The Consumerist's 2011 Valentine's Day Garden Of Discontent

[anytimeflowers]

I am betting that a good number of those non-deliveries were sent by og's. Bloomstoady is a prime example. They would wayyyyy over-promise and then be unable to place the order with a florist. Then they would give out the number of the florist, WHO REJECTED THEIR ORDER, as the one for the consumer to call. Somebody said it earlier, thank goodness the consumers are blaming FTD and not the fulfilling florist. Hopefully that florist will have wised up because they dodged a cannon-ball on that one.

That is why I would NEVER fulfill an order that they didn't get out in time. They would make me out to be the screw-up, and they appear to be the ones who "fixed" the problem.

The day I think is FAST approaching, really fast.

Just sayin'.......mwa-ha-ha

 

[OB1]

Perhaps that is true, however, in the example in the video shown, some real florist did deliver the horrible arangement of damaged, and dead tulips, and there is no excuse for that.
If you don't want to play in their sandbox, no problem...just opt out, or refuse the order.
In my opinion there is no excuse for that garbage to be delivered to anyone if you call yourself a professional florist.
It's no wonder our industry is in trouble, if that is what people are recieving.

 

[BOSS]

Missing 25 FTD deliveries could be financially devastating to a shop's bottom line since they'll be fined 2X the retail value of each missed delivery. If the average order was $60, the shop would owe FTD $3K cash in penalties. The sad part is that even if they got all 25 deliveries out on time, the shop would be lucky to net $300 after paying for product, labor & delivery costs.

The down side far outweighs the upside, esp. on V Day holiday orders. FTD's penalties likely made more florists turn off the Merc than ever before.

VERY true, and something everyone should take note of...

As to the WRAL story in the link Cathy posted, at least they put the focus on FTD, and not a local florist.. However, that said, I'm surprised some of you are amazed at the quality. Most of the good shops in cities everywhere are not FTD members any longer. In many locales, it's the sub-standard shops that are filling these gathered orders and the downward trend in quality will continue as FTD and the other wires burn through the good shops, and are left with those that shop out of the "yesterdays flowers bucket" at their wholesalers.

FTD had (Teleflora still does) the chance to work with the florists, keeping the "Best of the Best" as Bad Bobby used to call us in their stables, but their unethical practices and greed has made them a detriment to not only local florists, but the industry as a whole, and they will continue to take it down, faster than we can build it up.

 

[anytimeflowers]

VERY true, and something everyone should take note of...

As to the WRAL story in the link Cathy posted, at least they put the focus on FTD, and not a local florist.. However, that said, I'm surprised some of you are amazed at the quality. Most of the good shops in cities everywhere are not FTD members any longer. In many locales, it's the sub-standard shops that are filling these gathered orders and the downward trend in quality will continue as FTD and the other wires burn through the good shops, and are left with those that shop out of the "yesterdays flowers bucket" at their wholesalers.

FTD had (Teleflora still does) the chance to work with the florists, keeping the "Best of the Best" as Bad Bobby used to call us in their stables, but their unethical practices and greed has made them a detriment to not only local florists, but the industry as a whole, and they will continue to take it down, faster than we can build it up.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Those florists will be history if they don't wise up.

 

[concord]

Exactly what I was trying to say. Those florists will be history if they don't wise up.

and rightfully so. Regardless of my feelings about WS orders, when I was a member I always filled them to perfection because my name was on the order. If you do anything else you deserve to go out of business.

