SAF and their stand on Order Gathering

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

what "rules"???...strategically placing yourself, or MYSELF, between right and wrong, there's "rules"??
Wire services have turned into "enablers", and have "disabled" OUR rights, to play by the "rules"??
We can "change" the rules by calling a spade a spade, and NOT a mechanical earth moving device.......
The new and "improved" wire services make rules up as they please, so, the way to fight, is to set OUR OWN RULES!!
NO HOOP hopping for wire services, and NO "home runs" for OG's.........

 

[concord]

When I quit the wire services it was because I was done playing by their rules so they could make money on my hard work. That is the simplest way I know to solve the problem. I now focus only on the things that will make me profitable and help me to remain in business. Even though we all love to bash the OG's and blame them for the industry problems, it doesn't mean we aren't taking positive steps, too. We can vent on FC , long for the good old days, AND deal with the new reality. Multi-tasking for fun and profit.So keep the thread alive, so after a long day of marketing my business, I can relax with some OG/WS bashing. Doesn't mean I'm not doing what it takes to run my business in the real world.

 

[lori042499]

The whole point is not that you belong to a wireservice or not, but don't give people yet anpther reason to not shop with you....We should be all striving to be a full service florist to our customers should they want to send out of town and do it better than the next guy...we should be wanting our local customers to want to send through us rather than use use for their local orders and hop online for their out of town orders, our websites should be used to capture all orders to anyone who likes it whether sending near or far, it should be enticing enough to make people want to order....This is all great and I strive for that, however I do have big problems lieing to my customers and won't do it to make a dollar, I won't tell them they are getting anything for free if it truely is not for free...I also won't hike my prices up in order to give a discount or anything else that is just simply shady....but I will still try to get people to use me and I will take orders from someone in NY to send to someone in CA and have no problem doing so, if they happen across my website and like it and send me the order, but I won't be advertising in ny as a local, no way no how, it just isn't right!!!

 

[Eric S]

I was hoping that this thread would go away but it hasn't.

It seems as though they are many members of this forum hear the words 'order gatherer' and immediately circle the wagons and are ready to burn the messenger at the stake for merely uttering those words

I disagree and I really wish people would stop assuming that one stupid phrase is the reason why.

It is so much more thern that and i feel that Peter has had more then enough time to give us a little more insight to what he really means.

Please by all means respond here or on facebook send me a firkin letter that says I didn't mean that
And I want all of saf members to kick some ass and keep promoting their own products and stop supporting the third partys that enable all of this crap that we are all tired of seeing.

I'm tired of of getting customers that have been burned so bad on false promises, their credit cards skimmed by third party companies and have never received an arrangement as it's shown on their website. I'm tired of reprograming the consumer just so I can prove to them they are getting something awesome from me. I'm tired of other companies setting the prices for the whole industry. I didn't vote them in and they did not run for election to represent this industry.

The wire services are suppose to provide us the tools to make all of our businesses better not just for a select few that lie and cheat about delivering their products.

 

[bootcampguy]

I'm tired of getting customers that have been burned so bad on false promises, their credit cards skimmed by third party companies and have never received an arrangement as it's shown on their website. I'm tired of reprograming the consumer just so I can prove to them they are getting something awesome from me. I'm tired of other companies setting the prices for the whole industry. I didn't vote them in and they did not run for election to represent this industry.

Well, I think this says it all........................It's going to take awhile for "truth" to get it's pants on (Blago says).............but,
without the words, "yes, I'll take that order for you"..............then who is in charge?......

 

[Doug Munro]

IMO the wire services enabled the ogs. If they were not allowed to use wire services to fill their gathered orders they would not be competing against wire services and all florists now. If wire services did not allow (sending shops only) and kept their business shop to shop this would not have happened.

Whoa...... Turn back the clock to the days that the average retail was changing wire services on a regular basis chasing an extra $0.25 - $0.50 in rebate money. Add to this that in general many florists never see a rebate due to two facts, they either don't hit the minmum send or they don't pay on time.

What this tells me (IMHO) is that the florists who intitally drove the rebate war were the successful ones.

Secondly, at one point on time the second question (rebate being the first) a potential member florist asked a wire service rep was

"How many orders can you send me?"

So between paying higher rebates and members demanding more orders where did everyone think the WS's would look for these orders?

 

[anytimeflowers]

So between paying higher rebates and members demanding more orders where did everyone think the WS's would look for these orders?

