Whoa!!! Holy crap!!!

[pdxdoug]

I've been dying to get my own book made. I have a thousand photos but I don't know how to get that made into a book. Right now I have a computer set up on the counter so people can browse the website. For the younger shoppers I hand them an Ipad to browse the options on the website. They think that's really neat. I really want a book for back-up though. Anyone know where to get something like that made? Hopefully for way less than $400?

Sarah,

We make up own own books by uploading our photos to Ritz Photo and they print it. One of the young ladies on my staff chooses the photos, makes the text up and has me provide any missing images she needs. Pricing is a separate laminated sheet that is inserted into the finished book. Books from Ritz are relatively inexpensive - but it takes her (and me) a number of hours to create a professionally looking one.

Most if not all the photos are from our website but occasionally she'll want something else to add.

Doug

 

[BOSS]

Yep Keith, it IS a profit center for the mother-ship.... same with FTD and 800F... and true as well, they are copying FTD in their timing, sending it out when florists have little hope to get it priced correctly for their shop, get the web images priced correctly and remove those they do not want shown on their site removed...

I'd bet this book, web images at the very least were ready over the summer and into September. They could have rolled this out when florists had the time to deal with it, but noooooo.... maybe they should hold off until January... or at the least, let the florist decide when the web images are uploaded, hopefully after they receive a price structure spreadsheet from the florist...

 

[lori042499]

All I can hope is that the pricing cd works correctly or easily on this one...

 

[theRKF]

While I whole-heartedly agree with Eric about the benefits of using your own images (he does a great job) and your own logo (duh!), maybe we need to revisit our thinking on the guides.

1) It's part of the package when you sign on with any wire service - we shouldn't act surprised
2) Since when is profit a dirty word? TF is in business to make money, just like the rest of us. Is it the dollar figure or the % that offends us?
3) Should we consider the WS guides as a form of tax - or simply the cost of doing business? We need some kind of professional selection guide, whether it's a WS book, home made, Vista/Shutter/Ritz, etc. We can either pay the high rates of the WS book, or invest the time, thought and energy into making our own. In any case there is a cost involved.
4) The WS books have benefits beyond the quality of the images and the books / software / etc. A definite, though intangible, benefit is standardization. I get that for some shops this is not a benefit... perhaps in that case you need to get out of the WS and make your own books. Having a standardized selection guide that can be referenced coast to coast is a big asset for many shops.

As usual, when it comes to the wire services you need to treat them as a vendor and evaluate if you're getting you money's worth out of the investment. If not, cut the cord and move on.

Promotional note: Just for the record - if you're sick of having WS people dictate what images are on your web site, call us and get your own site that you actually control. You'll save time, money, stress, and probably sell more flowers too.

 

[pdxdoug]

PS if the cost is 3 mill then 15,000 members times $400 is 6 mill looks like the Resnicks will be acquiring more farms!

Keith-
They're going to use that extra money generated to pay their lawyers to fight the FTC (or whoever) on POM juice advertising!

Doug

 

[BOSS]

I agree with Ryan...some...

1) Very True
2) Profit is not a dirty word. That said, in today's economy, maybe they could have shot for 50% rather than 100% mark-up.
3) It's a marketing expense. You market for them, and it's costs you money LOL...
4) As to standardization, many have chosen not to look like everyone else... in fact that has been a theme here on FC for years...

And lastly...

Promotional note: Just for the record - if you're sick of having WS people dictate what images are on your web site, call us and get your own site that you actually control. You'll save time, money, stress, and probably sell more flowers too. ​

Here we agree completely... no better solution for the professional florist than Strider~!


​

 

[bootcampguy]

Keith-
They're going to use that extra money generated to pay their lawyers to fight the FTC (or whoever) on POM juice advertising!
Doug

Or maybe for more celebs.......to go to Re-hab.........I'm gonna go to re-hab, yo, yo, yo.........(as Amy would sing)...........
Brittany's unit was 1 mil.....

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Or maybe for more celebs.......to go to Re-hab.........I'm gonna go to re-hab, yo, yo, yo.........(as Amy would sing)...........
Brittany's unit was 1 mil.....

