Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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Announcement Change Is Here!
- Thread starter theRKF
- Start date
roysecityfloristand gifts
Well-Known Member
Ok here goes, I'm guessing some will consider this directed at them and get pissed off...but it is not directed at any one person.
I've been on this thread from the beginning, and I've noticed that it seems the folks who are home/studio/website based are the ones leaving for the most part.
These also for the most part are folks who do NOT have a vested interest in doing real battle with the WS's that have taken over our industry. Real battle is what it will take for all of us to still be around 5 years from now. This is not WS bashing, just fact, that we need an alternative run by florist, and it can be done.
If FC was just a social thing for you, then bye bye. If your a real B&M florist interested in saving your business then why not stay for a year and let's see what we as a group can accomplish.
Frankly, I'll be happy to get down to business, volunteer my time and knowledge to help all B&M shops survive and prosper.
I've been on this thread from the beginning, and I've noticed that it seems the folks who are home/studio/website based are the ones leaving for the most part.
These also for the most part are folks who do NOT have a vested interest in doing real battle with the WS's that have taken over our industry. Real battle is what it will take for all of us to still be around 5 years from now. This is not WS bashing, just fact, that we need an alternative run by florist, and it can be done.
If FC was just a social thing for you, then bye bye. If your a real B&M florist interested in saving your business then why not stay for a year and let's see what we as a group can accomplish.
Frankly, I'll be happy to get down to business, volunteer my time and knowledge to help all B&M shops survive and prosper.
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
This is a great place and would not think once about abandoning it.
For the members to claim that their post should not be allowed to make money for Ryan or Strider or anyone else.
Guess what I have already made money on your post. Does that mean I just stole from you?
Come on this is just crazy guys. Put your money up and lets see what we can all do to make this place even better.
Ryan has one year to see what he can do with my 100.00. To me his work just got alot harder. And yes your crazy dude. But I'm here and ready to see what you can do for this place.
Thanks again for everything .
For the members to claim that their post should not be allowed to make money for Ryan or Strider or anyone else.
Guess what I have already made money on your post. Does that mean I just stole from you?
Come on this is just crazy guys. Put your money up and lets see what we can all do to make this place even better.
Ryan has one year to see what he can do with my 100.00. To me his work just got alot harder. And yes your crazy dude. But I'm here and ready to see what you can do for this place.
Thanks again for everything .
In my case you are very wrong in this statement.... I'm not pissed either, I think there are better ways to make this both profitable for Ryan/Strider, and free for those of us who need it.
I have gleaned information from many who have said goodbye, and have learned things from those who have paid their toll, but I fear we will lose those with years of experience who are no longer " actively involved" as has been mentioned.
I am a Bricks and Mortar Florist, Storefront and all the expenses that go with it. I am WS free, and trying to "Save the Industry", and Used FC as a source for information to help me do so. I engaged myself to Strider with a website not quite a year ago, and have been trying to muddle through the set up process--This whole computer world is a little to time consuming sometimes for my world--Jim has been helpful there.
I understand Ryans need to profit or at least cover his cost, and that is truly his business, I don't understand the "sign up or we'll miss you" attitude adopted by some here. I guess I still hope for world peace, so I always look for positive proactive ways to solve a problem. I think (where I in Ryans Shoes) I would have opted for more ads or some other way to build revenue, with what has been built under his watchful eye, but again it is his choice.
I have cut so many corners and so much fluff in the last year, to try and keep my doors open, that as was mentioned earlier by others, the soles of my shoes are wearing pretty thin. I have a Son who will graduate from High school this year and Just turned 18 this week, and alas, I couldn't muster $100 for his birthday gift. So know that as I say farewell, it is not by preconceived choice, nor from My personal stinginess, but from, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I should be working on my own website, or cold-calling offices in my market area, or loving on my wife and kids rather than "chatting" here.
As I said the financial obligation has forced my hand. I guess I could mentally Justify $10 a month--which would be a 20% increase for the monthly option, but to justify $360 a year for what I could have for $100 where I of that socioeconomic stature that we all aspire to. So know that you are weeding out more than Basement Betty's and Website/Studio loners, You have successfully as they say separated the Chaff from the Wheat, and can build an industry devoid of those who are struggling to ride out the storm.
I am sure I will survive a life devoid of FC, and I surely thank those who have been so giving of their time in the past. I have surely enjoyed the ride, But this is my bus stop, and I must get off here. Perhaps the economy will take a turn for the better, and I will again be able to afford passage on this vessel. But for now I'll be waiting in the cheap seats.
Best Wishes to all
mrflowermarket
Correct, so some people do regard this $100 as a fair price to pay for what they think they will get. Fine. Did I ever say they shouldn't? I have no problem with what others think.
What I was trying to convey (and a few other prolific posters) is that, for *us*, I repeat, for US, it's not a simple "purchase" of FC services. A different thinking goes into our decision as to whether we should pay $100. The thinking all boils down to who owns the content and goodwill that Strider is now trying to sell. I said this many times already, but I again repeat here:
Those of us prolific posters donated the ideas, opinions, tips, informations, and so on, under the presumption that no one will be making bucks on them. That's where the trouble comes, and that's why some people want their posts completely erased.
personally, I don't care what they do with my posts. They had no value with me. But it troubles me that Strider is now selling the Flower Chat brand which has been based on the knowledge and expertise that volunteers have donated.
