Teleflora New Fees?

[Robin]

For the longest time, and I take the fault here...,we were being double-billed thru TF and FTD...because I was having others reconcile, my fine-tooth comb was in my purse!
Couldn't get it back, of course, but I won't pay them anymore, either.

 

[BOSS]

Couldn't get it back, of course, but I won't pay them anymore, either.

Did you explain this to SAF? If so, and they would not refund... see my earlier comment about ethics.

 

[bloomz]

So I'm hearing from a few here that they would join if SAF would just go ahead and commit financial suicide.

They're not perfect but they're still the best we have. Who else promotes flowers - the wire services?

 

[Chezbloom]

Where it be?

Where would I find SAF promoting flowers? I'm not denying that they do I'm just wondering. I mean, how does SAF let Joe the Plumber know about the benefits of flower buying? I think I'm missing something. But then I don't think I'm the average consumer and may not be paying attention as I should. Obviously Canadian TF/FTD florists are not charged a SAF membership fee right?

 

[prestonway]

Where would I find SAF promoting flowers? I'm not denying that they do I'm just wondering. I mean, how does SAF let Joe the Plumber know about the benefits of flower buying? I think I'm missing something. But then I don't think I'm the average consumer and may not be paying attention as I should. Obviously Canadian TF/FTD florists are not charged a SAF membership fee right?

Wrong.

Interesting too...as Canada doesn't allow for "opt-out" billing.

And since we didn't specifically request membership???

But as usual...WTFDIK?

 

[bloomz]

Where would I find SAF promoting flowers? I'm not denying that they do I'm just wondering. I mean, how does SAF let Joe the Plumber know about the benefits of flower buying? I think I'm missing something. But then I don't think I'm the average consumer and may not be paying attention as I should. Obviously Canadian TF/FTD florists are not charged a SAF membership fee right?

I'm not sure where to show you but those studies discussed on http://www.aboutflowers.com get lots of nationwide press, for one thing.

I've seen somewhere how many impressions but don't remember where.

The only other nationwide advertising I know of are by the wire services FOR the wire services.

 

[Bigted]

I would want SAF to represent real florists only, get rid of order gatherers falsely advertising, reprimand wire services charging unjustifiable fees, educate the general public to buy flowers from SAF members only; etc. The last useful thing I got from SAF was a poster that cost $4.99 plus delivery that doesn't make my $240 yearly membership fee go very far.
Sorry, I am bitter, I just had enough of the charges I get opted-in without me having the right to say anything at first.

Not going to happen. They need the money to keep going and it ain't coming from the florists. I agree that we are the driving force of this industry, but they need the money and I guarantee they aren't going to launch a campaign against the WS and OGs. For that matter, neither is flowerchat. It's just how the world works.

My gripe against SAF is the annual conventions. They really are way too expensive for the average florist. They need to scale them down abit so mom and pop can attend.

 

[Mark Anderson]

I was thinking about the numbers this morning. The real tragedy/irony here is that the wire services get to use florists' money to pressure SAF to advance their own agenda.

Let's say there are 10,000 real florists that pay $19.95 each month to SAF through their wire service. That means that - aside from any contribution of their own - the wire services have control over an annual donation of almost two and a half million dollars! That gives them a lot of power. The SAF needs that money and even though the florists are the ones supplying it the wire services are the ones that control the tap.

It makes me think that paying dues independently of your wire service membership is even more important. There are some really great people who work for SAF and even more who are incredibly dedicated volunteers. It's definitely worth trying to fix.

P.S. What happens to shops that belong to two wire services - are they paying for two memberships?

 

[BOSS]

They're not perfect but they're still the best we have.

Sometimes, nothing is better than "something".....

I was thinking about the numbers this morning. The real tragedy/irony here is that the wire services get to use florists' money to pressure SAF to advance their own agenda.

Yep, ain't it something.....florists are paying to have someone lobby against their best interests.

I've said it before, SAF *should* be the international organization that fights deception on behalf of both florists and consumers alike...sadly they are impotent when it comes to issues that truly are killing this industry. Yes, immigration reform is important, but it really only affects a small portion of the membership, yet it seems to be SAF's key focus year after year.

Oh what the heck, SAF's not listening, and really could care what I think I'm sure... I'm an enemy combatant far as they're concerned.

 

[bloomz]

I don't *think* they get to use our money as power - I believe they just collect it.

They give pretty fair chunks of their own money to get that power.

Which of course someone's gonna say all came from us - (tho it doesn't).

Boss - Why would nothing be better than something??? - can you point to them damaging us in some way?

That's beyond ridiculous amigo.


enemy combatant? sheesh.....that's beyond beyond

I meed coffee.

