Wire Services Are Buying Your Customer

[inferno63]

And the customer spent $100 to get an $80 arrangement?

No I would never knowingly fill that.




I understand and even approve of fighting dirty against the wire service's customers, but not at all against other florist's customers.

OK time for bed, just wanted to remain a part of the argument. :ssmoke

I only add the WS customers to my mailing list and direct market to them. I don't fight dirty with other florist's customers either. I won't apologize for my methods with WS customers. WS cast the first stone with their tactics. I don't considered myself angry nor will I waste my energy "hating"....I simply am using a stratedgy of competition against WS. I am taking back customers that should belong to the florists. I think most here are the ones angry, not me. I am on the defense, not offense. I am not a WS, same side guys.

 

[inferno63]

Normally, I would not post a PM but inferno63 tried to post and had difficulty so I will post it. I emphasized inferno63's statements.



Is a direct customer's credit card payment better than mine? You say you need a minimum $30 in your pocket from a florist customer (f2f), yet a non-florist customer has a minimum as low as $8 (plus delivery I'm guessing). For the sake of Pete!!! Is there no end to your financial assaults on those you unreasonably deem not-worthy???

Reading and re-reading your posts makes no difference. Your sending fee structure amendment is duly noted. Remember, I can't read minds so you need to put these tidbits in your posts.

As far as marketing to the recipients of orders you do not accept: Do you hand out business cards in your competitors shop while soapboxing to their patrons about how they are getting ripped off? Oh, I know, re-read your posts - you only do that for those piddly little customer orders that are sent through the wire service.

Why don't you drop the wire service and put your energy into being a florist of good value to all of your customers instead of just the privileged few.



I am not making myself out to be anything. You need to understand that your punitive methods of "targeting" the WS's and your overpricing of f2f orders only hurts two entities in the long run - customers and your shop. If my cash/check/house charge customer wants me to send a $25 bud vase in your area, I cannot send the order to you because it does not meet your minimum. If there is no one else to take the order, then my customer is SOL unless I can FedEx a gift of, say, chocolate truffles... Hmmm... Thanks for the idea inferno63!:wallhead:

Oh, I'm tired.....I have to have minimums to keep my doors open. I have an accounting/finance degree also and spent many years in that field. I run the numbers and make decisions based on those numbers. And absolutely YES I will deliver an $8 bud vase for a regular customer that spends hundreds of dollars in my shop each year. My limited resources absolutely must be directed to the areas that keep my shop open. I have been told by many, many other florists a minimum that I must meet in order for them to take my order. I understand that minimum because they too must operate profitability. If I did everything at cost or below this would be a hobby and not a business that contributes to the food on my table. Make whatever assumptions about this that make you feel comfortable. I have orders to fill. Thank you for the debate. It was helpful.

 

[bloomz]

I only add the WS customers to my mailing list and direct market to them. I don't fight dirty with other florist's customers either. I won't apologize for my methods with WS customers. WS cast the first stone with their tactics. I don't considered myself angry nor will I waste my energy "hating"....I simply am using a stratedgy of competition against WS. I am taking back customers that should belong to the florists. I think most here are the ones angry, not me. I am on the defense, not offense. I am not a WS, same side guys.

The gloves are off when it comes to fighting wire services for orders.

Thanks for clarifying.

Ripping a customer back from them could be Art in its highest form.

 

[fairfield]

Oh, I'm tired.....I have to have minimums to keep my doors open.

I know you've already said that you have an f2f minimum of $30.

Would you take an order from an Oregon customer that had $25 to spend on a bud vase going to your town?

If so, then why wouldn't you do the same order f2f from an Oregon florist?

I have heard over and over that it is ridiculous that florists refuse low-dollar f2f orders - "You know that they have a bud or midi vase in their cooler ready to go..."

