Announcement Change Is Here!

[Tracy D'Amico]

Tracy we can ask to have our pearls removed I'm guessing.

I know of one person who asked this, and was denied. Unless that person is a liar, and I don't believe that is the case.

I agree the conversation is useless, since I doubt sincerely anything will change at Flowerchat as a result of this thread - decisions are made, accept them or move on.

IMO, the angst comes from feeling like you were part of something, and as part of that, you feel a certain connection to decisions being made, not so much decrees being handed down, without any recourse or input on the decision. When the integrity of the board's success was questioned due to everyone & anyone gaining entry, the vetting process started, at the prompting of the membership, despite the protests of some prominent members and at least one admin. Was it a successful decision? Somewhat. But it was something that was presented to the membership at large.

It sucks to feel like you've contributed to something greater, financially & figuratively, and for it so shift so suddenly to a for profit motive, when it started and has remained till now, a place for the betterment of the industry.

I mean no disrespect... ever.

Nor do I - your pearls, I will miss them greatly.

 

[Victoria]

And I'll miss yours because you are truly one of the good guys.

V

 

[goldfish]

REALLY? Who pays for all of the expensive equipment, both initially, and as it wears out? Repairs? Rent? Insurance? Health clubs aren't cheap, so no - such a set up would never work.

There is no equipment cost. For example, let's say you want to start Flower Chat 2. All you need is the following:

Software (vBulletin): $285 (see http://www.vbulletin.com/)
Hosting account: e.g., goDaddy (http://www.godaddy.com/) sells hosting solution starting from less than $10 a month.

That's pretty much it, really. It's not like you have to purchase a big computer to run a forum like this.

 

[CelebrationGeneration]

There is no equipment cost. For example, let's say you want to start Flower Chat 2. All you need is the following:

Software (vBulletin): $285 (see http://www.vbulletin.com/)
Hosting account: e.g., goDaddy (http://www.godaddy.com/) sells hosting solution starting from less than $10 a month.

That's pretty much it, really. It's not like you have to purchase a big computer to run a forum like this.

I was asking about the ridiculous idea that a gym could work as a free/almost free entity.

 

[CelebrationGeneration]

That's pretty much it, really. It's not like you have to purchase a big computer to run a forum like this.

Do you sell arrangements at cost? Do you pay your employees?

Again, I have to ask.. how can any florist really expect clients to put any sort of value on their time, when they (the florist) expect SO much time donated?

 

[goldfish]

Now, the copyrights/intellectual properties questions - Hate to be a naysayer, but in order for this to stand up, none of you have shown where such things as ideas, opinions, comments, are defined as copyright in a legal situation.

"Ideas and opinions" are not copyrighted. "Posts" are copyrighted. Patenst cover ideas. Opinions are not covered by either, but the actual writing to express that opinion is copyrighted. Copyright covers only "things" such as your writing, picture, music and so on. There have been a numerous debate on who owns the copyright of articles posted in a forum. You can do google search.

 

[aileen_c]

Sorry Goldie, but I totally disagree with you on this money issue. It takes A LOT of time and energy to run a board such as this. This board is small in comparison to a couple I belong to. Ryan has given a lot of his time to run and maintain this board helping it to evolve to meet our needs. That is just RYAN! Not counting the others that help him. The basics you pointed out are low cost but you're not counting time. If you were to add up Ryan's hours on this project x his hourly rate.....you'd see it was a lot of money he was giving up. He's finally putting a fee on it AFTER 7 years of constant work.

 

[goldfish]

I was asking about the ridiculous idea that a gym could work as a free/almost free entity.

Could... if.... So I was pointing out a condition that allows it to happen, rather than arguing that it happens. Sorry to be confusing. And that condition (low overhead and recruitment of volunteeers) are the ones that exist in many forums, which in turn allows these forums to be run free.

 

[goldfish]

Do you sell arrangements at cost? Do you pay your employees?

Again, I have to ask.. how can any florist really expect clients to put any sort of value on their time, when they (the florist) expect SO much time donated?

No, because we have to make profits. Most forums are run under the presumption that no one makes profit out of what is essentially volunteers' work.

 

[mvf]

Blah Blah Blah .... !

