Rhonda, I come from your school of design--a $70 arrangement should definitely have more flowers than they got. If this were going to a home, would they still have gotten only 15 stems or so of flowers in the arrangement? They could at least have added some roses and a bit of caspia or babies breath...(they're not THAT expensive yet! It's not a holiday) Without even counting, you can tell by the "look" of an arrangement whether or not it's worth the price.
What do you get for $70 total Funeral Piece??!!
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So sorry guys, but I don't agree with those of you that have a two-tier pricing. First of all it's unethical and second, it's definately against wire service rules. When you send me an order (either FTD or Teleflora), I will give you the same amount of flowers that I give my own customers. That's the way it's supposed to be done. I would hope that you would do the same for me, but maybe not. At least I can say that I can sleep at night.
Sorry that you didn't get a nice arrangement from the other florist. That happened to us a couple of years ago for our Aunt's funeral in Butte, Montana. We even told the florist that I would be attending, so please take extra special care. I think we sent close to $200. When I got there, I couldn't believe it!!! I immediately asked the funeral director for the number of the florist and called. I insisted that they bring me more flowers to the funeral home. The owner was of course embarrassed as I made her stand and watch me remake the arrangement and add ALL the flowers that she had brought to the arrangement while I gave her a "Piece of my mind". Her excuse was that her "new gal really wanted to make this piece and she didn't have the heart to tell her no". I think that when I returned home and told the Bro. what had happened, he sent a price change on it. You can't really do that with a CC--at least not as easily. The wire services will back us. One more reason for having a wire service...just my opinion tho
Sorry that you didn't get a nice arrangement from the other florist. That happened to us a couple of years ago for our Aunt's funeral in Butte, Montana. We even told the florist that I would be attending, so please take extra special care. I think we sent close to $200. When I got there, I couldn't believe it!!! I immediately asked the funeral director for the number of the florist and called. I insisted that they bring me more flowers to the funeral home. The owner was of course embarrassed as I made her stand and watch me remake the arrangement and add ALL the flowers that she had brought to the arrangement while I gave her a "Piece of my mind". Her excuse was that her "new gal really wanted to make this piece and she didn't have the heart to tell her no". I think that when I returned home and told the Bro. what had happened, he sent a price change on it. You can't really do that with a CC--at least not as easily. The wire services will back us. One more reason for having a wire service...just my opinion tho
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
Fifteen common flowers and none of the flowers were big show, maybe the glads if they were open.
I think someone cleaned out the a couple of flower vases on your order.
I do get concerned when flower shops speak of high dollar arrangements with few flowers.
We need to think like the customer and the recipient and focus on perceived value.
For $70, you should receive a good value for your money. Fifteen common flowers does not add up to that value.
Now had they used say, 8-10 spiders and 8-10 carns with some filler, I could see the value. The spiders are larger than the snaps which gives better perceived value. Carnations are fine, a little small but very useable in funeral work, if open.
Also, color adds to the perception of value. One or two bright colored flowers or an all white arrangement will stand out in a funeral home over a multi colored pastel bouquet.
Easels generally give more show and perceived value than a traditional paper mache. An easel's cost (excluding the easel, get them back from the funeral home) has a Oasis cage, $1.65 and Oasis $.50, 8 stems of emeral $.15/stem and probably a bunch of LL at $1.65.
Don't use the Oasis cages that have the Oasis already installed. You pay for convenience. At a local wholesale house on Sat I checked this out, because on of my new designers think I do things wrong. Anyway, a wire Oasis cage with Oasis already inserted costs$5.65, a plastic Oasis bar with 3/4 block of Oasis costs $3.65. That compares to $2.15 for my way of buying the plastic Oasis cage and placing a block in it.
