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goldfish said:
Why do (some) florists demand incoming orders so much? What caused them to increasingly rely on incoming orders?

I haven't been in this industry long enough, so the following is just my guess.

Some florists demand incoming orders because they don't have enough local orders to sustain their business. Why did they lose local customers, then?

Because (again, this is just my guess and no offense intended) they aren't providing a good "value." Not because these florists are doing anything sub-standard (although some of them probably are).

It is just that value perception of flowers has dramatically decreased, perhaps as much as 50% or more, compared to, say, 70's. As the result, consumers are now increasingly demanding more values (either in quantity or in quality) for the same dollar amount.

Most local florists couldn't or, more likely, wouldn't adapt to this shifting landscape of floral market. Consumers abandoned the local florists as the result.

The same pricing pressure has also pushed many traditional florists to niche market, such as Wedding Specialists. Although Event/Wedding Specialists has been relatively immune to the same pricing pressure as everyday florists have been experiencing, this relative sanctuary will not last forever.

I think that, for we local florists to not only survive but prosper, we need to increase the value of our offering, either in quantity or in quality or both. How can we do that without breaking the bank? - now that's the crux of the matter, as far as I'm concerned. That' the kind of thing I think about every day.
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I think you would be surprised at how many florists purchased shops that relied on incoming orders for one thing. (me) I also think as flower shops aged they relied on wire orders to provide busy -ness. Which they did, and no one paid attention to the ebb and flow of increasing charges. Plus, I think many florists believed/believe that wire service business made/makes you a bona fide florist. In other words, that it lends your shop credibility and stature of some type.(maybe me) That the sales teams from the wire service are incredibly effective, and once you're sold, you want more incomings to pay for it all.(me again) And that once you rely on wire business, it becomes easy to do what you have always done, and you measure success by how much you filled at the holidays, and how many orders you have processed.(me, once) More must mean better, right??

And when you start to come to your senses, they send the sales team back out, who quote the $$ you will "lose" . A smarter florist resists them. And gets a whole new plan.(me, hopefully)
 
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goldfish said:
Why do (some) florists demand incoming orders so much? What caused them to increasingly rely on incoming orders?

I haven't been in this industry long enough, so the following is just my guess.

Some florists demand incoming orders because they don't have enough local orders to sustain their business. Why did they lose local customers, then?

Because (again, this is just my guess and no offense intended) they aren't providing a good "value." Not because these florists are doing anything sub-standard (although some of them probably are).

It is just that value perception of flowers has dramatically decreased, perhaps as much as 50% or more, compared to, say, 70's. As the result, consumers are now increasingly demanding more values (either in quantity or in quality) for the same dollar amount.

Most local florists couldn't or, more likely, wouldn't adapt to this shifting landscape of floral market. Consumers abandoned the local florists as the result.

The same pricing pressure has also pushed many traditional florists to niche market, such as Wedding Specialists. Although Event/Wedding Specialists has been relatively immune to the same pricing pressure as everyday florists have been experiencing, this relative sanctuary will not last forever.

I think that, for we local florists to not only survive but prosper, we need to increase the value of our offering, either in quantity or in quality or both. How can we do that without breaking the bank? - now that's the crux of the matter, as far as I'm concerned. That' the kind of thing I think about every day.
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The slice of the pie that is now going through FTD.com 1-800, sendflowers.com etc once belonged 100% to local florists. Less than fifteen years ago there were no ordergatherers. The wire services were strictly used for the transfer of long distant orders between florists. Today, there is no distinction between long distant and local orders. Wire services and ordergatherers target all long distant and local sending consumers. So in a span of fifteen years the industry has changed dramatically in terms of wire services and their function within our industry. In effect florists replaced the loss of orders do to the ordergatherers with the new discounted orders provided by the same companies that took the orders away. This decrease in business has nothing to do with actual true value, but rather being out marketed and not being able to distinguish themselves as the better choice for customers.

The erosion of local business exacerbated the problem. Florists now were faced with less total volume and/or less 100% dollar volume. This caused many inefficiencies such as less productivity and higher overhead in relation to total revenue. Florists solution was to increase prices and to adapt new pricing structures to compensate for their inefficiencies. At the same time flowers were flooding in from South American countries creating many new venues available to the consumer for the purchase of lower priced flowers. This made florists looked overpriced.

I agree for florists to survive and flourish we need to increase the value of our offering, either in quantity or in quality or both. The answer how to do this isn't an easy one, but I believe the most important step is to increase volume. In today's world a $200,000 traditional florist has too much wrapped up in overhead expenses to operate efficiently enough to give the value the consumer is looking for.