This is the core issue, right here. This is why florists need to sow seeds in their own communities, and on their own websites, even if those websites are ws sites. Nobody is going to do this for them. Nobody SHOULD do this for them.

 

[lori042499]

Whoa...... Turn back the clock to the days that the average retail was changing wire services on a regular basis chasing an extra $0.25 - $0.50 in rebate money. Add to this that in general many florists never see a rebate due to two facts, they either don't hit the minmum send or they don't pay on time.

What this tells me (IMHO) is that the florists who intitally drove the rebate war were the successful ones.

Secondly, at one point on time the second question (rebate being the first) a potential member florist asked a wire service rep was

"How many orders can you send me?"

So between paying higher rebates and members demanding more orders where did everyone think the WS's would look for these orders?

They didn't think...this is the problem...the florists wanted the orders handed to them and still do on a large scale...it was way easier than marketing to the public themselves..Had they only had the foresight to see the cause and affect...maybe things would have been different, but I doubt it would have mattered....they still would not have seen the monster they were creating for the dime they got right now!!!

 

[Doug Munro]

At the risk of repeating myself , the bottom line is that incoming wire orders MUST be treated as gravy. A shops focus must always be on building it's day to day local business, this is what pays the bills and will make a shop successful. However, since to my knowledge no one in the last decade has found a way to increase overall flower consumption increasing your sales means taking them from "the other guy".

On occasion one of our stores will relate to me that a number of their competitors have had to shut down. The fact is that this is a good thing! It simply means that there are less that are trying to share the pie.

One of the things that is too often overlooked (or possibly intentionally ignored) on this board is that a percentage of florists should simply not be in business as they lack the aptitude or business skills. We have all heard the horror stories about overpriced merchandise or botched weddings. These individuals are a detriment to the industry as a whole.

Once upon a time when the consumer was more forgiving, the internet did not exist and times moved at a slower pace these individuals eked out a living. In today's world with grocery stores, mass marketers, and online presence they are failing. In a nutshell, moving forward some will have to fall by the wayside to ensure the good operators succeed. The key is to ensure that you yourself are not one of the fallen.

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Quote of the day!

One of the things that is too often overlooked (or possibly intentionally ignored) on this board is that a percentage of florists should simply not be in business as they lack the aptitude or business skills. We have all heard the horror stories about overpriced merchandise or botched weddings. These individuals are a detriment to the industry as a whole.

True enough, and well said....

And myself, at the risk of repeating myself... oh hell, never mind.

 

[BOSS]

"It's criminal"....

To quote "J" Schwanke in this months FM... right on bro...

Not surprising in the "letters" one from Rod Baker III, Teleflora "National Accounts"(I'll leave that part alone) about shops "stepping up" their online marketing. Yep Rod, I agree with you on that point... but I digress... if it were not for Teleflora and FTd rewarding deceptive marketing tactics with rebates up to $8-10.00 per order to NON-florists local mom and pop slob florists would not have to fight for their rightful place.

What is it about: To be a "florist" you have to actually touch flowers that the two biggest "flower" companies in the world do not understand???

 

[bootcampguy]

To be a "florist" you have to actually touch flowers that the two biggest "flower" companies in the world do not understand???

I never go caught up into the rebate game, service means more to me than that..........but florist don't realize that if you're in the rebate game (then service or who fills it doesn't matter). Yeah, florist are steppin up their internet game and "I'm pulling out all the stops" going for broke. As for the tow large flower companies......................ah, it's lunch time, save my breath

 

[BOSS]

Thanks to Peter Moran for answering critics concerns about his comments in the August Floral Management article about thinking like an order gatherer in this months issue.

While I still vehemently disagree with SAF's stance, I respect Mr. Morans willingness to stand before the guns.

I do not see where exposing the deceptive practices of wire services and some florists like Wesley Berry, the Kremp clan and others would be considered restriction of trade. They DO advertise making it look like they are physically located in the thousands of cities they target, I still have a problem with that, and wish SAF did too. Some things never change.

 

[Rhonda]

Gee, Does Mr. Moran have an email address, I'd love to forward to him the google search pages where Weasley states they are "a Master Florist" delivering in my town.

 

[concord]

Gee, Does Mr. Moran have an email address, I'd love to forward to him the google search pages where Weasley states they are "a Master Florist" delivering in my town.

Yes that Weasle really gets around! He is a master florist delivering to Concord, Ma too.

 

[bootcampguy]

Yes that Weasle really gets around! He is a master florist delivering to Concord, Ma too.