How about those of us that have been a part of this community for a while and now we are being "Dissmissed"!?
Cuz that's what it feels like.
Either Pony up or don't let the door hit you....
I understand your reasoning...I get it. To some point I agree. For those of you that are in the trenches so to speak, Flowerchat can be one of your most essential tools. A vital asset to your business (I'm sure you could write off the expense, it IS business advice, education..etc)
But for those of us who WERE in the trenches and can not justify the yearly expense are told "see ya, we don't need you" And I do not see anywhere on your membership classification a mention of retired florists or owners. Do I really need to remind you of our usefulness? Who better to offer advice? But now offering advice comes at a price....one I can not afford.

I guess what this all boils down to is hurt feelings. Yes, I'll admit it, this "change" has hurt my feelings. Maybe I'm not as thick skinned as some of you, maybe I should leave the kitchen if it gets hot. For years we have been told our contributions have meant something and now it seems like only our cash means something.
I wanted to start a thread to say goodbye, a nice spot for those of us who will no longer be a part of Flowerchat, but wished you well.
But come to find out I am no longer "allowed" to post new threads......that's nice

Jennifer

 

[aileen_c]

Blah Blah Blah .... !

How about those of us that have been a part of this community for a while and now we are being "Dissmissed"!?
Cuz that's what it feels like.
Either Pony up or don't let the door hit you....
I understand your reasoning...I get it. To some point I agree. For those of you that are in the trenches so to speak, Flowerchat can be one of your most essential tools. A vital asset to your business (I'm sure you could write off the expense, it IS business advice, education..etc)
But for those of us who WERE in the trenches and can not justify the yearly expense are told "see ya, we don't need you" And I do not see anywhere on your membership classification a mention of retired florists or owners. Do I really need to remind you of our usefulness? Who better to offer advice? But now offering advice comes at a price....one I can not afford.

I guess what this all boils down to is hurt feelings. Yes, I'll admit it, this "change" has hurt my feelings. Maybe I'm not as thick skinned as some of you, maybe I should leave the kitchen if it gets hot. For years we have been told our contributions have meant something and now it seems like only our cash means something.
I wanted to start a thread to say goodbye, a nice spot for those of us who will no longer be a part of Flowerchat, but wished you well.
But come to find out I am no longer "allowed" to post new threads......that's nice

Jennifer

Jennifer/mvf,
She really does have a solid point though on that. Hmmm....

 

[lori042499]

OK, here is my 2 cents....

I understand Ryan needing to charge, I think it will weed out many lurkers, takers and those not seriously involved in this board, this industry and the like...I also believe that the charge will take out people running Microshops....like myself, Goldie, Tracy, Paula and countless others... I do think that the info I have gleaned from here is worth 100.00 a year, but having that money to spend is a whole nother ball of wax...

The last 2 years of 4 owning my own biz, I have had to hurdle over many things...I lost my Dad, my financier and credit line at a most crucial point in the building process, we went into recession, I went into a small hole, I took over many new money obligations with my Dad's house and my mom's finances all the while trying to come up with working capital to run my business, i started a new business instead of going out in my spar time and getting a minimum wage job to bring in some extra money.....I read and article the other day about florists and if you are still open you should feel good about your abilities because many did not make it, and I do....I think I have a good business sense and I think that my gut feelings on where and how I spend my money are pretty good most of the time...I have been torn on many items this last year on where to drop and where to stay steady and FC will go on that list...I have needed sneakers for 6 months and haven't got them because of money, I have not gone outfor a night out in a year because of money...I have a list of needs and wants that grows by the day and list of must pays that outweighs that by a whole lot....I have had to lapse on electric, telephone and liability insurance this last year many times, I cannot see paying 100.00 in place of anyone of those...I am looking at a rose industry trying to make up for lower than expected sales and making up lies about freezes just in time for Valentine's day....as we all are...