WE used to call them "retards"......maybe that should be resurrected.
People with true disabilities are way smarter than some of these celeb retards......

 

[lori042499]

Ryan,

I am all for a new book...I think they needed it...I am not for them charging 400.00 for the book then 14.99 a month for marketing kits...That is crazy...especially when our board wanted to get a sign made for our program and they allowed us to spend less than 20 bucks on it but make sure it is real professional looking...but the seem to be quite ok spending our money on extra special waterproof paper blah, blah...In this economy and knowing that florists were hit bad and that so many are hanging on by a thread, they just continue to go up and up on prices and making up new ones...that is what is killing me...yet when we want them to sell these arrangements at a reasonable amount to include some profit, they want to say the consumer doesn't value the flowers that much...I am sure that there are many, many florists like myself are one 15.00 up charge away from throwing in the towel with them...I have never known the flower industry without a wireservice and I am still uncertain that I don't need them, but I am certain that I cannot keep affording their increases...and must do something to change the situation...

 

[BOSS]

I wonder how many shops, pay for the books and never take them out of the box, or show them to a customer???

 

[theRKF]

they just continue to go up and up on prices and making up new ones...that is what is killing me...

I am sure that there are many, many florists like myself are one 15.00 up charge away from throwing in the towel with them...

I am still uncertain that I don't need them

I'm not sure if I need to say anything more.

Ok, I will Lori, haven't you been "$15 away from leaving" for a few years? They keep increasing the pricing because they know that florists will complain (if they notice at all), a few will leave (or be retained by short-term promo offers), but the majority will pay up because they are afraid to quit. Not counting the directory, the new fee increases could easily add $750,000 in monthly revenue. Even with 10% attrition, they are still ahead of the game (though the attrition is likely to be minimal because florists will have cooled off by the quitting deadline).

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I wonder how many shops, pay for the books and never take them out of the box, or show them to a customer???

Where I am now- We never have shown that book to anyone. We do very few wire outs. And an interesting trend here, people look online first and then give me a item number that they want to send. Awesome customers!
At Aprils- only when doing wire outs did we show that book.

I have noticed through the years people ask less and less to look at "the book" I think it has a lot to do with they can look at it already online if they so desire.

 

[lori042499]

Nope, I was under contract until may of this year, I am now free to leave...I am waiting to see what you have to offer as a special for the bootcamp and my website will be changing...that is one big hurdle...Next would be changing my POS...I have been trying out how I like the charging of cc and then entering order, and I don't like it so a whole new pos would need to be in place...but the website is the major thing that needs to be done first...

I am one person, doing 4 bazillion jobs, trying to sort out everything and keep my store looking nice...keeping a home and trying not to work 23 of my 24 hours each day...its a whole lot to juggle and some of it just isn't my cup of tea, like photos and fixing them, so it makes those jobs 10 times more difficult and I can make 1200 things way more important than them...I will admit I am afraid of running my biz with TF, there is no same in that..It is what I know and aometimes the thinking behind what we do is the hardest thing to overcome when making any kind of change...I know what I should do, but somehow the fear of the unknown overrules the right decision, many drug addicts and alcoholics know that their lifestyle is killing them but sometimes it takes years for them to make the change, you would think death would be and overwhelming decision maker, but somehow it isn't the fear of sickness and general hardness of withdrawals trumps over death as a final result...silly but the mind is sometmes a very silly thing...

 

[bootcampguy]

............................it takes years for them to make the change, you would think death would be and overwhelming decision maker, but somehow it isn't the fear of sickness and general hardness of withdrawals trumps over death as a final result...silly but the mind is sometmes a very silly thing........

I had a POS system for years that I knew was overpriced and not doing what I needed it to do, so I went to third party software (marketing). I now have switched to a new POS or will next Monday (it took a vist to the wizard for some courage) for me to switch. I don't mind paying fees, but I have to be control of the process...............

 

[NicoleAtTF]

Okay, all, sorry it's taken me two days to get here and see the thread! I haven't had a chance to read all 6 pages, yet, so I'm just going to share what I think are probably the key responses based on the things I saw in the first two pages or so...

1) $400 does seem like a lot, I agree. A couple of things about that, though... It's only $50 more than the FSG back in 2003, which really is amazing considering the across the board raises in price for things from all wire services. We worked hard to keep the price as low as we could.

