WS website images & "photoshop"
- Thread starter Simon Says
- Start date
Rhonda
Well-Known Member
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Again, as an industry we can make all the excuses we want about why things must be, rationalize to each other how we can't change, or simply blame the other guy (WS's, OG's). However at the end of the day the real truth does not change, the consumer is not receiving what they want and is drifting off.
As for ranching the public, good luck with that one. First off, as a consumer how would you accept Costco educating you as to why you need to learn to accept and appreciate their poor (generally non-existent) customer service, or say back in the 80's Ford educating you as to why their vehicles rusted out.. Secondly as an industry we have no marketing arm, hell we can't even agree on the value of product.
I love the way the stems look in that vase! Ya, right! What a joke. Why they would want to make them look so "unatural" is beyond me....I don't even think it looks good...kind of off balance. Whateva....
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug. DOUG!
The consumer simply wants what they are shown they are buying. Unfortunately, the wire services are selling them a bunch of malarky that never existed and never will.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Linda, LINDA!
Thank you for making my point. You are correct, the consumer wants what they are shown and as an industry we can not deliver it.
In my opinion (humble as it may be) the mistake the wire services have made is setting the bar too high for our industry in its present state. Make no mistake that the consumer likes what they see, they are buying it in droves. Unfortunately we are failing to deliver and they are going to other gifting options.
I believe that as an industry we all need to move to the "highest" common denominator and provide the finest best looking product the consumer can imagine, rather than make excuses as to why we can't reach that point. If all we featured on websites was product that "any" florist could fill we would be back to selling nothing but "fill to value" price points containing roses, carns, and maybe the occasional mum. Even then there would be no consistency, no standard for value or quality.
The industries "sales arm" (ws's, og's etc.) is telling us what the consumer wants, unfortunately our manufacturing arm refuses to listen and continuously points to the fact that the sales team has unrealistic expectations and that manufacturing has been done this way for the last 100 years so there is no need to upgrade. Thank God we don't manufacture automobiles or cell phones, we would be trying to shove Model T's and Motorola "bricks" at the consumer.
No one will ever convince me that we need to develop a system to ensure that a florist doing $100 K annually has the product selection to fill every order. Tell me where do you buy your produce, from the vendor who stocks potatoes and carrots only, or the one with a complete produce section.
Our industries problems meeting the consumers expectations need to be resolved, the consumer is not the problem here. On a last note, trust me I am in no way suggesting that the WS's are completely right in the way they do things, this issue is an industry one and to solve it all levels need to change and adjust to the realities of today's world. The time for each sector to continuously blame the other one has to end.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Linda, Not side stepping at all. The reality is your analogy is flawed, you speak of a jet car, a technology that does not exist. I refer to changing the way an industry operates to bring it in line with the consumer wants and needs. We could go on for days about other industries that have had to totally change the way they do things in the last decade or two, however I suspect that for every example someone would find what they considered a valid excuse as to why our industry can not adjust.
People can discuss educating consumers, doing a better job of "ranching" customers, finding ways to cripple the OG's, or all the problems that the WS's are causing, all while the "head count" of the "mom & pop" florist continues to shrink. Ten years from now the florists still left standing will be the ones embraced the changes that empowering the consumer has brought, those that refused to will be history.
Again, the consumer has spoken, what they want is what the online marketers are showing them. If this industry is to survive and prosper we need to find a way to deliver it in a realistic way that allows all parties at all levels to prosper. Remember a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
Doug,
In many ways, I think several of us agree with you insomuch as the florist has a chunk of the responsibility in addressing how the floral distribution chain moves forward.
What I see many of the comments in this thread and other ones saying is that the WS imagery, requirements and pricing no longer generally function to the benefit of the consumer and, also, to the florist. Therefore, some - such as a seemingly noticeable portion of Flowerchat members - are creating their own imagery and walking away from WS so that they do not have the substitution issue (or at least nearly eliminate it). These florists are breaking the shackles of the WS chains that bind and building new bonds with the product they feel best suited to the consumer they are targetting.
In this matter, surely, we do agree with you. Where we disagree is feeling that by continuing to serve another party, the WS, as well as the consumer, we can do what the consumer expects and, for that reason, several florists have chosen to break our link in our chain to the WS.
