Wire Services Are Buying Your Customer

[inferno63]

So, if I want $100 worth of arrangement and delivery, I have to pay you $125.00???

That is 3-4 times the average wire-out fee (as far as I know). How is that a good value for your customer over the shop down the street charging a $5 fee for the same flowers?

I don't charge over $10 for sending. Read my post.

 

[RWK]

I don't charge over $10 for sending. Read my post.

I did read the post and I understood that the charge for sending the order was a percentage....not a flat fee.

Is it 10 percent of the selling price UP to but not exceeding 10 dollars for the sending fee then?

.....Hearkening back to an earlier post, it seems that you are making the wire service(s) work in your favor........Am I understanding this correctly....if I am, please elaborate further on how you do this please.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

let's clear this up.......
Inferno takes his 20% commission from HIS customers, THEN sends out the ENTIRE 80% balance to the "filling florist" by way of a shop CC, and it's up to the filling florist to "accept" the order, and fill it to value given....am I correct??
On a 100 dollar order, he keeps $20 and sends $80 to the fill florist, am I correct?
The fill florist says "YES" I can do it , or "NO" I cannot do it...am I correct??
He has set his incoming values high enough to "ward" off evil incoming OG orders...am I correct??
IF a "sending" florists sends YOU (Inferno), an order for $50 bucks WILL YOU do it??...am I correct??

 

[bloomz]

So let me get this right. You get outraged with the wire services because they are taking advantage of florists. But you have no problem with setting a $75.00 minimum order for your incoming but you are willing to send orders for whatever the other florist is willing to accept........and you are very willing to skim 20% off the top for your services.

Isn't that what the wire services are doing?

I don't think you are really playing a good game here. The one that loses here is the customer. You have just priced them out of everyday flowers.

This is akin to stalking.

Now you are a skimmer.

It would probably benefit you to drop the WS. Then, stop sending orders or send at 100% and charge a sending fee.

This is not even fuzzy math - it's something *better* than that.

Hostility? You won't find a lot of empathy here after admitting to curtailing (the nice word for skimming)

What are you educating customers about?

Flowers are a bad value?

 

[sha]

Check into who backs the Florarama franchise!!!! The Florarama shops are suppose to get great discounts on flowers from the industry that is suppose to be backing the Mom and Pop florist.
On another note, when calling a florist in another city, or state, I always had the problem of who gets to charge tax. I thought the point of sale was to tax the order, or is it the florist that is taking the call from your shop?

 

[fairfield]

...I educate my customer, save them money, and get repeat business. What is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that. That is a beautiful thing that we are all doing.

The 20% usually amounts to an average of $8 to $10 that the customer is aware of as a "sending fee". No matter what you call it, the money the customer spends is the same. You imply that I am deceiving my customer which in fact I am not. They are entirely in the know as to what they are spending and for what.

The dollar amount for a percentage based fee grows when the difficulty in sending is actually reduced - i.e. it is actually easier to get a receiving shop to accept a $100 order than it is to accept a $40 order. Just look at your own example:

I also think you are misunderstanding my $75 incoming minimum. That is ONLY for wire orders, not for my direct customers. That $75 minimum breaks down like this: $75 - 27% ($20.25) - delivery (8.50) - cogs (avg. $23) - labor (avg. $12) = $11.25 in my pocket. Would you accept less than $11.25 to fill a wire service order?

You will accept a $100 order, but not a $40 order.

I use one wire service because I want to target the customers that use them and turn them into direct customers.

It appears that you are actually targeting only those that will/can spend $75 or more. Furthermore, you are only turning the incoming wire customers into direct customers and charging your local customers to send their outgoing orders for them. If you truly want to get customers to go direct, then you should be encouraging your local customers to also send direct. This would be reciprocating the effect. If you accepted an order that I sent to you over the wire and you turned around and told my customer that they spent too much, I would take that as a slap in the face.

Wow, the hostility is unbecoming of a people smelling flowers all day? Are you for wire services or against. I don't understand.

Please don't misconstrue emphatic with hostility. I am emphatic about customers going direct in both directions, but not being subject to penalty if they choose to go through a real florist using a WS.

You seem to understand the pitfalls associated with the WS's, but I don't think your solution is going to help instill confidence in the floral consumer. I said earlier that you should get out of the WS and I'll stand behind that statement - not because you failed at the WS, but because you obviously don't need or like the WS.

 

[mrflowermarket]

Sales tax

On another note, when calling a florist in another city, or state, I always had the problem of who gets to charge tax. I thought the point of sale was to tax the order, or is it the florist that is taking the call from your shop?