 

[BOSS]

One florists response to WRAL

My Response to the above I missed the broadcast of WRAL's News cast on Friday evening. However, thanks to the growth of technology and your companies continuing investments in it, it's made possible for me to read the story online today, despite the lack of moving video. You and many others continue to miss the reality in the situation that is behind the story you presented. Your news department, and one of your colleagues, (Cullen Browder) did it right two years ago on the occassion of the Mothers Day holiday. The story continues to live on our web site (www.floraldimensionsdurham.com) so I invite you to please take a look by scrolling down to the lower left corner on the home page. FTD is not a FLORIST. FTD is essentially an ORDER GATHERER. They collect orders and transmit them to real florists in networks across the globe. That is it's reality. There are a growing number of these networks and unfortunately the numbers continue to grow with no common sense rules that would benefit the consumer. The change started with changes in electonic communications,i.e., the 800 numbers and now the internet and smart phone. FTD was sold by the florists cooperative who started and owned it, to private investors. Profit generation has taken over the system. The advances in technology WILL NOT STOP, but there does need to be some common sense rules applied within the system's. Customers look for convenience and low prices and have been carefully taught through national advertising by the order gathers where to find it. The result has been the development of jobs and flower growing moving off shore to just where ever climate and low priced labor exist to be used and the closing of thousands of local "main street" businesses. A dozen roses in a vase for $19.99 (advertised by Pro Flowers and others) was AGAIN the play for this past Valentines day. The order gathers are making a fortune and real local retail florist are going out of business by the thousands, as they try to fill the many UNDER PRICED orders according to the order gatherers "suggested retail prices", with pictures. In the story you related. even at 70 dollars, including delivery, it's not enough to deliver 17 long stem roses, and certainly not with additional carnations, in a vase? FTD doesn't show an arrangement with the name you've quoted, but 1-800-flowers does. That arrangement is shown with tulips. Despite many orders and deliveries, we (Floral Dimensions) had only a VERY FEW complaints, (all resolved favorably) and two calls about customers credit cards being charged twice for the same order. In both instances of the credit card charging, we and the customer found the banks were responsible. I would suggest a greater look at more than just one of the problems that the order gathering system has generated. Again, I'd suggest that you take a longer and wider look, more than just this the one of the many problems generated by the costumers demand for convenience and price and for the lack of truth in their advertising. You're not the only producers or local station that falls into the trap, even the networks do it when they they identify the online order gatherers as florist to conduct a test to see who's best. The rush to do the tried and ill thought story for the Holiday brings heartache to local florists. It's time to rethink some of the givens and find some truth in a real investigation. Change is with us but... WHAT WILL YOU DO FOR MOTHER'S DAY?
__________________________
I like this guy... always have, always will...

 

[Doug Munro]

This is our REAL problem:
"It's incredible what they get away with. I've learned to never trust florists, the entire "flower industry" seems to be operated by shady people."

A comment from Boing Boing to an article call "Crappy V-day bouquets and their deceitful online representations"

Too bad the author is right about the national companies (and some of the local florists, too).

Like I've said, it took FTD more than 80 years to raise consumers' consciousness of flowers to the point where we were top-of-mind - and less than a decade to destroy all that work.

Time for a big cleansing.

Another unfortunate black eye for our industry. I know it is often popular (and fun for some) to continuously point to the foul ups of the major players as "victories" in the "war" against Wire Services and Order Gatherers, however I believe one line says it all "flower industry" seems to be operated by shady people.".

The reality of todays world is flowers are a VERY small slice of the gift giving options available to consumers. The nature of our industry tends to make us all more vulnerable to disapointment by the consumer. At one end we have overselling and at the other end we have underfilling, so whole it is easy for one end to lay all the blame on the other end, all parties contribute to some degree to the overall problem.

My personal opinion is that like many industries ours is going thorugh a major change brought about to a large degree by technology, our industry has just been slower to be affected than some. But we are definitely in the midst of it now.

The end result is that like any change those that adapt will survive.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

maybe the real "fix" is to order all our outgoing through Grower Direct!!

 

[BOSS]

The end result is that like any change those that adapt will survive.

I agree Doug... very much!

One thing about the comment ""flower industry" seems to be operated by shady people."

Seems to me, that we never had that problem prior to "company stores and order gatherers".... I'm just say'n
​

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I agree Doug... very much!

One thing about the comment ""flower industry" seems to be operated by shady people."