Always nice to wake up to some ridiculosity ala flowerchat.....makes the world go round

Motorcycle ride thru he mountains today - yeah

 

[BOSS]

Maybe later I'll continue this debate Jon... I'm on the boat, heading out Walleye fishing...

Have a nice ride....

 

[sandytf]

I would want SAF to represent real florists only, get rid of order gatherers falsely advertising, reprimand wire services charging unjustifiable fees, educate the general public to buy flowers from SAF members only; etc. The last useful thing I got from SAF was a poster that cost $4.99 plus delivery that doesn't make my $240 yearly membership fee go very far.
Sorry, I am bitter, I just had enough of the charges I get opted-in without me having the right to say anything at first.

Wake up call!!!

Let me start by saying you should absolutely spend your money in ways that give you value and that is everyone's own decision to make. I also chose this particular post to quote, but there were others I could have used as well.

If you want an organization to represent "real florists" only, then I would suggest you start organizing. How can anyone say in one breath that they do not support an organization and then in another breath say they would like that organization to represent them only?

It appears to me that a lot of "real florists" think that they are the center of the floral universe. In reality, the traditional B&M florists are dropping like flies. The vast majority are not the progressive leaders in the industry. I see so many posts about how we need to educate consumers about order gatherers-that they are just ignorant and would all order from "real florists" if they only knew the raw deal they were getting. Guess what? All the consumers out there aren't idiots! They make their own decisions about where to spend their own money. Perhaps the percieved benefits of ordering from ProFlowers, FTD.com, etc outweigh the percieved benefits of ordering from a real florist? I also see a lot of posts from florists on Flowerchat who have had horrible experiences ordering flowers from other real florists. Real florists can give a customer a horrible flower buying experience just as well as ProFlowers can.

To set the record straight, I consider myself a "real florist" myself (even though the fact that we are located in a supermarket apparently makes us NOT in the opinion of many). I am pro-real florist. I am not a fan of order gatherers or boxed flowers. I also don't think everything is ever totally black and white. There is always a lot of gray area.

Living in a dream world of "how it should or could be" vs. how it really is isn't helping any of us. If we want things to change, we need to put our money where our mouth is and be the ones out there making those changes. I see many here on Flowerchat doing that. Adam is one. Dazeal is another. There are a number of fabulous florists here who used to operate from a store front and are now operating out of a studio because it is a better business model for them. They have seen the industry change and are changing along with it. It just seems like there is a prevailing attitude that if you aren't the type of florist who fits into a very narrow definition (and an outdated definition in my opinion) then you aren't really worthy. I say this as a grocery store "real" florist who is often treated like a second class citizen at industry events, etc.

I guess in the end, it's the customer's $ that will decide. And so far, it's not looking so good for the B&M florist.

P.S. sorry for getting off topic but felt I had to respond somehow

 

[bloomz]

Wake up call!!!

It appears to me that a lot of "real florists" think that they are the center of the floral universe. In reality, the traditional B&M florists are dropping like flies. The vast majority are not the progressive leaders in the industry. I see so many posts about how we need to educate consumers about order gatherers-that they are just ignorant and would all order from "real florists" if they only knew the raw deal they were getting. Guess what? All the consumers out there aren't idiots! They make their own decisions about where to spend their own money.

Excellent post and points.

And the part I quoted is where I was going the other day with my parallels with the US Auto Industry.

Educating consumers, pteuey - they don't need to stinking education - it's their money. It's we florists that need to learn from them.

We getting our lunch eaten while we discuss "educating consumers" and boycotting OGs.::BS

 

[Mark Anderson]

I don't *think* they get to use our money as power - I believe they just collect it.

Collecting it is enough. Between the two services that offer the bundled SAF membership they collect and remit probably one to three million dollars annually. They could turn that tap off at any time and SAF can't afford to lose that revenue. That gives them a lot of power.

If SAF took a stance that really alienated the wire services it would be easy for the services to stop collecting/remitting (or just redirect the money to some kind of new marketing fund). It would be difficult if not impossible for SAF to go out and then re-sign 10K+ individual shops to make up the shortfall. Honestly Jon - if this approach didn't benefit the wire services why would they possibly do it?

Maybe the solution is changing the way SAF revenue is consolidated. Right now you have a handful of companies that probably control the bulk of the revenue by collecting and remitting it and also adding a bunch of their own money. Then you have importers and wholesalers making big contributions (thereby getting action on things like immigration reform).

Finally you have some real florists making relatively small (in the bigger sense) individual contributions. They (and the real florists that pay through the wire service programs) don't really get a voice.

Maybe the answer is for real florists to try and consolidate the revenue that they send to the SAF so that they can demand more attention. Instead of paying through wire services they should band together and pay through a "real florists" (or even FlowerChat!) group. They then get a bigger voice.