My minimum for sending a medium-sized non-specific mixed arrangement is $55.00 total to the customer, but I do have customers come in a few times a year that only have $30-$35 to spend. If I don't get their order sent, then they may end up at www(dot)scumOGthatoffers50%offwithfreedeliverythatwillpissyouoffsobadyouwillneverthinkofflowersagain(dot)con.

I would much rather you get the order over the scumOG or me FedExing something.

 

[sha]

Thank you, This is what I try to explain to florist when I sent an order out in my state. Yet, you would be surprised at ones that still would tax the order again in their state. As they would say, I have to pay taxes too. I just wanted another opinion and to see if I was doing the right thing.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Thank you, This is what I try to explain to florist when I sent an order out in my state. Yet, you would be surprised at ones that still would tax the order again in their state. As they would say, I have to pay taxes too. I just wanted another opinion and to see if I was doing the right thing.

Do you provide every florist that accepts your "wire order" with your state's sales tax number?

If not, you should.

I don't know why any flower shop would want to accept your direct order without your sales tax id. Why? because if they get audited by their state's department of revenue, they will have to pay the sales tax to their state. They will have to prove that you collected the sales tax in your state.

Joe

 

[fairfield]

Do you provide every florist that accepts your "wire order" with your state's sales tax number?

If not, you should.

I don't know why any flower shop would want to accept your direct order without your sales tax id. Why? because if they get audited by their state's department of revenue, they will have to pay the sales tax to their state. They will have to prove that you collected the sales tax in your state.

Joe

Joe - if I sent you an order, would you charge me sales tax? We have no sales tax in Oregon. I have a federal EIN and a state business ID number. Would those work for you?

 

[bloomz]

I would Jason.

 

[fairfield]

I would Jason.

I meant would you as - are you going to?

I did not mean it as - would you, please?

 

[bloomz]

Yes on both.

 

[TOTO]

Not Rocket Scientists Either Sharon!

Thank you, This is what I try to explain to a florist when I send an order out in my state. Yet, you would be surprised at ones that still would tax the order again in their state. As they would say, I have to pay taxes too. I just wanted another opinion and to see if I was doing the right thing.

Sadly Sharon, the vast majority of US WEE BEES are just HARD WORKING MOM and POP Slobs. (no disrespect intended)

They LOVE what they DO and most of them are Talented and Creative Artists whose only real mission in life, is to MAKE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS HAPPY!

Since all of us are in the COMMUNICATION BUSINESS, albeit by our Flowers, which send a message of love or caring from one human being to another, their other BUSINESS DETAILS are not always a priority.

Accordingly, many florists relegate and delegate the BUSINESS END of THEIR BUSINESS to a BOOKKEEPER and/or an ACCOUNTANT.

And then, and sometimes, their BOOKKEEPER and/or ACCOUNTANT don't have a clue as to just how to reconcile a WS Statement, or in your case, how to treat a NON-SALES-TAXABLE SALE from one florist to another.

All STATES have adopted the same RULES for their State's Sales Tax collection venues. In every case, the SALES TAX is collected at THE POINT OF SALE ONLY, and cannot be collected twice.

In NYS, our sales tax is collected at OUR POINT OF SALE and in NYS, that is dictated by the POINT OF DELIVERY in NYS. Since we have different sales tax rates for different areas in NYS and/or cities, we collect that POINT OF DELIVERY SALES TAX and pay that rate to our state.

For Example, and if we have a sale in Hartsdale, but it's being delivered to Yonkers, we are required to collect the Yonkers Sales Tax rate.

On the FLIP SIDE, and when we are sending an order OUT OF STATE, we collect the NYS Sales tax at our POINT OF SALE and the order is sent out to another florist in that other state as a NON-SALES-TAXABLE SALE to that florist, and they should treat our sale as such.

We are more than happy to give them our NYS RESALE NUMBER if that is sufficient, or even fax them or email them, our NYS FORM ST-120 Resale Certificate which they can keep on file for their States' Sales Tax Agency.