Seems to me, that we never had that problem prior to "company stores and order gatherers".... I'm just say'n
​

The STATEMENT of THE CENTURY!!

 

[Doug Munro]

I just received an interesting piece from SAF regarding Valentines and consumer purchases of flowers - Click Here

In a nut shell heres where surveyed consumers purchased flowers

46% - Grocery & Supermarket
26% - Retail Florist
19% - Mass Merchandisers ( I am guessing Sams Club, Costco,etc) up from 13% previous year
9% - Other than above

Unfortunately the not all details are outlined in the piece and the accompanying graph does not contain % numbers. However based on a visual of the graph it appears that "National Internet Floral Services" (which include wire services) are just slightly ahead of street vendors or convenience stores. On fact form the chart it appears that the National Internet Floral Services have seen a drop in their % in the last few years

Interesting, if the numbers are to be believed it appears that the mass merchandisers are a far bigger threat to the retail florist than the FTD's, 1-800 Flowers, or the Proflowers of the world.

Just food for thought

 

[Sprout]

Not a shocker to me. In my city since 2000, we have lost more than 50% of the florists and now have 2 times as many mass market stores (Target, Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) and grocery stores. I've been trying to map them out here. White markers for closed florists, green for open, and red for grocery stores.

 

[CHR]

it appears that the mass merchandisers are a far bigger threat to the retail florist than the FTD's, 1-800 Flowers, or the Proflowers of the world.

Doug, that was my take on the chart, too. SAF's headline highlighted how florists were holding our own against grocery stores, but the biggest gainers were the CostCo's/BJ's/Sam'sClubs of the world. Bulk, discount, few frills, low, low prices - and most in our area sell at or only slightly above our local wholesalers. The two things we do that they don't are offer delivery and make custom bouquets and arrangements. If buyers don't need these services, the mass merchandisers clearly have a pricing advantage.

 

[bootcampguy]

Doug, that was my take on the chart, too. SAF's headline highlighted how florists were holding our own against grocery stores, but the biggest gainers were the CostCo's/BJ's/Sam'sClubs of the world. Bulk, discount, few frills, low, low prices - and most in our area sell at or only slightly above our local wholesalers. The two things we do that they don't are offer delivery and make custom bouquets and arrangements. If buyers don't need these services, the mass merchandisers clearly have a pricing advantage.

I don't think MD or other holidays will keep them that high (but impressive), VD is traditionally a grab and go holiday and the mass marketers in my area did a good job in marketing the "10 lanes open, grab and go"....type buying. Our marketing needs to a "a seperation" message.

 

[Doug Munro]

CHR,

I see two distinct advantages that the mass marketers have , retail pricing and convenience. I bolded "retail" intentionally, as the reality is that far too often flower retailers will argue that the mass marketers have a tremendous advantage because they buy their flowers "so cheap". Unfortunately that is not entirely the case, Sure they save a bit on cost of product over a stand alone retail florist. However their true advantage in pricing is at the "retail " side where they are willing and able to work a much smaller markup than a florist.

I know that many will read this and come back that I am off my rocker with comments like "Costco pays a lots less for flowers than I do". Think about it if a rose a rose is priced at $0.45 FOB Miami ($5.40 per dozen) and a mass marketer saves 20% that means they still pay $4.32 per dozen. Does anyone on this board actually believe that a mass marketer can sell a product retail for 75% - 90% less than a retail florist by saving 20% on the initial cost? It is all about mark up.

Yes, I do know all the arguments about why they can mark up less and a retail florist can not. However none of these arguments change the facts.

As for convenience, that speaks for itself. Groceries, linens, hardware, flowers, all under one roof.

On a last note, keep in mind that we are not the only industry that the mass marketers are impacting, every retail industry from computers to butchers has seen the the mass marketers take a bite out of their sales for the same reason they are affecting us.

 

[duanermb]

I agree Doug... very much!

One thing about the comment ""flower industry" seems to be operated by shady people."

