Seems silly but...

[Hollyhocks]

Drop Shipping

Can't we all just ban together and start placing direct orders? What am I missing? Why do we even need the wire services? I don't get it at all!! Somebody please explain this to me. :wallhead:

 

[Chezbloom]

Proflowers openly advertises that Real brick and mortor florists send old overpriced crap. This is lie #1 Teleflora allows PF to send through the TF network and often cloaks the orders as being sent through TF headquarters lie #2. As far as I'm concerned these two companies can get stuffed. I've been saying this for three years now. And, I will not be joining any WS as they all talk out of their butts and lie through their teeth. I've seen florists go bankrupt belonging to these old antiquated outdated things called Wire Services. Where is Bloomz to tell me to shut up? Seriously, WS all suck, always will suck and, Oh yeah, um drop shipping flowers is a joke. Duh!

 

[CHR]

On a $50.00 order ProFlowers will get $32.95 (or more) with NO COG'S

They split the proceeds from WS fulfilled orders with From You Flowers so PFs net is definitely lower.

It is curious how TF Products on TF.com cost a consumer more (or less) than the very same items on PF/FU, like:

One Dz Red Roses: TF - $59.95 PF - $49.95 for the exact same item

- Will florists deliver the same item regardless of whether they received the order for $49.95 or $59.95?

- If not, is the purchaser being mislead by the image on at least on of the sites?

- Does PF/FU have to keep the price point under $50 to avoid shopping cart abandonment for the item? (my guess is 'yes')

- Would a local florist who filled the order for $49.95 offer the same price - including delivery - to their own customers? (my guess is 'no')

As long as PF/FU can find shops to deliver the items for their prices, why should they do anything differently?

 

[Hollyhocks]

CHR...good for you!! Nobody will answer me! Why are we moaning and complaining and not TAKING ACTION?!!?? Why can't we all call each other DIRECT?

 

[ourfathershou25]

Do you remember the days that it was AFS, FTD and they were only a wire service for us, now the competition is getting harder, everyone wants to be an order gather, we need help. Lets rack our BRAIN and come up with something different. We also drop ship gifts etc in our flower shop, they are usuall $100.00 etc. gifts not fresh flowers. Lets put our thinking hat on. I know we have great ideas, lets think about it and come up with some new ideas. Thanks.

 

[Chezbloom]

Hollyhocks, I suggest reading through some of the 10 zillion WS posts! Some florists are locked into WS membership because they bought POS systems. Some send a lot of orders and need a WS to "protect" against screw ups by other members etc. We are WS free and I actually HATE sending out orders but I do through Bbrooks and with my own CC. I quess Bbrooks is a WS but its small and simple. I don't use them for areas they don't have members in because they will just use TF. There is NO perfect answer. But, maybe there does'nt need to be, other than getting a decent website that is easy to find on search engines and has e-commerce of course. I was hoping Twitter would be a great way to find other florists to send out to but it hasn't yet. I've been on Flower chat over 3 years now and I've never heard one good reason yet to belong to a WS. In case you haven't noticed, they all remind me of parasites. i.e. The Cockroach, maggot etc....
Peace.

 

[Hollyhocks]

So some shops are in debt because of their POS system? But if one was still to call a florist directly instead of using a WS then where is the harm? Take the extra money you saved by not paying your percentage on the order to the WS and put it in your pocket. Why can't we call each other directly? If we are not calling each other directly because of POS systems..that is lame. What else am I missing Chez?

 

[Dior]

I know it's not financially feasible for some shops to do this, but I wish florists would pay off the balance of their POS systems they have with the wire services. Then they would NOT have to be married to them anymore, unless they wanted to. They could then switch to an independent POS, like, say, Floristware!

The way it works now is that as soon as the florist pays off the POS lease, the wire service rams another upgrade of the system down their throats and locks in their membership for another several years.

 

[sandytf]

So some shops are in debt because of their POS system? But if one was still to call a florist directly instead of using a WS then where is the harm? Take the extra money you saved by not paying your percentage on the order to the WS and put it in your pocket. Why can't we call each other directly? If we are not calling each other directly because of POS systems..that is lame. What else am I missing Chez?

If you're paying the wire service monthly fees to be a member, it doesn't make sense for you to call your orders out and use your credit card. You actually MAKE money on the outgoing orders. It's the incoming that screw you. The florist on the other end is the one who would benefit by not filling the order at a discount (which is great for that florist). Back in the day, it used to balance out with incoming and outgoing so that what you lost on the incoming orders, you gained back from the outgoing. Now, the big 3 gather their own orders from their websites and the real florist is left filling at a discount....and paying the montly fees....