Also, the price is more, but we used really high quality products on this book. We used special waterproof paper, as we know that wasn't a feature on the old book and that was a problem. This paper is SERIOUSLY waterproof. We put a sheet in a tank of water for a week (submerged) and when we pulled it out the water wicked off and the sheet was fine.

2) Plus, you all hit the nail on the head that producing a work like this takes a lot of people and resources. We wanted this to be great because it's going to become a living document. We hope to not have to create another new book in 7 years and that's what leads to the point about the fee. This book will be regularly updated so you don't have tons of little aggravating web catalogs floating around - you'll just have sheets you can slot into the book and keep a single easy to use, comprehensive tool around. That means that in 7 years (we expect - obviously can't promise as 7 years is a long time) there won't be another big expenditure on a book. That's our long view on this one.

3) Timing. We really wrestled with the timing but decided to go with it as soon as we had it ready so that the new products (and hopefully more compelling mix of price points - since we heard feedback that the range of prices needed to be tweaked a bit) could be presented to your clients in your shop via the book or on your website in time for your big holiday seasons (Christmas, Valentine's, Mother's Day).

I hope that's all brief enough to not be overwhelming but descriptive enough to make sense. And I promise we'll read everything you've all said and do our best to respond or take your suggestions into our plans going forward.

 

[Grandma Nancy]

10/15/10
I'm glad I'm not the only one who dropped my uppers on the price of the new catalogs--it also costs $400 to get an additional workbook
and $15.00 a month for updates. I doubt if the wire service still has 20,000 members. In Michigan many florists are dropping the wire
services--including shops with multiple locations. They have found that the decreased gross sales without the wire services has yielded
higher profitabillity. It is also called survival.

Grandma Nancy

 

[dale911]

try mypublisher.com to create your books. They are always having half price and buy1 get 1 free books. There are several printing options and they produce phenominal work at a low cost. I had books made for my wedding a couple years ago and will be creating a photo book of our work in the next couple weeks for our bridal customers.

On a side note, in order for a wire service to be profitable, you have to send more than you receive. I have recently canceled TF and am finishing my remaining months. I have my membership stripped to the bare essentials. With that said, we did 27 orders valued at 1700 value. My take at the end of the month? $83. That's less than $4 to make each order. Didn't even pay for the vase. See if that math makes you feel like you need to depend on the wire services to survive...

 

[Eric S]

We hope to not have to create another new book in 7 years.

I would hope there wouldn't be a need for another book in the future.

I really don't understand the need for a book anymore and I think that's the big problem.

You want to make us pay for the design book fine. But something that a customer would use is just going to be waste of money.

They use the web at home or on their phone or if they walk into my store they see our website on a monitor that is set up just for them.

 

[CHR]

The only folks asking to 'see a book' are over 50. We use our site our 'our book' and it works great. For holidays and prom we print a menu and have it on the counters for walk-ins.

I DO like the idea of going through Ritz or one of the other services, though....

Just to chime in about the cost of a WS book - it takes a ton of resources to produce one. For every flower you see, there are 10-20 that get trashed. Think of all the people it takes to plan, shoot, organize, cost out, order flowers & containers, design, write descriptions, produce pricing CDs, print and ship one of those catalogs. The investment is immense.

At $400, if you use it for 7 years, your cost is .16 a day - and most florists would have no website, no visual selling tools without it. You'd get licensing for about 16 high quality (printable) images from a photo service for the same price - and still have to write your own descriptions.

 

[lori042499]

Cathy, you are so right and I am sure this is just displaced anger on my part, this last year was so hard for so many financially that this is just one of those badly timed sums of money that seems insensitive on TF's part...I totally understand why they needed a new book, I totally understand that they have a business to run and need revenue and I also understand what they have to do to compete to come out on top for wire services....I hope when the book comes I like it, I hope I feel it is worth the money and I hope that the arrangements are saleable for me especially the sympathy section, that is what I depend on most...I hope that the pricing cd works well and I can get things to my specs easily without days and months sitting with the book and a calculator, just for them to add 30 more web designs in 3 months to add to the task...we shall see...