sending only

[TOTO]

Great synopsis Cathy!

Ladies -

It's not that florists here at FC don't care. I perceive us as falling into four basic groups:

1) Old timers with a sense of fairness to consumers and fellow florists. Don't ask or expect another florist to do what you wouldn't do. Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't promise things you can't deliver. In short, pretend like it's 'business as usual' circa 1990.

2) The 'If I can make money at it and it's legal' then what's the problem?' group. They have business ethics and have recognized that selling is far more profitable than filling. In fact, they recognize filling as a losing proposition and have decided to stop or highly curtail handling incomings at all. From a strictly financial standpoint, this group actually makes the most business sense. They think many members of Group #1 aren't really on top the game yet, but they still want them to fill their orders to perfection with top quality flowers, exceptional customer service and a prompt delivery confirmation.

3) The filling shops that take nearly any and every incoming order regardless of value or potential profitability, including the orders refused by Group #1. Many are unaware of or don't care about dOGs or SFOs. Some tell themselves how great it is to be busy filling incomings right up until the day they close their doors. How many times have we seen that here?

4) The 'I don't need a wire service' group that refuses to participate in the traditional FTD-TF-BloomNet system. Today, they might be the least frustrated, most sane group in FlowerChat. :>

Group #1 has no recourse (except refusal - which actually costs them money) when a Group #2 florist sends an order. The order will eventually end up somewhere in Group #3 and there's no convincing those stores that filling such an order can be unhealthy for their business. Some could care less about the industry in general, some just take the orders to rotate out product, and others don't understand the mathematics of incoming orders in specific.

Group #4 shrugs at these conversations wondering why anyone would give another florist's a 30%+ discount and wouldn't do the same for their very best customers.

There's no longer any shock value to any of this... more just quiet resignation that market distortions enabled by wire services make commerce more difficult for companies in Group #1.

Group #2 gets financially stronger and group #3 gets replaced with new, optimistic, business-challenged florists every few years. And so it goes....

Too bad we can't educate the folks in group 3 to stop acting as enablers for all of the middlemen. Should that ever happen, the CANCER they have become would go into remission and perhaps, just DISAPPEAR. Might be the group 3 folks are just so busy (SPINNING THEIR WHEELS) they have no time to be a FC user or reader, ey?

 

[lori042499]

Ladies -

It's not that florists here at FC don't care. I perceive us as falling into four basic groups:

1) Old timers with a sense of fairness to consumers and fellow florists. Don't ask or expect another florist to do what you wouldn't do. Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't promise things you can't deliver. In short, pretend like it's 'business as usual' circa 1990.

2) The 'If I can make money at it and it's legal' then what's the problem?' group. They have business ethics and have recognized that selling is far more profitable than filling. In fact, they recognize filling as a losing proposition and have decided to stop or highly curtail handling incomings at all. From a strictly financial standpoint, this group actually makes the most business sense. They think many members of Group #1 aren't really on top the game yet, but they still want them to fill their orders to perfection with top quality flowers, exceptional customer service and a prompt delivery confirmation.

3) The filling shops that take nearly any and every incoming order regardless of value or potential profitability, including the orders refused by Group #1. Many are unaware of or don't care about dOGs or SFOs. Some tell themselves how great it is to be busy filling incomings right up until the day they close their doors. How many times have we seen that here?

4) The 'I don't need a wire service' group that refuses to participate in the traditional FTD-TF-BloomNet system. Today, they might be the least frustrated, most sane group in FlowerChat. :>

Group #1 has no recourse (except refusal - which actually costs them money) when a Group #2 florist sends an order. The order will eventually end up somewhere in Group #3 and there's no convincing those stores that filling such an order can be unhealthy for their business. Some could care less about the industry in general, some just take the orders to rotate out product, and others don't understand the mathematics of incoming orders in specific.

Group #4 shrugs at these conversations wondering why anyone would give another florist's a 30%+ discount and wouldn't do the same for their very best customers.

