WS Member Numbers
- Thread starter BOSS
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PhillyPhlorist
Pro Member
- Feb 7, 2004
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- Pennsylvania
Yea... LOL...
Back in the day... Bad Bobby's day that is, it was his plan to operate with about 7900 members if I remember the number right. He said that 7900 could cover 90% of the zips...
But thats ass-u-ming they would all be willing to receive
I remember during an Advantage Downers Grove meeting, Bob saying about 7,000. He wanted the shops to be "elite" and be exclusive to the "FTD Brand" - man was he big on "the Brand." But the flaw in his theory was that those "elite" shops didn't want FTD telling them who to do biz with... He then modified his plan over time...came near to happening too.
- H.
Rhonda
Well-Known Member
I remember the buzz on those numbers too. And wondered how they were going to serve every rural town in the country (including mine). Now I know, they have to use a corporate credit card (at 100%).......urpletea NOT
urpletea NOT
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
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- Ontario
Yea... LOL...
Back in the day... Bad Bobby's day that is, it was his plan to operate with about 7900 members if I remember the number right. He said that 7900 could cover 90% of the zips...
But thats ass-u-ming they would all be willing to receive
First off...the total FTD shops that BB was targeting was 12,600...of that number, 8,700 were "creating" the greatest wealth for FTD in Bad Bob years, and the balance were always going to be "rotating" shops, those that felt "comfortable" jumping in and out of wire service "affiliation".
Second....BN identified the strongest markets for the FTD "brand", and number crunching told him, that even WITHOUT the remainder of the shops' full participating, FTDI would be wildly succesful in launching and growing it's non B&M florist programs...it's all the necessary capital that was required.
Thirdly, Bad Bob, was BANG ON, in "estimating" his lifespan in the biz, and as a primary "shareholder", confided in the Green Group, what HIS expected projections were, and when to sell (of course, to Bob's benefit).
Fourthly, at least Bob had a "plan"...good, bad, or somewhere in between, at least MOST of us, that attended seminars, and conventions, where he was in attendance, had a "target" to either shoot for, or shoot at!!
Fifth, Bob was a "maverick"...still is, he's made money along his whole path, and those of us that knew him fairly well, were NOT afraid of his candid answers, again, some you liked, and some you despised.
Sixth, FTD is lacking "leaderships"...something that many of us ol' timers looked for, and to, when WE were much younger in this biz, and many of us wanting to become "leaders" in our OWN right, by helping OTHER budding florist entrepreneurs, by passing on what WE knew (or think we knew) onto those that "wanted" to know.
Seventh, FTD has reached "critical mass" and is, and has "nurtured" a distrustful relationship with it's "loyal" FTD money pit members, by "enabling" those OG's & dOG's, that allow them the least path of "resistance" to the greedy wealth that FTD's current "regime" or "posse" of stableholders "thinks" it has, yet, most of us know differently.
Eighth....."lie to the masses, confide in few" is the new "catch phrase" of the millennium, and FTD is in NO WAY, responsible for what has happened to the "economics" of our industry.....no more than it IS, or WAS responsible for the lack of trust between FTDI and FTDA, during those gruesome times.....BOTH PARTIES were EQUALLY responsible for the "breakup" of ONE of the greatest florist "alliances" we will EVER know, and member florists THEMSELVES, voted in FAVOUR of selling to the Green Group in 1992, and "dissolving" the company as we knew it!
Ninth, florists ALWAYS "flee" when there is a battle to be fought...we are NOT fighters, we are "lovers" of the most widely recognized symbol of emotions, and those of us left, WILLING to fight, have rarely EVER had the majority back us up...lottsa talk.....always lottsa talk!
Tenth, ALL the wire services are in "demise mode", as the younger generation, is tech saavy, has NO NEED for a "middleman", and WILL SIDE, and BUY at the location, that gives THEM the greatest comfort zone..they are LAZY, they have MONEY, and they DON'T CARE who goes under, and IF the "local" florists, gives THEM the least "hassles" THAT florist WILL SURVIVE, and ARE WILLING to pay a "service charge" to ANYONE that expedites a fast, and resourceful transaction, and if FTD does it better, we have NO ONE TO BLAME, but ourselves.