Paper Mache's are pasee' for some of you but, they are cheap and are time tested proven containers for large showy bouquets. A 6kf, or 6J costs 50 cents and the shredded styrofoam costs pennies. Compare that to TF's prefilled urn that costs about $10. These are aproximately the same sized containers and will give the same show for flowers. The difference is most times you won't see the container in the funeral home because the funeral director has placed another bouquet in front of the other and hide the container. Bows work well for hiding the container as does cheap green plant pot covers, which can be recycled after the funeral.
Hth
joe
I think someone cleaned out the a couple of flower vases on your order.
I do get concerned when flower shops speak of high dollar arrangements with few flowers.
We need to think like the customer and the recipient and focus on perceived value.
For $70, you should receive a good value for your money. Fifteen common flowers does not add up to that value.
Now had they used say, 8-10 spiders and 8-10 carns with some filler, I could see the value. The spiders are larger than the snaps which gives better perceived value. Carnations are fine, a little small but very useable in funeral work, if open.
Also, color adds to the perception of value. One or two bright colored flowers or an all white arrangement will stand out in a funeral home over a multi colored pastel bouquet.
Easels generally give more show and perceived value than a traditional paper mache. An easel's cost (excluding the easel, get them back from the funeral home) has a Oasis cage, $1.65 and Oasis $.50, 8 stems of emeral $.15/stem and probably a bunch of LL at $1.65.
Don't use the Oasis cages that have the Oasis already installed. You pay for convenience. At a local wholesale house on Sat I checked this out, because on of my new designers think I do things wrong. Anyway, a wire Oasis cage with Oasis already inserted costs$5.65, a plastic Oasis bar with 3/4 block of Oasis costs $3.65. That compares to $2.15 for my way of buying the plastic Oasis cage and placing a block in it.
Paper Mache's are pasee' for some of you but, they are cheap and are time tested proven containers for large showy bouquets. A 6kf, or 6J costs 50 cents and the shredded styrofoam costs pennies. Compare that to TF's prefilled urn that costs about $10. These are aproximately the same sized containers and will give the same show for flowers. The difference is most times you won't see the container in the funeral home because the funeral director has placed another bouquet in front of the other and hide the container. Bows work well for hiding the container as does cheap green plant pot covers, which can be recycled after the funeral.
Hth
joe
Tracy D'Amico
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to clarify that not alllllll those flowers went into Rhonda's piece - when I first read the ingredients I was scrambling for my calculator because I quickly added in my head over $75 in product, no labor. I didn't see the "or".
Twila - the skimming of the commission paid on incoming wires drives me crazy. I just don't get it. Oh, and that crazy owner who didn't have the heart to step into a poor design????? never mind.
Joe - excellent point about using good "value" flowers - visual value is important. In a $50 floor container, I would never use snaps or glads at $2.50+ per stem, unless it was allllll glads, tight. Spiders, carns, mums, aster/monte or gyp, all one color, or shades of one color.
MasterJ, hope you got some results with the florist ....
lori042499
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Just to clarify, I never said we use the two tiered pricing just that alot of florists do...
Your are correct on the ws having our back....that is one very good thing they do for us. I have used WS to send things from myself and always let them know that is is coming from me and I ask what will be going into it and just generally let them know that I will be on top of what I am sending. I have never had a problem, however in todays day and age I am getting more and more leary of trusting that I will get a quality anything from a floriat I don't know...It is scary..
It's amazing to me, what is an "acceptable" funeral piece to some florists!
We ended up getting a $7 price change from the florist,woohoo!
Again, its not the price, thats getting me, its that my designer was embarrassed by an unaaceptable design!
Twila, its unfortuante that these orders arent filled to value, that is the problem with the wire services today...we oureselves have a $60 minimum with tf, and if we get an order that is not enough value, we ask for more $ or refuse it!
If this florist needed more they should set their minimum higher,and they could have asked for more $, and we would have gladly given it to them
I personally don't think this florist would have done a good job even with a CC at 100%!
We ended up getting a $7 price change from the florist,woohoo!
Again, its not the price, thats getting me, its that my designer was embarrassed by an unaaceptable design!