I still believe that SAF has a lot to offer and that constructively trying to influence their direction is far, far more productive than trying to topple and/or replace them with something entirely new.

 

[NPFloral]

SAF *should* be the voice of retailers, wholesalers, nurserymen and more, but they should not be condoning the deceptive practices prevalent in the industry today.

Lets take a look at what the acronym stands for:

S - Society (of)
A - American
F - FLORISTS

Wholesalers, nurserymen, Wire Services, Farms, Importers... NONE of these are FLORISTS.

So to me... the SAF (in it's current form) are money wh*res, not some dreamy society that helps Florists and expects us to be grateful.

Sorry.... B*tchy day....

Tim - North Port Floral

 

[Mark Anderson]

So to me... the SAF (in it's current form) are money wh*res, not some dreamy society that helps Florists and expects us to be grateful.

I understand the frustration but that is not fair. There are hardworking real florists (some of them on this board) who do meaningful volunteer work for SAF. They give generously of their time and resources to help make positive change.

As for the organization as a whole the worst thing you could say is that they are guilty of supporting their supporters. Think about it - the wire services must have gone to them and said "hey - we can help you out by promoting SAF membership to our members."

Like Bloomz said making big changes (the kind that would alienate wire service support) would be financial suicide. Is SAF really supposed to do that in the hopes that florists would appreciate this grand gesture and then join them independently?

 

[duanermb]

Wake up call!!!

If you want an organization to represent "real florists" only, then I would suggest you start organizing. How can anyone say in one breath that they do not support an organization and then in another breath say they would like that organization to represent them only?

It appears to me that a lot of "real florists" think that they are the center of the floral universe. In reality, the traditional B&M florists are dropping like flies. The vast majority are not the progressive leaders in the industry. I see so many posts about how we need to educate consumers about order gatherers-that they are just ignorant and would all order from "real florists" if they only knew the raw deal they were getting. Guess what? All the consumers out there aren't idiots! They make their own decisions about where to spend their own money. Perhaps the perceived benefits of ordering from ProFlowers, FTD.com, etc outweigh the perceived benefits of ordering from a real florist? I also see a lot of posts from florists on Flowerchat who have had horrible experiences ordering flowers from other real florists. Real florists can give a customer a horrible flower buying experience just as well as ProFlowers can.

To set the record straight, I consider myself a "real florist" myself (even though the fact that we are located in a supermarket apparently makes us NOT in the opinion of many). I am pro-real florist. I am not a fan of order gatherers or boxed flowers. I also don't think everything is ever totally black and white. There is always a lot of gray area.

I guess in the end, it's the customer's $ that will decide. And so far, it's not looking so good for the B&M florist.

Great post. Emphasis here is mine.

1. It does appear that many florists believe they are the center of the universe, and it is just not the case. Customers define that and no one else.

2. Customers out there aren't idiots is exactly the case. They, as a whole are smart, seek value and good service. They define what we need to be, not us.

3. I consider you a real florist, because the consumers consider you a real florist. You can't define who your competition is, unless you are on the high upper end of florists. 99% of us here, and throughout the market are not. The consumer has defined supermarket florists as florists.

If you don't know who and where your competition is, you will not succeed in competing against them. Sometimes the truth hurts.

Again. Great post.

 

[Chezbloom]

Oh lordy, I feel another amen coming,

"If you don't know who and where your competition is, you will not succeed in competing against them. Sometimes the truth hurts."

Spot on, my savvy floral brother.

 

[NPFloral]

I understand the frustration but that is not fair. There are hardworking real florists (some of them on this board) who do meaningful volunteer work for SAF. They give generously of their time and resources to help make positive change.

As for the organization as a whole the worst thing you could say is that they are guilty of supporting their supporters. Think about it - the wire services must have gone to them and said "hey - we can help you out by promoting SAF membership to our members."

Like Bloomz said making big changes (the kind that would alienate wire service support) would be financial suicide. Is SAF really supposed to do that in the hopes that florists would appreciate this grand gesture and then join them independently?

Firstly, I didn't even mention the volunteers. I was talking specifically about the SAF's alignment with non-florists. Period.

Secondly, I like your phrase "financial suicide". So you actually hit my nail on the head, eh?

If the SAF TRULY cared about the everyday Florist, they would use their clout to help change the WS model (not PROMOTE it) so WS could actually BENFIT Florists, not drain them of funds, and then USE those funds to compete against us.

I dunno.. I certainly don't have all the answers but I do know that as long as the SAF allows WS members, I will not join.

Tim - North Port Floral

 

[BOSS]

We getting our lunch eaten while we discuss boycotting OGs.::BS

That's cuz most are continuing to enable them!