Teleflora New Fees?

[BOSS]

Lets take a look at what the acronym stands for:

S - Society (of)
A - American
F - FLORISTS

Wholesalers, nurserymen, Wire Services, Farms, Importers... NONE of these are FLORISTS.

So to me... the SAF (in it's current form) are money wh*res, not some dreamy society that helps Florists and expects us to be grateful.

I agree, but would think that SAF could better survive by diversification, and that wholesalers, importers and growers are the backbone support to the local florist.

Time to let the money talk to SAF... I'm taking my marbles and going elsewhere. I tried the pay to have the right to @@@@@ for a few years, did not work, did not even get their attention. Time to pull the plug.

 

[Tom Carlson]

I was thinking about the numbers this morning. The real tragedy/irony here is that the wire services get to use florists' money to pressure SAF to advance their own agenda.

Let's say there are 10,000 real florists that pay $19.95 each month to SAF through their wire service. That means that - aside from any contribution of their own - the wire services have control over an annual donation of almost two and a half million dollars! That gives them a lot of power. The SAF needs that money and even though the florists are the ones supplying it the wire services are the ones that control the tap.

It makes me think that paying dues independently of your wire service membership is even more important. There are some really great people who work for SAF and even more who are incredibly dedicated volunteers. It's definitely worth trying to fix.

P.S. What happens to shops that belong to two wire services - are they paying for two memberships?

Isn't the money collected by the WS paid in behalf of the independent florist and that the Wire Services pay a fee specifically for the W.S?

I would assume SAF's membership revenue sources are from
a. retail florists
b. wire services
c. growers
d. wholesalers
e. importers
f. acedemics

And it would be nice to know how much each segment is paying
My guess is that the retailer is the most revenue

BUT when SAF combines membership fees with advertising revenue, the picture changes a lot. Retailers probably pay very little in advertising fees.

So if SAF alienated the Wire Service, their advertising revenue would be severly impacted.

In my opinion, that is why the retailer is poorly represented. I would love to be proved wrong.

Come on SAF, if you can't tell us your revenue sources, then TELL US WHY.

Tom Carlson

 

[bloomz]

My guess is if they eliminated the wire services revenue they would be out of business.

 

[KABERS]

I'm pretty sure I pay 26.95 to saf on my ftd statement. again -DO I HAVE SUCKER WRITTEN ON MY FACE?

 

[Violet Watkins]

IN REPLY TO YOUR POST,
WE ARE A MEMBER OF TELEFLORA ONLY, AND THE LAST 4 MONTHS OUT OF 6 WE HAVE BEEN CHARGED A TOTAL OF $597.87 RECIPROCITY. wE HAVE SEEN OUR TELEFLORA REP IN OVER A YEAR, HER E-MAIL ADDRESS IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE THROUGH TELEFLORA INFO, I E-MAILED TELEFLORA WITH NO RESPONSE. I HAVE A LETTER IN THE MAIL. WE ARE A SMALL TOWN OF 65,000. WE HAVE 7 OTHER FLORIST IN TOWN. HOW DO THEY JUSTIFY THESE FEES?

VIOLET
GREENWOOD FLOWER SHOP

 

[BOSS]

HOW DO THEY JUSTIFY THESE FEES?

VIOLET
GREENWOOD FLOWER SHOP

Cuz folks just keep paying them.... simple as that...

 

[Dior]

IN REPLY TO YOUR POST,
WE ARE A MEMBER OF TELEFLORA ONLY, AND THE LAST 4 MONTHS OUT OF 6 WE HAVE BEEN CHARGED A TOTAL OF $597.87 RECIPROCITY. wE HAVE SEEN OUR TELEFLORA REP IN OVER A YEAR, HER E-MAIL ADDRESS IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE THROUGH TELEFLORA INFO, I E-MAILED TELEFLORA WITH NO RESPONSE. I HAVE A LETTER IN THE MAIL. WE ARE A SMALL TOWN OF 65,000. WE HAVE 7 OTHER FLORIST IN TOWN. HOW DO THEY JUSTIFY THESE FEES?

VIOLET
GREENWOOD FLOWER SHOP

Violet, please find out who the Regional VP of your field rep is. She probably got layed off, there was a big layoff a while ago there. Call the regional VP and tell him/her that you are Teleflora only, and are sending everything you have only through them, not FTD or Bloomnet. Demand that the reciprocity charges be refunded/waived. Unless there is a new policy recently, I was ALWAYS able to get the low send fees and reciprocity fees wiped out for members in my territory when I repped for any of the w/s. The waiver rule applied to all 3 of them.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Credit where credit is due...

I thought the SAF did a great job preparing this draft/template and FAQ regarding the Federal Trade Commission's Identity Theft/Red Flags Rule for their members.

Definitely better than paying a lawyer to do it!