Many shops are leaving the wire services, few are joining back in, because B&M shops really DON'T need a wire service, if ALL their efforts were directed at the local marketplace...FORGET about making profitable money on filling/sending wire orders...it's almost over, thankfully.
What would we EVER do without TOTO (thanks Preacher John):thumbsup..it's NOT what you say, as much as what YOU believe in, unendingly!
Can never understand
First sure Bob made money. The money he was making was your money. He was busy taking the dues, fees and any other money you paid and put a good part of it in his pocket, instead of putting it to a use that would return benefits to those paying those monies.
Second, the reason he could be so blunt with candid answers is that he understood that the vast majority didn't understand what he was doing. For those that did understand, he could be harsh because he needed those people silenced until he could accomplish his goal of weaking the florists role in FTD.
Third, as far as liking the man, he was an ass. At no other corporation other than FTD could he have acted the way he did. How could you like a man that took your money, weakened your business and threatened your livelyhood? This man was at the pinnacle of arrogance and represented everything that is wrong with corporate America.
If you need something to think about, just look at the value FTD represented to the florists when he came to power and the lack of value to the florists when he left.
This one statement is the one thing I can never understand.
First sure Bob made money. The money he was making was your money. He was busy taking the dues, fees and any other money you paid and put a good part of it in his pocket, instead of putting it to a use that would return benefits to those paying those monies.
Second, the reason he could be so blunt with candid answers is that he understood that the vast majority didn't understand what he was doing. For those that did understand, he could be harsh because he needed those people silenced until he could accomplish his goal of weaking the florists role in FTD.
Third, as far as liking the man, he was an ass. At no other corporation other than FTD could he have acted the way he did. How could you like a man that took your money, weakened your business and threatened your livelyhood? This man was at the pinnacle of arrogance and represented everything that is wrong with corporate America.
If you need something to think about, just look at the value FTD represented to the florists when he came to power and the lack of value to the florists when he left.
BOSS's Second Quote of the day!!
Yep...and when I told him that one time, he even agreed!
steve
Well-Known Member
First, many of the past strings of posts about FTD alluded to the fact that FTD made money from it's florist side of the business?
If that is true, why would you allow that side of the business to erode?
Wouldn't you want to maintain high membership numbers?
My guess is that the bottom third of the florist they had were poor payers and behind in their bills. What good is it to have them as memebers and be billing them if they are deliquent in payments?
If that is true, why would you allow that side of the business to erode?
Wouldn't you want to maintain high membership numbers?
My guess is that the bottom third of the florist they had were poor payers and behind in their bills. What good is it to have them as memebers and be billing them if they are deliquent in payments?
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 72
- State / Prov
- Ontario
To Mark Anderson - Thanks for your reply over there. Your clear, insightful, articulate posts (here and elsewhere) are a pleasure to read.
Your clear, insightful, articulate posts (here and elsewhere) are a pleasure to read. 
Mark Anderson
Well-Known Member
Thanks very much Cathy! You just made my day.
Please know that I always seek out your posts and enjoy them very much.
Please know that I always seek out your posts and enjoy them very much.
TOTO
New Member
Actually, Bi Polar would be a better diagnosis!
WOW, just too much to digest over what FTDI really wanted to be when they grew up.
As to SMALL bob, Bi-Polar would be the best diagnosis given to his long list of problomatic contradictions of saying one thing and then, turning around to DOO ANOTHER!
How can anyone justify FIRING AN FSR after he said to bob: Be right with you as soon as I put my pants on. SMALL bob walked into this poor buy's hotel room as the FSR was almost finished ironing his dress pants, told him let's go, and then, LET HIM GO! HEARTLESS, RUTHLESS, and DANGEROUS in my own umble opinion.
Same went for Tamara Zygmund after he told her to go out and create a line of junk to appease wee florists who were demanding a piece of the ALTERNATIVE GIFT BUSINESS which DOT.CON was relishing in with their usual double digit quarterly growth in sales.
