Refusing works!!!

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OK...boys and girls.....

here's your challenge for Mother's Day......
Talk to EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
EVERY SHOP REFUSE EVERY ORDER generated by non-florists.
This should be pretty easy....
 
Excellent points by Mark and Carol.

Some food for thought to the fulfillment advocates -

Are you willing to discount your local orders by 40% (since that's what the real cost of WS orders generally nets out to) to keep your staff busy?

Would you even offer that discount to your best accounts to keep them? That's what's happening now by filling for most OGs - only they acquire the buyer's info, not you.

Your good work keeps the buyers going back to the OGs and helping them sell even more discounted orders for delivery in your area. In the mean time, you're trying to figure out how to compete with them and the thousands of other affiliates targeting your local market - but lack the profits to generate the ad dollars to do so. It's a self-perpetuating scheme.

Carol said it well:
short term cash flow at the expense of long term fiscal health
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CHR said:
Your good work keeps the buyers going back to the OGs and helping them sell even more discounted orders for delivery in your area.
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Exactly, it's YOUR design specialty that makes THEM look good...

NOT in my store!! Not gona happen here at ANY cost!
 
Hold on

A couple of points.

1. OGs are not going away. Period. As long as the W/S exist, someone will find a way to take advantage of the economies of scale in advertising on the internet and/or yellow pages, and--somebody will fill the order. Boycotts generally don't work, especially one that involves 40,000 independent businesses (ok, I made that # up).

2. Who among us doesn't believe that fulfillment/distribution centers aren't right around the corner (literally)? If it gets too tough for a W/S to get an order filled in a big market, up goes the warehouse. There is a proflowers fulfillment center very close to me, and believe me, the industry doesn't need more of those.

#2 is the one that worries me. When enough shops go out of business, and wire services strip all the emotion out of shopping for and sending flowers, we're in big trouble.

Finally, I do think there is hope for us. The big move into direct ship will lead the big companies out of the flower biz. This segment doesn't offer the growth they need -- proflowers has already said that. Once the big companies turn into online home shopping networks, the remaining florists should have an opportunity to jump back in and fill the void. And that, friends and neighbors, is why you need to be up to speed on your internet presence.

I'm only a new florist, but that's how I see it.
 
This has been a great thread. IMHO, all the gobblegook comes down to this. If you sleep with the dogs you wake up with fleas. You can't be a little pregnant! We all know 1800-ProTFTD no longer cares about its filling members (but bends over for its OGs), and are still taking advantage of the ignorance of its long-time "I remember when..." fillers to keep the (D)OGs floating along and membership/container fees flowing. They will continue to rah-rah those dumb enough to pay and fill until they are bled dry, then blame them for not "keeping up" with the new flower business "paradigms" (corpo-speak extraordinaire).

I guess what frustrates me the most is that many of you that post here WHO NOT SHOULD BUT *DO* KNOW BETTER still work for the wires!! I guess my practical engineering "right is what the math says" training makes it difficult to on one hand know something is "wrong", but on the other do it anyway.

Justifying your relationship with the bloodsucking Big Flower corps. reminds me in a way (and I am knowingly violating Goodwin's law here) of those who worked with the Nazi's and even terrorists just for a few bucks. The hypocrisy of speaking ill about the wire scams here, but then sending and filling 5 orders a day offends my sensibilities and makes everything that person says suspect.

Yes yes there goes 12bucks again talking crazy and being a loose cannon...
 
goldfish said:
Fillig orders from OGs does not mean that the filling florists are "part of" the despicable business practice of OGs. It simply means that these florists, our store included, are not participating in the boycott of these OGs. There is a difference between not participating in a boycott and supporting the practice of that company, a difference that some purists might fail to recognize.

It is also important to point out that there are two groups of florists who are not participating in the boycott. One group is those who simply want as many incoming orders as possible. I don't understand why, but there are many florists like that.

We are not trying to get as many wire-ins as possible. Rather, as a new florist, we want as many opportunities as possible to access to the local consumers. Filling for OGs provides this advertisement opportunity, with its cost mostly covered by the person who ordered the flower. It happened many times that we delivered one of those FTD.com orders (from which we make no money), but the recipient liked it and then started ordering from us.

I also understand that, for established florists, the situation is quite different, because they already have loyal client bases. Filling for OGs erodes these clinet bases, as oppoed to opening them up for new florists.