I am to say the least on the fence....I do believe that we can do great things, what I am not sure about is that there is enough organization in this group to put the 100.00 each to good use, especially without any kind of plan....I know that we have something like 4000 members but only maybe 30 really active give and takers, that means that Ryan may get 3000.00 and that is probably what he should get for his time, energy and money out of pocket for this project....but will leave not much else for "bettering of the industry".....This leaves me concerned with the projects going forward, if I do muster up 100.00 for the year in review, what are the chances I will be able to be involved in the projects going forward, those are probably going to have to be big bucke with a handful of people on board...Sorry but I think you are going to look at a mass exodus, because in reality the 100.00 is mostly going to come down to the decision do I need to pay for friends and a place to go... I know that sounds harsh but the reality is that for many...at TF shows we can't get many florists to pay 25.00 and they are getting a dang meal out of it...

 

[Mark Anderson]

There is no equipment cost. For example, let's say you want to start Flower Chat 2. All you need is the following:

Software (vBulletin): $285 (see http://www.vbulletin.com/)
Hosting account: e.g., goDaddy (http://www.godaddy.com/) sells hosting solution starting from less than $10 a month.

That's pretty much it, really. It's not like you have to purchase a big computer to run a forum like this.

Hey Goldfish,

With all due respect it seems to me that the costs of providing the service are irrelevant to the consumer. The consumer makes their purchasing decision based on the value of the service being offered - not what it costs the vendor.

If the vendor is charging "too much" and enjoying incredible profits then competitors will move in. They will easily be able to provide the same service at a lower price without losing money and disgruntled customers will switch over. This is what I understand to be capitalism/free enterprise. The good news is that it means this "problem" will solve itself - if the price is truly unreasonable a number of new and better options will soon become available to florists. The value of FlowerChat will be established very quickly.

Even though I truly believe that the costs associated with running this forum are irrelevant to the discussion I need to say that your estimates are simply not accurate. You can run a bulletin board off a shared server quite inexpensively but performance suffers. FlowerChat uses a very costly and very expensive dedicated server to provide the best possible experience for the members.

And while I don't know the exact specs I'm certain that a $10 GoDaddy account would not provide the sustained bandwidth or data transfer used by this large and busy forum. It gets very expensive very quickly.

And finally you have the opportunity cost. Ryan has a lot of posts so he is a contributor like anyone else. But he also has to do a ton of work behind the scenes - Aileen did a great job on this.

It's easy to make estimates about someone else's costs but I'm surprised to see it happening here. I have seen countless posts from florists that were outraged when someone questioned the price of flowers. This is just like the news stories we see in early February where a reporter tell consumers Valentines roses are a ripoff without any true understanding of the costs.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Thank you for all your comments..it makes FlowerChat a better place to be!
Things that I have learned, they are quite extraordinarily simple...
1) nothing is free, God's love still comes with a collection plate, IF you choose to...
2) in times of trouble, and despair, the leaders LEAD, and the followers 'choose" whether to be "lead"...
3) discussion AND resolution is MOST pronounced, when the true entrepreneurs are vested....
4) when you have MUCH to gain, and little to lose, participation is a privilege, most often with a price tag...
5) people that TRULY care, come forward, people that "sort of" care, move sideways, or find a fence to sit on....
6) someone else "COULD" do the work, with some mystical justification of "start up" costs....
7) those that volunteer, do so, for the greater need, those that DO NOT volunteer, have ALL the answers....
8) PROFIT is a very dirty word, which means that paying ones financial burdens, is a dirty thing to do....
9) value is in the eyes of the beholder, what's worth nothing to some, is a gemstone for those that "see"....
10)this thread has become VERY disrespectful of Ryan's efforts to be straight and candid,and honest,and a business person (wow,how many times do THOSE words combine)
11)Bloomz left his intellectual "property" behind, guess the landlord felt that Bloomz might be back to "claim" it, as opposed to threatening it's "property rights"....a big hmmmm.
12)Lastly, Ryan has asked you for $100.00 bux each, and provided ways to begin the "new" FlowerChat.....wow, Sandie and I donated $1,000.00 to build a new health clinic, in the town closest to our cottage, and we DON'T even "live" there....
13)are we REALLY that "comfortable" with same old, same old, do as always was done??.....please think carefully when you answer, there is an abundance of fantastic floral minds on this board that are anxious for your response.....

 

[sfox]

Mr. Fox, if you want to make changes to your business, do you ask the masses for input? Just wondering.