The way tax works is that you(at point of sale) collect sales tax. The filling florist, armed with your sales tax # then makes a tax exempt sale to you. You as the originator of the sale are legally obligated to collect and pay sales tax on it based on the laws of your state(or wherever you live cuz some municipalities have a sales tax as well). The filling florist is required to have your sales tax information on file and then they are able to carry out this transaction tax free. Check with your local tax office or accountant for sure, but that is how our state works it.

 

[mrflowermarket]

I was responding to sha-- that quote thing didn't work the way I thought.--oh, well, maybe next time.

 

[Excptnl]

It's an old point, but I do always enjoy hearing people complain about OGs stealing "our" customers.

If they were OUR customers, they would be ordering from us.

If someone orders from a different business, it's because we did not give them a good enough reason to order from us in the first place, or keep ordering from us. That's our fault, and has nothing to do with the wallet size of the competition.

Ryan

How are they "your" customers if you do nothing to obtain them? Are you spending the $15 to get them? Most likely not. You remind me of the guy watching tv, looking at the love of his life Kate Beckinsale and saying" That's my girl" Instead of bltching and moaning, why not get in the game and spend some money getting customers to come to you, instead of tf and ftd

 

[Excptnl]

Joe's statement of "opting out isn't going to change them" is absolutely correct."

If they have less florists to fill orders and pay ridiculus membership fees, how can it not change them?

FTD is constantly signing new members...some of them are not even floral shops. There's always some hump out there with a dollar and a dream. A dream of opening a florist. For every one of you that drops the wire service, there's 2 more to take your place

 

[RWK]

FTD is constantly signing new members...some of them are not even floral shops. There's always some hump out there with a dollar and a dream. A dream of opening a florist. For every one of you that drops the wire service, there's 2 more to take your place

Exactly - However, This is where WE as PROFESSIONAL florists, with QUALIFIED designers, and ASTUTE business people, all armed with QUALITY product, DELIVERY personell who go the extra mile, and GREAT sales and support staff WILL TRIUMPH in the end over those humps........and eventually the DOT.cons simply because people will eventually grow tired of scams, mediocrity, and flowers in a box or just tossed into a vase with no thought or planning,
btw....your so eloquent phraseing earned you a green dot from me.

 

[inferno63]

This is not even fuzzy math - it's something *better* than that.

Hostility? You won't find a lot of empathy here after admitting to curtailing (the nice word for skimming)

What are you educating customers about?

Flowers are a bad value?

If my customer wants to go direct then that is their choice. I offer a service for a fee that they are told about and understand. If they want me to call a florist direct for that fee then that is their choice. Reread my posts, I do refer them direct if that is their wish.

What math are you talking about?

 

[inferno63]

I did read the post and I understood that the charge for sending the order was a percentage....not a flat fee.

Is it 10 percent of the selling price UP to but not exceeding 10 dollars for the sending fee then?

.....Hearkening back to an earlier post, it seems that you are making the wire service(s) work in your favor........Am I understanding this correctly....if I am, please elaborate further on how you do this please.

Maybe because it is in two different posts. I charge 20% or $10 whichever is lower.

 

[inferno63]

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you. You are indeed correct but I don't charge over $10 to my customer to send an order to another florist. 20% or $10 whichever is lower. I am

 

[inferno63]

let's clear this up.......
Inferno takes his 20% commission from HIS customers, THEN sends out the ENTIRE 80% balance to the "filling florist" by way of a shop CC, and it's up to the filling florist to "accept" the order, and fill it to value given....am I correct??
On a 100 dollar order, he keeps $20 and sends $80 to the fill florist, am I correct?
The fill florist says "YES" I can do it , or "NO" I cannot do it...am I correct??
He has set his incoming values high enough to "ward" off evil incoming OG orders...am I correct??
IF a "sending" florists sends YOU (Inferno), an order for $50 bucks WILL YOU do it??...am I correct??

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are indeed correct but I don't charge over $10. It is 20% or $10 whichever is lower.

 

[bloomz]

How are they "your" customers if you do nothing to obtain them? Are you spending the $15 to get them? Most likely not. You remind me of the guy watching tv, looking at the love of his life Kate Beckinsale and saying" That's my girl" Instead of bltching and moaning, why not get in the game and spend some money getting customers to come to you, instead of tf and ftd

Hey Hey Hey!

Stop making sense.

Don't you know it's more productive to gripe about them up in here?

 

[fairfield]

Normally, I would not post a PM but inferno63 tried to post and had difficulty so I will post it. I emphasized inferno63's statements.

There is nothing wrong with that. That is a beautiful thing that we are all doing.



The dollar amount for a percentage based fee grows when the difficulty in sending is actually reduced - i.e. it is actually easier to get a receiving shop to accept a $100 order than it is to accept a $40 order. Just look at your own example:



You will accept a $100 order, but not a $40 order.