There's no longer any shock value to any of this... more just quiet resignation that market distortions enabled by wire services make commerce more difficult for companies in Group #1.

Group #2 gets financially stronger and group #3 gets replaced with new, optimistic, business-challenged florists every few years. And so it goes....

I am not really sure where I fit in these catagories. Can I possibly be somewhere in the middle? I have taken a shop that was struggling very hard with no wireservices and no technology into a paying for itself technologized florist with thriving and growing business that is profitable in a year and a half by adding 2 wire services. I am smart about what I take and who I take them from. If I can't make money, I don't accept the order. I under no circumstances take away from my locals to service wireins. I do not take wireins from the most offensive DOG's.

So I am not sure where I fit in. Maybe I am a FWOAC, but I doubt it I think I am a FWAP(florist with a plan). Everyone needs to atrt somewhere and I think I have made a wizbang start for myself...

 

[Jerry]

Oh Cathy, there you go again spuing the TRUTH around. I swear you have more common sense in your little finger then 99.99999999% of anyone I know.

I will say the peace and serenity that goes with being in group 4 is just worth waking up in the morning. IMHO, being in group 4 also lets a florist think outside the box alot easier than being all caught up in the mess.

I have always felt, if I was not going into ordergathering, then I have no need to be involved with any of it. I love to play poker, but I also know when the deck is stacked against me.

Thanks for that well thought out post.

 

[Chezbloom]

As a proud and happy member of group 4, I am still very interested in these conversations because what the DOG, OGs etc do still hurts all florists, especially those in group 3. Oh well, C'est la vie!

 

[lenwlod]

Thanks Cathy for putting into words a way we can evaluate ourselves. Having only been active on this board for a few months the one thing I can say I have taken from it is that I have looked at my business more from the "outside" than before.
That being said, I have to honestly say I am like Lori, a blend of a couple of groups. Having owned our business for 20 years I can definitely say that I think like an "old-timer" alot and realize that unless we change we will not be around for too long. I am working myself out of group 3...we are only in one wire service now and probably do not have to be in that one either. I do not want to be a group 2 and I guess I still don't have the guts to pull the trigger and fall into group 4.

Again I thank everyone on this board for trying to help all of us survive in this business.

 

[fairfield]

4) The 'I don't need a wire service' group that refuses to participate in the traditional FTD-TF-BloomNet system. Today, they might be the least frustrated, most sane group in FlowerChat. :>

Group #4 shrugs at these conversations wondering why anyone would give another florist's a 30%+ discount and wouldn't do the same for their very best customers.

There's no longer any shock value to any of this... more just quiet resignation that market distortions enabled by wire services make commerce more difficult for companies in Group #1.

There is no shock value left because everyone has chosen their path... Now it is a "wait and see who closes" game. There are many florists out there waiting for, and wanting, other shops to close thinking that is the key to their own survival. Every year at this time, the conversation takes on a "It's only a matter of time" tone. I think the world stopped believing "The world is going to end on..." back in the early '80s and yet, that is the current mantra for many florists. There is so much apathy for conversation about the industry as a whole that the whole industry is in trouble. Consumers have been turning their backs to florists and instead of florists holding themselves accountable and working to fix this, they turned to the WS for more orders.

Group #4 is made up of florists that, for whatever reason, have identified the WS BS and cannot or do not want to be involved with them. Some do not want to be involved with the sending/receiving florist business at all. This is now very feasible with the internet and is even very desirable for some given the facts on receiving skimmers. Some florists just want to be the best local business and not be involved in the sending business.

As a proud and happy member of group 4, I am still very interested in these conversations because what the DOG, OGs etc do still hurts all florists, especially those in group 3. Oh well, C'est la vie!

This is the truth. It is not a blissful existence in group #4 because it does hurt all florists. Group #4 is just as susceptible to consumers buying something other than flowers for the funeral or DIYers or gas prices, etc. It is also a little tough to experience growth one month and none the next while the WS shops are delivering OG orders all day long. What a lot of wasted energy!