Of course, and when that NO BRAND, NO NAME, NO VALUE line of garbage DIED, he turned around and blamed it on EVERYONE ELSE but her self.
Same thing happened to Tim R as SMALL bob would tell him to do one thing on a Monday, and then, turn around and ask him on Tuesday, Why are you working on that? When Tim told him, because you told me to work on that, SMALL bob denied it by stating to Tim that, he never told him that.
So many more stories but so little time today!
More to come!
WOW, just too much to digest over what FTDI really wanted to be when they grew up.
As to SMALL bob, Bi-Polar would be the best diagnosis given to his long list of problomatic contradictions of saying one thing and then, turning around to DOO ANOTHER!
How can anyone justify FIRING AN FSR after he said to bob: Be right with you as soon as I put my pants on. SMALL bob walked into this poor buy's hotel room as the FSR was almost finished ironing his dress pants, told him let's go, and then, LET HIM GO! HEARTLESS, RUTHLESS, and DANGEROUS in my own umble opinion.
Same went for Tamara Zygmund after he told her to go out and create a line of junk to appease wee florists who were demanding a piece of the ALTERNATIVE GIFT BUSINESS which DOT.CON was relishing in with their usual double digit quarterly growth in sales.
Of course, and when that NO BRAND, NO NAME, NO VALUE line of garbage DIED, he turned around and blamed it on EVERYONE ELSE but her self.
Same thing happened to Tim R as SMALL bob would tell him to do one thing on a Monday, and then, turn around and ask him on Tuesday, Why are you working on that? When Tim told him, because you told me to work on that, SMALL bob denied it by stating to Tim that, he never told him that.
So many more stories but so little time today!
More to come!
As stated above, us "old timers" have no one to blame but ourselves. Despite the "rebate" pressures from AFS & Teleflora back in 1992, FTD was still the "Cadillac" of wire services because it was owned by US. There were many, many members that shunned the rebates and sent FTD because it was OURS. Of course, the florists that went after the rebates were the same ones that voted for the sale. 1800 was still in its infancy and in hindsight if FTD had promoted its 1800SENDFTD business better (or had bought up 1800 outright)...well who knows. One correction...the Perry Group bought FTD in 1992 not the Green Group.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 72
- State / Prov
- Ontario
what a huge oops.......what in the world was I thinking with??:hammer:
Thank you very much for that correction.....
CHERYL BAKIN
New Member
Those of us who come from other businesses (other than the flower business) are very much aware that when "big money" enters the game, the game changes. (Just ask anyone who has worked for a company that was a take-over target).
FTD WAS a very unique organization, when it was member owned and operated. It was, many times, very cumbersome in its operational strategy, but it worked for many years because it was the BEST AND THE BIGGEST in the world, and it was a VERY WIDELY ACCEPTED BRAND.
In graduate business school classes, FTD was always rated as one of the most widely known trademarks in the world -- up there with Kleenex, Coke, etc.
................and we (that's a collective WE) let it all get away.............
There was not a snowball's chance that FTDA and FTDI were ever going to co-exist and co-operate, or operate in the best interest of the florist community as FTD had before the split. The Goals of the 2 organizations were too different.
FTDI was & is all about making a profit, and maximizing shareholder returns.
FTDA was all about ????? It was never really clear.
What was clear was that Bob Norton resented very much the money each month that FTDI had to pay FTDA, and he was bound & determined to eliminate that cash outflow....some how, some way. He did this by raising fees and dues, and driving DOWN the membership base, until the FTDA group hollered "uncle" and took what they could get.
When he was done, the greatest member owned association to ever be was done and was dead.
It will never come back folks. May it rest in peace.....
It was and is ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY......FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL AND YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWERS. When FTD raised fees & dues, so did TF and everyone else. When someone offered rebates, the others followed. When someone allowed OGs into the system, they all did. Why? Because of the money to be made.