RC
 
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Are OG's a transitionary business? I would tend to think yes.

At some point, the internet floral buyer will realize that they are paying a lot more money for OG orders than they would if they just Searched for a local flower shop in the recipients zip code.

think about how many shops here have websites.

As florists continue dropping the traditional WS relay service, and adopt websites, their will someday be a point where OG"s might collapse under the shear number of florists NOT WS affiliated anymore.

I know this may seem wishful thinking, but I can see it happening.

What will take the OG' place? Box store flower shops. Super WalMart and baby Walmarts will have a presence every 20 miles across the U.S. someday. That is one hell of a distribution network.

joe
 
I don't remember ever having signed a petition, or being asked to me part of an e-mail campaign to the WS, or boycotting all OG orders for a day or a week such as MD week.

I believe that there are things we can do. We haven't ever tried any of the above so why are we just saying it can not be done.

I don't even recall the being a poll done on any of the above to see if we could get enough on board to make a difference.

I have been here since the beginning, if this is what we call giving it our best shot than we are all in trouble.

Joan
 
Joan has a point. I posted in another thread about a petition to the wire services for a clear and concise statement, listing all the charges in an easy to read format. It's a small start, I know. But I think it's worthy. SAF could help, who knows. I am contacting them this week, and I am going to work on this. It may be small, but I have wasted better time on less.
 
RC is right when he says what has happened to our market. Everyone is selling flowers, my goodness, the drug stores, grocery stores, home depot, lowes, gas stations all sell flowers at major holidays. This has cut the flower shop bread & butter sales to bare bones. I for one am taking the final steps to eliminate my last WS. When I bought the shop 8 yrs ago, it was a 90% WS shop, 1800, TF & FTD. Soon I am going it alone without them because I have crunched the numbers, I can make more money without them & them I won't have to fight to keep my pennies from them. We do have alternatives just many will not make the stand because so many truly believe they are making money. I would be the 1st to sign the petition to advocate change but they are not going to give up their money. First & foremost, we are paying them, they should not be taking orders from people in our areas & then sending them to us after keeping their 30%. Their commissions need to be a little more realistic say 7-10% period!!! Basically, I think they should just get a flat fee $3-5 for getting an order for us to fill. Why should they get more??? Do we pay commissions as high for any other people getting an order for us?? NO! I am boycotting them all until something is changed. I'll either survive or I won't but I refuse to work so hard only to see the $3-4K checks I am sending TF every month. Insanity is doing the same thing over & over again, expecting different results... I am no longer insane!
 
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati said:
This decrease in business has nothing to do with actual true value, but rather being out marketed and not being able to distinguish themselves as the better choice for customers.

I agree for florists to survive and flourish we need to increase the value of our offering, either in quantity or in quality or both.
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At the risk of repeating myself for the ??? time, it's hard to tell consumers 'use me and not them' when your product all looks like it is all from 'them'.

Joe Mioux said:
At some point, the internet floral buyer will realize that they are paying a lot more money for OG orders than they would if they just Searched for a local flower shop in the recipients zip code.
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Joe, I wish that were true. I Googled a couple popular FTD products (like the FTD Stunning Beauty) and expected to see them sold for less on most local florists' sites, since FTD is also supposed to include 'delivery' padded into their prices. My random sampling showed that more than 50% of the shops were higher.

Of course, their delivery fees were far less that FTD's $13-14 handling fee, but since it's not disclosed until further in the shopping cart, surface comparisons make the locals look like they cost more.

I wonder if those same stores are filling .com orders? If so, they're crazy.

Knife's Wife said:
I don't remember ever having signed a petition, or being asked to me part of an e-mail campaign to the WS, or boycotting all OG orders for a day or a week such as MD week.

I believe that there are things we can do. We haven't ever tried any of the above so why are we just saying it can not be done.
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Joan, I believe we should petition the WS (and all florists) to clearly disclose and label all fees before a consumer enters a shopping cart check-out or is asked for a CC number over the phone.

OG should have to apportion local delivery and handling charges/service fees - and only then can consumers make true comparisons of all the costs associated with their purchases.

Airlines and rental car companies have to do it. So should we. If you recall, we all used to have to - it was one of the important rules enforced by the FTDA - and worked well for 80 years.
 
yellad said:
Lori: who said anything about paying for it? Did you ever hear about "shame on you" and stuff
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Likin the Shame on You Thing. Definitely expandable if someone bites but it would have to be a major player in reporting and very carefully executed.
 