Sane??? Convert group #3 and watch group #2 go away... That would bring sanity into the equation.

And as far as SFO's are concerned, I don't see a mad dash for that status. I think there will be some, but it will be some of the larger volume group #1's that want the $$$.

Remember, it's a business decision...

JMO

 

[bloomz]

I sleep well knowing I am in group one.

I too don't see any mad dash towards group 2 and I know many of those top 100's that sometimes get accused of it. I'm surprised that someone like Carol was talking abut that doesn't just take Toto's advice (I do) and forward all the junk to the bottom feeders that want the crap orders - and there be plenty of them group 3's indeedy.

 

[carol]

I sleep well knowing I am in group one.

I too don't see any mad dash towards group 2 and I know many of those top 100's that sometimes get accused of it. I'm surprised that someone like Carol was talking abut that doesn't just take Toto's advice (I do) and forward all the junk to the bottom feeders that want the crap orders - and there be plenty of them group 3's indeedy.

Actually I do.. and I hope she/they choke on them... According to what I heard about Jacques that was the jist of the top 100's advice. If I could for to the local grocery store I would but don't think they have a merc and I'll be dam# if I will do a reject.
There is a difference in the dues structure for sending only.. not sure what it is but since they do not have to pay for extra listings, or QA or some other thinks I'm thinking it is less than the rest of us..because after all they help us all by gathering the orders and sending them to us.!

PS I like the idea of forwarding it to texas or washington.. it is nasty tho' and just creates work for that florist.. can't send it back to a sending only florist..

 

[dalmation4646]

Well Trudi... from the response to Jacques intro thread http://www.flowerchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12051
it seems no one cares much.
FTD top 100 shops (senders) are treated to wonderful resort vacations and seminars on how to be more successful and it seems the new montra is to become sending only.. take only the good parts and scre# the rest.

Since no one from Jacques seemed even slightly interested in this forum until I brought up their sending only change.. and in fact no one from this shop has bothered to post anything..except their intro. post to allow them to see that string I guess they really don't care either.

I have a policy that I do not accept orders from sending shops because there is no way I can benefit from them so why should I allow them to benefit from me. Not a big deal in the scheme of things since there are 4 other shops in my town that will fill for them. So in the long run what I think and do has no impact on this new method of screwing the small shops.. but at least I can sleep at night without needing a stiff drink.

Thanks for sticking to your guns .... and I can say that I can sleep too!
Trudy

 

[sfox]

Genie

I'm on a roll, never having posted here before & finally figuring out how to do it.
Yesterday I received (merc)an order from Just Flowers--sending only.
$39.99--delivered way out on a rural route for lilies, roses, etc, etc
Not wanting to reject because that would cost me, I called their 800 number, told the operator it was grossly underpriced & we couldn't do it for less than $50--even that was a stretch. He said, ok, I'll send you a can. I was really surprised he didn't try to talk me into doing it. I am the only FTD shop within 30 miles --question--are they also TF?? My competitor is TF

When we get an ordergatherer order, we send a INQUIRY(Tel) or ASK(Ftd) Message stating please send a cancelation. The ball is then in their court. We care less whether they respond or not.

 

[bloomz]

Fox, according to what FTD has told me more than once now - the only way to not pay the FTO fee is to FORward it. Even if they CAN you still pay the FTO.

I suggest Mexico City.

 

[carol]

Yeah Jon, it sounds good, gets it off you desk.. but you just pass the problem along to another florist.. Now I guess it there is someone in Mexico City that you hate then what the hey!.. I mean if I just forward all these stupid orders to your shop in Oregon for delivery in NH.. then you have to stop what you are doing and pass the order along somewhere else.
I used to forward it to domestic retrans but sometimes they would resend it to me.. more wasted time.. so now I just send it to the local FWOAC and forget about it. When/if they go out of business then I guess I will have to come up with another strategy..

 

[bloomz]

.. so now I just send it to the local FWOAC and forget about it. When/if they go out of business then I guess I will have to come up with another strategy..