Twila, its unfortuante that these orders arent filled to value, that is the problem with the wire services today...we oureselves have a $60 minimum with tf, and if we get an order that is not enough value, we ask for more $ or refuse it!
If this florist needed more they should set their minimum higher,and they could have asked for more $, and we would have gladly given it to them
I personally don't think this florist would have done a good job even with a CC at 100%!
lori042499
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It's amazing to me, what is an "acceptable" funeral piece to some florists!
We ended up getting a $7 price change from the florist,woohoo!
Again, its not the price, thats getting me, its that my designer was embarrassed by an unaaceptable design!
Twila, its unfortuante that these orders arent filled to value, that is the problem with the wire services today...we oureselves have a $60 minimum with tf, and if we get an order that is not enough value, we ask for more $ or refuse it!
If this florist needed more they should set their minimum higher,and they could have asked for more $, and we would have gladly given it to them
I personally don't think this florist would have done a good job even with a CC at 100%!
Bad design is bad design, can't be fixed with more money.....
You are probably right that they wouldn't have done anything better with a cc at 100%, I have always said it takes more skill to make things at the bottom of the pay scale because the choice of flowers really makes a big difference in how the design will come out...the designer on this had choices and made poor ones. Dark flowers with dark green background equal empty look in Funeral home coupled with not enough to meet value of order...
this thread is really sad.
Not only are we seeing arrangements from within our own florist family looking terrible, so what does that say about the consumer who may not have even said anything (about a terrible arr), but vowed the next time to give to the charity of choice.
Case in point. this past weekend a local apple farmer was killed in an accident. He farmed apples his whole life and he was also big into softball, his daughters are college softball coaches, athletic directors etc. (we're talking big softball - one granddaughter was on the UM championship softball team) I had family work and work from our local HS. We used fresh apples and our schools arr was designed around a real softball (would have used a mitt if I had time to get an old one).
There were tons of arrangments from several florists and not one of them had any apples or softball themes what so ever. I never saw so many red carnations and white daisy fan shapped container arr. It was so all the same! I can't describe it.
Monday morning my first phone call was from our HS athletic director. The family at visitation made a point of thanking them for the perfect arrangement they had sent and they commented that not one other arr was as thoughtfull as thiers....
today I am using golf clubs, ball and tees for a guy whose obit states He loved to golf.
And I don't spend a fortune on this stuff, garage sales keep me stocked with stuff for pennies.
It's what I need to do to keep my name out front in this dog eat dog world.
Not only are we seeing arrangements from within our own florist family looking terrible, so what does that say about the consumer who may not have even said anything (about a terrible arr), but vowed the next time to give to the charity of choice.
Case in point. this past weekend a local apple farmer was killed in an accident. He farmed apples his whole life and he was also big into softball, his daughters are college softball coaches, athletic directors etc. (we're talking big softball - one granddaughter was on the UM championship softball team) I had family work and work from our local HS. We used fresh apples and our schools arr was designed around a real softball (would have used a mitt if I had time to get an old one).
There were tons of arrangments from several florists and not one of them had any apples or softball themes what so ever. I never saw so many red carnations and white daisy fan shapped container arr. It was so all the same! I can't describe it.
Monday morning my first phone call was from our HS athletic director. The family at visitation made a point of thanking them for the perfect arrangement they had sent and they commented that not one other arr was as thoughtfull as thiers....
today I am using golf clubs, ball and tees for a guy whose obit states He loved to golf.
And I don't spend a fortune on this stuff, garage sales keep me stocked with stuff for pennies.
It's what I need to do to keep my name out front in this dog eat dog world.
I wonder if telling them it was comming from a fellow florist would have helped.i don't agree with the practice of scimming off the top of a wo. It make us all look bad.