Seems to me, that we never had that problem prior to "company stores and order gatherers".... I'm just say'n
​

I think it's just a matter of timing. As the industry has changed, we haven't changed along with it. The simple old school carnation designs that many florists are still putting out because they see "Designer's Choice" as a way to make extra cash is their own demise. We've all seen the sickly looking arrangements in images, through delivery pools and at funeral homes and businesses.

The timing I speak of is the timing of the industry change. Everyone's expectation of value is now different, not only because of the cheap pricing from the big guys, but from the ability to see 20 different web sites before making a purchase and the fact that the consumer now has a strong opinion of what their flowers should look like when they order from the florist. The consumer is more educated on what can and should be provided for their money.

It's easy to blame the OGs when the "timing" aligns with their market penetration.

I just received an interesting piece from SAF regarding Valentines and consumer purchases of flowers - Click Here

In a nut shell heres where surveyed consumers purchased flowers

46% - Grocery & Supermarket
26% - Retail Florist
19% - Mass Merchandisers ( I am guessing Sams Club, Costco,etc) up from 13% previous year
9% - Other than above

Unfortunately the not all details are outlined in the piece and the accompanying graph does not contain % numbers. However based on a visual of the graph it appears that "National Internet Floral Services" (which include wire services) are just slightly ahead of street vendors or convenience stores. On fact form the chart it appears that the National Internet Floral Services have seen a drop in their % in the last few years

Interesting, if the numbers are to be believed it appears that the mass merchandisers are a far bigger threat to the retail florist than the FTD's, 1-800 Flowers, or the Proflowers of the world.

Just food for thought

We may be seeing a bit of a leveling in the market where it comes to the grocery stores. I have noticed that several Safeway stores here have removed their full service counters, left up the trellis, and have opted to go cash and carry only. They are still delivering, but I think they may have over shot the mark trying to delve into the full service part of the business.

That being said, no matter when I go in for 10 minutes to get a coffee or some lunch, there is at least 2 or 3 people walking out with bunches of flowers. They will maintain that volume, but without the full service aspect during the holidays, we win back that part of the market.

CHR,

I see two distinct advantages that the mass marketers have , retail pricing and convenience. I bolded "retail" intentionally, as the reality is that far too often flower retailers will argue that the mass marketers have a tremendous advantage because they buy their flowers "so cheap". Unfortunately that is not entirely the case, Sure they save a bit on cost of product over a stand alone retail florist. However their true advantage in pricing is at the "retail " side where they are willing and able to work a much smaller markup than a florist.

I know that many will read this and come back that I am off my rocker with comments like "Costco pays a lots less for flowers than I do". Think about it if a rose a rose is priced at $0.45 FOB Miami ($5.40 per dozen) and a mass marketer saves 20% that means they still pay $4.32 per dozen. Does anyone on this board actually believe that a mass marketer can sell a product retail for 75% - 90% less than a retail florist by saving 20% on the initial cost? It is all about mark up.

Yes, I do know all the arguments about why they can mark up less and a retail florist can not. However none of these arguments change the facts.

As for convenience, that speaks for itself. Groceries, linens, hardware, flowers, all under one roof.

On a last note, keep in mind that we are not the only industry that the mass marketers are impacting, every retail industry from computers to butchers has seen the the mass marketers take a bite out of their sales for the same reason they are affecting us.

As I stated above, they will continue to win the battle on margin and convenience, but my hope is that they will slowly slide away from full service over time.

While this is good news, I don't believe that it's enough to keep florists from declining in numbers overall. Mainly, the value isn't there for those who refuse to change and run their businesses lean and profitable at 2/3 the selling price we could demand 10-15 years ago.

 

[lori042499]

Doug, I have to agree...I have had a few complaints or semi bad reviews on the internet...I cannot totally say they came from another florist, but they all have to do more with selection of flowers and composition rather than design or quality...

I have been doing some extra sleuth work on the phone when taking orders and asking a few extra questions or rather traded a few new questin in lieu of older questions..