I have been trying to point this out, not as an advice to other people, but as my effort to help Ryan and Admins to understand where we are coming from. The don't need to agree. All I hope is that they see where we are coming from. If they understand it, or at least are willing to understand it, then next time, they might be able to do a better job "selling" this sort of idea, that's all.
As to the actual cost of web hosting, what's your estimate then?
I belong to a board that is REALLY huge like maybe 5 times the size of FC? Ok I have a suggestion: On that board there are levels of membership. With the paid membership, you get access to ALOT more of the board than with an unpaid membership. With the unpaid mambership you still are part of the board, don't lose touch with those you have come to know and still participate on a level that isn't either/or. So no one is left to feel like they are being booted out in the cold.
Ryan I'd be happy to put you in touch with the admin there so you could get a feel for their system. I think it is a very good compromise to consider maybe levels for FC. Just let me know.
Ryan I'd be happy to put you in touch with the admin there so you could get a feel for their system. I think it is a very good compromise to consider maybe levels for FC. Just let me know.
I know. I said it in my post 20 pages earlier.
Question is: can the forum owner sell them for profit. No ones knows for sure, nor do you.However, legality is only part f the issue here (or no one should be complaining about deceptive OG practices without any explicit laws prohibiting their practice). It is against.... um... the SPIRIT of a free forum to sell the content that has been donated by volunteers, who are now asked to pay even to read their own posts.
Again, I'm just pointing out how some of us see this debacle, not as an attempt to dictatewhat you, Duane, should do. That's something you decide, and I've never ever said no one should pay $100.
Thanks, Aileen. I appreciate the thought & suggestion! That's something I've considered, but have opted not to implement at this time.
BINGO Mickey! But in the case of FlowerChat the orginal business platform was based on offering the product for free along with "donations". Changing that business platform is where the market research comes in.
roysecityfloristand gifts
Well-Known Member
Mr FlowerMarket,
I'm not sure why you chose to reference my post, as we are both WS free and looking for ways to help the industry.
I simply pointed out that it seemed the web based, home/studio folks were saying they would be going.
Yes I am staying, because I'm hoping that this is the beginning of something good. If it isn't I'll leave.
I'm not sure what your argument is.
This I do not see as a way of "separating the chaff from the wheat" (Your words). I don't think Ryan is trying to build a kingdom here.
As far as anything I have posted, my only concern is that it is not opened up to the general internet population, because I may have said things about customer base and personal business info, which doesn't belong out on the world wide web. For the life of me, I can't see how Ryan could earn money off of our post.
I'm not sure why you chose to reference my post, as we are both WS free and looking for ways to help the industry.
I simply pointed out that it seemed the web based, home/studio folks were saying they would be going.
Yes I am staying, because I'm hoping that this is the beginning of something good. If it isn't I'll leave.
I'm not sure what your argument is.
This I do not see as a way of "separating the chaff from the wheat" (Your words). I don't think Ryan is trying to build a kingdom here.
As far as anything I have posted, my only concern is that it is not opened up to the general internet population, because I may have said things about customer base and personal business info, which doesn't belong out on the world wide web. For the life of me, I can't see how Ryan could earn money off of our post.
Mark Anderson
Well-Known Member
Hey Goldfish,
Please know that I have an incredible amount of respect for you. Your opinions on certain topics (completely unrelated to this) are very different from my own and I have learned a lot (and changed my own thinking) based on your excellent posts.
As for the costs of running this forum? I would not even hazard a guess. All I know for certain is that they would far exceed the $285 up-front/$10 a month you suggested.
Even if I did know the exact number I would not post it here under any circumstances (even if it supported my position). To me it would be like walking into your store at Valentines and tacking up a sign that showed your cost per stem. I just do not feel it would be appropriate. I also believe it to be irrelevant.
What I do know is that the grass is always greener. Everyone I know who has ever worked in a flower shop has heard someone say:
"Oh, that must be so nice to be around flowers all day long!"
And rolled their eyes because they know that person has never looked at a mountain of product prior to Valentines and known they were going to spend the next twelve hours on their feet tearing their hands apart.
Every designer has heard someone say:
"That sounds like so much fun! I was thinking about taking a course and becoming a designer!"
And gotten annoyed that anyone could think it was that easy.
Every shop owner has heard someone say:
"I've thought about opening up a shop - it seems like such a fun way to make a living!"
And been frustrated than somebody could assume this is a simple business.
Every self-employed person has heard people say:
"It must be so great to be self-employed and be your own boss and take time off whenever you want!"
And seethed a little because we know we're lucky if we can figure out how to squeeze in the eighty hours of work each week.
Running a board like this is no different. Everything looks easy until you try it. If this kind of board was so cheap and easy to run there would be a lot more of them.
Thanks.