Sher
New Member
Part of the problem is that some of these florists are
1. Not actually a florist.
2. work out of a fast quick stop joint
3. WS will sign anybody up and there is NO quality control NO shop inspections No requiremnets to have basic items in the stores
4. Some of them have absolutely NO clue as to design
5. We have no idea on the sending order exactly "what?who, we are sending to.
We find that we are calling more and more. The major advantage for the WS membership at this point for us is
1. technology
2. backup for disputes
3. images
4.hmmmmmm can't think of anything else right now
FlowerChat really does not reflect what is out there passing themselves off as a Florist....after doing some traveling this summer, I had a real eyeopener along the roads looking into windows of "FlowerShops"...scary
Sher
1. Not actually a florist.
2. work out of a fast quick stop joint
3. WS will sign anybody up and there is NO quality control NO shop inspections No requiremnets to have basic items in the stores
4. Some of them have absolutely NO clue as to design
5. We have no idea on the sending order exactly "what?who, we are sending to.
We find that we are calling more and more. The major advantage for the WS membership at this point for us is
1. technology
2. backup for disputes
3. images
4.hmmmmmm can't think of anything else right now
FlowerChat really does not reflect what is out there passing themselves off as a Florist....after doing some traveling this summer, I had a real eyeopener along the roads looking into windows of "FlowerShops"...scary
Sher
Well with labor figured in, minus the delivery charge, I added it up and it sounds almost right, value-wise. If we're talking about a $60 (ish) arrangment. Just not a very attractive one.
It just so happens I sent a vase out this morning in that price range; it had stargazers, snaps, spray roses, eucalyptus, salal, and iris and was pretty tall and full.
It just so happens I sent a vase out this morning in that price range; it had stargazers, snaps, spray roses, eucalyptus, salal, and iris and was pretty tall and full.
Obviously, you used the wrong florist. If you had used us, I'm sure the results would have been different. We haven,t had a glad in the store for a month.
well, this is a really old thread, but I'm gonna chime in here...
#1, what Lori said is right, bad design is bad design, more money won't make it better.
#2, The price and the flowers that were in the arrangement sound ok to me. Value wise anyway. Some people charge $3/carn, $6/glad, $4/ snap.
Oasis isn't free, the container isn't free.
#3, What the heck is wrong with glads, snaps and carns?
#4, I think It was Joe who said maches are very much accepted in different parts of the country. And yep, they are making a comeback in different forms....recreations containers for example.
It's always interesting to me to see different reactions to common flowers from different designers.
I think, if you've been in this biz for 20+ years you remember the days when almost all shops across the board carried pretty much, carns, liatris, snaps, glads, poms, spider mums, statice, babies breath, stagazer lilies (for fancy arrangements), birds of paradise (also for fancy arrangements) leather, myrtle, huck, and if we are gonna get REALLY fancy curly willow or rivercane. And cymbidium orchids were mostly used for corsages at mother's day... There were always the fancy shops, usually in big cities who carried much much more than that, but for most small town shops that's what they had on hand and used.
Now if you been designing less than 15 years you got into this biz at a really exciting time if you ask me. Things have changed so much and so quickly. So many new and exciting flowers to use, and foliages too. And design is eons from what it used to be.
Some people have kept up with the trends, some don't.
The other thing that is a bit bothersome is so many are so quick to "fire that designer" Why not teach her HOW to design the way you want things in your store rather than just giving the boot. And yes I understand that she doesn't work for any of you, but that is how the industry gets stronger, through education.
I have a situation right now where I am working with one designer in paticular...my MOM! Trying to get her to appreciate newer designs is a challenge.
She's a pretty good designer, don't get me wrong. But she retired in 1995, and has recently came back to work part time at the store I manage. Back in the 80's and early 90's at the store she worked for they used white crushed stryrofoam in their vases with a big block of oasis on top of it and taped that sucker down with green tape, then all around with green tape to make sure that tape didn't move.
But that's what they did, who knows they still might do it that way!!
#1, what Lori said is right, bad design is bad design, more money won't make it better.
#2, The price and the flowers that were in the arrangement sound ok to me. Value wise anyway. Some people charge $3/carn, $6/glad, $4/ snap.
Oasis isn't free, the container isn't free.