If we local florists want to kill dOGs (deceptive OGs), the most promising approach, paradoxically, is for us to become better OGs than they are. That will sure wipe out the current dOGs.

Many of us who are members of FC already have their own decent-looking e-commerce sites that could gather orders. What we don't have, collectively, is a powerhouse directory or portal to list our sites.
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The wire services and ordergatherers live for replacements like you.

If the logic of your reasons were to hold true. Then You need to answer the question as to why so many of us refuse to fill those very same orders????

The math only works out with large volume and very good management thereof. Even then there is Doubt. All else is just B.S.
 
Joe Mioux said:
Yes, it does deserve a reply. It was a Rhetorical Question.

I thought my salutation, "Provacatively Yours", would have clarified that I meant nothing personal.

Obviously, it didn't.

Simply put ....... You misunderstood my comment and question...

From reading your posts as well as your husband's, I know you wouldn't discriminate based on race.

I could have used another analogy such as ... political affiliation or something less sensitive than race, but I was making a point ... a comparison...

You don't discriminate on race but you do on certain wire orders.... I was eliciting a response. I wanted to hear why one form of discrimination was acceptable while another was not.

Unfortunately, I failed in conveying that message to you.

The end result of your business practice is some flower buying consumer is being hurt or inconvenienced by you not accepting these orders. Right or wrong, OG's are here.

Also, discrimination is not necessarily a bad trait, for example one's exquisite and discriminating taste in clothing or food defines the character of a person.

I meant no malice to you, your husband, your business, or your family.

Sincerely.....

Joe
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Were not conserned with denying anyone service who has such protections under our Constitution. If in Spirit more so than specific Laws.

We fill any order some one wishes to give us. Providing the product is avaliable.

As long as it is not an OG or HQ. Period. We refuse to be their hired help. And really are not conserned with any rammifications that may result from our refusal. I consider just dumping them in the Trash as being un-ethical. So we have a little leg work and baggage

The whole Idea is to deny the opposition customer satisfaction!

Like I have always said. The consumer is going to want to send flowers. If the OG and HQ crowd can't get the service. the Consumer will keep looking. The satisfaction of finding someone to take care of them leaves a memorable experience.

Many many more shops could see these results if more followed suit. It would send clear messages to the services that certin pollocys need to change.

Refusal is the only weapon you have.

Why be so liberal of mind as to not use your best weapon to defend yourself???
 
flowerknife+us said:
There is no reason under Dods green Earth that they can't send it to me directy. Either by Dove or Phone. No one else need grease their palms in between.
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Well I needed "Dod's help last week when I was having problems finding flower shops.:)

I should have sent them through domestic retrans.

Also, I have several accounts where all we do for them is wire orders. They do not want to spend time doing it themselves.

Joe
 
slcummins said:
Sorry, I'm with Joe on this, It makes little to no sense to be a memeber and pay your monthly fees if you refuse to fill the orders. Now if you don't have the product or can't afford to fill it on the tiny amount of money they gave you, then I agree that it should be refused. But just to be snotty about who you do and don't serve????? I just don't get it. The dumb Blonde
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Blondi, Dye your hair. Been a member of a wire service long enough to remember all the years they NEVER took an order. The only "orders" "they" took, were mine and other shops orders in the FIRST PLACE. Even those numbers are dwindling.

Dye the Hair in the Black. Not the Red.
 
Joe Mioux said:
Replying to Boss and Goldfish's last graph....

Basement Betty's may not have a delivery van, but I bet they have a car.

How else would they get to the beautician for their weekly "doo"?:rolleyes:

Seriously, Mark, I don't think a local Basement Betty would have a problem making a local delivery.

I am a bit surprised no one has offered any commentary on one of my previous posts regarding reducing the per unit cost of one's membership dues.

Joe
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A Loss. is a Loss. Is a Loss. Simple enough.
 
flowerknife+us said:
.

Why be so liberal of mind as to not use your best weapon to defend yourself???
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Wait till Daz and Bloomz reads this! :rolleyes:

I take great offense to you calling me liberal minded. No response is needed.:)

Joe


I am not really offended
 
Joe Mioux said:
Cathy:
I look at the wireservices as just something we have to service our customers.

For the most part, for me, incoming v outgoing is almost equal.

Hence 20 pct in v out is a wash.

The 7 pct and membership fees is just a cost of doing business. My only goal is to mininize my WS affiliated costs per order as much as possible.