P.S. Warning! Flowerchat is VERY addictive! I can tell you love it already...diving right in like I did

 

[LJVF]

Gotta love this title tag ProFlowers uses, this came up in Google search results:

This is a quote from the landing page:

San Diego flower delivery has never been easier or a better value. Unlike most San Diego florists, we work with the growers and send flowers fresh from the fields.

Link to page: http://www.proflowers.com/san-diego-flowers-sdo

 

[CHR]

Nicole....

Can the issue get any clearer than LJVF's quote?

Wanna bet Darrell's flowers are from some of the very same growers PF uses as drop shippers - and his can be to consumers in San Diego just as fast - and in better condition - than theirs are.

 

[BOSS]

Gotta love this title tag ProFlowers uses, this came up in Google search results:

And now because of Teleflora, ProFlowers now has same day delivery in San Diego that they can market.

What a crock... just goes to show ya, Teleflora is no different than FTD or 800Flowers these days...

And some florists, will simply continue to enable these companies in killing off traditional floral operations by continuing to fill "company orders" not knowing where they originate. And before Bill or anyone else counters with the bottom line profit boost argument, I'm not advocating not filling for other florists, but filling for "the company" IS counterproductive to the long term health of not only the industry but your shop as well.

Filling these orders is condoning consumer deception!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Proflowers openly advertises that Real brick and mortor florists send old overpriced crap. This is lie #1 Teleflora allows PF to send through the TF network and often cloaks the orders as being sent through TF headquarters lie #2. As far as I'm concerned these two companies can get stuffed. I've been saying this for three years now. And, I will not be joining any WS as they all talk out of their butts and lie through their teeth. I've seen florists go bankrupt belonging to these old antiquated outdated things called Wire Services. Where is Bloomz to tell me to shut up? Seriously, WS all suck, always will suck and, Oh yeah, um drop shipping flowers is a joke. Duh!

Wire services DO NOT "suck", but they certainly DO harbour some of the most prolific floral order theft rings!!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

And now because of Teleflora, ProFlowers now has same day delivery in San Diego that they can market.

What a crock... just goes to show ya, Teleflora is no different than FTD or 800Flowers these days...

And some florists, will simply continue to enable these companies in killing off traditional floral operations by continuing to fill "company orders" not knowing where they originate. And before Bill or anyone else counters with the bottom line profit boost argument, I'm not advocating not filling for other florists, but filling for "the company" IS counterproductive to the long term health of not only the industry but your shop as well.

Filling these orders is condoning consumer deception!

Nicole, it's the DECEPTION, that florists HATE the most, and your employers, ALONG WITH the "other" guys, have crossed ethical lines, AT OUR EXPENSE...and it seems that MANY of us have had enough!
Again....ANYBODY that "repairs" box flowers from a drop shipper, MORE than once, has a few screws loose!!

 

[Hollyhocks]

Sandytf....What I'm asking, again, is why use a WS at all? Why pay a membership fee (what doller amount do your incoming orders need to get to before you start filling orders in a positive doller amount? In other words, what is your membership fee? $150/month? More?) , then only get a percentage of the order, get charged transmission fees, listing fees, advertising fees, technology fees? How much money do you need to put into cogs before we start making money? When you break it down, florists are doing a lot of work for a long time for the WS companies. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have to be missing something here.

 

[kt4ye]

And before Bill or anyone else counters with the bottom line profit boost argument, I'm not advocating not filling for other florists, but filling for "the company" IS counterproductive to the long term health of not only the industry but your shop as well.

I enjoy Mark's comments because he clearly states the prevailing viewpoint of many on and off list florists.

My shop can profitably fill properly screened wire orders, whether they originate from OGs, Teleflora or another REAL florist. So, here is talking point #1:

1. If your shop cannot profitably fill incoming wire orders, then you should probably not be in a wire service. This is because there are more economical ways to send flowers florist-to-florist.

My shop has tried not filling otherwise profitable OG/TF orders "out of principle." We have learned that the sender will simply move on to another local florist. So, unless your shop is "the only game in town," here is talking point #2

2. The "hole" that you will make in an OG's fulfillment effort is the same size as the hole you leave in a bucket of water when you withdraw your hand from it.

My shop has attempted to "organize" local florists to refuse these orders. I had as much success doing that as I had the last time I tried to herd some cats. So, talking point #3 is:

3. As long as there is even ONE florist in a community that will accept OG orders, any boycott will fail.

Filling these orders is condoning consumer deception!