P.S. Thanks Lori for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Doug Munro]

Just a simple question

This is the first time I can recall SAF being the center of a firestorm. We have been a member of SAF for many years and I will say that they have a wealth of advertisng material, study results, government and industry updates that can be put to use by the average retail florist if they choose to do so.

I am curious though, many on this board want nothing to do with wire services, and now it appears that to some of those individuals SAF falls into the same category.

One of the underlying themes that is repeated constantly on this board is that our industry is changing and that the florist must change with it. I am curious as to who it is that is anticipated to lead this change. Apparently not the wire services, not SAF, probably not any of the largest shops as they generally fall into the category of OG, or at the very least are considered an ally of the WS (since they derive sending bonuses).

So who does that leave?

The fact is that our competitors don't have to ponder that question when it comes to their own businesses. A supermarket chain makes a decision then moves on it as a whole, same with Costco, a WS , an OG, etc.

Yet if we assume this chat board can be viewed as a snap shot (a small one) of the floral industry we are definitely rudderless. As a group this board can't seem to agree on anything most days except a hatred for the ones that are viewed as being the root cause for the changes in the industry.

Case in point, I read a thread this morning regarding a shop that turned down a F2F order, as they only accept orders over the Dove. The thread quickly turned into a bashing session questioning the shop owners intelligence. Equally as interesting was the fact that no one could agree as to whether or not a sending shop should be given a discount by the filling shop.

It's no wonder the small retail florist is going the way of the dinosaur. This is becoming less of an "industry" every day, it's like herding cats lol

 

[BOSS]

This is the first time I can recall SAF being the center of a firestorm. We have been a member of SAF for many years and I will say that they have a wealth of advertisng material, study results, government and industry updates that can be put to use by the average retail florist if they choose to do so.

I am curious though, many on this board want nothing to do with wire services, and now it appears that to some of those individuals SAF falls into the same category.

Since I fit this scenario...

I agree, SAF does do some things very well, but for me, it's the things they do not do that I take issue with. Turning a blind eye...and all that...

 

[duanermb]

We just joined SAF last month.
SAF New Members Post

We did so for many reasons, including some of those that Doug has posted above. I don't think that anyone can make this kind of decision accurately without trying them out and seeing for themselves what the organization can do for them - so we are trying it out.

WS / OG stuff aside, there appears to be far more for our dollar here than we anticipated after reading the SAF blasts over the past year on FC.

If the OGs truly are paying for most of what SAF does, then great, we will benefit from something we are not a part of.

Something we rarely discuss here:

How much of your business is wire in/out or internet?
How much of your times is spent dealing with / ranting about this part of the industry? (i am guilty over here)

Ours is running in the 15% range, so we should think about making solid decisions for the other 85% of our business as well. We beleve that being a member of SAF is also going to be good for our business overall.

One thing to note. We made it abundantly clear that we are not impressed that they only take monthly dues and sell their directory links through the wire services.. They made it abundantly clear that they had to do that because they had difficultly getting fees from florists who don't pay, and that the wire services do not dictate what they do. They facilitate fee collection for them.

(As a member now, I will continue to tweet about and correspond with them regarding tackling fraudulent advertising in the floral industry, but it is IMO a side endeavor that comes available only with membership)

 

[Doug Munro]

Since I fit this scenario...

I agree, SAF does do some things very well, but for me, it's the things they do not do that I take issue with. Turning a blind eye...and all that...

I prefer to view this from another perspective......

I believe that SAF is simply facing the realities of the flower industry, not that they have turned a blind eye to the changes occurring.

Mass marketers, WS, nurseries, growers, OG's are all a part of today's flower industry. There are two ways to deal with these changes, accept them and change with them, or ignore them and bury your head in the sand.

For SAF to totally ally themselves with the traditional mom & pop florist would be akin to rubber stamping their own death certificate.

Read this thread though and you quickly discover that these are the same folks that have difficulty justifying (or affording) the $240 annual membership fees, about $4.50 per week (would barely buy a fast food lunch).

Lets just say that next year SAF were to disappear..... can anyone name a single national organization that has the support of the majority of retail flower shops? Not likely...

So although there is a lot of strong talk on this board about boycotting wire services, refusing OG's orders, and once again making this an industry about the florist. Who is leading this attack?

It seems to me (IMHO) that as soon as anyone or group steps outside the traditional florist business plan, they become cannon fodder. So by default it is status quo, at least for the traditional florist.

Unfortunately the support in general is for a business model that is failing left, right, and center in today's world. As well, the one advantage that the traditional florist had is quickly slipping away, strength in numbers.

So I for one will continue to support SAF as it is still the only beacon of light. Maybe not a perfect one in some opinions, but certainly worth skipping the Burger King drive thru once a week (about $4.50).