To that end, yes, I would like to send a few more orders than receive in order to break even.

Why, because if I cover the costs of doing wireservice business, I actually will make more sales and hence more profit from the incoming side.

Flowerchild, I don't understand your last post.

Joe

P.S. I am really not that passionate one way or the other about WS's. It is something we have and I do my do my best at making that part of the business as profitable as possible.
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Been there, done that. Dumped it anyway. Good by and good riddance
 
BOSS said:
Goldfish, Joe and whom ever....

I agree that a "basement betty" would have the ability to deliver the product. My analogy was trying to equate an OG and anyone (in this case a basement betty) that generates an order and then transfers it to a local florist for fulfillment.

Imagine, (and this happens everyday) that a customer shops your store and sees the XXX arrangement in your cooler for local delivery priced at $47.50 plus delivery. This same customer then goes shopping at Walmart and sees the same XXX arrangement priced at $39.96 so they place the order.

Now Walmart transmits the order thru a wire service (since they do not deliver directly) and said wire service removes Walmarts name from the order and sends it to your shop and you fill it. The traditional florist segment of the industry has just lost a customer, the wire service has just gained the consumer data, and Walmart, and the wire service made a profit, and then the local florist has to eek out a slim margin, make and deliver the arr.

All the while, the consumer has learned that you are priced higher than Walmart, that they can order at Walmart and that YOU will be the delivering florist and that YOU will be the one responsible should anything go wrong along the way. Sorry, I am not willing to put businesses reputation on the line for them.
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Not sure I agree with the gasoline analogy, the truck driver works for the oil company that manufactures the petro, delivers the petro and sells the petro...

Difference is florists are independant businesses, and gas stations are franchises (or something like that)...
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I do agree with your theory that you need to stay in business and build for the future, I only question the need for OG and "company" orders...have to give this some more thought...
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And lastly, Joe, the pricing thing must include outgoing as well, the 20% is a wash based on the equal number of INcoming/OUTgoing orders I agree, but if a shop, sends a bigger bulk than they receive the cost of membership becomes more diluted with each outgoing order.
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There is nothing to think about Boss and you know it. You did what you did dispite all the numbers and the funny math to rationalize a previously costly job.
 
Joe Mioux said:
Well I needed "Dod's help last week when I was having problems finding flower shops.:)

I should have sent them through domestic retrans.

Also, I have several accounts where all we do for them is wire orders. They do not want to spend time doing it themselves.

Joe
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Sorry I didn't have the 15 or so locations you needed to have someone fill your orders.

With the number of florists in Teleflora arround here. Hq need not be used. Unless the order came from someplace NO GOOD!
 
you guys are awesome....

no fighting over WS's please!!
i guess, it's easier to say IF you ALREADY belong to a wire service, you absolutely MUST keep your cost per order at the absolute minimum.
I see things a little differently....there is STILL a huge segment of people that have neither the ability, nor, the inclination to send orders out of area, and it IS gonna be a "niche" market, the more shops make their choices.
Since, we are ON the subject, we've talked over and over again about having an interflorist network without wire services!!
can I assume thee idea is still there??
Mark and I discussed many times launching freesendingzone.com, and other sites like it, yet, when BBJ put a FULLY FUNCTIONAL interflorist network in place, NO ONE WAS INTERESTED!!
 
Mikey the Flower Guy said:
NO ONE WAS INTERESTED!!
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Any how may people have signed up for the free directory ... ???

41 links, including some duplicates from people that cover different towns. According to this poll, 106 were onboard. It's as shameful as the response to the Real Florist Blog - we are offering free links from highly rated sites, and people can't be bothered.

Oh, well ... those that do will benefit, and will continue to prosper :)

Ryan
 
I Confess...

Ryan,

Guilty as charged, however I fully intend to sign up for the free directory. Thank you for the reminder. I'm sure it is frustrating for you to dedicate your time and efforts providing these services, only to have FC members not respond. I apologize for not following through yet, and want you to know that I appreciate all your hard work. I did sign up for the Real Florists Blog some time ago, so at least I'm not totally out of the loop!
 
flowerknife+us said:
You started it with the Race nonsence.
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F & U, You can't possibly be serious with this response and the one prior to this one.

I was being light hearted and having some fun

Please accept my sincere appology, if I have offended you.

Joe
 
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