Now, OUR JOB, SHOULD WE DECIDE TO ACCEPT THIS MISSION, IS:
TRANSFORM THE FLORAL BUSINESS WORLD BACK INTO THE HONORABLE BUSINESS THAT IT ONCE WAS, AND STILL CAN BE TODAY ....ONE CUSTOMER AND ONE MARKET AT A TIME. The "model" has changed some....thanks to the internet.....but WE are still the same people that we always were. We just need to open our eyes, work together, and make some serious stuff happen!!
For instance:
1. Can we, in a number of major markets, do the same type of holiday advertising.....(brochures/postcards/ etc).
2. Can we agree to set a standard charge to the customer for relaying the order to another city? ($5 or $6. seems reasonable)
3. Can we agree to send flowers to another florist at 100%, and take our sending fee as the amount we are entitled to collect for handling such a transaction? Let's get the LOCAL consumer into our shops, handle those transactions for them, and Keep them as local and out of town customers!!
4. Can we create a directory (maybe thru FC) that all members, with minimum pricing, etc are listed? We shouldn't have to subscribe to different tools to be part of things.
What say you?????
Maybe this is all too much to hope for.....I'll quit now and go back to work on wedding flowers.....( sorry for the long post......)
Regards,
Cheryl
FTD WAS a very unique organization, when it was member owned and operated. It was, many times, very cumbersome in its operational strategy, but it worked for many years because it was the BEST AND THE BIGGEST in the world, and it was a VERY WIDELY ACCEPTED BRAND.
In graduate business school classes, FTD was always rated as one of the most widely known trademarks in the world -- up there with Kleenex, Coke, etc.
................and we (that's a collective WE) let it all get away.............
There was not a snowball's chance that FTDA and FTDI were ever going to co-exist and co-operate, or operate in the best interest of the florist community as FTD had before the split. The Goals of the 2 organizations were too different.
FTDI was & is all about making a profit, and maximizing shareholder returns.
FTDA was all about ????? It was never really clear.
What was clear was that Bob Norton resented very much the money each month that FTDI had to pay FTDA, and he was bound & determined to eliminate that cash outflow....some how, some way. He did this by raising fees and dues, and driving DOWN the membership base, until the FTDA group hollered "uncle" and took what they could get.
When he was done, the greatest member owned association to ever be was done and was dead.
It will never come back folks. May it rest in peace.....
It was and is ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY......FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL AND YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWERS. When FTD raised fees & dues, so did TF and everyone else. When someone offered rebates, the others followed. When someone allowed OGs into the system, they all did. Why? Because of the money to be made.
Now, OUR JOB, SHOULD WE DECIDE TO ACCEPT THIS MISSION, IS:
TRANSFORM THE FLORAL BUSINESS WORLD BACK INTO THE HONORABLE BUSINESS THAT IT ONCE WAS, AND STILL CAN BE TODAY ....ONE CUSTOMER AND ONE MARKET AT A TIME. The "model" has changed some....thanks to the internet.....but WE are still the same people that we always were. We just need to open our eyes, work together, and make some serious stuff happen!!
For instance:
1. Can we, in a number of major markets, do the same type of holiday advertising.....(brochures/postcards/ etc).
2. Can we agree to set a standard charge to the customer for relaying the order to another city? ($5 or $6. seems reasonable)
3. Can we agree to send flowers to another florist at 100%, and take our sending fee as the amount we are entitled to collect for handling such a transaction? Let's get the LOCAL consumer into our shops, handle those transactions for them, and Keep them as local and out of town customers!!
4. Can we create a directory (maybe thru FC) that all members, with minimum pricing, etc are listed? We shouldn't have to subscribe to different tools to be part of things.
What say you?????
Maybe this is all too much to hope for.....I'll quit now and go back to work on wedding flowers.....( sorry for the long post......)
Regards,
Cheryl
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 72
- State / Prov
- Ontario
Thanks Cheryl, I could not have said it better.
It is my dream to accomplish what you suggest, especially the 100% sending. Like I said it is a dream...sadly I do not think it will ever happen.
Len
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