Not true. My minimums for wire services are $75 because that is what I have to have to justify my cogs. For a direct order from another florist my minimum is $30 plus delivery in my pocket. I have no minimum for my direct customers. I have delivered an $8 bud vase for a direct customer.



It appears that you are actually targeting only those that will/can spend $75 or more. Furthermore, you are only turning the incoming wire customers into direct customers and charging your local customers to send their outgoing orders for them. If you truly want to get customers to go direct, then you should be encouraging your local customers to also send direct. This would be reciprocating the effect. If you accepted an order that I sent to you over the wire and you turned around and told my customer that they spent too much, I would take that as a slap in the face.

Reread my posts. There are times I do refer my customer direct to save them money but I offer to do it for them if they want to pay the 20% fee or $10 whichever is lower.

I am targeting those who don't spend $75 using a wire service also. I don't fill their orders but the WS sends me the recipient name and address which I add to my mailing list for direct marketing.

You are misunderstanding me completely. I am a professional florist, therefore I am on your side. I would NEVER tell a customer of another florist that they spent too much. But I do tell a customer of the WS that they spent too much and I won't apologize for that. I have a healthy and ethically correct relationship with florists in my area. I do compete with them and them with me but that competition is respectful and healthy. Prices and quality speak for themselves. I don't have to bad mouth other florists. If that is the only way to compete then I would be mis-managing my business. I am not in direct competition with florists far away and respect their businesses. You are picking out what I say and making yourself the target instead of the wire services.



Please don't misconstrue emphatic with hostility. I am emphatic about customers going direct in both directions, but not being subject to penalty if they choose to go through a real florist using a WS.

You seem to understand the pitfalls associated with the WS's, but I don't think your solution is going to help instill confidence in the floral consumer. I said earlier that you should get out of the WS and I'll stand behind that statement - not because you failed at the WS, but because you obviously don't need or like the WS.

[/QUOTE]

Is a direct customer's credit card payment better than mine? You say you need a minimum $30 in your pocket from a florist customer (f2f), yet a non-florist customer has a minimum as low as $8 (plus delivery I'm guessing). For the sake of Pete!!! Is there no end to your financial assaults on those you unreasonably deem not-worthy???

Reading and re-reading your posts makes no difference. Your sending fee structure amendment is duly noted. Remember, I can't read minds so you need to put these tidbits in your posts.

As far as marketing to the recipients of orders you do not accept: Do you hand out business cards in your competitors shop while soapboxing to their patrons about how they are getting ripped off? Oh, I know, re-read your posts - you only do that for those piddly little customer orders that are sent through the wire service.

Why don't you drop the wire service and put your energy into being a florist of good value to all of your customers instead of just the privileged few.

You are picking out what I say and making yourself the target instead of the wire services.

I am not making myself out to be anything. You need to understand that your punitive methods of "targeting" the WS's and your overpricing of f2f orders only hurts two entities in the long run - customers and your shop. If my cash/check/house charge customer wants me to send a $25 bud vase in your area, I cannot send the order to you because it does not meet your minimum. If there is no one else to take the order, then my customer is SOL unless I can FedEx a gift of, say, chocolate truffles... Hmmm... Thanks for the idea inferno63!:wallhead:

 

[fairfield]

And Ryan, before you hammer on me for saying "my" customer, I am using it in the context of the customer having already paid me to perform the service. I am not using it in the context of customers in my general area are mine.

Just wanted to make that clear.:tongue:

 

[theRKF]

And Ryan, before you hammer on me for saying "my" customer, I am using it in the context of the customer having already paid me to perform the service. I am not using it in the context of customers in my general area are mine.

Just wanted to make that clear.:tongue:

Duly noted lol

 

[bloomz]

let's clear this up.......
Inferno takes his 20% commission from HIS customers, THEN sends out the ENTIRE 80% balance to the "filling florist" by way of a shop CC, and it's up to the filling florist to "accept" the order, and fill it to value given....am I correct??
On a 100 dollar order, he keeps $20 and sends $80 to the fill florist, am I correct?

And the customer spent $100 to get an $80 arrangement?

No I would never knowingly fill that.

As far as marketing to the recipients of orders you do not accept: You need to understand that your punitive methods of "targeting" the WS's and your overpricing of f2f orders only hurts two entities in the long run - customers and your shop. If my cash/check/house charge customer wants me to send a $25 bud vase in your area, I cannot send the order to you because it does not meet your minimum. If there is no one else to take the order, then my customer is SOL unless I can FedEx a gift of, say, chocolate truffles... Hmmm... Thanks for the idea inferno63!:wallhead:

I understand and even approve of fighting dirty against the wire service's customers, but not at all against other florist's customers.

OK time for bed, just wanted to remain a part of the argument. :ssmoke