1) It's hardly a debacle: in 250 posts, with 66 authors, only 7 have said they are against the idea. 9 more said they would like to stay but don't have the money (I get that - still wearing my 6 yr old $20 sneakers). Two are retired so will not subscribe. Counter that with 39 people who have publicly declared their intention to subscribe. 7 people with loud voices do not a debacle make
2) We're not selling the posts. That would be akin to Twitter selling their data feed to Google & Bing (which they do). We're selling access to the service, to facilitate the communication.
Big thanks to the 39 people who have stated their support publicly! And thanks as well to those who have quietly gone about business and subscribed without fanfare.
To the 7 who have said "No thanks" there are no hard feelings - we said from Post #1 that we knew not everyone would be on board, and we're sorry to see you go. Please understand this isn't a "now or never" situation - you can sign up again at any time in the future. And thanks to those who have, FC will be here when you're ready.
To the 9 who stated financial concerns: Please don't feel judged, and please don't feel unwelcome. I sincerely hope your fortunes will change and you'll be back soon.
To those who are out of the business: I'm taking MVF's point under advisement. We may explore a mentor-type membership for retired florists who want to share their wisdom. First we need to get through the initial transition - but you are on my mind.
To those still on the fence: We're rooting for you
I was only referencing your statement that I quoted that B& M Florist are the ones staying and the web based home studio folks seemed to be the ones leaving. So I was Just clarifying that . As Far as an argument, I Don't have one nor am I looking for one. There is plenty of that going around. Desired or not-- The separation of the "Chaff from the Wheat" is a real effect of Ryans choice, and as far as Ryan building a Kingdom, Isn't that what all of us are building, our own empire, world, kingdom, company, business, corporation, You choose the word, The rest is purely semantics. Anyway, My intention was to share my reason as a Bricks and Mortar Florist that I would be bidding a fond farewell to flowerchat. Not to fuel a fire even though I agree with many of the posts on this thread. So for what it's worth, You Put Your right foot In, You Put Your right Foot Out, You put Your right foot in, And You shake it all about. You do the Hokey Pokey and You turn Yourself about. That's What It's All About......
Take Care, and Best Wishes
mrflowermarket
Do you know any forums that are charging $100 a year? I happen to know one, but that's the only forum I know is charging that much.
Other than FC, I'm a registered member of an aquarium forum which has 13,000 members (4 times bigger than FC). It's a free forum run by a group of mods who occasionally rotate. It's hosted by GoDaddy and I have no idea who is behind it (Whois record is anonymous). Take a look at here: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/ Perhaps you can dig out who is "running" it.
This site is free. It's a tremendous source for fish pet lovers. You said "All I know for certain is that they would far exceed the $285 up-front/$10 a month you suggested." So who is paying for this aquarium forum, if the cost is that expensive? I mean, this is a hobbyist forum and no commercial entities are there.
They sometimes do fund-raising. They report the results, usually a few thousands dollars, which seem to take care of the cost for a year or so. So a few thousand dollars a year can take care of a forum 4-times bigger than FC. If you apply the similar number, it translates into somewhere around $1 / yr / member for FC.
Or let's crank up a bit so that Boss and Cathy and Mikey can have a pack of beer especially after reading brutal sessions like this. Let's say $10 / yr / person, - this kind of figure would have been reasonable to me. In conclusion, my understanding is that, as long as mods are willing to donate their time, a free or almost free, forum is quite possible. In fact most forums are free or almost free, that's the bottom line.
Yes, I know of several, some upwards of $300/month. One closer to $1k per month, but that one doesn't even advertise its existence.
Experts Exchange is another that I've referenced earlier (same annual price as FC), whose primary purpose is to allow paying members to answer questions from other paying members.
You're trying to compare a business forum for professionals that provides actionable info and networking that translate into real world business profits with a forum on how not to kill your fish. FlowerChat is not for hobbyists.
Mark Anderson
Well-Known Member
Fair question!
The answer is yes - absolutely.
I pay to belong to a few different work-related forums. Two of them are related to software development and cost $99 and $499 a year respectively. Another two deal with running a software business - one I belong to at the "Silver" $250 a year level (the gold level costs $950 a year) and the other is $399 a year. I used to belong to one on SEO as well. I think it cost about $350 a year but I dropped it because I was finding more information here on FlowerChat. I personally find FlowerChat to be the best and most useful of all the forums I mentioned.
I pay to belong because they help me run this business and provide a better product for my customers. I would rather not have to spend that money but it is a good investment.
It honestly never occurred to me to try and guess at the costs involved in providing the content - I was only ever interested in what I was getting in return. These forums are not for hobbyists or enthusiasts - they are business sites and I always thought of paid membership as a simple business decision.
Thanks Goldfish.
Flore,
You should be able to post a new thread in almost any forum. One notable exception is this forum where announcements can only be posted by admins.
Which forum are you trying to start a thread in?
duanermb
New Member
That's the smartest business decision I have seen posted in this thread. (Mainly because I made the same one)
For $20. Why leave before giving it a chance?
Nice job Eric!