On a last note, I have served on a number of boards over the years and I have learned one thing. Typically the ones who complain the loudest are the ones that continually sit on the side lines. If you want to change things GET INVOLVED! I have found in general that if you can get someone off the sidelines and actually involved in an organization, their opinions change for the better. Once they have a grasp on the realities that face the organization it's a lot harder to take pot shots.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

Awesome post Doug. I completely agree.

 

[BOSS]

Mass marketers, WS,............. OG's are all a part of today's flower industry. There are two ways to deal with these changes, accept them and change with them, or ignore them and bury your head in the sand.

I'll take the third avenue... eliminate my exposure to them, rise up and be what my community needs...nothing less...

BTW...just announced, we again took Gold in the Readers Choice poll done by our local paper...for the second year in a row... I'll stick with that...

 

[Doug Munro]

I'll take the third avenue... eliminate my exposure to them, rise up and be what my community needs...nothing less...

BTW...just announced, we again took Gold in the Readers Choice poll done by our local paper...for the second year in a row... I'll stick with that...

Congratulations Boss it is terrific to hear about your personal and local success.

Unfortunately while that is terrific news for you as an individual it does nothing for the industry.

My point was never directed at what an individual shop should do to improve their own lot in life. Rather I simply asked the question who will represent our industry as a whole moving forward.

The every man for himself mentality, will ensure some survivors. but it will do nothing to ensure that anything resembling a cohesive floral industry exists.

I have stated numerous times on this board that I truly believe our industry will eventually fall by the wayside in a similar fashion to many other retail sectors. Sectors such as hardware, toys, office supplies, meat, and electronics, where the vast majority of business occurs through the big box stores, wholesale clubs, super markets, etc. Sure there's still a few "survivors", but in general the independents "mom & pops" are all but gone.

All one has to do is review the numbers, every year less flower shops in existence.

 

[bloomz]

Unfortunately while that is terrific news for you as an individual it does nothing for the industry.

My point was never directed at what an individual shop should do to improve their own lot in life. Rather I simply asked the question who will represent our industry as a whole moving forward.

The every man for himself mentality, will ensure some survivors. but it will do nothing to ensure that anything resembling a cohesive floral industry exists.

All one has to do is review the numbers, every year less flower shops in existence.

As in - United we Stand - Divided we Fall perhaps?

I'm afraid SAF comes closer to uniting the industry than anything else I've ever seen, with far less damage than competing vendors like 800TFTD, actually no make that zero damage.

Nothing but plusses.

 

[sfox]

Great post Doug! The issue of SAF underscores the kinds of complex problems facing the floral retailer.

SAF is the only organization representing this industry in Washington. But because of it's makeup, it's a love hate relationship. We need to support SAF, but really can't afford to support them too much because the organization is home to some of the very forces seeking to undermine our business.

I belong but I also refuse to donate to their PAC. The issues they choose to lobby for are a majority of the time not in sync with my needs. I rather support other PACS that are more focused the issues more pressing to my business.

I'd rather not have to follow that path but it's the only one open to me. SAF is not really open to lobbying for the needs of all the industry.

 

[strippinrose]

I'll take the third avenue... eliminate my exposure to them, rise up and be what my community needs...nothing less...

BTW...just announced, we again took Gold in the Readers Choice poll done by our local paper...for the second year in a row... I'll stick with that...

congradulations!!
Wish I had the guts to follow you

 

[DruOwens]

TF & FTD Low Sending Fees

Is it not ironic that the wire services out bid you for these orders, run ads saying they are "local florists", send you the cheap orders, and then "fine" you for not sending enough orders. If you raise cane, they will wipe them off, but will show back up in a few months.

 

[Dior]

Is it not ironic that the wire services out bid you for these orders, run ads saying they are "local florists", send you the cheap orders, and then "fine" you for not sending enough orders. If you raise cane, they will wipe them off, but will show back up in a few months.

No one should pay low send fees or reciprocity fees. I've worn myself out commenting on that in various other threads. If you belong to only one wire service and are sending all your outgoing thru them, they will waive the low send fee, whether you have 1 or 100 orders to send. If you belong to more than one, you have to split the orders equally between/among the wire services and each wire service will then be satisfied that you are "trying to support them" equally and will waive the fees. Or if you have enough outgoing orders to send the minimum 20 and then keep the ratio demanded by the w/s reciprocity program, 3 to 1, 4 to 1, whatever it is, there will be no fees.

You need to keep on top of this, because, yes, they do try to sneak the fees back sometimes. I know many florists who have had to go thru the dog-and-pony show several times with each wire service to keep from getting the low send/recip fees reinstated. It's a royal pain, but you gotta do what you gotta do, or they will take advantage of it.

No one should be paying low send or reciprocity fees! You are all paying a lot of other fees, dues, buying products, website fees, clearinghouse fees, and on and on and on and on...

I think this will be the last time I write a post about the low send fees, because many of you are probably getting sick of me, so for the last time...

No one should be paying low send fees or reciprocity fees to the wire services.