That's what I've been doing actually for a long time now and I noticed in the last month or so the forwards keep rejecting - so I am guessing they quit FTD.

I only did the Mexico City one once when they just would not stop sending me skimmed orders, no matter what message I sent with the forwards. I later realized they don't even see the messages you send with the FOR.

It worked - for a while, but now they're appearing again with that other shop's merc not working. So now I'm forwarding them to the fwoac in the asb city.

 

[BOSS]

can't send it back to a sending only florist..

Actually.....

You can FORward Flowerssenttoday.com, and their other names, orders back to Karin's Flowers...same family

 

[carol]

Actually.....

You can FORward Flowerssenttoday.com, and their other names, orders back to Karin's Flowers...same family

I like that! what goes round comes round. great idea
lol

 

[bloomz]

Actually.....

You can FORward Flowerssenttoday.com, and their other names, orders back to Karin's Flowers...same family

That's how I got them to stop sending us orders finally.

 

[goldfish]

Before I puchased this flower shop, my profession was totally different. In fact, I'd spent my entire career (over 20 yrs) in that profession (which I'm not going to tell :tongue: )

When you spend that much time and energy in a single profession, the distinction between your porfession and your life becomes non-existent. When something bad was going on in my profession in general, I took it personally.

Eventually, it became so bad so that the harder I tried to do the "right thing," the more I got punished for it. The choice became between a honorable loser or despicable winner, at least that's how I felt. So eventually I quit altogether, the decision that I cannot afford to regret at this point.

So even though I am a newbie in this industry, I can actually see the frustration that some experienced florists must be feeling. On the other hand, compared to some other professional areas that I happen to know about, this industry, though highly competitive, hasn't reached the point where cheaters are almost guarantted to trounce the honorable. This industry isn't that bad.

It is true that if you don't lie or cheat, you might be in disadvantage even in this industry. But I suspect it's not totally fatal. You can't say that in certain other profession.

So I guess my point is that almost in any profession, people with dignity will suffer to some extent. If you are hoping that people, particularly newbies like me, feel the same way you old-timers do about the current status of this industry, you will be very disappointed.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

cheaters are almost guaranteed to trounce the honorable[/I]. This industry isn't that bad.

It is true that if you don't lie or cheat, you might be in disadvantage even in this industry. But I suspect it's not totally fatal. You can't say that in certain other profession.

So I guess my point is that almost in any profession, people with dignity will suffer to some extent. If you are hoping that people, particularly newbies like me, feel the same way you old-timers do about the current status of this industry, you will be very disappointed.

You HAVE To admit, though, it took someone like Cathy, with all her years of living flowers, to lay this out in such a thoughtful, powerful ,and provocative manner!!:thumbsup

 

[goldfish]

You HAVE To admit, though, it took someone like Cathy, with all her years of living flowers, to lay this out in such a thoughtful, powerful ,and provocative manner!!:thumbsup

I fully admit that. Cathy is exceptional. She is my MVP (most valuable poster). :nod:

I just wanted to remind people that how wonderful this profession (florist) actually is, despite all the rumbling I see here everyday. You know what kills the passion for a particular profession? Politics. When you see your competitors "succeeding" not because of his/her professional merit, but because of politics, now that's very hard to swallow. Even harder, when this guy becomes your boss and treats you like a piece of trash. Hopefully that won't happen as long as I am a small biz owner.

 

[kt4ye]

When we get an ordergatherer order, we send a INQUIRY(Tel) or ASK(Ftd) Message stating please send a cancelation. The ball is then in their court. We care less whether they respond or not.

We often use a variation on this theme. We send an INQ or ASK for a SUBSTANTIAL price increase. Usually, we get a Cancellation. Occasionally (miracle of miracles) we get the price increase.

But the real problem is the sending bonus. This bonus adds $5 per order to the bottom line of all the independent OGs. It is a MAJOR source of their profitability. But how many of us have pestered our WS rep for this change? Why not?

Bill