Well, we have new fan club going........I'll pay dues

 

[Sarah Jane]

I just did a google search for a florist for my town and Wesley is also located there! There is also an order gatherer who is an owner verified listing on google maps claiming to be located just a few blocks from my shop. I can't believe people would not find this to be deceptive. I mean, they are claiming to have an address on my street. Has anyone ever had luck removing a deceptive listing from google maps? I've reported them a few times but they never go away. It drives me nuts. My life revolves around staying above them in the search engine but they call themselves "Pace Florist" so if that is the only search term someone uses, then the "Pace Florist" is all they get in the local results. People actually come in here looking for "The Pace Florist". So annoying that OG's do this. So annoying. I could get over my issues with order gathering as long as they would do it honestly; but claiming to be a local business is so deceptive.

 

[domineaux]

Unethical business practices have been an issue, since business was first created.

Representing yourself as something you aren't, well in my book it's unethical.

Google is a co-conspirator, just like the phone companies were when they allowed the same practice in yellow pages.

A lot of headway was made by class action lawsuits against the telephone companies.

Google is run by abunch of little smart mouth twits, so they'll have to be taught a lesson at some point.

Now they have Google places... what a joke, you pay $25 per month and they allow the big WS and OG advertisements prominent positioning on your so-called listing. You can't get away from the influence of the big OG and WS, because they do pay per click, adwords, banner ads, adsense ads all over local pages.

Because I am continually doing searches on my computer for flowers to stay abreast of things. My searches do have search words associated with flowers, florists, etc. and these keyword seaches are being used to create a marketing profile of my preferences... LOL

I went to B & H camera website awhile back and looked for some specific items. I'm serious... for a week everytime I went to another site looking for similar information I got B & H website ads on the pages of other vendor sites. It was spooky, and the worst part is they will perfect their craft. By that I mean over time they will be less "in your face" and more subtle about their ads, but they will still target your perceived interests.

Practically everywhere I go on the web the WS and OG ads popup on the rendered pages. Google is an information gatherer of the worst sort. Google uses your search experience data to target ads for their advertisers.

Think about that... I'm serious. It's like this --> If you go into a grocery store and pick up a bottle of Strawberry Jam and read the label, from then on everytime you go into "any" grocery store there are ads pointing you to Strawberry Jam. I think that is invasion of my privacy.

Awhile back I mentioned... don't use the Google Chrome OS, it is an information harvester. I'm very serious about this, if you use Google for search realize that your information is being harvested, stored and being used to enhance Google's revenues.

A note on getting a non-local business removed from local listings."GOOD LUCK"

I know of local listings in my area where OG show they are located in the middle of intersections, in elementary schools, in government buildings, etc., etc. Google won't remove those listings. I know local businesses that use all their in-house phone numbers to create extra local Google listings. Remember, Google corroborates a listing by a phone call. They are too lazy, cheap or have other reasons not to verify listings correctly.

I don't hate Google, don't get me wrong. It's just that you have to take care of your own interests...end of story.

 

[BOSS]

Google is run by abunch of little smart mouth twits, so they'll have to be taught a lesson at some point.

Good luck with that.... not going to happen.

The ONLY way these things will change in the flower biz, is when people stop filling gathered orders. It's the only way the flow will change.... and that too, will never happen, in my business lifetime anyway...

 

[bootcampguy]

Good luck with that.... not going to happen.

The ONLY way these things will change in the flower biz, is when people stop filling gathered orders. It's the only way the flow will change.... and that too, will never happen, in my business lifetime anyway...

I would like to offer another version..........it would take me hours to explain in depth why I take order from the WS and OG (it's all about the customer) not the platform..........I've had several calls in the last few weeks florists telling me that they are gettings calls from (2 different groups of people) who are trying to buy shops up at 10%. The reason they don't care about wire out buisnes is because you would control that with the customer list, so no need to pay for it. My OPINION is one or more of the OG might make a "Gerald Stevens" run at the industry if filling options become to sparce. Look at what 800 did in the early 2000, filling became a problem so they opened in major markets and had about 30% of the market at one time (not now). If we quit filling their orders then we look like "we don't want to play on the same field"..............Hold the profaninity for now, I use a 3 step system to convert that customer and rec. information into our marketing funnel and then "market the hell" out of them and now we're at 40% rate of converstion. Dominueax said ealier, we are the ONLY idustry that it's vendors its also our competitor..............Not a good mix, my solution is that they we out-smart them (we can do) while keeping the respect level or "our" customers above water. Sorry, I'm in talking mood today....................