My shop long ago recognized that most OG ads are misleading and many are downright deceptive. But NONE of them were illegal. So, working in concert with other florists (who REALLY DID ALL THE WORK!), the C of C of Durham (Charlotte's C of C couldn't care less. They are all tied up with the banks and NASCAR.) and the NC State legislature we crafted legislation with TEETH in it. It becomes effective Oct 1. On Oct. 1, we are going to send the Attorney General's office multiple requests for prosecution under this new statute. And we will continue to do so until the internet and the "Yellow" directories are free of deceptive advertising.

So talking point 4 is,

4. Stop compaining and take action to have these deceptive advertisers labeled for what they should be: ILLEGAL.

Meanwhile, those florists that wish to, can continue to waste their time in actions that are like peeing in a dark blue suit: "Warm, and satisfying, and nobody notices very much."

All the best, Bill

 

[BOSS]

Nice post Bill....

For the record, I never said (I don't think) that filling these orders could not be done profitably...

For me it's an ethical decision to not assist in the continued rip off of consumer dollars and industry profits. I have organized my business to not need the incremental (minuscule) pennies per order generated by these gathered orders.

I truly believe that in the long run, if a shop does not wean itself off the order gatherer tit, that it will eventually work itself into a position of not being able to sustain itself when these orders move from one wire service to the next that you may not be a member of.

Bill, I will be watching come October 1 to see if these "teeth" have any real affect on the continued deception in advertising in your state. I know how much work has gone into this as I hear from Jon and Bea often and I thank you for your continued work in this area. It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Flowerchatter03]

So some shops are in debt because of their POS system? But if one was still to call a florist directly instead of using a WS then where is the harm? Take the extra money you saved by not paying your percentage on the order to the WS and put it in your pocket. Why can't we call each other directly? If we are not calling each other directly because of POS systems..that is lame. What else am I missing Chez?

Hollyhocks having a wire service and their POS system is more complicated that it seems. There are a number of reasons why you would wire out through your WS while you are involved, especially when you have the POS system. Off the top of my head:

1. When you wire out a certain number of orders, you get a lower processing fee on your credit card processing. That is for all orders you process through your system, wire outs, carry outs, local deliveries, etc.

2. Rebates...when you wire out a certain amount over what you did last year, you get a rebate check back.

3. If you don't wire out a certain number, you get slammed with a low sending fee.

4. In the case of FTD, the more involved you are with their company, the better interaction you get from them as far as perks and benefits.

The whole process of wire services are much more complicated than just not sending, especially when your entire multi thousand dollar computer system is involved.

No 2 businesses are alike. There are some flower shops that actually benefit from having wire services. While this is not the case in every FS, it is the responsibility of each business owner to research why they have this service (just like any other business decision) and if it works for them or against them.

It is also the business owners responsibility to educate themselves regarding any business they choose to become involved with. If you have a wire service, you should know who owns them, what is their mission statement and business plan, how to they obtain customers, how they handle problems, exactly what you are paying for and why. etc. etc.

 

[lori042499]

Sandytf....What I'm asking, again, is why use a WS at all? Why pay a membership fee (what doller amount do your incoming orders need to get to before you start filling orders in a positive doller amount? In other words, what is your membership fee? $150/month? More?) , then only get a percentage of the order, get charged transmission fees, listing fees, advertising fees, technology fees? How much money do you need to put into cogs before we start making money? When you break it down, florists are doing a lot of work for a long time for the WS companies. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have to be missing something here.

Hollyhocks, some do it because that is all they know, some do it because it was the only way to finance their computer system, so did it because they needed a web presence, some do it because they send hundreds and hundreds of wireouts a month and need a good network and a seemless high speed delivery, there are many, many reasons that many use a ws. Some it works real good for, others break even, some are on the edge of giving it all up....if it doesn't work for your shop, good on you for realizing it and going with a different approach....that is what business is all about, figuring out what works for you and what doesn't....as far as we all boycotting the WS orders, good luck getting that one organized, I give you a month before you are ready to throw your hands up and dealing with your fellow florist and getting organized, we have all been there and tried, it is like herding cats, maybe even harder..

 

[sandytf]

Sandytf....What I'm asking, again, is why use a WS at all? Why pay a membership fee (what doller amount do your incoming orders need to get to before you start filling orders in a positive doller amount? In other words, what is your membership fee? $150/month? More?) , then only get a percentage of the order, get charged transmission fees, listing fees, advertising fees, technology fees? How much money do you need to put into cogs before we start making money? When you break it down, florists are doing a lot of work for a long time for the WS companies. It doesn't make any sense to me. I have to be missing something here.

I was not debating the value of having a WS or not....I was commenting on using your cc to send your orders out if you already belong to a WS.

If you're already paying the fees, etc and filling WS orders, it's going to hurt your bottom line to then go ahead and send out your orders with a credit card....because that is how you CAN make money on the WS.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying....