? Isn’t keeping information from a customer, like a bad OG, a form of deceit? *shrug* Maybe, maybe not.

I give my customers the choice. You and most people here gather orders the old fashion way, which makes it "ok". JB is ahead of the game and he is wrong for evolving? Maybe we could hate OGs too if we came from an awesome established florist, like you have. Some of us smaller shops do what we can to survive. Like JB said, when the telephone came out, I am sure those florists were scowled at by the florists with just telegraph.

Why don't I OG like Bloomz? I have the know how and resources, but I will cut my nose, to spite my face before I give a WS $1. Most WS of this day are unethical in their practice towards their faithful florists and it makes me sick.

RC you are one smart cookie and we pretty much see eye to eye, but this s a great debate and I enjoy it. How do you send orders our RC if you don't have a WS?

When I say that we should all be gatherers, I mean from our local markets.

Rob, what about the people that live in another sate who want to send their Mom something on Mother's Day? Don't you want to gather orders on your website FOR local customers/potential customers too?

I still belive in the OGs and the dOGs.

 

[bloomz]

Do I take that to mean you don't believe in the reciprocal exchange of orders between real florists?

RC you seemingly talk like you don't have a nationwide site like many of the rest of us do and we know that not to be the case. Are your order gathering site(s) based on deceit as well?

I don't see it that way but...

opinions vary

No answer?

hmmm

 

[Rhonda]

Okay who's this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DOZEN-RED-ROSES...6QQihZ010QQcategoryZ16087QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Gee, Teleflora should be real pleased with this advertising from gourmetflowers.net

 

[goldfish]

http://cgi.ebay.com/DOZEN-RED-ROSES...6QQihZ010QQcategoryZ16087QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Gee, Teleflora should be real pleased with this advertising from gourmetflowers.net

Actually, I don't see anything wrong with it. Rather, it's a clever marketing tactics, i.e., using the eBay bidding as a bait (from which they probably take a slight loss) to increase the traffic to their web site (note the link in the description). "Buy now" sections generate some sales, too. Hmm... I should seriously consider something like this....

Look at this item, too... Clever.

 

[Rhonda]

The problem being, if they are wiring the winning bidders prize, they had better pass on the codified amount that shop is doing a dozen roses for.
If someone buys that white arrangement for say $50? and wants it to come to my area, I'm not filling it for that!! The sending shop must apply minimums at the least. That seller MUST have a minimum opening bid to cover their a$$. Why take the chance of getting a winning bid of $50 on that arrangement and having to wire it out to say a high priced area where the minimum on THAT design is $150? Get what I mean?
Why bother to put your time and effort into selling on eBay if you aren't drop shipping, that I can see.

 

[BOSS]

Good point Rhonda...

 

[Griff]

Sorry, folks, but I don't think you understand. This website is not about the bid on the roses for $27 or a bid on the sympathy piece for $50. By the way what is the last time you had a customer willing to "stand in line" for a week to order a funeral arrangement. The key to this site is at the bottom. If you are the losing bid and you still need roses, you order a dozen for $50 plus $13 for delivery and handling <whatever they want to call it>, the site sends you an order for $70 including delivery and you're jumping for joy! Of course after discount, you get paid $55.05 after transmission charge. The site owner collects $63 from the buyer, pays the WS $51.10. collects an additonal $3 plus dollars on rebate and pays Ebay maybe $5 < I don't know what real no. is> for order. In rough numbers, the site owner is $9 or $10 ahead. The original rose offer which is on bid is a LOSS leader. Whomever wins the bid gets a rose arrangement or sympathy arrangement send out at minimum or whatever it takes to the receiving florist and the sender eats the difference. If the winning bid on the roses is $28 + $13, all he has to do is get a receiving florist to accept the order for as little as $56 including delivery. If the receiving florists asks for $60, he gives it, He ends up losing $4 on the bid plus whatever he paid to Ebay and gains $9 on the order below. The is ONLY ONE winning bidder per week, Any orders generated below is pure gravy.

You really got to love YOUR discount system especially when you find out that one of those rose orders you fill is from one of your local people that though that your price was too high.

 

[goldfish]

The problem being, if they are wiring the winning bidders prize, they had better pass on the codified amount that shop is doing a dozen roses for.
If someone buys that white arrangement for say $50? and wants it to come to my area, I'm not filling it for that!! The sending shop must apply minimums at the least. That seller MUST have a minimum opening bid to cover their a$$. Why take the chance of getting a winning bid of $50 on that arrangement and having to wire it out to say a high priced area where the minimum on THAT design is $150? Get what I mean?
Why bother to put your time and effort into selling on eBay if you aren't drop shipping, that I can see.

I think they are passing the codified price or at least something close to it. With the sending rebate, they will get very close to break even; i.e., the money customer pays to them would be roughly equal to the money they have to give to the recieving florist and WS.

The clever thing about this is the fact that they will get many "free" clicks to their web sites from people who are potentially interested in buying flowers on-line. COnsidering that CPC bid is very expensive these days, I think this tactics is clever, even if they send the codified amount and thus many no money from the sale.

 

[goldfish]

Good point Rhonda...

Well, I think what this florist is doing is NOT the sale of flowers. Thye are using eBay as a cheap alternative to Google Adword.

Instead of paying a few bucks a click to Google, they use eBay to get "free" clicks. The actual "sale" doesn't have to make money at all. In fact they set the bidding minimum so that, with $13 "shipping" fee, it covers approximately 75% of the codified price, i.e., with rebate, it's going to be roughly break even, even if the winning bid is the minimum.

 

[goldfish]

By the way what is the last time you had a customer willing to "stand in line" for a week to order a funeral arrangement.

The funeral piece is "Buy Now" only, meaning that people cannot bid on it. They price it at $125 + $13.

 

[Griff]

Goldie, that's interesting. Unless my eyes are completely failing me, when I looked at that all white arrangement before it was bid at $50 and I think Rhonda saw the same thing based on her comment. Now it clearly is $125. If you go to that florist's site, it is priced at $142.99.

Would you pass the snake oil, please. By the way, if anyone has noticed, the current bid on the roses is now $31. Another couple bucks and his loss leader will not longer be a loss.

 

[BOSS]

Goldie, that's interesting. Unless my eyes are completely failing me, when I looked at that all white arrangement before it was bid at $50 and I think Rhonda saw the same thing based on her comment.

Same here... it was at $50.00

Site belongs to a florist, The Enchanted Florist, David Latch, Orland Park IL.... know him Griff?

Interesting that TF is the site host, but the Ebay listing states the piece will be delivered by a local FTD florist

Sorry for the repeated edits... ODDity... the site has Teleflora tech contact, but is hosted by Novator...Hmmm...they host FTD's stuff....

 

[Griff]

Well BOSS, the bidding is over. Dozen roses arranged for $32 plus $13. Sure would be interesting to find out which TF florist receives the order from the Enchanted Florist in Orland ParK. Wonder what the price will be on the order? I'm sure someone can be convinced that accepting these orders will give them a marginal profit gain.

Sure hope the ladies weren't clicking on too many buttons on that ebay site. One of those clicks will take them to a porno site.

 

[Rhonda]

I've been to eBay enough to know that it usually is a rare occasion that those flower auctions actually get bids to cover. Holidays maybe.
I wouldn't want to be posting those auctions for roses at $24.99 everyday (some of those and I will call them SLEAZY florists) spend most of their time putting up auctions. Sell maybe one out of 10 postings. Sorry, the clicks not worth the time to put them up. And then try to find a clueless florist to fill that order for the cheapest price? Maybe in a city with a Teleflora book at hand (they seem to have the lowest minimums, check it out). But don't try to send that order to me for less than I could ever fill it for. Which is WHY I want to know who these florists are because ethically, I don't appreciate their methods, period.

 

[Griff]

I wouldn't want to be posting those auctions for roses at $24.99 everyday (some of those and I will call them SLEAZY florists) spend most of their time putting up auctions. Sell maybe one out of 10 postings. Sorry, the clicks not worth the time to put them up. And then try to find a clueless florist to fill that order for the cheapest price? Maybe in a city with a Teleflora book at hand (they seem to have the lowest minimums, check it out). But don't try to send that order to me for less than I could ever fill it for. Which is WHY I want to know who these florists are because ethically, I don't appreciate their methods, period.

I agree with you. I'm not happy with them either. If you are selling roses arranged in your town for $55 <example> and you deem it a fair price, anyone selling the same picture of roses for less makes your prices look high. And that is easy to do as they don't have to buy the goods, pay a sesinger or deliver the goods. If someone on the internet is offering a dozen roses for $32 plus $13 and has figured out that even if he or she loses a buck or two on the bid portion, but other consumers scroll down to the NOW prices at $50, that order gatherer is still way ahead. This is all a game of numbers and these are mostly REAL FLORISTS that are playing these games. We all know it. We all know that many of the people who post on these boards are REAL florists that also order gather. It seems left up to individual interpation as to whether their method is ethical or not. No I'm not happy with it either. Unfortunately building a long list like this doesn't seem to have any real effect either and the list grows longer by the day.