In many ways, I think several of us agree with you insomuch as the florist has a chunk of the responsibility in addressing how the floral distribution chain moves forward.
What I see many of the comments in this thread and other ones saying is that the WS imagery, requirements and pricing no longer generally function to the benefit of the consumer and, also, to the florist. Therefore, some - such as a seemingly noticeable portion of Flowerchat members - are creating their own imagery and walking away from WS so that they do not have the substitution issue (or at least nearly eliminate it). These florists are breaking the shackles of the WS chains that bind and building new bonds with the product they feel best suited to the consumer they are targetting.
In this matter, surely, we do agree with you. Where we disagree is feeling that by continuing to serve another party, the WS, as well as the consumer, we can do what the consumer expects and, for that reason, several florists have chosen to break our link in our chain to the WS.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Maybe I am not being clear.
The image that CHR posted never existed in real life, and never can. It's malarky. That's my issue. That's what I'm talking about in reference to the jet car. So my analogy is dead-on. It never existed. Its a picture made up of pixels, they probably glue flowers in, or cloned them in, to make that full design, it's impossible to replicate in real life.
The image that CHR posted never existed in real life, and never can. It's malarky. That's my issue. That's what I'm talking about in reference to the jet car. So my analogy is dead-on. It never existed. Its a picture made up of pixels, they probably glue flowers in, or cloned them in, to make that full design, it's impossible to replicate in real life.
secretgarden
Well-Known Member
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Linda,
I went back thru this post to see the pictures you referred to that CHR posted and I can only find is THIS ONE
Now if these are the correct photo's you refer I won't debate whether or not the FTD image can be produced in real life, my design skills stop at wrapping a dozen roses ( at times I find that a challenge). I will leave that debate to others on this board who are qualified floral designers.
What I i point out is that I checked the "New Dream Bouquet" on the FTD website and I note it is "Same Day Florist Delivered" so that would indicate a flower shop filled the order in question. My question is simple
On what planet would any self respecting "qualified" florist send out flowers that looked like that?
Never mind the fact that the delivered product bears virtually no resemblance to what was ordered ( that would take us back to the whether or not it can actually be produced question), the fact still remains that what was delivered speaks very poorly of our industry. In fact I feel qualified to judge this piece both from the viewpoint of a consumer and in this case as a floral designer as even I could throw together what was actually delivered ( now that is really a sad statement). Does the shop in question take any pride in the work they produce?
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug,
Plain old photography shows a design that is average for form, color, and texture. If I look at them together, I have the same reaction you do. If I look at just the one actually sent, the only real problem is the glaring lack of yellow sweets and the addition of leather leaf. That's because we are comparing real life to fantasy.
I dare you to make a design, any design, in a bowl and keep the bottoms of the stems firmly planted in the water. Better yet, get those flowers in and have your top designer make that to look exactly like the picture. Don't forget to time the designer, time is money ya know!
Then, to really make it right, snap a picture of it with your phone, sitting in a home setting.
What I am saying is if the wire services would quit playing such games with the images, most of these complaints simply would not happen.
Plain old photography shows a design that is average for form, color, and texture. If I look at them together, I have the same reaction you do. If I look at just the one actually sent, the only real problem is the glaring lack of yellow sweets and the addition of leather leaf. That's because we are comparing real life to fantasy.
I dare you to make a design, any design, in a bowl and keep the bottoms of the stems firmly planted in the water. Better yet, get those flowers in and have your top designer make that to look exactly like the picture. Don't forget to time the designer, time is money ya know!
Then, to really make it right, snap a picture of it with your phone, sitting in a home setting.
What I am saying is if the wire services would quit playing such games with the images, most of these complaints simply would not happen.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but you don't want to forget that the image may have been sold as an all around design but pictured as one sided and the designer made it as an all around making it look skimpier, and if they made it to value, there's another issue.
I have to agree with the cell phone photography, we've had that issue before too, customer just did not seem to get it that the first photo was a good camera, good lighting, second was a cell in poor lighting, same arrangement, same location.