V

Since you asked, YES I DO. I do what's called market research and if you don't know what that is, it is asking the masses what they expect from your business. Maybe it's been some time since you took Marketing 101 but here's a link for you...........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_research

 

[avenuegardensflorist]

change is tough to do.

...

yes, change is tough to do. If I decide to pay $100/yr
I might as well go for the strider website also. Many
questions to ask about changing websites, just hesitant
to initiate change. Same goes w/ accting package and
same goes w/ wire services.

Would love to see FC evolve into a true F2F wire service
vehicle. The Real Florist needs a Real Florist wire service
provider that is easy and trustworthy and affordable. And
one that DOES NOT COMPETE w/ our business.

yes, sitting on the fence is easy. Hard to make
Real Decisions. Thanks to all who have made info
available thru these years.

I do wish bloomz was not pissed off. he sure made
the reading more fun.

 

[steve]

I do not think we need another wire service after all there are a couple small want to be ones out there right now that have never really been able to get any traction. I see the need more in a national web site with real florist brand products that the customers punches in the zip code that they wish to send to and it would bring up the member in that area with no need for a middle man to be handling the money and the accounting etc.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

...


Would love to see FC evolve into a true F2F wire service
vehicle. The Real Florist needs a Real Florist wire service
provider that is easy and trustworthy and affordable. And
one that DOES NOT COMPETE w/ our business."

This is exactly what I hope for the NEW Flower Chat. As I posted before in this thread, Ryan has the platform, Mark has the best domain name "RealFlorist.com".
Would love to see them run with this. We have for the most part concluded that the WS's are hurting our industry, this is the perfect opportunity to take it back.

Assuming that a new F2F service might emerge from this change, it would be/might be one of the additional cost ideas that have been alluded to. Hope so.


There you go Steve, good idea, or better explanation of what I said!

To remind folks where I stand, I paid my $100.00 for this ride.

 

[duanermb]

Copyright:

I did some research last night about copyright of forums, (Because I hadn't seen any real hard facts here) and yes there is much debate, but some things were clear from reading about it on many forums and blogs.

- By posting on the forum, yes, you have a copyright to the material. BUT, you are also entering into an agreement with the media outlet, ie. the forum manager to have license to your work. Meaning the forum operator can do with it what they want. Because of the nature of a forum, it is an implied agreement and doesn't require ToU statements to make it so. Ryan has provided a time-frame for free viewing that will allow you to have access to all of your works of art, so that you can print them off or do whatever you want with them, but his right to use them moving forward doesn't change.

Secondly:

I am truly astounded by the lack of vision displayed by many regarding the fee. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with what may come in the future, but everything to do with what is happening right now in the industry and many of our businesses.

Unless you are the #1 business owner that ever lived and have had training at Harvard Business, and spent 10 years studying with the top designers in the world, FC is the place you all need to be; Especially if you are struggling with finances right now. Find the $20 and go monthly, we all know what happens at holiday time.

Do I personally like to pay for this membership, no.
Do I agree in principal with the change, yes.
Do I think that many here are being childish and not giving the creators of the board and the admins the credit they deserve, yes.
Do I think the board will be better off, yes.
Do I think that the board will survive and flourish, contrary to some of the more useless posts above, yes.

The few that are complaining are a small voice that don't realize that the other boards died for a reason. This board is defined by the decisions of it's owner and the admins. It is they who have made this place what it is. Yes, we all have great ideas and posts, but, it is the way the board is handled that truly makes it stand out from many others I have seen.

Lastly, I am relinquishing the copyright of all of my highly prized posts to Strider, and submitting my $100 as a small token of my gratitude for putting up with my BS for 2 years.

 

[greatflowerlady]

It has really been fun on here and I can say I have gotten to know some GREAT people, learned a few tricks of the trade and shared some too. But that where I bow out. To many other places where there is a community of flower people I.E. J's (UBLOOM) where no one feels left out . No back stabbing, no I am better then you, know debating are you a real "florist" or not. This is to much. Ryan good luck and I hope you can "weed" out the rest and keep the pros on board. To all I wish you luck much great fortune, and happiness. You will find me on the other side...... Signing off~ Tracy~