Just had one in Manteo, NC and a member of FC. We sent him an order via IFA for a Spring Floral Arrangement for a GROSS AMOUNT of $95.00 which netted him $76.00 inclusive of delivery. A pretty good sale in our book.

Anyway, low and behold, he billed our credit card for $81.32 which included his sales tax of $5.32, possibly due to his POS System and the fact that, they did not override the sales tax and treat our sale as NON-SALES-TAXABLE.

I faxed them a copy of our ST-120 RESALE CERTIFICATE along with our explanation, called the shop three times, and still have yet to speak with the owner regarding the resolution of the added charges.

I'll give him one other call, after which, I'll just dispute the charge with AMX and cite the details of the correct charge along with the hard copy his shop received showing the exact net charge to us.

The funny part is that, this florist, and after I spent 20 minutes on the telephone in my efforts to sell him on his advantages of accepting MY IFA order at net 80% to him with cash payment within 48 hours in his account rather than 71% net to him via a WS, plus waiting 30 to 45 days for payment, still didn't seem to get it. Although, he did complain to me that, the WSs were STEALING HIS MORTGAGE PAYMENT MONEY from him! What's up with that type of rationale, other than, BEING STUCK ON STUPID!

Keep the faith and keep continuing to try and EDUCATE the other florists who LOVE WHAT THEY'RE DOO-ING and just need to acquire the BUSINESS ACUMEN which will allow them to KEEP DOO-ING WHAT THEY LOVE TO DO!

In closing, I would suggest that you join IFA, the Independent Florist's Association to send your out-of-town orders out. www.myifa.org

It only costs you $20 per month, and only when you send out orders, otherwise IT'S FREE MEMBERSHIP and with NO ORDER TRANMISSION CHARGES.

We like to call those shops first, just to give them the heads up, and we ask for the OWNER or MANAGER since most CLERKS DON'T HAVE A CLUE!

Once we've concluded that we've spoken to someone at that shop who HAS A BRAIN, that's when we send our IFA order to them.

When we hit upon a DITSY DUNCE, we simply move on to the next shop with the hopes that, the person answering their telephone, HAS A CLUE! lol

And, I do have to remind you that, the WSs rely on DITSY DUNCES who DOO NOT HAVE A CLUE since, THEY LOVE TO DOO WHAT THEY DOO, and NO MATTER if they're making any money at it, or NOT!

Those shops just REALLY LOVE to get THEIR FLOWERS into the homes of recipients and regardless of THE LOSSES because, SOMEDAY, SOME WAY, those recipients, will become THEIR CUSTOMERS, and spend LOTS of MONEY in their SHOPS, and so, the losses are all worth it. And yes, VIRGINIA, there is a SANTA CLAUS! :rofl:

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe - if I sent you an order, would you charge me sales tax? We have no sales tax in Oregon. I have a federal EIN and a state business ID number. Would those work for you?

No, I would not charge you sales tax. Yes, state business ID would provide me with some sort of documentation that you are a business and not a retail customer? I am not sure whether the Fed EIN would be acceptable. Good question, I will ask my accountant.

To continue.... here is an example.

I have to charge all retail customers sales tax when they order on my website.

So if I have a retail customer from Oregon who logs onto my website, buys flowers for local delivery here in my area, the customer will pay Il sales tax of 6.25pct.

Now if you call me up, and order an arrangement for this same customer I would not deduct sales tax from the sale, but would ask for some sort of Oregon state business identification.

My point is, if I get audited by the Illinois Department of Revenue, I don't want to go back and have to collect business' sales tax ID's or other documentation.

joe

 

[Kristine]

I am not sure whether the Fed EIN would be acceptable.

joe

good or bad, In Michigan your federal ein is also your sales tax number.

 

[Chezbloom]

" In closing, I would suggest that you join IFA, the Independent Florist's Association to send your order out. www.myifa.org"

I applied for membership to IFA months ago (online) and never heard back from them. Maybe they already have enough members in the Minneapolis area, I am surrounded by florists! Hmmmm?