For instance when selling roses I out and out ask them how the like their roses designed, are the expecting a traditional long stemmed dozen in a tall vase or a low compact modern dozen...I ask this because I have had people dissapointed in the longstemm version and its old fashioned qualities, some people just expect when they are delling with a younegr hipper store that the designs will automatically be designed that way, like wise we as older seasoned designers assume that most people want their roses long stemmed, both are wrong in their assumption, vut it really is our job as service industry pros to find out all the info before letting the customer go...

I also have changed the ever popular would you like your flowers in a vase or a basket with, How do you prefer you flowers designed? I then let them ask me what are the options if they have no clue or they will tell me...I start the dialog and let them know that they have choices in that department if they want to elaborate, in the past is was just mixed flowers in a vase or a basket, leaving on the table all of the other infinite choices...I am finding that people do have some definite ideas on what they invision if you ask, some really don't care but those sales calls are usually quick and they let you know right away, that they really just want flowers and they want you to just do it and take care of it...point is though if you assume no one cares and you just do what you want and never inquire you are apt to fall behind in styles or lose the connection with the chaging styles of your customers offering up just the same old same old day in and day out...

I am selling more and more designed items in specialty containers and butterflys and all those special bits and bobs that we usually keep in the backroom because your not sure f the sender really wants birds or what if they don't like bugs ar butterf;ies going to offend this person. If we take a few minutes and get the info on personality from those customers that are happy to give it, we sell more and we make happier customers...because we cared to make their gift personal and special...

 

[Doug Munro]

It's easy to blame the OGs when the "timing" aligns with their market penetration.

We may be seeing a bit of a leveling in the market where it comes to the grocery stores. I have noticed that several Safeway stores here have removed their full service counters, left up the trellis, and have opted to go cash and carry only. They are still delivering, but I think they may have over shot the mark trying to delve into the full service part of the business.

That being said, no matter when I go in for 10 minutes to get a coffee or some lunch, there is at least 2 or 3 people walking out with bunches of flowers. They will maintain that volume, but without the full service aspect during the holidays, we win back that part of the market.

As I stated above, they will continue to win the battle on margin and convenience, but my hope is that they will slowly slide away from full service over time.

While this is good news, I don't believe that it's enough to keep florists from declining in numbers overall. Mainly, the value isn't there for those who refuse to change and run their businesses lean and profitable at 2/3 the selling price we could demand 10-15 years ago.

Duanne,
Your observation about the supermarkets cutting back on their floral departments is an interesting one, particularly when you consider that one of the survey numbers left out was the fact that the supers markets % of sales had actually dropped over the previous two years from 58% and 56% to the 46% they hold in 2011. Sometimes its easy to forget the the mass marketers are also grabbing a huge chunk of traditional supermarket across the board (groceries, baked goods, meat, produce, and yes flowers as well). What this points out to me (IMHO) is that the mass marketers are today's "one stop shops" even more so than the traditional grocery store, they carry a broad range of goods from A to Z making then extremely attractive to the consumer. Unfortunately this also means that just based on their sheer foot traffic they can take a huge chunk of business in a particular retail sector.

I have to admit that my wife and I sometimes swing over to Costco with nothing particular in mind and walk out $200 -$300 lighter in the pocket.

 

[BOSS]

Interesting, if the numbers are to be believed it appears that the mass merchandisers are a far bigger threat to the retail florist than the FTD's, 1-800 Flowers, or the Proflowers of the world.

Just food for thought

Again, I agree with Doug (better go see the doc)... where this pertains to "in store" sales for local consumption. No one is going to call Costco to send flowers to someone, but they will buy to "take with". The big boxes are affecting local sales.

However that said, the 10,000,000+++ orders a year that flow from order gatherers and "company stores" are doing more damage to the long term health of the industry.

BTW, I don't believe SAF's numbers... they sleep with the wire services.

 

[bootcampguy]

......................BTW, I don't believe SAF's numbers... they sleep with the wire services.

You read my mind!!