Added:
Since the drop ship flowers was brought up earlier and how the customer supposedly gets what they order, I found an article, same website, of a Proflowers order.
http://consumerist.com/2011/05/mothers-day-flowers-vs-reality.html
I have to agree with the cell phone photography, we've had that issue before too, customer just did not seem to get it that the first photo was a good camera, good lighting, second was a cell in poor lighting, same arrangement, same location.
Added:
Since the drop ship flowers was brought up earlier and how the customer supposedly gets what they order, I found an article, same website, of a Proflowers order.
http://consumerist.com/2011/05/mothers-day-flowers-vs-reality.html
Tuberose,
Excellent point re Proflowers. Customer does appear to get what they ordered vis-a-vis type and stem count -which is oh so important to some - but this does, clearly, seem to be an instance of, if not photographic enhancement on the part of Proflowers, the use of the chosen flora at their ultimate bloom and which, give it another 24 hrs, look as if it is "tired".
Excellent point re Proflowers. Customer does appear to get what they ordered vis-a-vis type and stem count -which is oh so important to some - but this does, clearly, seem to be an instance of, if not photographic enhancement on the part of Proflowers, the use of the chosen flora at their ultimate bloom and which, give it another 24 hrs, look as if it is "tired".
Bingo!I have begun to think they use foam and then photoshop a clear vase in
If you look at the 3 sizes of the 'FTD Dream Bouquet', you'll see the stems in the 'regular' and 'Better' versions are exactly the same. The flowers were Photoshopped onto the containers.
To Doug: I appreciate that you are a non-designer, but your designers are being asked to re-create the impossible with these images based on the recipes provided by FTD. Three's no foliage grid to hold the flowers in place and the laterals (side shoots) on spray-like flowers like hypericum, asters and spray roses are rarely long enough to insert each florette separately into a bubble bowl. A designer could easily do this in foam, since the foam is above the lip of the container, but with clear glass vases, the stems are not long enough to reach the water and provide the fullness shown in the images.
Additionally, all the flowers are oriented to the camera in these shots, but there would be no support for the stems with the backs of the design void of flowers. They designs would fall apart during delivery.
So the designers have 3 choices: add in greens to stabilize the stems for delivery (which changes the looks of the designs), over-stuff with about 30%-50% more flowers to acheive the look, or stick to the exact stem count and risk complaints about the arrangements not resembling the photos. None of these choices should ever have to be made.
These photos are deceptive to the extreme. Designers know it. FTD knows it. It's just the flower buying public who doesn't.
Let us say that the customer is not satisfied with the WS order they placed from a WS florist arranged and delivered and not a drop ship. The question is, what happens next? What is the WS guarantee?
TF: A quick look at their website and a site search for "Guarantee" throws up nothing. Call TF customer service - Renee - who advised that " We don't really have a policy" "We guarantee that it is fresh". Words along the lines of it does not look like the picture, we'll work with you to satisfy you. If you allow us to substitute, that can help. Was reluctant to give info because, clearly there is a lack of a clear, understood, policy within their current (21st May) crop of customer specialists. However, when I mentioned I was checking TF, FTD & 1-800 for their floral guarantee policy, the lady came up with the "we work with you if there are issues" matter.
FTD: A quick search on their website quickly reveals a guarantee policy of "...fresh, beautiful floral arrangements and plants that will last at least seven days." Speaking to FTD, a rep. referenced the policy and that if not satisifed, we'll work with you (again). Deliveries of arrangements should look like the images on the website. If you allow substitutes, we will, if necessary but still very similar to the picture.
1-800: A quick search on their website reveals no policy. I 'phoned. They guarantee delivery date - but not time - and that the flowers would be fresh, not broken nor wilted and would last 7 days. I asked if the wilted part applied at the start ofthe 7 days or at the end of the 7 days. "Oh, are flowers are always fresh." Code for, as I understand " Hmmm, I don't know".
(All 3 checks carried out 21st May and I revealed I was checking the respective companys' guarantee policy. I did not say I was a florist. All 3 had caller ID).
On the policy matter, TF haven't really got one and TF and FTD indicate, verbally, that the arrangement will look like the picture.