 

[LJVF]

" In closing, I would suggest that you join IFA, the Independent Florist's Association to send your order out. www.myifa.org"

I applied for membership to IFA months ago (online) and never heard back from them. Maybe they already have enough members in the Minneapolis area, I am surrounded by florists! Hmmmm?

I applied about a month ago and heard right back from them. However, I haven't received an order yet.

 

[mrflowermarket]

Sales tax how-to

What we do is keep a copy or each sales tax documentation in a file as we recieve it. We also enter the Tax # in our computer when we remove the tax. We can set up individuals as tax exempt in our software, so that is how we handle it. And our staff all know how to do this, even though some of them play the stupid game. But if you check with the agency in your area that issues your sales tax permit they can tell you exactly how to handle it for your particular state. We also keep a copy of our own sales tax certificate near the register and fax machine so we can fax a copy if need be. I am always amazed how many shops I call are oblivious to the who tax exempt thing.:dunno: Best Wishes mrflowermarket

 

[TOTO]

Pick up the Telephone Kevin....

" In closing, I would suggest that you join IFA, the Independent Florist's Association to send your order out. www.myifa.org"

I applied for membership to IFA months ago (online) and never heard back from them. Maybe they already have enough members in the Minneapolis area, I am surrounded by florists! Hmmmm?

Hey Kevin: Give a call to Russ Schmitt, the President of IFA at Schmitt's Florist, Louisville, KY.

(502) 969-8579

Russ is a great guy and he will look into just why, you never heard back from IFA regarding your membership application.

On rare occasions, the system can have a Hiccup, just like everyone else's does too. I checked your City and only counted four filler shops, 3 are NON IFA but ELECTRONIC RECEIVERS and 1 is NON IFA and not an electronic receiver.

In fact, and when your membership is approved, you would be the ONE and ONLY IFA Member in your City.

 

[Chezbloom]

Groovy,

I don't know who Kevin is but I'll give Russ a call today!

thankie

 

[sha]

Thanks Toto
Yes , We Are All Hard Working And Gotta Love This Business To Stay In It. I Agree With You On The Taxes, There Are Just Some Business That Are Afraid Not Tax An Order On Their End Even With All The Information You Give Them. They Are Just Honest Working Florist And Do Not Understand. This Is Where Everyone Can Help When We Wire Out (not A Ws) An Order And Try To Educate Others In The Business. Thanks Everyone

 

[inferno63]

Oh, I'm tired.....I have to have minimums to keep my doors open. I have an accounting/finance degree also and spent many years in that field. I run the numbers and make decisions based on those numbers. And absolutely YES I will deliver an $8 bud vase for a regular customer that spends hundreds of dollars in my shop each year. My limited resources absolutely must be directed to the areas that keep my shop open. I have been told by many, many other florists a minimum that I must meet in order for them to take my order. I understand that minimum because they too must operate profitability. If I did everything at cost or below this would be a hobby and not a business that contributes to the food on my table. Make whatever assumptions about this that make you feel comfortable. I have orders to fill. Thank you for the debate. It was helpful.

Everything in my being is telling me to let this issue drop and go away or risk more of you posting negatively to my reputation but it just isn't in my character. I took all kinds of grief for my minimums for FTF orders. I just wanted to let everyone know that Wauchula, Florida has a florist with minimums. I was told that they needed $40 minimum plus $12 delivery. My customer didn't want to go over $42. I was willing to not charge my own fee. Anyway, I am going to assume that the florist I spoke to knows their business far better than I could and that they had that $52 minimum for a reason and the wonderful world of supply and demand will let them know if that is a good decision. Long story short....I found another florist in Wauchula who filled with delivery at $42. My minimum including delivery FTF was $30. Now after the wrath of this thread I am going to take FTF on a case-by-case basis considering all factors (not just the calculator) when I decide if I can help them. Now give me a second to duck and then blast away.