#3, What the heck is wrong with glads, snaps and carns?
#4, I think It was Joe who said maches are very much accepted in different parts of the country. And yep, they are making a comeback in different forms....recreations containers for example.
It's always interesting to me to see different reactions to common flowers from different designers.
I think, if you've been in this biz for 20+ years you remember the days when almost all shops across the board carried pretty much, carns, liatris, snaps, glads, poms, spider mums, statice, babies breath, stagazer lilies (for fancy arrangements), birds of paradise (also for fancy arrangements) leather, myrtle, huck, and if we are gonna get REALLY fancy curly willow or rivercane. And cymbidium orchids were mostly used for corsages at mother's day... There were always the fancy shops, usually in big cities who carried much much more than that, but for most small town shops that's what they had on hand and used.
Now if you been designing less than 15 years you got into this biz at a really exciting time if you ask me. Things have changed so much and so quickly. So many new and exciting flowers to use, and foliages too. And design is eons from what it used to be.
Some people have kept up with the trends, some don't.
The other thing that is a bit bothersome is so many are so quick to "fire that designer" Why not teach her HOW to design the way you want things in your store rather than just giving the boot. And yes I understand that she doesn't work for any of you, but that is how the industry gets stronger, through education.
I have a situation right now where I am working with one designer in paticular...my MOM! Trying to get her to appreciate newer designs is a challenge.
She's a pretty good designer, don't get me wrong. But she retired in 1995, and has recently came back to work part time at the store I manage. Back in the 80's and early 90's at the store she worked for they used white crushed stryrofoam in their vases with a big block of oasis on top of it and taped that sucker down with green tape, then all around with green tape to make sure that tape didn't move.
But that's what they did, who knows they still might do it that way!!
Yeah, I remember this old thread, ha ha, Shannon, maybe the next FC design competition could be this, A funeral piece with
10 pink carns, 3 burgundy snaps and 2 burgundy glads, with baker and tree fern, THATS IT!!!!
Lets see who can make the prettiest one!:rofl:
I won't be entering that competitionface
10 pink carns, 3 burgundy snaps and 2 burgundy glads, with baker and tree fern, THATS IT!!!!
Lets see who can make the prettiest one!:rofl:
I won't be entering that competition
face
Yeah, I remember this old thread, ha ha, Shannon, maybe the next FC design competition could be this, A funeral piece with
10 pink carns, 3 burgundy snaps and 2 burgundy glads, with baker and tree fern, THATS IT!!!!
Lets see who can make the prettiest one!:rofl:
I won't be entering that competition
While these flowers would be way down on my list to use....circumstances might make me use them. But, I promise that if I used these flowers, the design would be so good that no one would complain about the type of flowers.
Sounds like a really poor designer did this. That is why I think we should have some standards in the industry. Just like voting, we should have a minimal exam to weed out those don't have a clue.
Carol Bice
I think you give these shops way too much credit.....many shops have no idea how much to put into an arrangement at a given price....so they wing it....its a problem for years and years....the fact of the matter is, this industry should be licensed....no exceptions
doesn't anybody use pomps , mums and spiders anymore? Using these types of flowers certainly would fill up the basket and give greater value for the money. Designers and shops have to keep in mind what they are using for specific applications.
I would have no problem using these flowers and **gasp** carnations...
The worst thing I see at funerals is mache containers stuffed full of mums, designed horribly.
I TRULY feel that any type flower can be used to make a gorgeous design.
If the designer is unskilled he/she will make the most beautiful orchids and peonies look like poo.
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
It depends on your market. one funeral home has about 3 dozen stands that accommodates a standard 6j, 6kf, 6 something.
If we deviate from that paper mache, we will not maintain good standing with the FD.
joe
btw: peonies are weeds. As a kid I used to have to mow around an old cut flower bed that was established by either my grandfather or great grandfather. Those beds probably dated back to the late 1800's or early 1900's. FINALLY, in the 1980's those "weeds" were removed.
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