Do you feel as if some-one is being cheated? The consumer is being deceived....it looks like the picture but the florist is told it is an all-around design is deception and suggests you are getting more than the picture shows - ie: the consumer can easily think it is the same around the back. This is not per the glamor shots of the Cheeseburgers and fries from the national chains. The florist is being asked to produce an arrangement for a given price with specific contents - some of which are revealed to the consumer on-line placing the order - and an approx dimension. And then deal the possibility of making happy a consumer, at your cost and probably not the WS's, who feels, especially with FTD, that their tulips, for example, did not last at least 7 days.
TF: A quick look at their website and a site search for "Guarantee" throws up nothing. Call TF customer service - Renee - who advised that " We don't really have a policy" "We guarantee that it is fresh". Words along the lines of it does not look like the picture, we'll work with you to satisfy you. If you allow us to substitute, that can help. Was reluctant to give info because, clearly there is a lack of a clear, understood, policy within their current (21st May) crop of customer specialists. However, when I mentioned I was checking TF, FTD & 1-800 for their floral guarantee policy, the lady came up with the "we work with you if there are issues" matter.
FTD: A quick search on their website quickly reveals a guarantee policy of "...fresh, beautiful floral arrangements and plants that will last at least seven days." Speaking to FTD, a rep. referenced the policy and that if not satisifed, we'll work with you (again). Deliveries of arrangements should look like the images on the website. If you allow substitutes, we will, if necessary but still very similar to the picture.
1-800: A quick search on their website reveals no policy. I 'phoned. They guarantee delivery date - but not time - and that the flowers would be fresh, not broken nor wilted and would last 7 days. I asked if the wilted part applied at the start ofthe 7 days or at the end of the 7 days. "Oh, are flowers are always fresh." Code for, as I understand " Hmmm, I don't know".
(All 3 checks carried out 21st May and I revealed I was checking the respective companys' guarantee policy. I did not say I was a florist. All 3 had caller ID).
On the policy matter, TF haven't really got one and TF and FTD indicate, verbally, that the arrangement will look like the picture.
Do you feel as if some-one is being cheated? The consumer is being deceived....it looks like the picture but the florist is told it is an all-around design is deception and suggests you are getting more than the picture shows - ie: the consumer can easily think it is the same around the back. This is not per the glamor shots of the Cheeseburgers and fries from the national chains. The florist is being asked to produce an arrangement for a given price with specific contents - some of which are revealed to the consumer on-line placing the order - and an approx dimension. And then deal the possibility of making happy a consumer, at your cost and probably not the WS's, who feels, especially with FTD, that their tulips, for example, did not last at least 7 days.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Linda,
My point in this discussion was and still is that ultimately the customer did not get what they believed they ordered and was ultimately not satisfied. While I fully understand the message you are attempting to convey I will point out that in explaining the situation you work hard to remove as much responsibility for it from the fulfiller as possible (the delivered arrangement is reality?, stop playing games with images and most complaints would not happen?). Come on, bad work is simply bad work! When I stated that I was not a designer I failed to say that I have been in this industry for over 30 years and during that time I have seen some of the finest work and some of the worst, both ends of the spectrum.
Rather than make excuses for what was sent lets just admit it was bad. On the issue of the cell phone, come on...... now we are back to educating the consumer only this time on the fine points of photography. Would anyone on this board who experienced a problem with a product or service and took a picture of it accept the excuse from the vendor that part of the problem was simply the quality of the photography? Or that your expectations were simply too high!
Our industry has a lot of problems at all levels (including both WS's and retail florists) and all of which need to be addressed. How can any one assume a "we're right, they are wrong" attitude about the retail florist when we are speaking of a group of people who for the most part have had no formal training. As a former wholesaler I could tell you horror stories about individuals running flower shops that had virtually NO knowledge about the industry they were in and got into it because "flowers were so nice".
If there is a role I would personally like to see the wire services take it is in educating and qualifying florists, something they did a lot more of years ago. Unfortunately wire services are like the Better Business Bureau in the sense that the individuals they need to police are the very ones they rely on for revenue, so penalizing a member or kicking them our is not in their best interest. In today's world if the WS's took a tough stand on the quality of work leaving shops I suspect they would have too few members left to survive.
anytimeflowers
Linda
You know what? Now that I look at that image some more, I can clearly see a YELLOW ROSE just barely peeping out at the other side of that arrangement. Funny little photography tricks from the consumer as well, eh?