CHR said:
At the risk of repeating myself for the ??? time, it's hard to tell consumers 'use me and not them' when your product all looks like it is all from 'them'.

Joe, I wish that were true. I Googled a couple popular FTD products (like the FTD Stunning Beauty) and expected to see them sold for less on most local florists' sites, since FTD is also supposed to include 'delivery' padded into their prices. My random sampling showed that more than 50% of the shops were higher.

Of course, their delivery fees were far less that FTD's $13-14 handling fee, but since it's not disclosed until further in the shopping cart, surface comparisons make the locals look like they cost more.

I wonder if those same stores are filling .com orders? If so, they're crazy.



Joan, I believe we should petition the WS (and all florists) to clearly disclose and label all fees before a consumer enters a shopping cart check-out or is asked for a CC number over the phone.

OG should have to apportion local delivery and handling charges/service fees - and only then can consumers make true comparisons of all the costs associated with their purchases.

Airlines and rental car companies have to do it. So should we. If you recall, we all used to have to - it was one of the important rules enforced by the FTDA - and worked well for 80 years.
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DITTO !

I'll sign it !
 
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati said:
The erosion of local business exacerbated the problem. Florists now were faced with less total volume and/or less 100% dollar volume.
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That's the interesting way of looking at the situation. You are probably right. Neither choice is good.

RC in Dayton and Cincinnati said:
This caused many inefficiencies such as less productivity and higher overhead in relation to total revenue. Florists solution was to increase prices and to adapt new pricing structures to compensate for their inefficiencies. At the same time flowers were flooding in from South American countries creating many new venues available to the consumer for the purchase of lower priced flowers. This made florists looked overpriced.
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I agree with your analysis.

I also think that there probably was a naiveness factor of typical traditional florists in terms of business competition. When their market was being invaded right in front of their eyes (e.g., when supermarkets started selling flowers), I've heard that the majority of florists even denied the serious threat was beginning to emerge.

By the same token, it's not difficult to imagine that the same thing happened when the first OG started operating (1-800-flowers). I'm guessing that most florists didn't recognize the threat.

I believe that DIY is a serious threat. I consider ProFlowers to be one of the DIY vendors. But I don't think an average florist is doing anything about it (Complaining doesn't count).

RC in Dayton and Cincinnati said:
I agree for florists to survive and flourish we need to increase the value of our offering, either in quantity or in quality or both. The answer how to do this isn't an easy one, but I believe the most important step is to increase volume. In today's world a $200,000 traditional florist has too much wrapped up in overhead expenses to operate efficiently enough to give the value the consumer is looking for.
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I think that a florist with less than $1 mil revenue won't survive as a financially independent business in the near future. If the owner's family has a separate income, they may be able to keep the store, but otherwise, it's going to be difficult.

The problem is... for a small florist to grow and prosper in this environment is like a chicken-egg dilemma. Unless you have a certain sizable revenue to begin with, you can hardly finance the common strategies to expand your market. Volume purchasing, aggressive pricing, etc, all require money. I think that, if anyone succeeds (I'm sure someone will), that person would have to be very smart or very lucky or perhaps both.
 
Knife's Wife said:
I don't remember ever having signed a petition, or being asked to me part of an e-mail campaign to the WS, or boycotting all OG orders for a day or a week such as MD week.

I believe that there are things we can do. We haven't ever tried any of the above so why are we just saying it can not be done.

I don't even recall the being a poll done on any of the above to see if we could get enough on board to make a difference.

I have been here since the beginning, if this is what we call giving it our best shot than we are all in trouble.

Joan
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Not saying it can't be done, saying it won't be done....The fact that all the florists in my area are WS affiliated and are not going to drop them is a fact....boycott or no boycott..florists are afraid to rock the ws boat and even more afraid to give up those orders to the competition...even if it means making marginal money on them..at leasy our name is on them and we may get to be known...not saying iut is the right way to think, but never the less it is the way most florists think.
 
Knife's Wife said:
I don't remember ever having signed a petition, or being asked to me part of an e-mail campaign to the WS, or boycotting all OG orders for a day or a week such as MD week.

I believe that there are things we can do. We haven't ever tried any of the above so why are we just saying it can not be done.
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Because (most) people are hypocritical and only chase self-interests, even though many of them say otherwise. Appeal to the common good has never succeeded in the entire history of human race, if it requires even a teeeeny bit of self-sacrifice.

If you want anti-OG campaign/petition to succeed, you've got to convince people that they will personally benefit from such campaign. Alternatively, try to shame those who don't participate. If you can do that, people will join, simply because the plus would outweigh the minus.
 
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